cleanLS
Active LVC Member
So are you writing a book on this build? OR did i just read that wrong? I would be interested in doing the jag motor in my ls, but not for the 800+ your going for but more like the 300-400hp range.
Land Speed LS
- Thread starter cammerfe
- Start date
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Quarter mile runs
I have a tendency to get carried away. Some years ago I decided to 'warm-up' a Pinto with a few aftermarket mods, and by the time it really came together, it had a 466 SCJ engine in the front seat, a full tube frame and roll cage, and a four inch chopped top.
My purpose in doing the LS has been to gain experience toward running the full course at Bonneville. The LS will remain as my daily driver, and as I get the B'ville car completed, I'll segue into running that instead of the LS. I wouldn't rule completely out the chance of a trip down the quarter, but to be at all able to harness 800+ HP, the changes necessary to the suspension will severely compromise daily use-ability.
Suspension changes to the LS will be directed toward handling!
KenS from Ben's Place
I have a tendency to get carried away. Some years ago I decided to 'warm-up' a Pinto with a few aftermarket mods, and by the time it really came together, it had a 466 SCJ engine in the front seat, a full tube frame and roll cage, and a four inch chopped top.
My purpose in doing the LS has been to gain experience toward running the full course at Bonneville. The LS will remain as my daily driver, and as I get the B'ville car completed, I'll segue into running that instead of the LS. I wouldn't rule completely out the chance of a trip down the quarter, but to be at all able to harness 800+ HP, the changes necessary to the suspension will severely compromise daily use-ability.
Suspension changes to the LS will be directed toward handling!
KenS from Ben's Place
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Books and Magazines
My friend Ben, owner and operator of 'Ben's Place', is the book writer. He claims to be writing only 'made-up' stuff, but also says that the reader should use his head. (Google 'Benjamin Garrick' for more info.) I have been writing magazine stuff for more than 30 years and have a contract with Primedia. I'm sure that a goodly share of the technical details will find their way into one of the magazines. When I have a publication date, I'll post it here.
KenS from Ben's Place
<edit> For the price, the Jag's hard to beat. My '99 version makes about 300 HP stock and if you were to acquire the supercharged iteration of the engine, you'd have 400 HP without further mods. There are some differences, but the XCAL , according to the discussions I've had with their tech gurus, can overcome the alternate layouts. This Spring certainly should be interesting! KS
My friend Ben, owner and operator of 'Ben's Place', is the book writer. He claims to be writing only 'made-up' stuff, but also says that the reader should use his head. (Google 'Benjamin Garrick' for more info.) I have been writing magazine stuff for more than 30 years and have a contract with Primedia. I'm sure that a goodly share of the technical details will find their way into one of the magazines. When I have a publication date, I'll post it here.
KenS from Ben's Place
<edit> For the price, the Jag's hard to beat. My '99 version makes about 300 HP stock and if you were to acquire the supercharged iteration of the engine, you'd have 400 HP without further mods. There are some differences, but the XCAL , according to the discussions I've had with their tech gurus, can overcome the alternate layouts. This Spring certainly should be interesting! KS
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?
One of my son-in-laws has a 4.0 turbo Jag and is worried about the plastic cam chain tensioners breaking. He states that the best price he has gotten is $2,500 because of the labor involved. He also mentioned that if it jumps more than one tooth, then the motor is gone. I was curious if you have any comment on this and/or how you have addressed this issue with your 4.0? I understand that there is a third-generation metal-based tensioner kit.
One of my son-in-laws has a 4.0 turbo Jag and is worried about the plastic cam chain tensioners breaking. He states that the best price he has gotten is $2,500 because of the labor involved. He also mentioned that if it jumps more than one tooth, then the motor is gone. I was curious if you have any comment on this and/or how you have addressed this issue with your 4.0? I understand that there is a third-generation metal-based tensioner kit.
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cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Jag Engine Questions
Brock, to tell the truth, I haven't paid any attention to any of the small hardware yet. When we tore down the engine, we carefully laid out the 'bits' and other than a cursory glance to see if anything was broken, it's laid right there.
