GOP attempts to BURN FREEDOM for political gain

[TheDude]

I just wish they'd pass a law that made it legal to beat the :q:q:q:q out of someone burning a flag. That would make things a lot easier.

So you want a law that allows someone to 'beat the crap' out of someone else excercising their right to freedom of speech/expresion? Doesn't that sound a bit Draconian to you? Maybe a little reminescent of say the Nazi regime or Stalin Russia?

So long First Amendment, we didn't need you anyways.

 

[fossten]

Sorry, did you say something worth listening too? All heard was "Waaaaa...Waaaaa...Waaaaa [stomp little feet] Waaaaa... Waaaaa... [stomp little feet] Waaaaa..."

That person HAS the right to burn a flag, simple as that and you need to learn to deal with it. Duh. It'd be different if they went into my house, stole my flag and tried to burn my personal property. As typical, you resort to childish and moronic insults when something doesn't go your way. Grow up Mr. Intellectual Honesty.

Just try burning the Flag in my presence, Mr. Traitor-monger, and watch what I do. We'll see whose rights get exercised.

 

[Calabrio]

So you want a law that allows someone to 'beat the crap' out of someone else excercising their right to freedom of speech/expresion? Doesn't that sound a bit Draconian to you? Maybe a little reminescent of say the Nazi regime or Stalin Russia?

So long First Amendment, we didn't need you anyways.

...if you really want to take that little sarcastic comment seriously, o.k. I'll play along.

Yeah. I'm all for it. That's how I'd like to express myself. If the purpose is to enflame the public, generate a reaction, and to stimulate a response. Fine, I'll indulge them and I'll express myself by beating the crap out of the burner. See, everyone wins that way.

 

[TheDude]

Just try burning the Flag in my presence, Mr. Traitor-monger, and watch what I do. We'll see whose rights get exercised.

You're physically threatening me on a forum? Lol...

Funny, you call me a traitor yet you spit on others legal rights; in essence, wouldn't that make you a traitor to what America stands for?

 

[TheDude]

...if you really want to take that little sarcastic comment seriously, o.k. I'll play along.

Yeah. I'm all for it. That's how I'd like to express myself. If the purpose is to enflame the public, generate a reaction, and to stimulate a response. Fine, I'll indulge them and I'll express myself by beating the crap out of the burner. See, everyone wins that way.

So what you're saying is, people have the right to exercise the First Amendment as long as it's done in your own private version of it... That sounds logical to you?

Also, everybody doesn't win that way, the flag burner has the right to burn a flag, but you beating that person would be aggravated assault.

 

[MAC1]

So let me ask an open question to all you libs. Johnny, Deville, all the rest of you, even Freefaller:

If you saw somebody burning the flag and you were the nearest person, would you do what Rick Monday did? Would you stop them? Why or why not?

I'll answer this question even though I don't consider myself to be a Lib. I would hate to beat the crap out of a person who is following the law by burning the flag to dispose of it correctly. OOPS. Then again, I also wouldn't want a criminal record for assaulting someone over flag burning either. Free speech rights don't overrule existing laws against committing criminal acts. Let's not act like the whacko nuts that blow up abortion clinics. By the way, I'm pro-Life.

 

[TheDude]

I'll answer this question even though I don't consider myself to be a Lib. I would hate to beat the crap out of a person who is following the law by burning the flag to dispose of it correctly. OOPS. Then again, I also wouldn't want a criminal record for assaulting someone over flag burning either. Free speech rights don't overrule existing laws against committing criminal acts. Let's not act like the whacko nuts that blow up abortion clinics. By the way, I'm pro-Life.

So basically you wouldn't stop a flag burner because they have a legal right to 'flag burn' correct?

Better take cover, the wrath of Fossten is upon you!

 

[FreeFaller]

So let me ask an open question to all you libs. Johnny, Deville, all the rest of you, even Freefaller:

If you saw somebody burning the flag and you were the nearest person, would you do what Rick Monday did? Would you stop them? Why or why not?

I think you just called me a liberal...I'll let that one slide for now

Do you have any idea how many times I have been protested? How many times I have been called "baby killer"? Do you know how many people have spit in my face because of my service? How many times I've seen the flag burned? I would do what I always have done and will continue to do. Stand up straight and continue my watch. Show my strength in my discipline...knowing when action is required and when it is not. Because the love I have for my country does not reside in symbols or words but within each beat of my heart...and no amount of chanting, slurs, demonstrations or burning of flags will ever change that.

