GOP attempts to BURN FREEDOM for political gain

95DevilleNS said:
[5th-grade retort] Ooohhh, I'm glad to hear I take up even minor precious moments of your cerebral functions... [whiny voice] But, I am with 100% certainty that you cannot point out my spelling errors with closed eyes, you liar [snif] .



Promise? Because so far this week you have called me a pacifict p*ssy, chickensh!t, ignorant, paranoid, un-patriotic and un-American [boo-hoo]. I await your retorts with bated breath.
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I take back the paranoid comment.
 
95DevilleNS said:
1) Fossten has copy writes to calling people in here 'un-American', be sure to pay him royalties.
2) I believe that burning a flag will not burn away what it stands for, simple as that.
3) That's the beauty of free speech and freedom, American's are allowed to dissent against the country. If we were to beat and jail someone who talked against the country we'd be no better than Stalin Russia, Nazi Germany, Saddam Iraq..... You accept some 'bad' for the greater 'good'.
4) Its 'Never look a gifted horse in the mouth' I believe.
5) Demonstrative flag burning's happen in America too (see Calabrio's post), not often, but sadly they do (unless done for the right reasons)
6) I would not join in on a flag burning, I think it's pathetic to do so, see my previous post on this thread.
7) Stab whomever you like and enjoy your prison sentence if you're caught.
8) Like Fossten, you'll just have to be content with sucking on your thumb until a law passes that say's 'Flag burning is NOT covered under the 1st Amendment.' Sorry.
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1) Fossten would be rich cause there are so many of you unamerican freedom haters around.

2) Burning the flag does corrode what it stands for. If you burn a contract, you have destroyed what it stands for.
Contract--An agreement between two or more parties, especially one that is written and enforceable by law.
The flag is a symbol of said contract. It displays what the bloodshed of generations past attained. Burning the flag is a vain showing of disrepect for the sacrifices made so that todays american can be free. Its like striping a lincoln of its licoln badging. Is it still a lincoln? Well, yes it is. But it has lost something that defines it in the automotive world. That lincoln badge represents quality, luxury, and a taste in cars above all others. Take away that badge, and all you have is a car just like any other. Do we still know its a lincoln, well hell yes we do, but it has lost its essence without them

3) There is a certain amout of bad that must be accepted to go along with the good, but the left gives off enough bad to more than cover for the entire country themselves. There are also certain things that cannot be seen as acceptable in the bad. Burning the flag is something that is not, was not, and will not ever be accpeted

4) Both look and kick are accepted versions of that saying. Look means to never question a gift, kick means to never defy that gift.

5) I am well aware of the fact that demostrative burnings happen in america. Thats the whole point of this post. My example of flags being burned outside of the country was to show that they do it in direct disrespect to our country.

6) You find it pathetic yet support it. I bet you support f@ggotism as well?

7) You obviously (as I already knew) have no sense of patriotism or humor

8) No, I don't have to be content with it. Fortunately, I live in a state that still loves and honors this country and we don't put up with that hippy f@ggot mentality that you have a right to do such. We still kick the chit out of people who do such flaming ignorant things. Its only yankee and western states that do such dumb chit, all blue states most obviously.
 
JohnnyBz00LS said:
Wrongo, as soon as you lay hands on someone, you are no longer "excersizing your right to free speech", you are commiting assault, a crime, to which you surrender certain other rights, like freedom from jail. Using "hate speech" during the comission of that crime elevates it, as it then belies the motivation behind it. Theres a BIG difference between "hate speech" and "hate crime. Free speech is protected as long as it doesn't get physical.
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I believe what he is trying to infer is that you commie bastards believe it to be ok to slap america in the face, but wrong to call someone a f@ggot or n1gger. Problem is, that those words have defined meanings. A f@ggot is just that. You can call'em queers, homo's, f@gs, whatever, the words define what they are. And for the people out here who still don't know, the definition of n1gger is: Used as a disparaging term for a member of any socially, economically, or politically deprived group of people. It doesn't have to be a black person because it relates to any group of people. The actual used definition is an ignorant stupid person. It has become associated with blacks becaused it was used mainly towards them for so long and they fell under that definition at that time.
 
...Passions should be expected to run hot in a debate forum. However, it's been getting increasingly acidic around here recently. There's no reason to name-names, but everyone needs to take a step back.

Attempt to NOT personalize everything.
And do our best to maintain civility.

