Lincoln becomes the new Acura; Ford nixes V8 for MKS

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captainalias

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Boooo. If you took the survey on Lincoln's website, my guess is they're going to offer some sort of twin-turbo V-6 based on the Duratec 35.

What a croc, Lincoln always gets the shaft. Why don't they ditch Mercury already. Thanks a lot way forward plan.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060821/SUB/60819024/1128/FREE

DETROIT -- Ford Motor Co. has killed plans to put a V-8 engine in its future Lincoln flagship sedan.

The 4.4-liter V-8, a version of a Yamaha engine used in the Volvo XC90 crossover, was slated to power the Lincoln MKS beginning in 2008. Ford planned to produce the V-8 at its Lima, Ohio, plant. But in recent days, the company has canceled the program, supplier and industry sources say.

The V-8 appears to be a victim of new cost-cutting efforts by Ford, which says it needs to accelerate its Way Forward restructuring plan for North America.

"Lower-volume engine production is always higher cost," said Eric Fedewa, a powertrain analyst with CSM Worldwide in Northville, Mich.

Ford had planned to use the V-8 in other future products, including crossovers for the Ford and Lincoln brands. Annual engine volume was expected to approach 100,000.

Ford now will rely solely on its new 3.5-liter V-6 engine family to power the MKS, sources said. Ford's other V-8s are too large. The decision could prove to be a competitive challenge in a segment where most rivals offer a V-8.

The 3.5-liter V-6 is being added to the Ford Five Hundred and Mercury Montego sedans, which share a platform with the MKS. Lincoln's smaller MKZ sedan also is using the 3.5-liter V-6 beginning this fall.

To set the bigger sedan apart, Ford will boost the output of the base V-6 for the MKS, sources said.

Ford spokeswoman Sara Tatchio said: "We have taken the step to differentiate the powertrain in the Lincoln MKZ, and we hope to do that for Lincolns moving forward."
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now if they put in a 350 hp Twin-turbo V-6, then we might have something to talk about....

Screw it, if Ford is going to leave Lincoln by the wayside, then they might as well just sell Lincoln and buy Acura.
 
And this is another reason why Ford is losing it's shirt.

Inconsistant build quality and no ability to provide the market what it wants. I'm sick of hearing Ford Execs saying "It's a really good car, why won't anyone buy it."

Because if it's affordable, it's void of any passion or style.-Ford 500
And if it's attractive, it's too expensive- Ford Thunderbird.
Some are just total pieces of crap- Windstar

All the American companies missed a great opportunity to sell some great cars, establish some brand loyality, and inspire some dreams in the late 90s, early 2000s. With $1/gal gas and the tuner trend, we should have seen a the rebirth of a horsepower war instead of just hitching their future on the sale of cheap to build, expensive selling, SUVs.

Now, they are screwed.
 
Calabrio said:
And this is another reason why Ford is losing it's shirt.

Inconsistant build quality and no ability to provide the market what it wants. I'm sick of hearing Ford Execs saying "It's a really good car, why won't anyone buy it."

Because if it's affordable, it's void of any passion or style.-Ford 500
And if it's attractive, it's too expensive- Ford Thunderbird.
Some are just total pieces of crap- Windstar
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WELL SAID!!!

I just don't like going to the Lincoln showroom anymore to see gussied up FWD stuff. And even that is right next to the Mercury version of the car which for the life of me I still can't figure out. The Zephyr is already 3-4 beats behind, say, the Acura TL and I would bet a month's pay it will never catch up. Ford would say, "so what? we're not aiming at them" And therein lies the problem. They're choking on Navigators and Aviators and the last few guys lining up for Town Cars.

I am under 40 (barely), and have cash in hand and want to remain loyal but they are doing everything to push me/us away.

Oh well. I'll enjoy my '03 LS for a couple more years.
 
I like Mercury, Personally I think they have better looking cars then ford or Lincoln. But I think Mercury needs to be the Lincoln of Ford and Lincoln needs to be the Ford of Jaguar. Keep Aston Martins the sexiest cars on earth, land rovers for luxury SUVs, and let mazada go all out with rotatry engines. But please don't take the V8 out of the future for Lincoln.
 
umh a twin turbo v6 would be a blast. especially for the tuner crowd. If our ls's had a decent ttv6 (regardless of factory HP) we'd have all sorts of members in the 13s, 12s, maybe even 11s. A 3.5L V6 is decent size to provide torque before the turbo spools up so I really have NO idea what everybody is whining about.
 
