LJS30
Active LVC Member
What engineering issues would you gentlemen say plague the first generation Lincoln LS?
Lincoln LS (First Gen) Design flaws
- Thread starter LJS30
- Start date
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
Exactly.
I do not own a Gen 1 (I own a Gen 2), but from what I recall, it seems that the plastic timing chain tensioners in the 3.9 V8 is the most catastrophic issue with that engine/generation. I would not say it is the most common, but it can be the biggest liability. I guess that would be an engineering issue.
I also heard that rain sensing wipers also never worked well on Gen 1's, so I guess that also could be a engineering issue.
I am sure there are more. I would love to have seen what Lincoln could have or would have fixed if there was a Gen 3 LS.
I also heard that rain sensing wipers also never worked well on Gen 1's, so I guess that also could be a engineering issue.
I am sure there are more. I would love to have seen what Lincoln could have or would have fixed if there was a Gen 3 LS.
LJS30
Active LVC Member
Do these issue exist with the same generation Navigators?
I know the two series are considered different generations, but I don't consider them to be so. All the basic hard bones are identical, even interchangeable.
The LS is basically a good car - ahead of it's time.
There are design shortcomings... the transmission is terrible, and the lack of a limited slip diff is a huge pain. There isn't a realistic fix for either. The front upper ball joints are also weak. And the seats are really uncomfortable.
If there is a shortcoming, it's that Lincoln didn't follow thru and use the improved DEW98 parts that were coming out of Jaguar. The front suspension was improved, but we didn't get it. Other parts were strengthened and we didn't get any of them.
Then there is the sports suspension that never showed up, and the cancelled supercharged engine. Shown but never delivered. Both to be offered on the Thunderbird as well (mentioned in press interviews).
The platform was also intended for the Mustang but after a long study of cost and market factors, the idea was dropped. Too bad, because that would have made for a world-class Mustang at last. Even the 2015 doesn't have as good a suspension as this - or as many lightweight parts.
I see parallels of what could have been to the story of the Nissan/Infiniti FM platform. The first generation FM, used in the first G35 (and 350Z and FX35), was very similar to the LS' platform. Lots of aluminum everywhere, very close design in the front suspension. The second generation, which bred the G37, M37, and eventually the GT-R, was a straightforward evolution of the same design, improved and strengthened all around.
To make a Mustang out of the DEW98, the platform would have required some rework similarly to how the FM evolved for it's 2nd generation.
And remember that Jacques Nasser had other plans for the DEW98, a smaller version as well as a larger version under a flagship. Instead, little Billy Ford, who thought he could run the company, cancelled anything and everything "Nasser".
If Ford had continued to use the DEW98 platform (which in aluminized form is still used by Jaguar), it might have evolved into a credible competitor to GM's Alpha (ATS, CTS, and in 2016 the Camaro). Imagine that.
The LS is basically a good car - ahead of it's time.
There are design shortcomings... the transmission is terrible, and the lack of a limited slip diff is a huge pain. There isn't a realistic fix for either. The front upper ball joints are also weak. And the seats are really uncomfortable.
If there is a shortcoming, it's that Lincoln didn't follow thru and use the improved DEW98 parts that were coming out of Jaguar. The front suspension was improved, but we didn't get it. Other parts were strengthened and we didn't get any of them.
Then there is the sports suspension that never showed up, and the cancelled supercharged engine. Shown but never delivered. Both to be offered on the Thunderbird as well (mentioned in press interviews).
The platform was also intended for the Mustang but after a long study of cost and market factors, the idea was dropped. Too bad, because that would have made for a world-class Mustang at last. Even the 2015 doesn't have as good a suspension as this - or as many lightweight parts.
I see parallels of what could have been to the story of the Nissan/Infiniti FM platform. The first generation FM, used in the first G35 (and 350Z and FX35), was very similar to the LS' platform. Lots of aluminum everywhere, very close design in the front suspension. The second generation, which bred the G37, M37, and eventually the GT-R, was a straightforward evolution of the same design, improved and strengthened all around.
To make a Mustang out of the DEW98, the platform would have required some rework similarly to how the FM evolved for it's 2nd generation.
And remember that Jacques Nasser had other plans for the DEW98, a smaller version as well as a larger version under a flagship. Instead, little Billy Ford, who thought he could run the company, cancelled anything and everything "Nasser".
If Ford had continued to use the DEW98 platform (which in aluminized form is still used by Jaguar), it might have evolved into a credible competitor to GM's Alpha (ATS, CTS, and in 2016 the Camaro). Imagine that.
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
There is almost nothing shared between the LS and any other Lincoln (that's one reason it is so hard to get many of the parts.)
LJS30
Active LVC Member
So that is a flaw in and of itself.
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
You can look at it either way. Apparently, Ford looked at your way. That's why Lincoln has only rebadged Fords now, and none of them interest me. Why do something new, when you can just keep doing the same old thing over and over...
tamaraclvc
LVC Member
I owned a 2000 LS V6 from 2002 to 2009. My favorite feature was the rain-sensing wipers which worked flawlessly during the 7 years I had the car.