Even though I joke about it, I leave the childish actions of reprisal to children...us adults have a country to protect.

 

[TheDude]

I think you just called me a liberal...I'll let that one slide for now

Do you have any idea how many times I have been protested? How many times I have been called "baby killer"? Do you know how many people have spit in my face because of my service? How many times I've seen the flag burned? I would do what I always have done and will continue to do. Stand up straight and continue my watch. Show my strength in my discipline...knowing when action is required and when it is not. Because the love I have for my country does not reside in symbols or words but within each beat of my heart...and no amount of chanting, slurs, demonstrations or burning of flags will ever change that.

Even though I joke about it, I leave the childish actions of reprisal to children...us adults have a country to protect.

Well put...

 

[FreeFaller]

Some might ask how a military member could have such a stance. I implore those who ask that to read the following...


"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

 

[Calabrio]

Also, everybody doesn't win that way, the flag burner has the right to burn a flag, but you beating that person would be aggravated assault.

That's the beauty of it. If that law were passed, it wouldn't be aggrevated assault anymore.

Everyone wins.

 

[TheDude]

That's the beauty of it. If that law were passed, it wouldn't be aggrevated assault anymore.

Everyone wins.

Very ture, but then we'd have a law restricting freedom of speech/expression; hence 'So long First Amendment'... Would you really want that?

 

[fossten]

You're physically threatening me on a forum? Lol...

Funny, you call me a traitor yet you spit on others legal rights; in essence, wouldn't that make you a traitor to what America stands for?

Ummm...trying to find where I physically threatened you...

Nope. Not there.

What's the matter, you paranoid?

 

[fossten]

I think you just called me a liberal...I'll let that one slide for now

Do you have any idea how many times I have been protested? How many times I have been called "baby killer"? Do you know how many people have spit in my face because of my service? How many times I've seen the flag burned? I would do what I always have done and will continue to do. Stand up straight and continue my watch. Show my strength in my discipline...knowing when action is required and when it is not. Because the love I have for my country does not reside in symbols or words but within each beat of my heart...and no amount of chanting, slurs, demonstrations or burning of flags will ever change that.

Even though I joke about it, I leave the childish actions of reprisal to children...us adults have a country to protect.

I didn't call you a liberal, Freefaller...I said "even" you, remember?

Nobody would mistake you for a liberal. And as a former servicemember, I can relate to you more than you think. I understand your position in uniform.

But I'm not in the service anymore, and if I saw someone burning a flag, I'd snatch it.

Guaranteed.

 

[fossten]

Very ture, but then we'd have a law restricting freedom of speech/expression; hence 'So long First Amendment'... Would you really want that?

It is breathtaking to be in the presence of such ignorance.

We already have laws like that. You ever hear of McCain-Feingold? Political correctness? The ACLU? Indecency laws? Restriction of any prayer or mention of God in schools? What about yelling 'fire' in a theater? Or 'bomb' or 'gun' on a plane? Or threatening the President? What about giving out nuclear launch codes in a newspaper article? (The NYT wishes they could get access to those, they'd do it in a heartbeat)

Freedom of speech does not apply in all situations. It is not a stretch to protect our flag from America-hating losers who would hide under some elixir (not found) in the First Amendment which the activist Supreme Court somehow 'discovered'.

Go read the First Amendment before you try to argue it.

*owned*

 

[TheDude]

Ummm...trying to find where I physically threatened you...

Nope. Not there.

What's the matter, you paranoid?

'Originally Posted by fossten
Just try burning the Flag in my presence, Mr. Traitor-monger, and watch what I do. We'll see whose rights get exercised.'

The bold is your thinly veiled threat, but if you meant something else, whatever.

And no, I'm not paranoid, I actually found it hilarious that someone that lives seven states east of me would use threats.

Another funny fact, you call me a p*ssy and a chickensh!t because I wouldn't stop a flag burner, yet you don't use the same language with others that wouldn't stop a flag burner either.

Let me ask you a question, if the KKK or Aryan National Front marched through your town chanting anti-American slander which is prevalent at their rallies (i.e. “N#$$@#@ out of America”, “Jews burn in hell”, “white power”, “American is for whites only”, “race traders” etc.). Basically desecrating what America stands for, the same as you see flag burning. Would you stop them? Why or why not?

 

[MAC1]

That's the beauty of it. If that law were passed, it wouldn't be aggrevated assault anymore.

Everyone wins.