I dont understand the whining either. Doesnt the Altima and Maxima have a 3.5L in them? Those cars keep pretty close to a stock LS V8 already. There is plenty to be done with a V6 as long as the car is tuner friendly.
 
beaups said:
umh a twin turbo v6 would be a blast. especially for the tuner crowd. If our ls's had a decent ttv6 (regardless of factory HP) we'd have all sorts of members in the 13s, 12s, maybe even 11s. A 3.5L V6 is decent size to provide torque before the turbo spools up so I really have NO idea what everybody is whining about.
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I have some idea of why people are whining........some of us like the fact that american car companies have religiously produced high HP V8 cars of all sorts and now they are leaning away from that. I understand with the price of gas soaring through the roof its hard to fill your gas tank, but give the people a choice. Lincoln did it with the LS just the right way. If you didn't want a V8 then you had the choice of the V6. I say taking away the V8 is a huge mistake. BMW Still produces the 7-series with a monster V8 and people are still buying them like crazy. Same with the Corvette and Mustangs, they still sell. I don't think the problem is that people don't want the V8's anymore I think it's FLM's lack of creativity in the styling of their cars.
 
Its not only about if its as powerful or as fast. Some of us just like V-8s moving us around, we're old school, getting older. Actually as hp comes back so did the V-8 in many cases, but not in as many cars as we would like, certainly not the norm.
 
But our V8's were never very powerful. In fact, many of the newer 3.5L cars out there (infinity, lexus) are cranking out over 300HP all motor.

Although, reading that press release does NOT lead me to believe we'll see a TT anyhow, just a slight tune difference to give the Lincoln model a slight HP edge...just like they did w/the 3.0 LS's. Upping the HP claims are very popular these days (i'd bet infiniti and nissan have 10 different ratings on their 3.5). I'd love to see a TT, but highly doubt it.
 
beaups said:
But our V8's were never very powerful. In fact, many of the newer 3.5L cars out there (infinity, lexus) are cranking out over 300HP all motor.

Although, reading that press release does NOT lead me to believe we'll see a TT anyhow, just a slight tune difference to give the Lincoln model a slight HP edge...just like they did w/the 3.0 LS's. Upping the HP claims are very popular these days (i'd bet infiniti and nissan have 10 different ratings on their 3.5). I'd love to see a TT, but highly doubt it.
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I agree. Take the current 3.0 V6, as you go from Taurus to LS to S-Type the power gradually increases to accomodate the "premium" brands.
 
I agree that a lot of the 3.5's that are being produced are powerful, maybe not 300 hp all motor but they are powerful.

I guess I agree that some of us are old school and just like the V8. I know our V8's have not been the most powerful, but there is just something about one that makes the driving expierence a little better IMO. I don't know if it is the torque or the sound, but there is just something different.

I have only owned 2 other V8 products before my LS, one that was a built mustang and the other was a Caprice, and also drive a V8 Ford product for work, and they all have been a blast to drive. I just think american car companies should worry less about what motor they are going to put in a car and concentrate on styling a little more.
 
I do like the v8 badge too....however having driven turbo cars a 3.5TT would be an absolute blast! However, I'd be SHOCKED to see that happen here and I think reading into that PR that way is a little overoptomistic. But I'll keep my fingers crossed.
 
8, 6, it doesn't matter to me per se but I guarantee that Ford will be a few CIDs and HPs behind **ALL** other sixes in the market. And have some marketing data to support it. And the spread between Ford-Merc-Linoln won't be great enough to justify.
 
Lincoln needs to decide where it wants to go; either the DCX route with the Chrysler 300, RWD, Big V-8, "American" or the route which Caddy has taken to try and pursue BMW.

I guess they've decided they want to take the Acura route, unfortunately. I know they hinted on their website the possibility of a 360 hp twin turbo, so maybe the MKS could still work as;

a) ~ 270+ hp base Duratec 35 (this they can easily do as the current Duratec is rated at 265 hp on 87 octane)

b) 360 hp twin turbo
 
If that Lincoln pushes 300horsepower while getting 32 mpg on the highway, you might find it's a winner.

