Happy holidays to everyone !!!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Quote don-ohio: "So the NWT is the only Translation that gets it right?"

Quote LS4: "Nope... It's an apostate translation..."

+1, +10, +100, +1000

LS4,

Glad you mentioned the 144,000,,, because I was about to. According to what Scripture says... "they kept themselves chaste, (pure - my emphasis), like virgins". Not necessarily that they didn't get married and have kids,,, but that they lived an innocent and wholesome life, (I actuallly know a few people that fit this description).

After talking to,,, and becoming friends with a person who follows the faith that uses the NWT... I found out people of this faith can "self proclaim" themselves as one of the 144,000. This friend has a sibling that proclaimed themselves as one of the 144,000,,, even though the sibling was divorced,,, and drank heavily,,, and had other issues.

I know I will never be one of the 144,000... because of the life I have lived. However,,, I am not sure this is meant as a literal number,,, but maybe a representative, (metaphorical), number. Maybe I am wrong,,, because 12,000 from 12 tribes are listed in Revelation... but a couple tribes are different from the ones listed in the Old Testament. I know in the Old Testament a number of Israelites strayed completely from God during their captivity... and to a degree this is brought to light in Ezra.

To me it doesn't matter. There are some things my pea brain will not be able to figure out... so I leave it up to God. I have studied Revelation a few times over the years. Don't remember how I came to the calculation, (year), I did,,, but I figure I will be around to see the end if I live for another 2 decades or so. Still doesn't matter... because I know I am saved by faith in who Jesus IS,,, and WHAT HE DID.

Actually,,, all a person has to do is look at the world we are living in... from a Biblical perspective... and they should be able to see how wrong things are... and where the world is going,,, on an accelerated pace. I can't be too long now before God blows the whistle and says: "Okay... everybody out of the pool,,, and line up!"
 
Okay, here's a commentary on the Koine Greek John used and how Jesus is a god or divine,but NOT the Almighty God.Please notice the MYSTERY of the Trinity doctrine and how Cardinal Oconnor viewed it....Ahem......

`MANY people view the Trinity as “the central doctrine of the Christian religion.” According to this teaching, the Father, Son, and holy spirit are three persons in one God. Cardinal John O’Connor stated about the Trinity: “We know that it is a very profound mystery, which we don’t begin to understand.” Why is the Trinity so difficult to understand?
The Illustrated Bible Dictionary gives one reason. Speaking of the Trinity, this publication admits: “It is not a biblical doctrine in the sense that any formulation of it can be found in the Bible.” Because the Trinity is “not a biblical doctrine,” Trinitarians have been desperately looking for Bible texts—even twisting them—to find support for their teaching.
A Text That Teaches the Trinity?
One example of a Bible verse that is often misused is John 1:1. In the King James Version, that verse reads: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God [Greek, ton the·on′], and the Word was God [the·os′].” This verse contains two forms of the Greek noun the·os′ (god). The first is preceded by ton (the), a form of the Greek definite article, and in this case the word the·on′ refers to Almighty God. In the second instance, however, the·os′ has no definite article. Was the article mistakenly left out?
The Gospel of John was written in Koine, or common Greek, which has specific rules regarding the use of the definite article. Bible scholar A.*T.*Robertson recognizes that if both subject and predicate have articles, “both are definite, treated as identical, one and the same, and interchangeable.” Robertson considers as an example Matthew 13:38, which reads: “The field [Greek, ho a·gros′] is the world [Greek, ho ko′smos].” The grammar enables us to understand that the world is also the field.
What, though, if the subject has a definite article but the predicate does not, as in John 1:1? Citing that verse as an example, scholar James Allen Hewett emphasizes: “In such a construction the subject and predicate are not the same, equal, identical, or anything of the sort.”
To illustrate, Hewett uses 1*John 1:5, which says: “God is light.” In Greek, “God” is ho the·os′ and therefore has a definite article. But phos for “light” is not preceded by any article. Hewett points out: “One can always .*.*. say of God He is characterized by light; one cannot always say of light that it is God.” Similar examples are found at John 4:24, “God is a Spirit,” and at 1*John 4:16, “God is love.” In both of these verses, the subjects have definite articles but the predicates, “Spirit” and “love,” do not. So the subjects and predicates are not interchangeable. These verses cannot mean that “Spirit is God” or “love is God.”
Identity of “the Word”?
Many Greek scholars and Bible translators acknowledge that John 1:1 highlights, not the identity, but a quality of “the Word.” Says Bible translator William Barclay: “Because [the apostle John] has no definite article in front of theos it becomes a description .*.*. John is not here identifying the Word with God. To put it very simply, he does not say that Jesus was God.” Scholar Jason David BeDuhn likewise says: “In Greek, if you leave off the article from theos in a sentence like the one in John 1:1c, then your readers will assume you mean ‘a god.’ .*.*. Its absence makes theos quite different than the definite ho theos, as different as ‘a god’ is from ‘God’ in English.” BeDuhn adds: “In John 1:1, the Word is not the one-and-only God, but is a god, or divine being.” Or to put it in the words of Joseph Henry Thayer, a scholar who worked on the American Standard Version: “The Logos [or, Word] was divine, not the divine Being himself.”
Does the identity of God have to be “a very profound mystery”? It did not seem so to Jesus. In his prayer to his Father, Jesus made a clear distinction between him and his Father when he said: “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.” (John 17:3) If we believe Jesus and understand the plain teaching of the Bible, we will respect him as the divine Son of God that he is.

