Happy holidays to everyone !!!

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Don,

Go to this link:

http://toledocalvary.org/~toledoca/spoileralert.php

Scroll down to the sermon titled "Hell is",,, then move the time bar at the bottom of the video to 45:30... and listen to what the pastor says about the potter and the clay at roughly timeline 48:20

This sermon is NOT directed at you,,, but I think he makes a good point about God getting his hands dirty.
 
The Jewish leaders were mad with envy and rage towards Jesus. They even plotted to kill Jesus AND Lazarus after Jesus resurrected him. So don't try and say the Jewish leaders understood anything about God's purpose(THEY actually thought Jesus was going to rid them of their enemies). They were mistaken and rejected for missing the message of the Christ when he appeared. Their `house is abandoned to them',as Jesus said. don-ohio :)^)
 
Don, going back to post #292... you say:

"So Jesus was not simply a good man, but he was the ONLY person that could give his life as a corresponding ranson,as a perfect human as Adam was before he sinned.
THIS is a key point...........it helps a person understand the logic God used. Jesus COULD have started a race of perfect humans if he had chosen to stay on earth,marry and raise a family. But he gave up this possibility for us to be healed in the future.

Not attacking you,,, but I definitely DO NOT agree with what you are saying here.

First of all,,, there never was... and never will be A PERFECT HUMAN. Adam NEVER was perfect, because he had a "sin nature" inside of him. The REASON Jesus was/is perfect... is because He was GOD manifested in the flesh.

I said in a post recently,,, that Not even the Angels are perfect. 1/3 rebelled against God... and perfect creatures wouldn't do that. So it would seem that even Angels can have a "sin nature". Evidently Angels have "free will" also... just like humans.

So... that being said,,, If you believe that Jesus was an Angel before He became human... then you are putting your faith in an imperfect creature. The ONLY way Jesus was/is/can be perfect... is because HE IS GOD!!!

As far as Jesus getting married and having kids,,, and creating a perfect human race??? That thought process is COMPLETELY flawed. All you would have at that point would be halfbreed GOD/human creatures that would still have a "sin nature".

The only "key point" to this,,, is not the logic that God used... but the logic you and the faith you have been taught,,, are using.
 
Quote DON:

"The Jewish leaders were mad with envy and rage towards Jesus. They even plotted to kill Jesus AND Lazarus after Jesus resurrected him. So don't try and say the Jewish leaders understood anything about God's purpose(THEY actually thought Jesus was going to rid them of their enemies). They were mistaken and rejected for missing the message of the Christ when he appeared. Their `house is abandoned to them',as Jesus said. don-ohio :)^) "

I NEVER said the Jewish leaders understood God's plan... SO DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH I DIDN'T SAY. The stuff posted in post #300 is not anything I said... but is copied and pasted from the link provided in the same post. I was just quoting someone that knows alot more about the Bible than either of us!!!

OMG Don... The flippin Jewish leaders wanted to kill Jesus for calling himself God!!! They wanted to kill him for blasphemy,,, and also because they were afraid of Him and his growing popularity... because of all of the miracles He was performing. On top of that,,, they never thought Jesus was going to rid them of their enemies... but that was their misunderstanding of who they thought the Messiah was going to be.

They weren't rejected for missing the message of Christ... THEY WERE REJECTED FOR REJECTING CHRIST HIMSLEF!!!!

They Jewish leaders were so wrapped up in the rules, laws and traditions,,, that they couldn't even understand or recognize who Christ was.
 
Adam and Eve WERE perfect.created by God along with his son,Jesus. When Adam sinned, perfection was lost until Jesus bought back our right to live in Paradise. don-ohio :)^)
 
Romans 5:12 `Thru one man sin entered the world,and death thru sin, so death spread to all men..' Adam was created perfect, and would have NEVER died, nor his offspring,but he sinned against God before he had children.
We are imperfect because Adam had sinned and then started our genealogies.
God's purpose was an earth full of perfect undying humankind,but Satan got Adam to obey his wife Eve.
This is not a fairy tale. Soon mankind will fill the earth in perfect health and life. That was God's original purpose and He will complete it.
don-ohio :)^)
 
OMG Don!!! If sin entered the world through Adam,,, then hewas not perfect... so get off it will ya! We are not imperfect because of what Adam did!!! The story of Adam is to point out that we ALL are fallen as humans,,, and ALL have a "sin nature" inside of us!