Unfortunately, it'll just be thirsty six cylinder, the suspension won't handle well enough to make it a true sport sedan, and it'll fail on all levels.
 
Calabrio said:
If that Lincoln pushes 300horsepower while getting 32 mpg on the highway, you might find it's a winner.

Unfortunately, it'll just be thirsty six cylinder, the suspension won't handle well enough to make it a true sport sedan, and it'll fail on all levels.
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Yeah, Lincoln will inevitable screw it all up. sigh.
 
Twin turbos are making a comeback. The new BMW 3 Series coupe will offer a twin turbo V6. First gas powered turbo BMW offered in the states in at least 2-3 decades
 
A V6 turbo has alot of potential. One of the baddest production cars ever made, the Grand National, was a normal V6 with a turbo strapped on. Here is an awesome video to watch. The sound that a Grand National makes is just awesome, similiar to the Lightning.
http://members.shaw.ca/nkenv/Turbo-T_Viper.wmv
 
Ford has been "hinting at" a 3.5 Duratec for about 10 years now. They still have yet to actually produce it. Sure they're saying it will be in the MKZ, but they said the same about the 4.4 V8 in the MKS until today.

They'll make a turbocharged V6 at around the same time the sun turns into a red giant and engulfs the Earth.

I don't care about Ford anymore. They are screwing up and making decisions that are so monumentally stupid, it really looks like they're deliberately trying to go under.
 
segxr7 said:
Ford has been "hinting at" a 3.5 Duratec for about 10 years now. They still have yet to actually produce it. Sure they're saying it will be in the MKZ, but they said the same about the 4.4 V8 in the MKS until today.

They'll make a turbocharged V6 at around the same time the sun turns into a red giant and engulfs the Earth.

I don't care about Ford anymore. They are screwing up and making decisions that are so monumentally stupid, it really looks like they're deliberately trying to go under.
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But it's already out in the MKZ. See my thread in the Zephyr Forum (which ought to be retitled MKZ :) ) on the Edmunds article in which they test drive the MKZ. They say the new engine with the new tranny, make the MKZ like a whole new car. 0-60 in 6.x seconds.

-New engine loves to rev
-Not just a Fusion in a zoot suit
-Six-year/70,000-mile powertrain warranty
-Lincoln now has a true entry-level luxury contender
-20 gallon fuel tank
-0-60mph in mid-6 seconds

In the transition from Zephyr to MKZ, the 3.5-liter replaces the Duratec. This change brings an additional 42 horses and 44 pound-feet of torque, yielding totals of 263 hp at 6250 rpm and 249 lb-ft at 4500 rpm. Stab the accelerator and the 20-percent power gain makes itself known. Thrust comes on smoothly, and builds intensely as the tachometer swings past 4000. Unlike the Duratec, the 3.5-liter likes to rev. There's no harshness. No thrash. No clatter. Just plenty of power and a purposeful growl that is loud enough to add some aural thrill to the acceleration, but not so loud that it detracts from the MKZ's luxurious intentions.
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another excerpt from the Edmunds MKZ article.

When pressed to reveal more about future variants on the 3.5-liter, Ford engineer McCarthy told us to expect versions featuring direct-injection, turbocharging and hybrid technologies in displacements ranging from 3.0 to 4.0 liters. He also acknowledged that the engine could easily be adapted to a rear-wheel-drive configuration.
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As someone mentioned above, the new BMW 335i will get a twin turbocharged inline-6, but it's hardly a flagship sedan though....
 
yea that is good that the MKZ is now a better car but i have driven v6TT and its not the same as a V8 i mean just having that extra power when you are already cruising at 70 and now you still have more umpfff to go cant be replaced plus its a prestige "image" issue as well - if you can afford a big block V8 like a 7 series then that tells alot about you - ford just want to sell cars but they forget that peaple buy cars cuz they have a image of themselfes and peaple think that cars will get them closer to that image thats why ford will one day be out of busss - lexus, bmw, merc benz they all sell a image, drive thier car and your in the cream of the crop - ford now wants to make it that if you own a lincoln you cant get the cream of the crop just the crap of the cream.....

now that is just my 2 cents
 
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