don-ohio :)^)
 
Don,

I'm gonna have to leave your last post up to LS4 to discuss with you. However,,, it would be nice if you cited the resouce/resources of what you are quoting. Don't just throw something up on this thread,,, without providing the source from whence it came. I.E. internet links. In case you missed them,,, go back and check the last few posts. More to come.
 
Here's some more food for translation thinking.........

It is for this reason that a Bible translation in a language that was spoken in the earliest centuries of our Common Era is very interesting.
The language is the Sahidic dialect of Coptic. The Coptic language was spoken in Egypt in the centuries immediately following Jesus’ earthly ministry, and the Sahidic dialect was an early literary form of the language. Regarding the earliest Coptic translations of the Bible, The Anchor Bible Dictionary says: “Since the [Septuagint] and the [Christian Greek Scriptures] were being translated into Coptic during the 3d century C.E., the Coptic version is based on [Greek manuscripts] which are significantly older than the vast majority of extant witnesses.”
The Sahidic Coptic text is especially interesting for two reasons. First, as indicated above, it reflects an understanding of Scripture dating from before the fourth century, which was when the Trinity became official doctrine. Second, Coptic grammar is relatively close to English grammar in one important aspect. The earliest translations of the Christian Greek Scriptures were into Syriac, Latin, and Coptic. Syriac and Latin, like the Greek of those days, do not have an indefinite article. Coptic, however, does. Moreover, scholar Thomas O.*Lambdin, in his work Introduction to Sahidic Coptic, says: “The use of the Coptic articles, both definite and indefinite, corresponds closely to the use of the articles in English.”
Hence, the Coptic translation supplies interesting evidence as to how John 1:1 would have been understood back then. What do we find? The Sahidic Coptic translation uses an indefinite article with the word “god” in the final part of John 1:1. Thus, when rendered into modern English, the translation reads: “And the Word was a god.” Evidently, those ancient translators realized that John’s words recorded at John 1:1 did not mean that Jesus was to be identified as Almighty God. The Word was a god, not Almighty God.
don-ohio :)^)
 
Now look 04....I am working 6, 12 hr shifts in 6 days,so I'll only be able to supply MORE proofs against the Trinity when I get home tomorrow night. But I got plenty more. Because it's what Jesus said, `I am God's son'.
Gotta go to bed now. Sorry. don-ohio :)^)
 
Don,

I have been working that schedule + more since January. Thing is... you are still not providing internet proof of what you are referencing. If you don't provide some sort of link as a reference,,, then how do I know what you are saying is true. Sod don't get condescending with me. Wouldn't happen to be working in Toledo... would you???

More coming.
 
