Happy holidays to everyone !!!

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Quote LS4:

"Brother you are wasting your time.... "

LS4... you're right. I'm done! I just kept pushing the issue... because I didn't want people misunderstanding and believing Don's falsehoods. As you said: Time to shake the dust off my sandals.
 
I quoted the Bible,04..............people that are reading this thread may not be as stupid as you think. Shake the dust of Bible truth off your sandals,04. When Jesus said he was God's son, he didn't lie. Voice from Heaven at John's Baptism of Jesus...........` This is my son,the beloved,whom I have approved. LISTEN to him.' don-ohio :)^)
 
Don, I really appreciate what you are trying to do. But you come off as a self-righteous know-all and your preachy tone makes your words fall on unwilling ears.

Don't try to talk down to us---some of us are fairly smart in our own right and that approach won't get anywhere with us.

You'd get much further if you were attempting to have a discussion instead of a tent-meeting.

KS
 
I simply tell you what Jesus said. It's all written down. I am a `good for nothing slave' that can only repeat the truth from the Bible. Yet people will not hear Jesus's words that he was the SON of God. That is up to them. don-ohio :)^)
 
G-Rell

The problem at hand... is that we have a conflict between 2 opposing beliefs/faiths. The biggest problem, (if you study Don's faith)... is that Don believes he is EARNING his way into Heaven by preaching what he thinks is the proper tanslation of the Bible.

As most of us know... we cannot EARN our way into Heaven. Scripture says faith and salvation are gifts... freely given:

Ephesians 2:1-10

By Grace Through Faith

1And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.


So if Faith AND Salvation are gifts... can they be rejected??? If a person decides, (or is told), that they have to EARN the gift... is it really a gift???

So many versions of "religion" teach that we have to EARN acceptance from God... when the Truth of Scripture says God has already accepted us... as long as we believe in Him and put our trust in Him. That's the oxymoron many people don't understand... and in the process reject God and Who He actually IS. It has been... from the beginning,,, and always will be... OUR CHOICE.

For once in many posts,,, Don has actually spoken the truth when he said: "....That is up to them." But actually... because of what he believes... Don means it in a different way from how you may have taken it. His faith believes that "working out his salvation",,, actually means "working" out his salvation through deeds and "witnessing". That is why it seems like he is preaching "AT" us.

Not picking on you "G"... so please don't feel that I am doing that. Yours just happened to be the last post.

Sorry folks... I know I said I was done,,, but as long as Don is going to continue to accuse and spread misinterpretations... I will still stand up for what is Good and Right,,, and True.
 
There you go again Don... putting words in my mouth. You say in post#327:
"..............people that are reading this thread may not be as stupid as you think."

I NEVER accused ANYONE of being stupid. Actually,,, I have seen many smart comments and questions in this thread... posted by others.

What I said in post #325... is:

"Maybe some people won't know your faith well enough,,, to see that you have been talking in circles... but some will."
So now you are resorting to false accusations... in an attempt to discredit others,,, and once again trying to prove yourself right. keep digging the hole Don.

You say also in post #327:
"Shake the dust of Bible truth off your sandals,04."

Don... I'm not shaking off Bible truth,,, but I am shaking off what you have been taught,,, and what you have come to believe in. But here you go again,,, twisting more Scripture... from the way LS4 and I meant it.

Matthew 10:5-15 (emphasis on verse 14)

Jesus Sends Out the Twelve Apostles

5These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, 6but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7And proclaim as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers,c cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay. 9Acquire no gold or silver or copper for your belts, 10no bag for your journey, or two tunicsd or sandals or a staff, for the laborer deserves his food. 11And whatever town or village you enter, find out who is worthy in it and stay there until you depart. 12As you enter the house, greet it. 13And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it, but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town. 15Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.