The main function of the 'tensioners' is to keep the longer, straight runs of chain from oscillating. There is a short plastic 'shoe' mounted to a spring arrangement to do this. If I find any appreciable wear upon close examination, I'll probably just make up new shoes---maybe from steel. This is a common concern on most all OHC motors. And please remember that the mechanics believe they have you by the gonads when any of this kind of work needs doing. I was quoted $3500 for trans repairs on a '94 Jag I had. It turned out to be a relay that I bought from the local parts store for $6.00. I also had to buy a Haynes book to get the right wiring diagram. The job took about thirty seconds if you don't count the time spent standing at the counter.
I don't know what new tensioners would cost from the Ford dealer, but the job of replacement could easily be done in half a day with ordinary hand tools. When working on a car, rape is common !!
KenS from Ben's Place
Brock, to tell the truth, I haven't paid any attention to any of the small hardware yet. When we tore down the engine, we carefully laid out the 'bits' and other than a cursory glance to see if anything was broken, it's laid right there.
The main function of the 'tensioners' is to keep the longer, straight runs of chain from oscillating. There is a short plastic 'shoe' mounted to a spring arrangement to do this. If I find any appreciable wear upon close examination, I'll probably just make up new shoes---maybe from steel. This is a common concern on most all OHC motors. And please remember that the mechanics believe they have you by the gonads when any of this kind of work needs doing. I was quoted $3500 for trans repairs on a '94 Jag I had. It turned out to be a relay that I bought from the local parts store for $6.00. I also had to buy a Haynes book to get the right wiring diagram. The job took about thirty seconds if you don't count the time spent standing at the counter.
I don't know what new tensioners would cost from the Ford dealer, but the job of replacement could easily be done in half a day with ordinary hand tools. When working on a car, rape is common !!
KenS from Ben's Place
AndrewCoja
Well-Known LVC Member
I was rereading the thread.
Pff. This guy needs the Rolls Royce from the P-51D if he ever expects to get anywhere near Germany. Especially if he ever gets in a climbing battle against a Messerschmidt.
Pff. This guy needs the Rolls Royce from the P-51D if he ever expects to get anywhere near Germany. Especially if he ever gets in a climbing battle against a Messerschmidt.
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
But he sure did honk on the runways. Really! As I'm sure you know, airports were often used as dragstrips. This was clear back in the '50s and here in the western suburbs of Detroit. He was a friend of a friend. I heard he moved to California. The car was somewhat tire-limited. The engine took up most of the interior and he drove while sitting next to the engine.
KenS from Ben's Place
Rodewaryer
Dedicated LVC Member
Value added thread
This has been the most "smack talking free" thread and the most value added on this forum in a long time. Look forward to learning even more as this progresses. Especially along the lines of making HP from the Jag engine....my compliments to "cammerfe". Awesome thread and great information!
This has been the most "smack talking free" thread and the most value added on this forum in a long time. Look forward to learning even more as this progresses. Especially along the lines of making HP from the Jag engine....my compliments to "cammerfe". Awesome thread and great information!
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Thank you for your kind words! I've been 'hot-rodding' for a long time and usually, (but not always), seem to be working on a daily driver. That means that you have to do your mods in 'weekend-size' chunks so you arent torn down for more than a couple of days, or, as I'm doing now, get another engine to work on while continuing to drive the car in the meantime.
When I have the new engine ready to install, it'll actually be remarkably close to stock configuration. The lower end will consist of a steel-strap-supported stock main girdle, with custom aluminium rods and forged pistons. The valve train will be all titanium but will likely be very little different dimensionally. Ports will be cleaned-up a little, but not looking much different than to remove tool marks
When I have the new engine ready to install, it'll actually be remarkably close to stock configuration. The lower end will consist of a steel-strap-supported stock main girdle, with custom aluminium rods and forged pistons. The valve train will be all titanium but will likely be very little different dimensionally. Ports will be cleaned-up a little, but not looking much different than to remove tool marks
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Nitrous Oxide Questions
I'd have added to the above post but got called away and now it's several hours later.
I was asked, by email, about the NX 'spray' system I used to set the National Land Speed Records. Since this is the basis of the beginning article I've written for Primedia, let me keep things general here. Any time the NX system in the engine compartment is actuated, the engine gets not only nitrous oxide, it also gets methanol where it would ordinarily get gasoline. This allows for a richer mixture into the engine and makes more power than there would be with gasoline. I've just begun to explore, with NX help, (they sponsor me) the improvements this makes. At this point, what would be 100 HP of gas/N2O is probably equal to about 120 HP of NH3OH/N20. There's about 1.5 MPH difference between the two records. Much more to be found in the Primedia pages. I'll post here when I get a print date.