Don,

I'm not giving you a hard time,,, just to give you a hard time. I'm not questioning and challenging your comments and beliefs,,, just to prove you wrong. I'm doing it BECAUSE I CARE. THe "friend" I talked about in post #276??? He died a few years back. I used to send him Christmas cards quoting Matt 1:23. He took it well.

If you were to know me personally,,, and my past... you would be saying: "This guy is trying to teach me about the Bible,,, and tell ME who God is??? Yeah,,, I've made alot of mistakes... and for many years I tried to figure God out,,, and how he "worked". Over the last couple decades,,, I have come to understand that God has ALWAYS had my back,,, if I let Him... and sometimes even if I didn't. I can look clear back to my childhood,,, and see where God has intervened in my life.

Over the last couple decades,,, I have come to have a RELATIONSHIP with God... and have learned to listen to Him, (when I am not being selfish. Sometimes I get it right,,, and because of that God has used me in miraculous ways. Other times I get it wrong,,, and suffer the consequences... while knowing that God still loves me and has forgiven me.
Back in post # 27... I talk about sharing my life story,,, and mentioned that I was orphaned twice by the age of 23, (Go back and read it if you haven't) Thing is... that was just the beginning of my story. God spared me back then... like an abandoned child left to die in the desert.

Thing is... there is more to the story. G-Rell,,,are you ready for another???
 
04_Sport_LS said:
Don,

I'm gonna have to leave your last post up to LS4 to discuss with you. However,,, it would be nice if you cited the resouce/resources of what you are quoting. Don't just throw something up on this thread,,, without providing the source from whence it came. I.E. internet links. In case you missed them,,, go back and check the last few posts. More to come.
Click to expand...

Actually I don't know Greek.. I just did some simple searches. And after living in SLC for 5 years I learned a bit about cults and how to spot them.

I think I'll exit as we are getting nowhere. Time to shake the dust off the sandals.
 
Sooo...

Back when I was 7, (second grade). A kid in the nieghborhood and I,,, got into an argument... and he told me my parents were dead. You can imagine how that went. Are not... are too,,, ans so on. Evidently,,, because the neighborhood was close knit,,, the kids mom had told him what happened. I went home and asked "mom and dad" if it was true. I don't remeber "dad's" response,,, but "mom" started crying. They were planning on telling me when I got older,,, but evidently... things were meant to take a different course.

So while in second grade,,, and dealing with "new revelations" in my own life... I was also bored with school. There was a night "at the kitchen table" were mom was trying to help me do my math homework. Being bored, because I already understood it,,, and thought it was stupid to go on... mom and I were majorly "bumping heads". I eventually, (as a stubborn independant child... imagine that), decided I was going to go do something else.

Sooo... I got up from the kitchen table in a huff,,, while mom was yelling at me. When I got to the dining room, (on the way to the living room to go to my bedroom)... I was LITERALLY "stopped in my tracks" BY A VOICE and A PRESCENCE!!! It said: "Mikal,,, Your mother is trying to help you... Listen to her." So I turn to mom,,, and ask her if she just heard the "VOICE" I heard. Of course she was still "myffed" at me... and asked me what the "VOICE" said. When I told her what the "VOICE" said,,, mom said... (keep in mind she was still furiuos with me): "Well it's right,,, so get over here and finish your homework." I did. I literally only had 2 math problems to finish,,, and when I did.... mom said: "Now was that so hard???" I said "no",,, but she didn't realize what I had just experienced.

So.... now to try to express/explain the voice I heard, (and felt) back when I was 7. The POWER and PRESCENCE I felt back then,,, could be described in many adjectives. Kingship, Glory, Majesty, Power, Prescence, Love, Being, Existance... and whatever other adjectives a person could use to describe God. Looking back... I get a faint undsrstanding of what Moses felt on Mount Sinai.

Trust me G-Rell... this **** is too good to make up!!!