Luke 9:1-6

Jesus Sends Out the Twelve Apostles

1And he called the twelve together and gave them power and authority over all demons and to cure diseases, 2and he sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to heal. 3And he said to them, “Take nothing for your journey, no staff, nor bag, nor bread, nor money; and do not have two tunics.a 4And whatever house you enter, stay there, and from there depart. 5And wherever they do not receive you, when you leave that town shake off the dust from your feet as a testimony against them.” 6And they departed and went through the villages, preaching the gospel and healing everywhere.

It's all on http://biblehub.com/ or www.biblegateway.com/ ... but you won't find the New World Translation listed on either of them... or many other Bible application websites.
 
Been a good month... so I have some extra spending cash. Gonna go to the local "show" this weekend... and see if I can't do my best to continue to,,, "keep and arm bears". :-D
 
Food for thought Don:

Matthew 23:1-15

Seven Woes to the Scribes and Pharisees

1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2“The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat, 3so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice. 4They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear,a and lay them on people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. 5They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, 6and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues 7and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbib by others. 8But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.c 9And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. 11The greatest among you shall be your servant. 12Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

13“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.d 15Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of helle as yourselves.


Matthew 22:41-45

Whose Son Is the Christ?

41Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question, 42saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “The son of David.” 43He said to them, “How is it then that David, in the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying,

44“‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at my right hand,
until I put your enemies under your feet”’?

45If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son?” 46And no one was able to answer him a word, nor from that day did anyone dare to ask him any more questions.

Go ahead Don,,, select the parts of this that you want to focus on... but miss the bigger picture of what you refuse to see.
 
04_Sport_LS said:
Sorry LS4...

I know what I said... but this is me.

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/christia/frog.gif
Click to expand...

No worries brother! I used to keep engaging this type but learned that they can't stray from their talking points. How many times was Don asked to produce a verse specifically stating that Yeshua was created? He keeps ignoring that questionbecause he can't. I even tried to explain that the term "son" doesn't necessarily mean biological, it can also mean positional. And the correct term for "first born" is preeminent.

wpc6d5f778_06.jpg

wpc6d5f778_06.jpg
 
Quote 04: `Go ahead Don,,, select the parts of this that you want to focus on... '

Okay,04...........let's try Matt 23:9 and 10 for starters. Hey,you asked for it! LOL!
Then let's try Matt. 22:41-45 .................. Jesus is showing them he is God's son,which he's been saying all along. They tried to say he was King David's son. Then Jesus quoted Psalms 110:1 in which God says to his son, the lesser Lord, ``Sit at my right hand,until I make your enemies a stool for your feet.' David acknowledged Jesus as `my Lord' here.
So Yahweh, indicated in Psalms 110:1 by the tetragrammaton(which is removed here as it is almost 7000 times in the KJ bible,and substituted with Capital LORD),YHWH, says to the lesser Lord, Jesus, to sit at his right hand until HE, Yahweh,made his (the lesser Lord) enemies as a footrest.
What's so hard about seeing the son's relationship to his Creator/Father Yahweh? don-ohio :)^)
 
And,,, you went exactly were I knew you were going to go with this... but you missed the point, (because of what you have been taught). It's good though that you picked up on Psalm 110:1.

Now... let's look at Matthew 1:17

All those listed above include fourteen generations from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the Babylonian exile, and fourteen from the Babylonian exile to the Messiah.



So this means that King David was 27 times Jesus', (in human form), earthly great grandfather. Correct??? Now lets break down the meaning of Psalm 110:1.

You are somewhat correct in the meaning of the first use of word "LORD",,, being the Tetragrammaton (YHWH). However... the second use of the word "Lord"... is NOT about Jesus. The second word "Lord" is a translation of the Hebrew word לַאדֹנִי; (pronounced ladonee). The correct and only translation of ladonee is “to my master” or “to my lord.” The Hebrew word adonee never refers to God anywhere in the Bible. It is used only to address a person, never God. That is to say, God, the Creator of the universe, is never called adonee in the Bible. There are many words reserved for God in the Bible; adonee, however, is not one of them.