KenS from Ben's Place.
I'd have added to the above post but got called away and now it's several hours later.
I was asked, by email, about the NX 'spray' system I used to set the National Land Speed Records. Since this is the basis of the beginning article I've written for Primedia, let me keep things general here. Any time the NX system in the engine compartment is actuated, the engine gets not only nitrous oxide, it also gets methanol where it would ordinarily get gasoline. This allows for a richer mixture into the engine and makes more power than there would be with gasoline. I've just begun to explore, with NX help, (they sponsor me) the improvements this makes. At this point, what would be 100 HP of gas/N2O is probably equal to about 120 HP of NH3OH/N20. There's about 1.5 MPH difference between the two records. Much more to be found in the Primedia pages. I'll post here when I get a print date.
KenS from Ben's Place.
Rodewaryer
Dedicated LVC Member
Great stuff, I know I'll be here watching......
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Brain Fade
Hopefully none of those reading have caught the error in the chemical formula I used just above. I can only plead the hour---close to 2AM and that I was even more my usual fuzzy self. Methanol is CH3OH.
KenS from Ben's Place
Hopefully none of those reading have caught the error in the chemical formula I used just above. I can only plead the hour---close to 2AM and that I was even more my usual fuzzy self. Methanol is CH3OH.
KenS from Ben's Place
AndrewCoja
Well-Known LVC Member
Because I am sure we were all going to mix up a batch and throw it in the engine.
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
I'm very enthusiastic about NX because they're the only ones that were un-ruffled by my intent to run methanol. They not only gave me a set of starting numbers in terms of jet size, they offered (and I accepted!) sponsorship so that all the basic hard parts are a matched set. So far, I've gone richer twice from the suggested starting setting---three changes altogether. With each run I set a new national record.
Several other manufacturers responded with, "Say what"? and the sound of head scratching, or were otherwise uncooperative. The result was that the hardware is about 2/3 NX and the rest is generic parts and fittings that would be used for any automotive plumbing project. The photos back about # 11-12 or so will give you the basic layout.
KenS from Ben's Place
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Ignition Update
It may be of interest to some of you who have had trouble with leaking seals causing failure of your ignition coils, and/or those who, in addition, might be interested in an ignition upgrade, that I'm working with a major aftermarket ignition parts supplier. The result will be to work out the details of what's necessary in order to be able to avail ourselves of the much upgraded coil-on-plug components that're out there in the marketplace.
Details are sketchy as yet, but the alterations necessary to use coils originally meant for other performance engines are being explored between us. The purpose, of course, is that enhanced ignition is highly worthwhile when using spray or when some sort of supercharging is being employed. Since I'm going to use both in my Land Speed Record attempts it's one more of the necessary items that're in process of being checked off.
I believe I've alluded to that ultimate purpose in my LS experiments on more than one occasion on this forum. Not only am I seeking the ultimate performance upgrades possible to my LS for racing while maintaining street-driving viability, I am soaking up the land speed racing experience like a sponge. I will be taking delivery of a particularly appropriate kit car sometime this spring. It too will have a sprayed, TT engine installed. But in this case, I'll be starting with a 450+ CID Ford FE engine such as has been used in NASCAR racing and drag racing. Since some iterations of that powerplant are capable of over 1K of both HP and torque BEFORE the application of either spray or any supercharging equipment, I'll ultimately have a 'ride' that'll be fully Bonneville worthy. And because of the tractability of engines built specifically for N2O with CH3OH, and turbocharging in addition, the result will be a truly unique vehicle. I'm actually duplicating a car already owned by my friend Ben Garrick. He and I have agreed that, with his help, we'll go 'to the salt'. He's helping me to be, to significant extent, a copycat. You can read about his own car in his books, the latest of which is called, Detroit: Autumn Red.