So... about 3 years later at a summer camp I went to for a few years... somehow I am talking to a camp leader,,, and the subject turns toward God. I then start talking about my experience at age 7... and am telling the camp leader that it was God. He starts making excuses that God doesn't communicate that way anymore... and tells me that it was some sort of Angel. I became very adamant at that point,,, that what I heard was God,,, and the camp leader actually got irritated... because I wouldn't back down and accept as truth,,, what he was saying.

Why me??? Why has God dealt directly with me??? Not sure. Maybe because of what I suffered at a young age. Maybe when God created me, (knew me before I was formed in my mothers womb).... he knew and understood what I was going to suffer by other "humans" choices... and knew the choices I would make to follow Him, (eventually). Maybe God knew it would take time, (and experience)... before I wouod be willing to share my story. In the end... only God knows. Sometimes we do partly,,, as we open up to Him.

That's all for now.
 
Posts By don-ohio:

Post #237
The first man Adam was NOT a god and what he lost, US, all his progeny, were bought back by the perfect semblance, Jesus.A perfect man.

Later in post #265
Satan waited until Jesus was in a weaker state,though still a perfect man like Adam. Then he made his three offers to Jesus.

Earlier in post #255
What better way for Satan to confound true worship of God than to insult the Son of God with equality to his Father.

Don... you really need to make your mind up,,, and stop contradicting yourself and God.

Adam is not God,,, but Jesus is a perfect man. Then Jesus is a perfect man,,, just like Adam. Adam was not "a god",,,, but Jesus was "a god". So by what YOU have truthfully said by your own belieifs... you believe that Adam is higher than Jesus. So which is it??? Make up your mind!

What better way for satan to confound true worship of God... than to make Adam more important than Jesus... which is what you have done in past statements.

Don't make lack of sleep and long hours your excuse... because i know the same.
MAKE UP YOUR DUAL MINDED MIND!!!
 
Yes,and he's wrong every time. Instead of attacking the facts I am showing him, he attacks me personally. I'll remind you I have just gotten back to work after missing 4 weeks of work with nearly pneumonia. That would make ANY 64 yr. old weak.
So these 6-12 hr. shifts deserved mention....I HAVE to get my sleep.
Jesus was a man when he died. If he were a god when he died,how could man kill him? Yet,he was asleep in death for parts of 3 days.That bought us back from Adamic sin and death.
To say Adam was more important than Jesus? Nonsense! Jesus had a pre-human existence before anyone or anything was created. Remember Colossians 1:15? Jesus was the `first born of all creation'.
So Jesus was not simply a good man, but he was the ONLY person that could give his life as a corresponding ranson,as a perfect human as Adam was before he sinned.
THIS is a key point...........it helps a person understand the logic God used. Jesus COULD have started a race of perfect humans if he had chosen to stay on earth,marry and raise a family. But he gave up this possibility for us to be healed in the future. Jesus said,`So now,Father,glorify me with the glory I had beside you before the world was.'
don-ohio :)^)

1LoudLS said:
if I haven't seen that said about a dozen times...
Click to expand...
 
Here's some more info. on John's understanding of who the Word was :

Most people do not know Biblical Greek. So how can you know what the apostle John really meant? Think of this example: A schoolteacher explains a subject to his students. Afterward, the students differ on how to understand the explanation. How can the students resolve the matter? They could ask the teacher for more information. No doubt, learning additional facts would help them to understand the subject better. Similarly, to grasp the meaning of John 1:1, you can look in the Gospel of John for more information on Jesus’ position. Learning additional facts on this subject will help you to draw the right conclusion.
For instance, consider what John further writes in chapter*1, verse*18: “No man has seen [Almighty] God at any time.” However, humans have seen Jesus, the Son, for John says: “The Word [Jesus] was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory.” (John 1:14, KJ) How, then, could the Son be part of Almighty God? John also states that the Word was “with God.” But how can an individual be with someone and at the same time be that person? Moreover, as recorded at John 17:3, Jesus makes a clear distinction between himself and his heavenly Father. He calls his Father “the only true God.” And toward the end of his Gospel, John sums up matters by saying: “These have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God.” (John 20:31) Notice that Jesus is called, not God, but the Son of God. This additional information provided in the Gospel of John shows how John 1:1 should be understood. Jesus, the Word, is “a god” in the sense that he has a high position but is not the same as Almighty God.

don-ohio :)^)
 
No Don... I am not attacking you personally,,, and I apologize if you feel I am doing that. That is not my intention. However... I STRONGLY disagree with some of the things you have been saying. I am glad that your health is back on track. Been there,,, and it's not fun. I got a weekend repreive from work this weekend,,, so instead I have been doing yardwork all day, (trimming trees). The chainsaw will come out tomorrow, (too tired tonight),,, and will also mow grass.