So... then the proper translation of Psalm 110:1 is "God said to David", Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies a stool for your feet. (I'll get back to this shortly).

God was making David a promise of the kingdom he would have,,, as long as he followed God. How many nations became a "footstool" to David during the years he reigned as king??? How prosperous did David become,,, because of the promise to him, (by God), during his reign???

So now... let's go back to Matthew 22:45.

45If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son?” 46And no one was able to answer him a word, nor from that day did anyone dare to ask him any more questions.

Don,,, by JESUS' OWN definition,,, the second "lord" in Psalm 110:1... is referring to King David!!! So that means that Jesus is referencing HIMSELF as the first "LORD" in Psalm 110:1. ONCE AGAIN DON... JESUS IS CALLING HIMSELF... the Tetragrammaton... GOD, YAWEH, JEHOVAH!!!

You can say "NO",,, but that is EXACTLY what Jesus is doing!!! Once again Don,,, you missed the point of Scripture in true context. Don't feel bad though,,, because the pharisees missed it to,,, wit6h GOD, (in human form), standing right in front of them.

Thankfully,,, all of us today... get to see and understand this with 20/20 hindsight.

LS4... am I still on track here,,, or am I starting to stray???
 
Quote 04:`You are somewhat correct in the meaning of the first use of word "LORD",,, being the Tetragrammaton (YHWH). However... the second use of the word "Lord"... is NOT about Jesus. The second word "Lord" is a translation of the Hebrew word לַאדֹנִי; (pronounced ladonee). The correct and only translation of ladonee is “to my master” or “to my lord.” The Hebrew word adonee never refers to God anywhere in the Bible. It is used only to address a person, never God. That is to say, God, the Creator of the universe, is never called adonee in the Bible. There are many words reserved for God in the Bible; adonee, however, is not one of them.'

You are VERY incorrect here,04. The whole point of Jesus' pointing out that DAVID calls him Lord(remember the question...who is the Christ? Whose son is he?) shows the Jewish leaders that Jesus,the lesser Lord,was addressed as a Lord by Yahweh,the Almighty.
You can't believe David is talking to himself here? Nah............not after Jesus clarified that David called the second person,`my Lord' ?
don-ohio :)^)
 
And... once again you are changing your story. You just said above in post #338:

"...YHWH, says to the lesser Lord, Jesus, to sit at his right hand..."

Now you are saying that Jesus is correcting David for calling him "LORD" in Psalm 110:1??? What a flip-flop on your part!!! You really need to make up your mind what you believe!!! Now you are trying to combine the Old and New Testament,,, into a scrambled, blurred mess. The American Indians would call you someone who speaks with a "forked tongue". There's only one being described like that in the Bible!!!

You are right about one thing you said: "the lesser Lord,was addressed as a Lord by Yahweh,the Almighty".

The lesser lord was David,,, but was being addressed by Jesus in Psalm 110:1... as Jesus confirmed in Matthew 22:45.

45If then David calls him (me) Lord, how is he (am I) his son?”



Twenty Eight Generations after King David... Jesus, (GOD in the flesh), is acknowledging that King David knew who Jesus was, (in pre-existing/preeminent form), before Jesus became flesh. Dont forget John 8:58:

"Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!"

Only God is Omnipresent and Omnipotent and Omniscient. Jesus did NOT say what he said in John 8:58 because he was an angel created by God. Jesus said what he said in Romans 8:58,,, because he IS GOD.

You completlely missed the point, (or are twisting it to match your beliefs), of Jesus quoting Psalm 110:1.

So to accuse me of saying that David was talking to himself is another false accusation on your part.

I guess it's ok,,, according to the faith you follow,,, to lie and twist what people say... and to change parts of the Bible to your own meaning... as long as you win a convert. I guess,,, according to the faith you follow... that as long as you "work out your salvation"... the ends justify the means. The guy I knew years ago that was part of your faith, (before he died),,, would never stoop to the means you have!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will say this again:

Matthew 23:13-15

13“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. 15Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.
 