Even if the amendment was ratified and states' made laws restricting flag burning it would still be a criminal offense to commit battery against someone you caught burning the flag. The flag burner would be subject to the punishment prescribed by state law, most likely a fine for the first offense. The law wouldn't say: Anyone caught burning the American flag shall be subject to woop ass by Calabrio. But then again, I'm sure you know that it's just that you are very passionate about your position.

 

[TheDude]

It is breathtaking to be in the presence of such ignorance.

We already have laws like that. You ever hear of McCain-Feingold? Political correctness? The ACLU? Indecency laws? Restriction of any prayer or mention of God in schools? What about yelling 'fire' in a theater? Or 'bomb' or 'gun' on a plane? Or threatening the President? What about giving out nuclear launch codes in a newspaper article? (The NYT wishes they could get access to those, they'd do it in a heartbeat)

Freedom of speech does not apply in all situations. It is not a stretch to protect our flag from America-hating losers who would hide under some elixir (not found) in the First Amendment which the activist Supreme Court somehow 'discovered'.

Go read the First Amendment before you try to argue it.


owned*

Very true, but flag burning IS protected under the First Amendment(key word there ’IS’). Until a law passes that changes that, you're going to have to remain content to sucking on your thumb and just deal with it. So stick that 'owned' in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[biglou71]

Very ture, but then we'd have a law restricting freedom of speech/expression; hence 'So long First Amendment'... Would you really want that?

To which I will again reply with this:

I find it highly ironic that the only form of hate speach the left will defend is hate speach against thier own country. Any other form of hate speach gets no protections under the 1st amendment according to the left becasue it offends people. Well burning the American flag offends people too. And I would guess it offends more than 2% of the population (which is the current estimate of the percentage of homosexuals in America).

This, like Abortion, should be a states rights issue. But the pipe dream of the founding fathers of a weak Federal government went up in smoke in 1861.

 

[Calabrio]

The law wouldn't say: Anyone caught burning the American flag shall be subject to woop ass by Calabrio. But then again, I'm sure you know that it's just that you are very passionate about your position.

Perhaps we can make that a constitutional ammendment.

Amendment XXVIII: An asswhooping for flag burning. You're free to burn it, but you'd better keep your guard up.

 

[Calabrio]

Here are some guys in dirty pajamas burning the flag.

 

[fossten]

'Originally Posted by fossten
Just try burning the Flag in my presence, Mr. Traitor-monger, and watch what I do. We'll see whose rights get exercised.'

The bold is your thinly veiled threat, but if you meant something else, whatever.

And no, I'm not paranoid, I actually found it hilarious that someone that lives seven states east of me would use threats.

Another funny fact, you call me a p*ssy and a chickensh!t because I wouldn't stop a flag burner, yet you don't use the same language with others that wouldn't stop a flag burner either.

Let me ask you a question, if the KKK or Aryan National Front marched through your town chanting anti-American slander which is prevalent at their rallies (i.e. “N#$$@#@ out of America”, “Jews burn in hell”, “white power”, “American is for whites only”, “race traders” etc.). Basically desecrating what America stands for, the same as you see flag burning. Would you stop them? Why or why not?

I might protest against them, if I didn't have to work. That's exercising my freedom of speech also.

I don't advocate violence, your assertions to the contrary. I simply said watch what I do. You're projecting your own predilections onto me, which is your problem, not mine.

 

[fossten]

Very true, but flag burning IS protected under the First Amendment(key word there ’IS’). Until a law passes that changes that, you're going to have to remain content to sucking on your thumb and just deal with it. So stick that 'owned' in your pipe and smoke it.

So after having said all that, why would you begrudge the Congress for attempting to change the law?

 

[pepperman]

The History of Old Glory

Some things should be Protected from desecration. [URL="http://www.usflag.org/history/oldglorystory.html"]OLd Glory[/URL]

I respect others opinions about this issue, but to me the flag is more than just cloth it is a symbol of this country and it should be protected.

 

[MAC1]

Here are some guys in dirty pajamas burning the flag.

The Ass set himself on fire. They are the radical whackjobs that like to blow themselves up to make a point. They aren’t Americans! Show me a picture where Americans are burning the flag, which is a lot more difficult to find since the overwhelming majority of Americans will not burn the flag even in protest. However, that doesn’t mean the majority of Americans want the First Amendment chilled either. I think at this point there is a good balance between Americans honoring the flag and refusing to burn it even in protest and those who find it unacceptable to burn the flag period. We don’t need any laws protecting the flag because 99.9% of Americans simply will not desecrate the flag.