Tonight... the weather is beautiful,,, so I'm going to enjoy it with cooking a 2LB steak and baker over an open fire. So I'm gonna keep this short... and take my ball and go home... because I don't want to play tonight.

You say in post #292:

"Jesus was a man when he died. If he were a god when he died,how could man kill him? Yet,he was asleep in death for parts of 3 days.That bought us back from Adamic sin and death."

I'll agree with you partly... but do not understand what you are saying when you say Jesus was asleep in death for "PARTS" of three days. The Bible says Jesus was in the tomb for 3 DAYS... and on the 3rd day,,, He rose.

If you think about this for a moment,,, the same was true about Lazarus... and Jesus used the death of Lazarus as an example of what was going to happen to HIM. Jesus intentionally waited until Lazarus had died... and came to his tomb 3 days later,,, and then raised Lazerous from the dead. The parallel is unquestionable!!!

You say: "If he were a god when he died,how could man kill him?"

That... my dear friend... is the point you are missing,,, because of what you have come to understand by the faith you follow.

Jesus was/is GOD, (not "a god")... and ALLOWED HIMSELF to be killed. Jesus WILLINGLY went to the cross for our sins. If you remember the story in the Garden of Gethsemane... Jesus was in such torment,,, but was WILLING to suffer His own death for us. This was the ONLY temptation Jesus really suffered. (I know you are going to play with the following but..), He didn't beg for satan not to tempt Him on the cliff... but He DID beg that He wouldn't have to suffer the tormentous death He was about to suffer. But Jesus still WILLINGLY went to the Cross. IT WAS HIS CHOICE,,, AND GOD LOVED US SO MUCH,,, THAT HE WAS WILLING TO DIE FOR US!

As I have said before... our pea brains have a hard time understanding the fact that God sacrificed HIMSELF for... US.

Jesus did NOT take the throne in 1914, 1925, or 1975. He took the throne the MOMENT He died!!! That is how he was able to minister to the Spirits in "prison"!!!

Matthew 27:51-54

51And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split. 52The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, 53and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many. 54When the centurion and those who were with him, keeping watch over Jesus, saw the earthquake and what took place, they were filled with awe and said, “Truly this was the Son of God!”

So what does it mean to be "asleep" according to the Bible??? What does it mean to be "dead" according to the Bible???

Matthew 9:23-26

23When Jesus arrived at the official’s home, he saw the noisy crowd and heard the funeral music. 24“Get out!” he told them. “The girl isn’t dead; she’s only asleep.” But the crowd laughed at him. 25After the crowd was put outside, however, Jesus went in and took the girl by the hand, and she stood up! 26And the report of this went through all that district.

Luke 8:51-56

51When they arrived at the house, Jesus wouldn’t let anyone go in with him except Peter, John, James, and the little girl’s father and mother. 52The house was filled with people weeping and wailing, but he said, “Stop the weeping! She isn’t dead; she’s only asleep.”

53But the crowd laughed at him because they all knew she had died. 54Then Jesus took her by the hand and said in a loud voice, “My child, get up!” 55And at that moment her life returned, and she immediately stood up! Then Jesus told them to give her something to eat. 56Her parents were overwhelmed, but Jesus insisted that they not tell anyone what had happened.