Far too often, an entire theology is created by taking a verse from 'here' and another part of a verse from over 'there' and doing a construction based on this skip-picking.

The story is told of a guy trying to find guidance in the Bible. He flipped open The Book and stuck in a pin. He found---"And Judas went out and hanged himself." That was kinda scary so he tried again. He found---"Go thou and do likewise." Thoroughly upset he tried once more. And this time he found---"What thou doest, do quickly."

You can make almost anything out of the Bible if you try hard enough.

KS
 
cammerfe said:
Far too often, an entire theology is created by taking a verse from 'here' and another part of a verse from over 'there' and doing a construction based on this skip-picking.

The story is told of a guy trying to find guidance in the Bible. He flipped open The Book and stuck in a pin. He found---"And Judas went out and hanged himself." That was kinda scary so he tried again. He found---"Go thou and do likewise." Thoroughly upset he tried once more. And this time he found---"What thou doest, do quickly."

You can make almost anything out of the Bible if you try hard enough.

KS
Click to expand...



LOL !!! you are SO right !!!!

once they change their cop's and plugs they will be fine :)
 
04_Sport_LS said:
And,,, you went exactly were I knew you were going to go with this... but you missed the point, (because of what you have been taught). It's good though that you picked up on Psalm 110:1.

Now... let's look at Matthew 1:17

All those listed above include fourteen generations from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the Babylonian exile, and fourteen from the Babylonian exile to the Messiah.



So this means that King David was 27 times Jesus', (in human form), earthly great grandfather. Correct??? Now lets break down the meaning of Psalm 110:1.

You are somewhat correct in the meaning of the first use of word "LORD",,, being the Tetragrammaton (YHWH). However... the second use of the word "Lord"... is NOT about Jesus. The second word "Lord" is a translation of the Hebrew word לַאדֹנִי; (pronounced ladonee). The correct and only translation of ladonee is “to my master” or “to my lord.” The Hebrew word adonee never refers to God anywhere in the Bible. It is used only to address a person, never God. That is to say, God, the Creator of the universe, is never called adonee in the Bible. There are many words reserved for God in the Bible; adonee, however, is not one of them.

So... then the proper translation of Psalm 110:1 is "God said to David", Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies a stool for your feet. (I'll get back to this shortly).

God was making David a promise of the kingdom he would have,,, as long as he followed God. How many nations became a "footstool" to David during the years he reigned as king??? How prosperous did David become,,, because of the promise to him, (by God), during his reign???

So now... let's go back to Matthew 22:45.

45If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son?” 46And no one was able to answer him a word, nor from that day did anyone dare to ask him any more questions.

Don,,, by JESUS' OWN definition,,, the second "lord" in Psalm 110:1... is referring to King David!!! So that means that Jesus is referencing HIMSELF as the first "LORD" in Psalm 110:1. ONCE AGAIN DON... JESUS IS CALLING HIMSELF... the Tetragrammaton... GOD, YAWEH, JEHOVAH!!!

You can say "NO",,, but that is EXACTLY what Jesus is doing!!! Once again Don,,, you missed the point of Scripture in true context. Don't feel bad though,,, because the pharisees missed it to,,, wit6h GOD, (in human form), standing right in front of them.

Thankfully,,, all of us today... get to see and understand this with 20/20 hindsight.

LS4... am I still on track here,,, or am I starting to stray???
Click to expand...


I think you're off a little. Psalm 110:1-7 is about the Messiah's kingdom... Here are a few commentaries...

I don't even read Don's posts...
 
Quote 04: `Now you are saying that Jesus is correcting David for calling him "LORD" in Psalm 110:1???'

