Happy holidays to everyone !!!

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Hebrews 11:verses 4 thru 40) King David is still awaiting resurrection by Jesus(the one he called Lord in the Psalm 110:1) into a paradise Earth where he will live forever. Hebrews 11th chapter shows NONE of those many righteous ones mentioned had yet received the fulfillment of the promise, and WOULD not be made perfect apart from the spirit anointed Christians of the 1st century.
So Yahweh made the earth subject to and was speaking to our Lord Jesus,His son. don-ohio :)^)
 
Don,

Why skip the first 4 verses of Hebrews,,, and quote the rest??? Maybe because verse 2 would prove what you are saying... WRONG!!!

Hebrews 11:2

New International Version
This is what the ancients were commended for.

New Living Translation
Through their faith, the people in days of old earned a good reputation.

English Standard Version
For by it the people of old received their commendation.

Berean Study Bible
This is why the ancients were commended.

Berean Literal Bible
For in this the ancients were commended.

New American Standard Bible
For by it the men of old gained approval.

King James Bible
For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For our ancestors won God's approval by it.

International Standard Version
By faith our ancestors won approval.

NET Bible
For by it the people of old received God's commendation.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And by this there was a testimony concerning the ancients.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
God accepted our ancestors because of their faith.

You ALSO ignore what happened the moment Jesus died on the cross.

Matthew 27:51-52

51At that moment the curtain in the sanctuary of the Temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, rocks split apart, 52and tombs opened. The bodies of many godly men and women who had died were raised from the dead.

So David is already with Jesus... along with many other people that lived during Old Testament times. People from the Old Testament were saved by their faith... but had to wait until Jesus died on the cross. That's why the Bible says in Hebrews 11:40....

New International Version
since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

New Living Translation
For God had something better in mind for us, so that they would not reach perfection without us.

English Standard Version
since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect.

Berean Study Bible
God had planned something better for us, so that together with us they would be made perfect.

Berean Literal Bible
God having planned something better for us, so that not apart from us, they should be made perfect.

New American Standard Bible
because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.

King James Bible
God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
since God had provided something better for us, so that they would not be made perfect without us.

International Standard Version
since God had planned something better for us, so that they would not be perfected without us.

NET Bible
For God had provided something better for us, so that they would be made perfect together with us.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Because God provided for our benefit that they would not be made perfect without us.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
God planned to give us something very special so that we would gain eternal life with them.

So once again Don... you have been TAUGHT WRONG!!! David was resurrected THE MOMENT Jesus died on the cross.
 
Nah,baby,Nah! David will be resurrected AFTER ARMAGEDDON. As will all worthy of a resurrection. Read the Psalms. Ps.37:10,11 will tell you david had an earthly hope. A righteous earth which was what God originated but Adam and Eve lost awaits David,Elijah,Abel,etc......ALl those who have lost out on a paradise earth. Heaven is for the RULERS of mankind,which will be Kings and Priests.
These are selected by the Father, not the son. Remember Jesus' answer to disciples that asked to sit at his right hand? Not his to give...only the Father,his God.
The number of these is clearly stated and has been decided by God to be 144,000 to be in heaven as Christ's brothers and rule.
David as all other Hebrews understood that the Earth would be restored to paradise. God's original purpose shall not be thwarted by Satan.

don-ohio :)^)
 
The book of Revelation is an allegory. As such, those who choose to treat the subject matter as reality will, without question, find themselves far astray. As a story of a fight between good and evil it has some relevance. Those who cherry-pick for fact do everyone a massive disservice.

KS
 
Those who pooh-pooh Revelation do so at their peril,Cammer .
The book of Revelation is written in signs.....says so right at the outset. BUT, everything in it has meaning; God does NOT ramble on. The Kings and priests appointed as Christ's brothers in heaven will be ruling over mankind as they will attain to perfection as was intended thru Adam.
That is what the 144000 Kings and priests will accomplish. Helping bring earthly mankind to perfection.
No need for Kings and priests if they have NO ONE to rule over is there? The earth will be filled with perfect,happy subjects. don-ohio :)^)
 
Don... Cammer is right. AND... it's not called the book of ARMAGEDDON,,, it's called the book of Revelation for a reason, (which means "a revealing"). There is much more to the book than what is at the surface. You are the one who has been pooh-poohing all over the Bible by misquoting Scripture and twisting what it says.