Mark 5:35-43

35While he was still speaking, there came from the ruler’s house some who said, “Your daughter is dead. Why trouble the Teacher any further?” 36But overhearinge what they said, Jesus said to the ruler of the synagogue, “Do not fear, only believe.” 37And he allowed no one to follow him except Peter and James and John the brother of James. 38They came to the house of the ruler of the synagogue, and Jesusf saw a commotion, people weeping and wailing loudly. 39And when he had entered, he said to them, “Why are you making a commotion and weeping? The child is not dead but sleeping.” 40And they laughed at him. But he put them all outside and took the child’s father and mother and those who were with him and went in where the child was. 41Taking her by the hand he said to her, “Talitha cumi,” which means, “Little girl, I say to you, arise.” 42And immediately the girl got up and began walking (for she was twelve years of age), and they were immediately overcome with amazement. 43And he strictly charged them that no one should know this, and told them to give her something to eat.

So "sleeping" means physically dead. This holds true for anyone from the Old Testament,,, that died with FAITH in God... and understood who HE was... even though CHRIST hadn't died yet. The book of Hebrews confirms this!!!

Now let's look at what it means to be really dead. Remember the story of the young man,,, that Jesus says to "follow him"??? The young man said he would... but he needed to bury his father first. What did Jesus say to him???

Luke 9:57-62

57As they were walking along, someone said to Jesus, “I will follow you wherever you go.”

58But Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens to live in, and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place even to lay his head.”

59He said to another person, “Come, follow me.”

The man agreed, but he said, “Lord, first let me return home and bury my father.”

60But Jesus told him, “Let the spiritually dead bury their own dead!l Your duty is to go and preach about the Kingdom of God.”

61Another said, “Yes, Lord, I will follow you, but first let me say good-bye to my family.”

62But Jesus told him, “Anyone who puts a hand to the plow and then looks back is not fit for the Kingdom of God.”

Matthew 8: 18-22

18When Jesus saw the crowd around him, he instructed his disciples to cross to the other side of the lake.

19Then one of the teachers of religious law said to him, “Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.”

20But Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens to live in, and birds have nests, but the Son of Mane has no place even to lay his head.”

21Another of his disciples said, “Lord, first let me return home and bury my father.”

22But Jesus told him, “Follow me now. Let the spiritually dead bury their own dead.”

Don,

I don't know what else to say,,, or what else to show you. I can present Scripture after Scripture,,, but if you are fixated on what you have been taught in the past,,, you will not listen. This has been longer than I intended. Time for a campfire and steak & potatoe. I will be going to church tomorrow,,, and will be praying for you. Truthfully... I already have been.

God Bless
 
Quote 04: ` ..................... He DID beg that He wouldn't have to suffer the tormentous death He was about to suffer...............' UNQUOTE.

Okay,who did Jesus beg? He begged God,his Father. He did not beg himself.....he leaned on God. don-ohio :)^)
 
Here's some more Bible truth on Jesus, who he is. Please look up REVELATION chap. 3,verse 12,written by John as Jesus spoke it.

Jesus is unique in that he is the sole direct creation of his Father. He is the firstborn Son. In fact, he is “the firstborn of all creation.” (Col. 1:15) He is “the beginning of the creation by God.” The only-begotten Son’s role in creation is also unique. He was not the Creator, or Originator, of creation. But God used him as the agent, or means, to create all other things. (Read John 1:3.) The apostle Paul wrote: “There is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.”—1*Cor. 8:6.
However, much more is involved in the uniqueness of Jesus. The Scriptures attribute to him many titles or designations that highlight his unique role in God’s purpose.
“The Word”
Read John 1:14. Why is Jesus called “the Word,” or Logos? This title identifies the function that he has performed since other intelligent creatures came into existence. Jehovah used his Son to convey information and instructions to other spirit sons, even as God used that Son to deliver His message to humans on earth. The fact that Jesus is the Word, or God’s Spokesman, is echoed in what Christ said to his Jewish listeners: “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me. If anyone desires to do His will, he will know concerning the teaching whether it is from God or I speak of my own originality.” (John 7:16,*17)

don-ohio :)^)
 
A simple Google search:

https://www.google.com/webhp#q=meaning+of+the+greek+word+logos


Logos, ( Greek: “word,” “reason,” or “plan”) plural logoi, in Greek philosophy and theology, the divine reason implicit in the cosmos, ordering it and giving it form and meaning.

logos | philosophy and theology | Britannica.com
www.britannica.com/topic/logos

Encyclopædia Britannica

So if Jesus is the WORD, and the WORD gives the cosmos order, form and meaning. Who is the ONLY ONE that can give order form and meaning to the cosmos??? That's right... GOD,,, so Jesus is GOD made (in the) flesh.