If courtesy isn't enough of a motivator, then remember that when things get to hostile, thoughtful debate becomes impossible and this section of the forum will just die out. And there will be nowhere left to argue around here.
 
stang99x said:
1) Fossten would be rich cause there are so many of you unamerican freedom haters around.
2) Burning the flag does corrode what it stands for. If you burn a contract, you have destroyed what it stands for. Contract[/B]--An agreement between two or more parties, especially one that is written and enforceable by law.
The flag is a symbol of said contract. It displays what the bloodshed of generations past attained. Burning the flag is a vain showing of disrepect for the sacrifices made so that todays american can be free. Its like striping a lincoln of its licoln badging. Is it still a lincoln? Well, yes it is. But it has lost something that defines it in the automotive world. That lincoln badge represents quality, luxury, and a taste in cars above all others. Take away that badge, and all you have is a car just like any other. Do we still know its a lincoln, well hell yes we do, but it has lost its essence without them
3) There is a certain amout of bad that must be accepted to go along with the good, but the left gives off enough bad to more than cover for the entire country themselves. There are also certain things that cannot be seen as acceptable in the bad. Burning the flag is something that is not, was not, and will not ever be accpeted
4) Both look and kick are accepted versions of that saying. Look means to never question a gift, kick means to never defy that gift.
5) I am well aware of the fact that demostrative burnings happen in america. Thats the whole point of this post. My example of flags being burned outside of the country was to show that they do it in direct disrespect to our country
6) You find it pathetic yet support it. I bet you support f@ggotism as well?
7) You obviously (as I already knew) have no sense of patriotism or humor
8) No, I don't have to be content with it. Fortunately, I live in a state that still loves and honors this country and we don't put up with that hippy f@ggot mentality that you have a right to do such. We still kick the chit out of people who do such flaming ignorant things. Its only yankee and western states that do such dumb chit, all blue states most obviously.
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1) 'They' must be French :rolleyes:
2) My opinion, What American stands for is too strong to be diminished by burning cloth
3) You don't have to like it, just accept it, there are many laws that I don't like either.
4) Ok (non-sarcastictly)
5) Yes, flag burnings are done to incite emotions, I just don't buy into it, kind of like name calling.
6) F@ggotism??? (Please explain what this means) Lol... Man, you're just one angry dude. But if you're asking if I support another man's right to love another man; I support it because it's none of my business what two other men willfully do with each other, nor do I care enough to think about it. I wouldn't want someone telling me how I could or or not love my wife so I won't do it to others.
7) If you said something funny, I love a good laugh and whatever you say MR. SUPER-PERFECT-PATRIOT.
8) Like I said, kick, punch and stab whomever you like. Just be man enough to accept the legal consequences. Here are some facts I found the differentiate the Red and Blue states

Red states have a divorce rate 27% higher than the liberal Blue states, the per capita rate of violent crime in Red states is 49 per 100,000 higher than in Blue states, the top 5 states with the highest rates of alcohol abuse are Red states, and the per capita rate of gonorrhea in Red states was 41 per 100,000 higher than in the Blue states. Time to unshelf the antibiotics for our "ethical," "God-fearing" conservative friends with their "traditional family values."

Considering the above, I am glad to live in a Blue "f@ggotism' state.

Oh, wasn't it the yankee states that were fighting for a better America and luckily won the war?
 
Calabrio said:
...Passions should be expected to run hot in a debate forum. However, it's been getting increasingly acidic around here recently. There's no reason to name-names, but everyone needs to take a step back.

Attempt to NOT personalize everything.
And do our best to maintain civility.

If courtesy isn't enough of a motivator, then remember that when things get to hostile, thoughtful debate becomes impossible and this section of the forum will just die out. And there will be nowhere left to argue around here.
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I agree, but everyone doesn't need to take a step back, it's the typical few that constantly resort to petty personal insults.
 
fossten said:
I take back the paranoid comment.
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Lol, with each passing thread you become increasingly more childish. It's funny to watch in a morbid way.

One thing you really need to understand and I told you this about 8 monts ago, you cannot upset me with petty insults or ridiculous accusations. Calling me a chickensh!t pacifist p*ssy does nothing. I sincerely mean that.
 
95DevilleNS said:
Red states have a divorce rate 27% higher than the liberal Blue states, the per capita rate of violent crime in Red states is 49 per 100,000 higher than in Blue states, the top 5 states with the highest rates of alcohol abuse are Red states, and the per capita rate of gonorrhea in Red states was 41 per 100,000 higher than in the Blue states. Time to unshelf the antibiotics for our "ethical," "God-fearing" conservative friends with their "traditional family values."
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Cite your source or be discredited. How do we know you didn't just make that up?
 
Does anybody feel I need to do a whole lot of editing out the personal attack stuff and let the guys play? It is up to you guys. For me, I'd prefer more ideological fighting over the personal stuff but unless the forum is heavily moderated till the point of losing the 'fun' factor, I am vasilating on what to do.
 
MonsterMark said:
Does anybody feel I need to do a whole lot of editing out the personal attack stuff and let the guys play? It is up to you guys. For me, I'd prefer more ideological fighting over the personal stuff but unless the forum is heavily moderated till the point of losing the 'fun' factor, I am vasilating on what to do.
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The problem is, when the conversation becomes extremely course, the more civil voices are discouraged from posting. The result, only the people with existing grudges or passions remain, and the tone intensifies, perpetuating the situation.