AGAIN,,, you ignore what Matthew 27:51-52 says...

51At that moment the curtain in the sanctuary of the Temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, rocks split apart, 52and tombs opened. The bodies of many godly men and women who had died were raised from the dead.

AND,,, you leave out Hebrews 11:2 when you mention the rest of Hebrews.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
God accepted our ancestors because of their faith.

ALL of the Old testament people that had faith in GOD,,, are already resurrected, (THE MOMENT JESUS DIED ON THE CROSS)... and this INCLUDES David.

On top of that,,, Hebrews 4:1-3, (1st half) confirms what I am saying

1God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it. 2For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God. 3For only we who believe can enter his rest....

So you are ignoring part of what you suggested reading. Again Don... you are only arguing and debating with Jesus at this point.

Maybe you should take heed at your own suggested reading.

1 God’s promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it.

CHRIST is the ONLY King!!! EVERYONE else will be a subject to HIM!
 
THe following is found HERE:

http://www.gotquestions.org/144000.html

Question: "Who are the 144,000?"

Answer: The book of Revelation has always presented the interpreter with challenges. The book is steeped in vivid imagery and symbolism which people have interpreted differently depending on their preconceptions of the book as a whole. There are four main interpretive approaches to the book of Revelation: 1) preterist (which sees all or most of the events in Revelation as having already occurred by the end of the 1st century); 2) historicist (which sees Revelation as a survey of church history from apostolic times to the present); 3) idealist (which sees Revelation as a depiction of the struggle between good and evil); 4) futurist (which sees Revelation as prophecy of events to come). Of the four, only the futurist approach interprets Revelation in the same grammatical-historical method as the rest of Scripture. It is also a better fit with Revelation’s own claim to be prophecy (Revelation 1:3; 22:7, 10, 18, 19).

So the answer to the question “who are the 144,000?” will depend on which interpretive approach you take to the book of Revelation. With the exception of the futurist approach, all of the other approaches interpret the 144,000 symbolically, as representative of the church and the number 144,000 being symbolic of the totality—i.e., the complete number—of the church. Yet when taken at face value: “Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel” (Revelation 7:4), nothing in the passage leads to interpreting the 144,000 as anything but a literal number of Jews—12,000 taken from every tribe of the “sons of Israel.” The New Testament offers no clear cut text replacing Israel with the church.

These Jews are “sealed,” which means they have the special protection of God from all of the divine judgments and from the Antichrist to perform their mission during the tribulation period (see Revelation 6:17, in which people will wonder who can stand from the wrath to come). The tribulation period is a future seven-year period of time in which God will enact divine judgment against those who reject Him and will complete His plan of salvation for the nation of Israel. All of this is according to God’s revelation to the prophet Daniel (Daniel 9:24–27). The 144,000 Jews are a sort of “first fruits” (Revelation 14:4) of a redeemed Israel which has been previously prophesied (Zechariah 12:10; Romans 11:25–27), and their mission seems to be to evangelize the post-rapture world and proclaim the gospel during the tribulation period. As a result of their ministry, millions—“a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language” (Revelation 7:9)—will come to faith in Christ.