That was not God's purpose for us... for us to be perfect,,, because God knew darn well from day one that we were going to screw up!!! Adam is not dead now anyway. He may have screwed up,,, but he had a realtionship with God... so All who die and go to Heaven because of their Faith,,, will see Adam one day.

The Bible says that there will be a new heavan and a new earth... but is't not going to be the one you have been taught to believe in.
 
Quote Don:

"Adam and Eve WERE perfect.created by God along with his son,Jesus. When Adam sinned, perfection was lost until Jesus bought back our right to live in Paradise. don-ohio :)^) "

So once again you are saying that you believe Jesus was CREATED???
 
I just told you Adam WAS perfect(but we were born after he lost perfection and became sinful)......he was a direct creation of God, of Whom the Bible tells you, `all His works are perfect'.
Adam was perfect,period. He would never have died. Think about that. Good night! don-ohio :)^)

P.S.: I was saying Jesus was alongside God during creation. NOT that Jesus was created when Adam was,if that's what you meant. Jesus was,YES,the `firstborn of all creation.'
 
does your version of the bible tell you that god is all knowing/omniscience?
 
And I just told you that Adam was not perfect,,, because if he was... he never would have sinned. If Adam was perfect,,, then he never would have fallen into temptation by the devil. Doesn't matter if he was a direct creation of God,,, because God gave him free will, (the same as the Angels),,, and he used it to disobey God... just like 1/3 of the Angels did.

If I were to be the first human created,,, sin would have entered the world through me... because I have the same sin nature as Adam... and Adam has the same sin nature as me. If you would have been the first human created,,, sin would have entered the world through you. It's a moot point. Welcome to the human race. Imperfect beings with free will. What was God thinking???

Jesus is the only one who was able to resist the temptaion of the Devil. And while I'm thinking of it,,, don't blame Eve for what Adam did. He was also told not to eat the fruit of the tree,,, and most likely was standing right there whan Eve took a bite... because she handed it to him to take a bite also.
 
I know the question was meant for Don,,, but..

It should Loud,,, because it reads mostly the same as any other translation... but with a few twists. But then there is the Theology and Doctrine of that Faith... that supports the twists.
 
Quote Don:

"he was a direct creation of God, of Whom the Bible tells you, `all His works are perfect'. "

Deuteronomy 32:4

4He is the Rock; his deeds are perfect.
Everything he does is just and fair.
He is a faithful God who does no wrong;
how just and upright he is!

But keep it in context Don. God is chastising Israel, (once again), for walking away from Him... because they were following flase religions and worshipping pagan gods.

But actually... you have to back it up to Deuteronomy 31:30

The Song of Moses

30So Moses recited this entire song publicly to the assembly of Israel:

The read all the way to Deuteronomy 32:44-47

44So Moses came with Joshua son of Nun and recited all the words of this song to the people.

45When Moses had finished reciting all these words to the people of Israel, 46he added: “Take to heart all the words of warning I have given you today. Pass them on as a command to your children so they will obey every word of these instructions. 47These instructions are not empty words—they are your life! By obeying them you will enjoy a long life in the land you will occupy when you cross the Jordan River.”

As I have said before... if you take a verse out of context,,, all you are left with is a con.

Using Scripture around a verse,,, to interpret it... is proper exegesis. Taking a verse out of context to support what you say... is improper eisegesis.

ex·e·ge·sis
/ˌeksiˈjēsis/
noun
noun: exegesis; plural noun: exegeses

critical explanation or interpretation of a text, especially of scripture.
"the task of biblical exegesis"

synonyms: interpretation, explanation, exposition, explication
"the exegesis of ancient texts"

Origin
early 17th century: from Greek exēgēsis, from exēgeisthai ‘interpret,’ from ex- ‘out of’ + hēgeisthai ‘to guide, lead.’



Eisegesis (/ˌaɪsəˈdʒiːsəs/; from the Greek preposition εἰς "into" and the ending from the English word exegesis, Greek ἐξήγησις, which in turn is derived from ἐξηγεῖσθαι "to lead out") is the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that the process introduces one's own presuppositions, agendas, ...
 