I purchased my 2006 LS V8 in 2009 and my favorite feature on the car is the backup sensors! Sure miss the rain-sensing wipers that were removed from the Gen2 LS's. The reliability of the '06 over the '00 is huge. I get the same MPH with the V8 that I got with the V6.
Whoa. Yours wouldn't happen to be the one I see on autotrader all the time for $20k+?
tamaraclvc
LVC Member
Yes! That's my baby! Here's the scoop....I placed an "Until Sold" ad for $60.00 about 2 years ago, in anticipation of knowing that some day I would want to sell the LS. That day is not here yet.....unless someone pays me the asking price. That same ad now costs $100.00.
I was originally interested in the beautifully designed (my opinion) new MKZ Hybrid and then along came the MKC. Both cars had a long overdue launch!
I got many responses to my ad......mostly to ask if the price was a typo! Ha! Ha!
Regards, Lawrence
FDR
Dedicated LVC Member
What's not realistic about swapping diffs with a MkVIII or Cobra? And they definitely made a sport suspension, unless all us Sport owners are under the placebo effect from not having chrome on our bumpers
Anyway, the 1st gen is lacking a sufficient armrest/glovebox. It's the cost of having a driveshaft tunnel, low seats, and a manual handbrake (or at least I keep telling myself that)
tamaraclvc
LVC Member
I can't sell it now! I lost one of my center hub caps and am trying to find a replacement....not from the dealer.......checked eBay! NOTE: The rims are dual-spoke design from the 2004-5 LS MY.
The photos show what the missing caps look like. The 2nd one was taken after I wiped it clean from dust and the reflection causes a distortion. Should have left it dirty. Oh well!
All suggestion are welcome!
Easier said than done!
The planned and never delivered Thunderbird/LS sport suspension option consisted of Brembos, Bilsteins, and different rate springs. According to an interview in the press with the product planner at the time. Also, I was at the press launch in Detroit many years ago and talked to the product team... they had all kinds of big plans for this platform, all of which went down the drain only a few years later. Quality was a problem, cost was a problem, and Ford's leadership was a problem after Jacques was tossed out. He owned the plans.
Those aren't the stock center caps for those wheels. The finish on the wheel also looks different than stock.
Didn't I tell you www.raintracker.com has your answer?? Drive to San Diego and I'll even help you with the install!!
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
are your serious, with 1st gens its about as realistic as possible as in just get a LSD of your choice and install it (or pay to have it installed) yes its just silly that it didn't come with one or offered as an option, but its not really hard or expensive to do. hell its really not a whole lot harder to do with a 2nd gen... the parts list is just a little more expensive as you also need a 1st gen carrier and halfshafts. which again is not too hard to find, junk yards have them all the time...
now thats really a whole different story when you have to design and build one off parts like the mount itself then have a custom driveshaft made. you're talking about a lot more work and money there. but yes, still not impossible. however I thought a cobra diff wouldn't work because of the spline difference... and thats why the mark diff was used. I could be wrong though since its been a few years since I have really read through those threads.
but, swapping diffs is really only needed for doing gears, you can use a 8.8" LSD in a LS's 8.0 carrier (1st gen) just fine if you stick to LS gear ratios.
the low seats and a driveshaft tunnel have no real effect on how terrible the center console space is, its all due to the hand brake... the 2nd gen center console is a night and day difference with no shortage in storage space...
this was no question an engineering flaw, it has nothing to do with the suppliers or bean counters changing the parts or materials used causing earlier failure. it was just a bad design, its like the engineer that designed the original center console was like" ok all i need is a place to put one pack of smokes and three condoms, ok done what's next..." and don't get me started again on those damn ninja cup holders. I would like to have seen one more change to the 2nd gen center console to make it a little bit better, my only beef with it is that the cup holders are just a little too close to each other (yes no where near as bad as a 1st gen lol) and while two large drinks can fit side by side, the tops touch and every time one is picked up it pulls the lid off of the other one. my fix was to cut a round .5" thick spacer to stick into the forward cup holder (which is always the drivers cup in my car...) so the tops dont touch and while driving all i have to do is puck up the cup to take a drink with out having to worry about spilling the other drink.
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
I was wondering about that... my 03 has the same style wheel but the center caps have small holes that you can see the lugnuts through...
NickT88LSC
Dedicated LVC Member
I have never had any of those issues yet, 125,00 ,miles am I just lucky???? Only DCCV valve was replaced at 28,000 miles by the dealer when I received the car. Last week was the first time I have done ball joint/control arm. I know it may be coming but I would not consider these repairs on a 12 year old car with 125,000 miles to be excessive???
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
if you have only had one of those six things go wrong, then I would say yes! lol
hell I don't have the hyd fan and I still had three out of the five things go wrong (haven't replaced the DCCV or degas yet (knocks on wood*))
tamaraclvc
LVC Member
Thanks Mike! The offer is tempting! I can't believe it's been 5-1/2 years since purchased it!
tamaraclvc
LVC Member
Yes! The rims are chrome-plated! I got them on eBay from Capital Original Wheels in Gardena, CA and they were equipped with those caps.