Much of the confusion regarding the 144,000 is a result of the false doctrine of the Jehovah's Witnesses. The Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that 144,000 is a limit to the number of people who will reign with Christ in heaven and spend eternity with God. The 144,000 have what the Jehovah’s Witnesses call the heavenly hope. Those who are not among the 144,000 will enjoy what they call the earthly hope—a paradise on earth ruled by Christ and the 144,000. Clearly, we can see that Jehovah’s Witness teaching sets up a caste society in the afterlife with a ruling class (the 144,000) and those who are ruled. The Bible teaches no such “dual class” doctrine. It is true that according to Revelation 20:4 there will be people ruling in the millennium with Christ. These people will be comprised of the church (believers in Jesus Christ), Old Testament saints (believers who died before Christ’s first advent), and tribulation saints (those who accept Christ during the tribulation). Yet the Bible places no numerical limit on this group of people. Furthermore, the millennium is different from the eternal state, which will take place at the completion of the millennial period. At that time, God will dwell with us in the New Jerusalem. He will be our God and we will be His people (Revelation 21:3). The inheritance promised to us in Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14) will become ours, and we will all be co-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17).
 
John 10:16 Two separate flocks,one shepherd. Earthly hope class and Kings and Priests class. To have 144,000 rulers,you will have to have an Earth full of subjects.
I want to gain what Adam lost.......EVERLASTING life on a cleansed Earth under God's rulership.Not hard to figure out where we'd be if Adam had stayed faithful. don-ohio :)^)
 
Umm... Don???

Revelation doesn't say that that the earth would be restored to paradise. It says there will be a new heaven and a new earth.

Revelation 21:1

1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the old heaven and the old earth had disappeared. And the sea was also gone.
 
No Don. The two flocks are Jew and Gentile. NOT heavenly and earthly. Again... you have been mislead by the faith you follow.

1st Timothy 4:1

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
 
Who's gonna rule and who's gonna be ruled,04? Yer surely not believing the UN-Christian Jews are gonna rule Christians are you? don-ohio :)^)
 
EVERY HUMAN WILL BE SUBJECT TO CHRIST... and all men will be equal under HIM. You are already forgetting that the people raised from the dead the moment Jesus died on the cross... were Old Testament Jews. As the Bible says,,, they were saved by their faith... and this was before Jesus was born.

Faith in THE ONE TRUE GOD,,, has always been what saved people... and as Hebrews says,,, the Belivers of the Old Testament had to wait until something better came along. I.E. ,,, they had to wait for Jesus' death on the cross.
 
Psalms 37:29 says that the RIGHTEOUS will possess the earth and live FOREVER upon it. So you have two classes.........an earthly class of innumerable subjects,and the heavenly class of 144,000 Kings and priests chosen by Yahweh for his son's associates,who will judge the world.(I Cor. 6:2)
So you have most of the righteous that survive Armageddon, living on the earth,along with billions of resurrected people who will attain perfection. They will be ruled by Christ and his selected heavenly brothers,the 144,000.
don-ohio :)^)
 
Don.. not every Psalm is futuristc,,, or about Jesus or Heaven. You quote Psalm 37:29... but just before that in Psalm 37:25,,, David says the following:

25Once I was young, and now I am old. Yet I have never seen the godly abandoned or their children begging for bread.

Don,,, Psalm 37, (in contex), is about the wicked and the fact that they will not prosper. What David is saying in Psalm 37:29... is that the Godly will prosper. Not anything relating to the 144,000.

You quote 1 Corinthians 6:2 to further prove your point,,, but take it out of context from what the auther is actually talking about. The author is talking about settling disputes between Christians... when he says:

2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases?

Now,,, if everyone who has faith in GOD, (past, present, and future),,, is being addressed by the author in 1st Corinthians... then I am positive that this verse is talking about more than 144,000. So again... you are using a verse out of context.

Now, if the book of Revelation is completely literal as you believe... then that means we will see a dragon sweep 1/3 of the stars out of the sky with it's tail,,, and chase after a woman ... a rider on a pale horse killing people ... a beast with 7 heads and ten horns coming out of the sea ... and other bizzar things.

However... Revelation does give some breif clarity at certain points,,, about all of the METAPHOR it uses. Take a look at Revelation 17:15-18

15Then the angel said to me, “The waters where the prostitute is ruling represent masses of people of every nation and language. 16The scarlet beast and his ten horns all hate the prostitute. They will strip her naked, eat her flesh, and burn her remains with fire. 17For God has put a plan into their minds, a plan that will carry out his purposes. They will agree to give their authority to the scarlet beast, and so the words of God will be fulfilled. 18And this woman you saw in your vision represents the great city that rules over the kings of the world.”