You don't even have context,04...............specious arguments don't change Bible facts. `firstborn of all creation' means just what it says. Jesus is not God and doesn't want to be.He is content to be the secondmost power in the universe. don-ohio :)^)
 
LS4me said:
Brother you are wasting your time....
Click to expand...

ha

....IT TOOK YOU THIS LONG TO FIGURE THAT OUT!!!!

1280x720-5Lq.jpg

1280x720-5Lq.jpg
 
don-ohio said:
specious arguments don't change Bible facts.
Click to expand...

as with anything written in a different time and in a different language, there is no such thing as "Bible fact" unless you are the one who wrote it, there is only our best understanding of what they meant when they said it, which is why there are a thousand different beliefs about the same things...



just like how today too many people are confused on what "bear arms" mean... it doesn't mean that you can only wear fuzzy grizzly sleeves or only have muskets. and that was only a couple hundred years ago in the same language...
 
Just keep in mind he's old school ... as in real old and not much school.
Also to take note of is the fact that when he speaks/types, the wooden nose grows.
 
Don makes the mistake of trying to preach 'at' the rest of us. And he comes from a very basic, literal viewpoint. I smile at his earnest-ness while shaking my head at the result he gives us.

This discussion should NOT be in this part of the forum.

KS
 
cammerfe said:
This discussion should NOT be in this part of the forum.
Click to expand...

unfortunately, most member don't even know that there are other sub sections of this forum and a little bit of everything finds its way into this section. so as this section gets the most views, its where everything goes... been that way since before I was a member.
 
cammerfe said:
... This discussion should NOT be in this part of the forum.
Click to expand...


Only on LVC can a "Happy holidays to everyone !!!" thread lead to 13 pages of Jesus Christ.



BTW, you guys do know that we were dropped off here from outer space and they still check up on us from time to time, right? Jesus was just the name of the spacecraft. It's an experiment and sometimes even a glitch in the Matrix happens. You have to have a keen eye for it but it can be noticed easily. Just look at your tax returns, that's a glitch for sure.
 
Quote Loud:

"as with anything written in a different time and in a different language, there is no such thing as "Bible fact" unless you are the one who wrote it, there is only our best understanding of what they meant when they said it, which is why there are a thousand different beliefs about the same things..."



And of course "Bible fact" depends on the denomination teaching the Bible.
 
Quote Loud:

"just like how today too many people are confused on what "bear arms" mean... it doesn't mean that you can only wear fuzzy grizzly sleeves or only have muskets. and that was only a couple hundred years ago in the same language..."

Oh crap!!! I thought it said "arm bears. No wonder that hasn't worked out for me yet.
 
Umm... Don???
You did it again...

Quote Don post #297:
"Jesus is unique in that he is the sole direct creation of his Father...."
Quote Don post #309:
"I just told you Adam WAS perfect(but we were born after he lost perfection and became sinful)......he was a direct creation of God..."
Quote Don post #305:
"Adam and Eve WERE perfect.created by God...
So AGAIN Don,,, you have stated another contradiction. You are double talking... just to try and prove you are right,,, but are actually digging a deeper hole.
So which is it Don??? Is Jesus the sole direct creation of God??? OR... is Adam also a direct creation of God??? You can't have it both ways. Stop stepping on you own tongue,,, with your double minded thinking. You will never convince anyone you are right if you can't make up your own mind. Maybe some people won't know your faith well enough,,, to see that you have been talking in circles... but some will.

Don, I did quote and use what you said IN PERFECT CONTEXT. You just don't see it because of what you have been taught. Your side of this has been specious,,, because you take one small part of Scripture... and try to use it to validate what you are saying.,,, and most of the time you don't even use Scripture.

Definition pulled from Google: https://www.google.com/webhp#q=specious

spe·cious
ˈspēSHəs/
adjective
adjective: specious
superficially plausible, but actually wrong.
"a specious argument"
misleading in appearance, especially misleadingly attractive.
"the music trade gives Golden Oldies a specious appearance of novelty"

synonyms: misleading, deceptive, false, fallacious, unsound, spurious, casuistic, sophistic
"specious reasoning"
 
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