This thread is a fine example. On principle, there is no reason why we should have to constitutionally ban the descreation of the flag. On principle, there is every reason why we should protect the flag. Left or right, you can easily be on either side of this issue. But it's getting unnecessarily nasty in here.

Maybe deleting specific instults wouldn't be so bad. Just leave you're initials in the bottom of edited posts.
 
I'd be happy to edit as long aas people understand that I do not play favorites and always try to be fair to everyone.
 
Actually, the type of back and forth jabbing between fossten and 95DevilleNS cracks me up.
 
MonsterMark said:
Does anybody feel I need to do a whole lot of editing out the personal attack stuff and let the guys play? It is up to you guys. For me, I'd prefer more ideological fighting over the personal stuff but unless the forum is heavily moderated till the point of losing the 'fun' factor, I am vasilating on what to do.
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Na, let it stay like it is. If people what to show their true colors then so be it.
 
MonsterMark said:
I'd be happy to edit as long aas people understand that I do not play favorites and always try to be fair to everyone.
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I do not think you play favorites in general, but you know which person's you'd have to edit out more than others and then you'd get the 'why me!' crying as you did before. So let it stand, if someone wants to make petty personal insults instead of attacking the oppositions debate points; that's their mistake to make and they only make an ass on themselves and I am happy to point of their clown-shoes retorts if directed at me.
 
fossten said:
Cite your source or be discredited. How do we know you didn't just make that up?
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I'll take it back, I did some further research and as far as divorce rates go it's a flop, some argue that Red states are indeed higher but only because Blue states have lower marriage rates. Take that how you will. As far as murder goes though, the southern states have it higher than anywhere else same goes for STD's.

And no, I do not make anything up and try to pass it off as fact, you're a hoot Fossten.
 
stang99x said:
I believe what he is trying to infer is that you commie bastards believe it to be ok to slap america in the face, but wrong to call someone a f@ggot or n1gger.
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Gee, what a surprise. As typical you resort to personal attacks when you lose the debate. That's what is so pathetic about the conservative mentality, no ability to debate issues without getting personal. Weak..... and revealing.

You also don't have the ability to discern the difference between symbolic speech and physical criminal action. Let me break it down for you, I'll assume you can perform simple "math": "Hate speech" + "crime" = "Hate crime".

If someone was to set fire to a building by initiating the the fire with a burning American flag, then there would (should) be no issue about labeling that criminal act of arson a "hate crime".
 
JohnnyBz00LS said:
Let me break it down for you, I'll assume you can perform simple "math": "Hate speech" + "crime" = "Hate crime".
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:bsflag:

Damn you libs are mind readers now too?


So once again, from one word a person says you can see what their true motivation is? Hell, a lot of people cruse others out while they are fighting, I dont see why ONE word should change it from simple assault to a hate crime. What a load of liberal panzy crap.
 
biglou71 said:
I dont see why ONE word should change it from simple assault to a hate crime. What a load of liberal panzy crap.
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Yet you want to make it a crime to non-violently express free speech? What a bunch of double-standard, hypocritical load of conservative pussy crap.
 
biglou71 said:
So once again, from one word a person says you can see what their true motivation is? Hell, a lot of people cruse others out while they are fighting,
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If your "true motivation" for beating someone's ass is very clear (self defense of yourself or your family for example, someone stole your property and you were attempting to recover it for another example) and you called them names during the assault, you might be able to make a case that the assault was not a hate-motivated crime. But you'd be treading on thin ice and you better have a good lawyer.
 
fossten said:
Welcome Johnnybz00LS, advocate of the new Thought Police.
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In NO WAY does hate crime legislation attempt to "police" your thoughts. It is the point of time when those thoughts cross the line into ACTION where hate crime legislation kicks in.

Did I hear somewhere that you were studying to be a lawyer??? :bowrofl: :runaway: :facesjump :bowrofl: :runaway: :facesjump

Good luck!
 
Back on topic, question for all those for laws to prevent flag burning:

How do you primarily christian-driven, bible-beater folks rationalize elevating a SYMBOL (the flag) to a higher status than the thing for which it stands for (freedom)? Doesn't this go against the spirit of the 1st and 2nd commandments? God gets pissed off when you worship idols or gods other than himself.
 
JohnnyBz00LS said:
How do you primarily christian-driven, bible-beater folks rationalize elevating a SYMBOL (the flag) to a higher status than the thing for which it stands for (freedom)? Doesn't this go against the spirit of the 1st and 2nd commandments? God gets pissed off when you worship idols or gods other than himself.
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I have a question for you Johnny.

Do you want to draw the line anywhere in human behavior or is it fine to do whatever feels good under the guise of freedom of speech and expression?

Hell, why have ANY laws whatsoever. Every man, woman and child for themselves, eh.
 
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