Could this great city be Babylon or Rome in the past,,, or the conglomeration of the UN in present day??? Or even the United States??? We wont know any of this for sure,,, until we met our Maker.

144,000 may be a literal number,,, but if you read Revelation... they were selected specifically to worship GOD in a higher manner than the rest. Not rule over people.

Don, you are being lied to,,, and the NWT has twisted your mind.

1st Timothy 4:1

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
 
QUOTE 04: `Now, if the book of Revelation is completely literal as you believe... then that means we will see a dragon sweep 1/3 of the stars out of the sky with it's tail,,, and chase after a woman ... a rider on a pale horse killing people ... a beast with 7 heads and ten horns coming out of the sea ... and other bizzar things.'`

`You are very mistaken again,04. I do not believe everything in Revelation to be literal.....not even close to literal. I just said it was presented in signs, reading at the very first part of the book.
Babylon the Great is the world empire of false religion,which has been in place since the Tower of Babel after the flood of Noah's day.
Daniel 5:22 shows Babylon's king Belshazzar was a false religious worshipper of idols.
ANCIENT Babylonian concepts are and practices are found in religions WORLDWIDE. Trinity- There were TRIADS of gods,and among their divinities were those representing various forces of nature....(S.H.Hooke 1963 pp14-40).
The Platonic Trinity,a mere arrangement of older trinities appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three HYPOSTASES or DIVINE persons taught by the Christian churches...the Greek philosopher Plato's conception of the DIVINE TRINITY ....can be found in ALL the ancient PAGAN religions. NOUVEAU Dictionnaire Universel (Paris 1865-1870) edited by M. Lachatre,vol.2,page 1467.
So we have a kingdom called Christendom, along with ALL other false religions, that have dominated the Kings of the earth,according to Rev.17 description of Babylon the Great.
So YES,we do know what Babylon the Great is. don-ohio :)^)
 
Don, you're daisy picking. When it comes to your personal salvation, 'works' is, for all practical purposes, meaningless.

And yammering at people who have tuned out is a complete waste of time.

Dragons have a purpose, for sure. It's to be a character in such as 'The Hobbit'.

KS
 
QUOTE Cammer:``And yammering at people who have tuned out is a complete waste of time. `

Doesn't look like you're tuned out.LOL! 04 said I believed Revelation was totally literal......I just answered him,along with some info. to enlighten anyone who cares about WHO Babylon the Great is.
don-ohio :)^)
 
Honestly this thread needs to be either dropped/moved or locked.

This is an Automotive forum, not a Jesus Christ bible thumping forum, getting tired of seeing this thread at the top everyday with this nonsense garbage back and forth with Don.

Yes, others can just simply ignore it but you's could also take your Jesus debate with Don to a more appropriate forum or dedicated section of this site.

Surely you've come to the conclusion that arguing/debating with Mr. Don can go on and on and on ... yielding little or next to no results.


Take it to the "Politics & Current Events" forum,

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?21-Politics-amp-Current-Events


~ There is already some active ramblings in the "God is Only a Theory" thread going on.



I'm requesting to lock/move this thread.
 
BigRigLS said:
Honestly this thread needs to be either dropped/moved or locked.

This is an Automotive forum, not a Jesus Christ bible thumping forum, getting tired of seeing this thread at the top everyday with this nonsense garbage back and forth with Don.

Yes, others can just simply ignore it but you's could also take your Jesus debate with Don to a more appropriate forum or dedicated section of this site.

Surely you've come to the conclusion that arguing/debating with Mr. Don can go on and on and on ... yielding little or next to no results.


Take it to the "Politics & Current Events" forum,

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?21-Politics-amp-Current-Events


~ There is already some active ramblings in the "God is Only a Theory" thread going on.



I'm requesting to lock/move this thread.
Click to expand...

There's always the 'don't-read-it-if-you're-not-interested-in-the-subject option also'.:rolleyes:

KS
 
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