I never said Jesus corrected David. David got it right thru inspiration. RE-read my post...........you are getting it backwards. David is NOT a Lord but is speaking of Jesus, calling him Lord. Like I said, if you're doing this on purpose, people will figure it out. They can go back and read EXACTLY what I said. don-ohio :)^)
 
LS4,,,

I was a little concernd that what I said was incorrect... so after service today I talked to my pastor. He agreed with me that the second use of the word "Lord" in Psalm110:1... is the word adonee,,, and is referring to King David. My pastor also agreed that the first use of the word "LORD" in Psalm 110:1 is referring to Jesus... and added that Jesus is referencing to HIMSELF in Matthew 22:41-45,,, whe HE quotes Psalm 110:1

It was a bit of a relief to find out I wasn't off base on this. As it happens,,, I talked to a couple other members before I talked to the pastor,,, and they had the same interpretation as you. While many times in Psalms,,, things imply the Messiah's kindom... in this instance it has to do with Jesus' (GOD'S) promise to David.
 
Quote by Cammer:

"Far too often, an entire theology is created by taking a verse from 'here' and another part of a verse from over 'there' and doing a construction based on this skip-picking.

The story is told of a guy trying to find guidance in the Bible. He flipped open The Book and stuck in a pin. He found---"And Judas went out and hanged himself." That was kinda scary so he tried again. He found---"Go thou and do likewise." Thoroughly upset he tried once more. And this time he found---"What thou doest, do quickly."

You can make almost anything out of the Bible if you try hard enough.

KS "

Cammer... I have heard that story a few times,,, and I agree with you 100% on what you said. I do my best not to "skip-Pick" like you have mentioned. I try to tie it all together in proper context. Hopefully I have been doing a good job of that.
 
Oh Doooon...

You are doing it again. However,,, since your faith teaches something completely different, (like Jesus was/is an Angel), than mainstream Christianity... you would automatically think I have it backwards.
r
Maybe I did misunderstand what you said above... but you have changed your mind and contradicted youself so many times previously... it's hard to know exactly what you are saying anymore. Maybe using more complete explanation of what you are trying to convey,,, would help reduce misinterpretations.

To quote myself:

"Now you are saying that Jesus is correcting David for calling him "LORD" in Psalm 110:1???"

Notice the question marks at the end Don??? I was asking you if that is what you were saying!!! So I didn't do anything on purpose.
 
LS4,

I checked your link,,, and read some of it... but it's getting too late. I did however go to the right collum,,, and scrolled down to and click on this:

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/psalms/110-1.htm

It's Interlinear,,, so even Don might like it. Remember to read from right to left,,, in blocks. In it you will find the word la·ḏō·nî, which is pronounced "ladonee" which means an earthly human lord or master. Thus the second "Lord" in Psalm 110:1 is actually David... and the first "LORD" in Psalm 110:1 is actually GOD/Jesus.

But then again Don will disagree that the first "LORD" is Jesus,,, because according to his beliefs... an Angel can't be the Tetragrammaton.
 
04_Sport_LS said:
Quote by Cammer:

"Far too often, an entire theology is created by taking a verse from 'here' and another part of a verse from over 'there' and doing a construction based on this skip-picking.

The story is told of a guy trying to find guidance in the Bible. He flipped open The Book and stuck in a pin. He found---"And Judas went out and hanged himself." That was kinda scary so he tried again. He found---"Go thou and do likewise." Thoroughly upset he tried once more. And this time he found---"What thou doest, do quickly."

You can make almost anything out of the Bible if you try hard enough.

KS "

Cammer... I have heard that story a few times,,, and I agree with you 100% on what you said. I do my best not to "skip-Pick" like you have mentioned. I try to tie it all together in proper context. Hopefully I have been doing a good job of that.
Click to expand...

I was, most emphatically, not speaking about your posting. I learned, a long time ago, that the only way to find out what the Bible says, is to take a good concordance or three and study EVERYTHING that's referenced. And, in many instances, go to someone who reads the passages in the original language and can offer an exegesis. And that's where you START.

KS
 
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