Of course... you are still hung up on the word "Son",,, and you won't see it as meaning anything other than "offspring".... so now we go round and round and round for the 10TH time.
 
http://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-the-Logos.html

Question: "What is the Logos?"

Answer: Logos is the Greek term translated as “word,” “speech,” “principle,” or “thought.” In Greek philosophy, it also referred to a universal, divine reason or the mind of God.

In the New Testament, the Gospel of John begins, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men” (John 1:1-4). Here it is clear that the “Word” or Logos is a reference to Jesus Christ.

John argues that Jesus, the Word or Logos, is eternal and is God. Further, all creation came about by and through Jesus, who is presented as the source of life. Amazingly, this Logos came and lived among us: “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth” (John 1:14).

John’s Gospel begins by using the Greek idea of a “divine reason” or “the mind of God” as a way to connect with the readers of his day and introduce Jesus to them as God. Greek philosophy may have used the word in reference to divine reason, but John used it to note many of the attributes of Jesus. In John’s use of the Logos concept, we find that

-Jesus is eternal (“In the beginning was the Word”)
-Jesus was with God prior to coming to earth (“the Word was with God”)
-Jesus is God (“the Word was God.”)
-Jesus is Creator (“All things were made through him”)
-Jesus is the Giver of Life (“In him was life”)
-Jesus became human to live among us (“the Word became flesh and dwelt among us”)

Further, the opening of John’s Gospel carries a striking resemblance to Genesis 1:1.

“In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1).

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him…” (John 1:1).

(The corresponding theme of “light” is also used in both Genesis 1 and John 1.)

Logos is used in many ways, yet in John’s Gospel Logos is a clear reference to Jesus, the God who both created us and lived among us. Logos became a theological term important to Christians in the early church and remains a concept of significant influence today.
 
As a repeat to a recent post:

http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-Son-of-God.html

Question: "What does it mean that Jesus is the Son of God?"

Answer: Jesus is not God’s Son in the sense of a human father and a son. God did not get married and have a son. God did not mate with Mary and, together with her, produce a son. Jesus is God’s Son in the sense that He is God made manifest in human form (John 1:1, 14). Jesus is God's Son in that He was conceived in Mary by the Holy Spirit. Luke 1:35 declares, “The angel answered, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.’”

During His trial before the Jewish leaders, the High Priest demanded of Jesus, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God” (Matthew 26:63). “’Yes, it is as you say,’ Jesus replied. ‘But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven’” (Matthew 26:64). The Jewish leaders responded by accusing Jesus of blasphemy (Matthew 26:65-66). Later, before Pontius Pilate, “The Jews insisted, ‘We have a law, and according to that law He must die, because He claimed to be the Son of God’” (John 19:7). Why would His claiming to be the Son of God be considered blasphemy and be worthy of a death sentence? The Jewish leaders understood exactly what Jesus meant by the phrase “Son of God.” To be the Son of God is to be of the same nature as God. The Son of God is “of God.” The claim to be of the same nature as God—to in fact be God—was blasphemy to the Jewish leaders; therefore, they demanded Jesus’ death, in keeping with Leviticus 24:15. Hebrews 1:3 expresses this very clearly, “The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being.”

Another example can be found in John 17:12 where Judas is described as the “son of perdition.” John 6:71 tells us that Judas was the son of Simon. What does John 17:12 mean by describing Judas as the “son of perdition”? The word perdition means “destruction, ruin, waste.” Judas was not the literal son of “ruin, destruction, and waste,” but those things were the identity of Judas' life. Judas was a manifestation of perdition. In this same way, Jesus is the Son of God. The Son of God is God. Jesus is God made manifest (John 1:1, 14
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Total: 227 (members: 1, guests: 226)
Back
Top