I have the True Rev induction, and the SCT Flasher. I am replacing the True Rev with the K&N. I have Magnaflow mufflers and tips and will replace them with the cat back when it is available. I like to modify my car and I spend a lot of money on it. What's yer beef?Fla02LS said:
LSK 03+ K&N Intake systems
- Thread starter theunclesam
- Start date
Amoxi
Active LVC Member
jpitt said:
Yes I realize it's the same engine. I'm one of the first to bite the bullet and test fit the kit on the LS but it doesn't matter. The cert goes with the car, not the engine. Again, I've emailed K&N and asked about it so it's not like I'm making this up just to have something to post about.
mharrison
Dedicated LVC Member
What I like to see on product claims is a car with a stock piece where "whizbang gizmo 01" will go, put on the dyno and baselined.
Then the stock piece removed and replaced with "whizbang gizmo 01" and put on the dyno again.
These numbers tell a great deal about what performance gains to expect.
Apples and apples so to speak.
As to the value of mods. If someone is willing to spend $1000 to buy "whizbang gizmo 01" and is happy with the performance gain....then that is what it is worth to them.
Then the stock piece removed and replaced with "whizbang gizmo 01" and put on the dyno again.
These numbers tell a great deal about what performance gains to expect.
Apples and apples so to speak.
As to the value of mods. If someone is willing to spend $1000 to buy "whizbang gizmo 01" and is happy with the performance gain....then that is what it is worth to them.
jolinc01
Dedicated LVC Member
If I had the money to spend on my car I would buy all the performance parts available. I don't care if it cost $3000 for 30 hp it's well worth it in our cars with the very small performance aftermarket world we have. I guess to each his own tho.
TheRebel
Dedicated LVC Member
jolinc01 said:
I agree but I would go ahead and splurge on getting a 4.6 or 5.4 under the hood somehow. I know someone could figure it out if the funds allowed it. But then again I might just sell the LS and buy a Jag (might be more cost effective) if the funds allowed it. In the meantime I think the K&N is the way to go and will be my next purchase.
Virginia Donkey
Active LVC Member
I would think that a drop in K&N would give the same amount of power as any of those cone filter kits and here is why....
1)the filtering surface area of the cone is pretty much the same, maybe even less than the panel filter.
2)the stock airbox has a long slot opening at the bottom and a round opening at the fender hole so it can get plenty of air, even fresh cold air from the round hole, where the cone filter would see mostly underhood air.
3) if airflow was the biggest restriction against the panel filter in the stock airbox, the bottom of the airbox can be cut to correct this as mentioned already.
so, imho, you can spend $40 for a drop in K&N and have the same performance boost as the $135+ filter kits.
until someone can post info showing otherwise, i'll keep the price difference and have a lot of cold beer
Donkey out
1)the filtering surface area of the cone is pretty much the same, maybe even less than the panel filter.
2)the stock airbox has a long slot opening at the bottom and a round opening at the fender hole so it can get plenty of air, even fresh cold air from the round hole, where the cone filter would see mostly underhood air.
3) if airflow was the biggest restriction against the panel filter in the stock airbox, the bottom of the airbox can be cut to correct this as mentioned already.
so, imho, you can spend $40 for a drop in K&N and have the same performance boost as the $135+ filter kits.
until someone can post info showing otherwise, i'll keep the price difference and have a lot of cold beer
Donkey out
G
GrayGhost1
Guest
You have got to be kidding me, right? Replacing the stock paper filter with a K&N flat filter should not give you a huge increase in power. A few HP at MOST. The object is to force induce air to the throttle body. Just by adding a K&N regular filter isn't going to do that simply because you still have the stock air box. The KKM and K&N units have a tappered ventura that helps force air into the intake. The regular intake doesn't do this.Virginia Donkey said:
As for a dyno run, K&N has already done that with a stock run and then with the K&N 53 series induction kit. As you can see 15+ HP is nothing to sneeze at. Just a reminder, the T-Bird has the same engine as the LS.
mharrison
Dedicated LVC Member
Oh I agree on the mods. I bought a programmer for $300 and tuned my S-10 V6 Blazer, and I can assure you that nobody but a gearhead would notice the difference. I loved it! Believe it or not, it actually IMPROVED my gas mileage!
