Help - Mass airflow sensor/airfilter/throttle body

I was just breakin' chops on the ETC thing. :D

No problem on the codes. Figured I'd make up for the chop bustin' with some real info. :D
 
The TPS is tied to the ETC system because when the ETC system notices wheel spin it wants to know where your foot is on the gas pedal(TPS) and make adjustments to the TB to cut engine power since TB is fly by wire.
 
Fords also have a problem of when really cold outside the Electonic TB likes to freeze up and stick untill motor heat warms them. That will throw a code because TPS specs knows throttle should be open certain amount and its not.
 
Right on the Mark said:
The TPS is tied to the ETC system because when the ETC system notices wheel spin it wants to know where your foot is on the gas pedal(TPS) and make adjustments to the TB to cut engine power since TB is fly by wire.
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TPS gives throttle position, not pedal position. The two are not directly linked with throttle by wire (aka ETC).
ETC = Electronic Throttle Control.

ETC is not Electronic Traction Control. Ford calls traction control TC, and throttle by wire ETC.

TC is a function of the ABS controller module. When it detects wheel spin, it first applies the brakes to the wheel that is spinning. If that is not enough, both wheels are spinning, or the car's speed is too high for such braking, it sends a command to the engine controller to reduce engine power. It never checks, asks or cares what the throttle position is. That is the engine controller's problem to keep up with. The engine controller decides how to reduce power. On a ETC engine, it will just reduce the throttle opening some. On a non-ETC engine, it will reduce timing and maybe cut fuel to some cylinders. Either way, the TC module works the same, it just sends the reduce power command to the engine computer.
 
<<<<Fords also have a problem of when really cold outside the Electonic TB likes to freeze up and stick untill motor heat warms them. That will throw a code because TPS specs knows throttle should be open certain amount and its not.>>>>>>>

Heck, I wonder if that wasn't the whole problem. All this stuff happened not long after my wife left this morning.
 
Finally spoke with the service "advisor" and he didn't have an answer to the dry airfilter that was supposed to have been soaked. He said that's what the mechanic told him. He said he would ask the mechanic and put the phone down. Came back and said mechanic went home for the day. Said he would call me tomorrow.
 
So are you saying the ETC has its own TPS in it? You state the ABS modual cuts throttle in extrem cases how does it know how much to close throttle blade? Just wondering.
 
Possibly but not likely.

Im telling you, a band clamp wasn't secured all the way and the MAF and box came disconnected. It happens.


If it happens again tomorrow since its still going to be sub zero temps then you know it is a frozen TB.;)

:)
 
thats crap that the maf sensor went. at worst, it needed a clean, throw in a dry filter (oh wait it was dry) and i bet it would be good to go.

you should ask for your old sensor back (that is if they even put a new one on!!), plug it in to your now functioning car and go for a drive with the mechanic. if the car runs fine (i bet it does), drop the guy off at some random spot a few miles away from the dealership and drive home. never go there again. they charged you over $400 to snap your air box shut and avoid responsibility for future issues.
 
Its not the mechanics fault they are told to replace anything and everything to make a buck I bet. If it was the mechanics own car he woulda dried it out and been done. Are you saying they might of not even replaced the old MAS with a new one? I've seen hidden camera stings where they change nothing .I like to mark stuff that needs to be replaced so you know 100% its new.
 
Right on the Mark said:
So are you saying the ETC has its own TPS in it? You state the ABS modual cuts throttle in extrem cases how does it know how much to close throttle blade? Just wondering.
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Yes, The ETC has a TPS, it has to. The ETC (Electronic Throttle Control) has a motor that opens and closes the throttle. The TPS tells the engine controller how open the throttle is, so it knows when to turn the motor on and off. The gas pedal has two sensors that are similar to the TPS. The two pedal position sensors tell the engine controller how much power you are requesting. There are two of them as a safety measure. If one should fail (particularly if in the wide open position), the engine computer will know because both disagree. At that point, it goes into a low power only mode.

The ABS doesn't cut throttle, the ABS sends a command to the engine controller, and it cuts the throttle. Neither one (ABS or engine controller) knows how much the throttle needs to be cut. The ABS keeps commanding the engine controller to reduce power until the wheel spin stops. After that, it sends an okay command and the engine computer begins to restore power. If the wheels start to spin again, the process repeats.
 
Ringmaster said:
...Wife leaves for work this AM and a few miles down the road the engine light comes on and there is reduced power. She limps to dealer who after the $100 diognostic tells her that the airbox cover was loose and water/snow got in there and soaked the airfilter and ruined the mass airflow sensor...
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My limited experience with a dirty MAF is that it completely stopped the engine from running. You tale sounds more like an issue with the ETC. I've heard of them sticking when cold, and I've heard of them being falsely diagnosed as bad by the engine computer due to RFI from bad coils.
 
Ok so it just keeps cutting power till it sees the desired results. This is why I wanted a gen 1. I like an old trusty throttle cable over all the new crazy stuff.
 
If the MAS dies doesn't the computer then switch to look up tables to run? On stangs not saying same as LS early ones don't even have a MAS there speed density. Not ford again but friends 2000 supercharged bonny the MAS died the car would run but not over 20 mph new MAS and good as new.
 
When I stated the ABS cuts the throttle I meant in a round about way it does cut the power. In the long run if the ABS system didn't tell the ECU to cut power no power would be cut. But the ECU does the actual cutting of power.
 
Right on the Mark said:
When I stated the ETC cuts the throttle I meant in a round about way it does cut the power. In the long run if the ETC system didn't tell the ECU to cut power no power would be cut. But the ECU does the actual cutting of power.
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ETC is not Electronic Traction Control.
 
Right on the Mark said:
If the MAS dies doesn't the computer then switch to look up tables to run? On stangs not saying same as LS early ones don't even have a MAS there speed density. Not ford again but friends 2000 supercharged bonny the MAS died the car would run but not over 20 mph new MAS and good as new.
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That's the way I would have believed it to work as well. That's why I didn't check the MAF when mine died on the interstate. I had it towed to a dealer, and they showed me a bug (beetle of some sort) stuck to the MAF wire. Cleaned that off (and $100 or so later) and it started and ran fine. Before that, it would almost start, but die as soon as you released the key. Another member on here has related the exact same experience.
(P.S. The filter box lid was not snapped all the way down.)
 
Kinda weird the LS doesn't go to look up tables real easy for them to get the car to run 90% with just those .That would let car drive home and not leave peeps stranded. But ford likes to change stuff all the time.
 
joegr said:
My limited experience with a dirty MAF is that it completely stopped the engine from running. You tale sounds more like an issue with the ETC. I've heard of them sticking when cold, and I've heard of them being falsely diagnosed as bad by the engine computer due to RFI from bad coils.
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Disconnected completely and it wont run. But dirty or if there is un-metered air going passed it cause a loose clamp where it meats the intake tube could cause these type of problems.

(P.S. The filter box lid was not snapped all the way down.)
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Dont matter, all air is still going through the MAF.
 
JWerner2 said:
Disconnected completely and it wont run. But dirty or if there is un-metered air going passed it cause a loose clamp where it meats the intake tube could cause these type of problems.



Dont matter, all air is still going through the MAF.
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The point was that the bug got into the MAF due to the filter box lid not being closed all the way. It had nothing to do with airflow.
 
I think when he stated "air box lid not snapped down" that was how the beetle got on the MAS wire.
 
joegr said:
The point was that the bug got into the MAF due to the filter box lid not being closed all the way. It had nothing to do with airflow.
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Sorry, I thought your point was that the OP's box wasnt closed all the way:p


My mistake.
 
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