KenS from Ben's Place
It may be of interest to some of you who have had trouble with leaking seals causing failure of your ignition coils, and/or those who, in addition, might be interested in an ignition upgrade, that I'm working with a major aftermarket ignition parts supplier. The result will be to work out the details of what's necessary in order to be able to avail ourselves of the much upgraded coil-on-plug components that're out there in the marketplace.
Details are sketchy as yet, but the alterations necessary to use coils originally meant for other performance engines are being explored between us. The purpose, of course, is that enhanced ignition is highly worthwhile when using spray or when some sort of supercharging is being employed. Since I'm going to use both in my Land Speed Record attempts it's one more of the necessary items that're in process of being checked off.
I believe I've alluded to that ultimate purpose in my LS experiments on more than one occasion on this forum. Not only am I seeking the ultimate performance upgrades possible to my LS for racing while maintaining street-driving viability, I am soaking up the land speed racing experience like a sponge. I will be taking delivery of a particularly appropriate kit car sometime this spring. It too will have a sprayed, TT engine installed. But in this case, I'll be starting with a 450+ CID Ford FE engine such as has been used in NASCAR racing and drag racing. Since some iterations of that powerplant are capable of over 1K of both HP and torque BEFORE the application of either spray or any supercharging equipment, I'll ultimately have a 'ride' that'll be fully Bonneville worthy. And because of the tractability of engines built specifically for N2O with CH3OH, and turbocharging in addition, the result will be a truly unique vehicle. I'm actually duplicating a car already owned by my friend Ben Garrick. He and I have agreed that, with his help, we'll go 'to the salt'. He's helping me to be, to significant extent, a copycat. You can read about his own car in his books, the latest of which is called, Detroit: Autumn Red.
KenS from Ben's Place
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MMAFIGHTER121
Dedicated LVC Member
keep us posted on the coil on plug upgrades! i'll definately keep my eye out cuz better spark is always a top notch bang for buck upgrade and usually easy
thethirdeye88
Well-Known LVC Member
i'm down for the spark...
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
I'm unfamiliar with GMS. I expect to use coils from one of the Ford engine designs (With suitable alterations) from an engine such as the 4.6. The engineers at the aftermarket company are very positive about our ability to make this work.
KenS from Ben's Place
thethirdeye88
Well-Known LVC Member
i'm waiting...
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Aluminium rods revisited ---again
As part of a bench-racing session with friend Ben recently, we were discussing the likely life of a set of aluminium rods when used on the street. Although there are certainly some significant differences, it was pointed out that the main bearings in the Jag 4 litre---and also, I assume, the 3.9---are supported by aluminium. The engine now in my car has 112K miles on it and I'm sure that I read somewhere here recently that others are approaching 150K. Reflecting on this certainly puts the use of aluminium as a rod material in perspective. I'll still monitor oil pressure closely and listen for the characteristic sounds of bearings beginning to fail, but after the discussion, I was left with the thought that, "I haven't had any real concerns about my plan, but after contemplating the mains, Why didn't I think of that??"
KenS from Ben's Place
As part of a bench-racing session with friend Ben recently, we were discussing the likely life of a set of aluminium rods when used on the street. Although there are certainly some significant differences, it was pointed out that the main bearings in the Jag 4 litre---and also, I assume, the 3.9---are supported by aluminium. The engine now in my car has 112K miles on it and I'm sure that I read somewhere here recently that others are approaching 150K. Reflecting on this certainly puts the use of aluminium as a rod material in perspective. I'll still monitor oil pressure closely and listen for the characteristic sounds of bearings beginning to fail, but after the discussion, I was left with the thought that, "I haven't had any real concerns about my plan, but after contemplating the mains, Why didn't I think of that??"
KenS from Ben's Place
there are a good number of people running Aluminum rods on street driven machines... How many miles they put on them, I don't know... but the fact remains... They aren't relegated to track driven trailer queens anymore.
cammerfe
Dedicated LVC Member
Methanol and Nitrous Oxide
I've had several PMs regarding various aspects of the spray system I used to set the land speed records at Maxton. Since that info fit into the current thread running regarding the use of the XCal, I've made several comments and given answers there.
KenS from Ben's Place
I've had several PMs regarding various aspects of the spray system I used to set the land speed records at Maxton. Since that info fit into the current thread running regarding the use of the XCal, I've made several comments and given answers there.
KenS from Ben's Place