I just don't understand giving somebody a hard time over spending money on a mod that they are happy with.
.........Unless maybe you're married to them! My wife keeps telling me that it's OK for her to do that!
I just don't understand giving somebody a hard time over spending money on a mod that they are happy with.
.........Unless maybe you're married to them! My wife keeps telling me that it's OK for her to do that!
mharrison
Dedicated LVC Member
Once again Ken steps up to the plate swinging a Dyno chart!
Looks like that one is outahere..... <GRIN>
Looks like that one is outahere..... <GRIN>
Virginia Donkey
Active LVC Member
Grayghost-
Thats the kind of info I was looking for! Thanks for putting the dyno sheet up. I will take that kind of owning anytime.
I can see where the K&N filter kit would work, but what about the KKM kit? it just looks like a cone filter with the extension to accept the sensor. and the KKM filter is exposed to a lot more hot engine air
and I have the V6, and I know I wouldn't see +15 hp, what are the estimates for that engine?
Thats the kind of info I was looking for! Thanks for putting the dyno sheet up. I will take that kind of owning anytime.
I can see where the K&N filter kit would work, but what about the KKM kit? it just looks like a cone filter with the extension to accept the sensor. and the KKM filter is exposed to a lot more hot engine air
and I have the V6, and I know I wouldn't see +15 hp, what are the estimates for that engine?
G
GrayGhost1
Guest
I think I know what you are asking. If you have ever dyno'd a car you know it is stationary and not much air is moving around the car if any. The dyno shop we went to used a big 48" industrial fan to blow on the motor while the dyno was taken place. They also had a squirrel cage type of fan to simulate air velocity as the car is moving. However, this really isn't a real world scenario. So, with that being said the engine is getting mighty warm after 3 runs. Most of the time the first run is your best with the third run not being as good. So, I'd say that the issue you are seeing is the same situation. The intake is probably taking in hot air from under the car since it is stationary.beaups said:
I hope that was clear as mud!
I know that my car was pretty warm after 3 runs even with fans blowing on the motor. I have been told by some local racing guys that your best option is to take it to the track since this would be more like real conditions and back into the number using the time slips. Of course, we haven't done that.
G
GrayGhost1
Guest
We have not dyno'd the V6 KKM unit for the 03 and up LS's. It was just introduced by KKM about a month and a half ago. So, I can't say with a definite answer and say it would be an "X" horsepower increase. However, Warren at KKM says that the numbers for the V6 version should be the same for the V8. We need to dyno it to be sure but from the customers that have bought the unit have responded that their "butt" dyno is telling them there is a definite increase.Virginia Donkey said:
Anyone in the Knoxville area with an 03 and up V6 LS want to do some dyno runs with the KKM unit? We'll pay for the dyno and let you have the KKM unit afterwards!
Virginia Donkey
Active LVC Member
sorry I don't live close to you or I would guinea pig.
If you have any connections in the Richmond, VA area let me know.
If you have any connections in the Richmond, VA area let me know.
Your like a politician putting some mumble jumble together to back your claim up. As far as your dyno's, your comparing two different engines with totally different specs and ratings. As someone has also stated, unless you have a baseline line at that same exact time you do a modded dyno run then you have nothing to go on. Your trying to compare a '01 rwhp dyno run to a '03 factory crank hp rating, thats a bogus why to make a claim. Put a stock car on a dyno, run it. Put whatever crap you want on, run it. Compare the two. Thats the only way to make a claim as to an improvement in performance. Any other way is crap. On to the k&n claims you posted. According to their own words the filter kit gives 15 hp, a filter alone gives 4 hp. So the tubing gives 11 hp? Possible. Still no sure dyno test with just a filter, you notice they didnt do that. They also didnt post the before and after torque specs. As i stated before, its torque that gets you off the line quicker. Horsepower gains dont add up like torque gains do. But i'll be willing to bet all these non K&N setups using kkm or whatever are getting less than 15 hp. Thats just not impressive. Dont get me wrong, i am not saying that this stuff doesnt do anything, it just isnt all its hyped up to be. And im my own opinion not worth the money. And so far there has been no solid numbers to prove anything other K&N's testing of their kit on a T-bird mind you...not an LS. A stock '03 T-bird is faster by 2 tenths over the LS according to factory 1/4 mi. times. Even with that 15 hp gain that would only bring a '03 V8 1/4 mi. time from 15.2 to 14.9(calculated estimate). So then that means $169 can take the LS to sub 15 sec. times and about 2 mph quicker in a 1/4 mi. "theoretically". Again, if your at the track with your car where a 15.1 gets a paycheck over a 15.2 time then every little bit counts, but for everyday driving it doesnt seem worth the money.GrayGhost1 said:
TheRebel
Dedicated LVC Member
GrayGhost1 said:
What is the equation for hp by using your timeslips? I have a stock 03 and I have timeslips. We could figure out my hp and compare it to the dyno numbers you have.
02LSE96LSC91SE84TC
Dedicated LVC Member
Fla02LS, why is it so important to you to try to save people money? $20 per 1hp isn't that uncommon.
Your first post on this thread was the stock equipment would flow just as good and now your giving it credit to lower 1/4 mile times by .3. Oh yeah you said "theoretically". You call Ken the politician.
Its obvious that even if someone put you in a car before and after the mod, drove with you in the car, let you study the equipment, confirm track conditions haven't changed, make sure the car is at the same exact operating temp, provide the timeslips, you'd still argue that it wasn't worth the money. Fine don't buy one. But many will and are more than happy with the hp gain, reduced ETs, and yes the extra kick it gives even on a daily basis.
You naysay all hp improvements, you fell yours is best left alone fine, leave it alone. You don't drag your car, fine, fine, good for you. Seems to me you live life a little in fear with your posts, Florida must suck to live in.
Your first post on this thread was the stock equipment would flow just as good and now your giving it credit to lower 1/4 mile times by .3. Oh yeah you said "theoretically". You call Ken the politician.
Its obvious that even if someone put you in a car before and after the mod, drove with you in the car, let you study the equipment, confirm track conditions haven't changed, make sure the car is at the same exact operating temp, provide the timeslips, you'd still argue that it wasn't worth the money. Fine don't buy one. But many will and are more than happy with the hp gain, reduced ETs, and yes the extra kick it gives even on a daily basis.
You naysay all hp improvements, you fell yours is best left alone fine, leave it alone. You don't drag your car, fine, fine, good for you. Seems to me you live life a little in fear with your posts, Florida must suck to live in.
Amoxi
Active LVC Member
BTW, shaving off 1sec of your 1/4mi is quite a bit and nothing trivial like you're making it out to be. Not saying an intake and exhaust'll do it, but spending a decent chunk of change is on par for the performance gain.
Rodewaryer
Dedicated LVC Member
A bit of an old subject I suppose, but according to this thread no one has 'actually' installed a K&N Aircharger on an LS. I saw one on a T-bird but don't remember the engine bay intimately enough to know for certain how close the layout is.
Anyone know how much adapting is necessary to make the T-bird kit fit the LS?
Anyone know how much adapting is necessary to make the T-bird kit fit the LS?
G
GrayGhost1
Guest
The K&N intake kit will fit the LS directly without any modification. The engine bay in the T-Bird is the exact same as the LS.Rodewaryer said:
Rodewaryer
Dedicated LVC Member
You guys are alright, thanks a lot for the verification.....like my mind wasn't made up already.....
