Magnaflow Cats Problem - Need Help

myfirstlincoln

myfirstlincoln

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So my 2003 Lincoln has gone through a rejuvenation period over the last year or so.

Anyway, I also decided to order the magnaflow direct fit cat system. I've included a pic. So here is the story and hopefully this makes sense:
23936.jpg
I took the system to mechanic to have it installed. He called me and said there was an issue - I'm going to explain this to the best of my ability and hopefully someone can offer some ideas/suggestions. Basically what seems to be happening is that the flange on the new system (which bolts to the old manifold) is too large and when pushed all the way up, sits flush with the flare. On the old system (which was already out of the car) the flange sits about .5 inches below the flare itself (when pushed all the way up) so when it bolts to the manifold, it kinda pulls it/pinches it. The flange on the Magnaflow system has a lot of play (as it is much looser around the pipe) where the flange on the stock system freely moves on the pipe, but is much tighter.

Anyway, I called magnaflow and told them that either the diameter of the flange is too wide so it can ride all the way up the pipe and sit flush with the flare or the flare doesn't start soon enough/isn't large enough. They sent me the pics of the dimensions (which I have included). My mechanic looked at the pics and measured the system I have and he basically said they were fairly accurate. He did say the flare was slightly smaller than the dimensions provided and the flange was slightly larger than the dimensions provided, but not by much at all. If the new system comes (which is currently shipped and on its way) and it's the same as the old system, I'm still in the same boat.

The car is basically sitting there as I wait for the new system to arrive rather than having them reinstall all the old exhaust just to remove it again. I am hoping the new system solves the problem, but to be honest, I kinda think I'm gonna run into the same problem.

If you look at the image below, I think the flange should stop where it says "0.40" but the flange is so wide around the pipe that it rides all the way up to the end of the flare.image001.jpg

Flange:

image002.jpg

If the new system shows up and I have the same problem, do you think I should just weld the flange on? Or weld something on the pipe to prevent the flange from riding up around the flare? Any other thoughts? THANKS!

image001.jpg


23936.jpg


image002.jpg
 
If it were me, in an effort to get the car done I would have cut that flange off and got a smaller flange and weld it on if what you are saying is correct. The flange usually is only slightly larger than the pipe and stops at the bottom of the ball socket on the end of the pipe when tightening, does not ride to the top of the ball socket.

myfirstlincoln said:
So my 2003 Lincoln has gone through a rejuvenation period over the last year or so.

Anyway, I also decided to order the magnaflow direct fit cat system. I've included a pic. So here is the story and hopefully this makes sense:
View attachment 828463771
I took the system to mechanic to have it installed. He called me and said there was an issue - I'm going to explain this to the best of my ability and hopefully someone can offer some ideas/suggestions. Basically what seems to be happening is that the flange on the new system (which bolts to the old manifold) is too large and when pushed all the way up, sits flush with the flare. On the old system (which was already out of the car) the flange sits about .5 inches below the flare itself (when pushed all the way up) so when it bolts to the manifold, it kinda pulls it/pinches it. The flange on the Magnaflow system has a lot of play (as it is much looser around the pipe) where the flange on the stock system freely moves on the pipe, but is much tighter.

Anyway, I called magnaflow and told them that either the diameter of the flange is too wide so it can ride all the way up the pipe and sit flush with the flare or the flare doesn't start soon enough/isn't large enough. They sent me the pics of the dimensions (which I have included). My mechanic looked at the pics and measured the system I have and he basically said they were fairly accurate. He did say the flare was slightly smaller than the dimensions provided and the flange was slightly larger than the dimensions provided, but not by much at all. If the new system comes (which is currently shipped and on its way) and it's the same as the old system, I'm still in the same boat.

The car is basically sitting there as I wait for the new system to arrive rather than having them reinstall all the old exhaust just to remove it again. I am hoping the new system solves the problem, but to be honest, I kinda think I'm gonna run into the same problem.

If you look at the image below, I think the flange should stop where it says "0.40" but the flange is so wide around the pipe that it rides all the way up to the end of the flare.View attachment 828463770

Flange:

View attachment 828463772

If the new system shows up and I have the same problem, do you think I should just weld the flange on? Or weld something on the pipe to prevent the flange from riding up around the flare? Any other thoughts? THANKS!
Click to expand...
 
I had the exact same kit installed maybe 4 months ago, never ran into this issue, that was on a 2006 but that shouldn't matter. The only issue I had was the Y pipe with the third cat. My LS required more of an actual Y shape vs the two 90° bends shown in the picture. This wasn't a very big issuse as I ended up just cutting out a 3rd cat all together.

I do remember my flanges were lose fitting around the pipe, but I never got to see how the old system flanges fit so I couldn't compare it. I have a shop that I work with that does the majority of my work at a really good rate so I can't speak first hand on how the instalation went. I'll give them a call tomorrow and see if they can offer any insight on how the flange fit was. They did mention they had to get different flange bolts if I remember correctly.
 
Chris do you have a pic of your set-up? I was considering ditching the third cat as well, but obviously need to solve this issue first.

If you could call your shop, that would be great. I greatly appreciate it.
 
You guys with the "third cat" (which is actually a crossover of sorts)....... Neither of my '06's have that piece. It's the same setup as the '00; dual pipes to an "H" pipe behind the diff. My wife's was an 11/05 build and mine was 3/06 (last month of production) build.

I wonder why the difference......
 
LS4me said:
You guts with the "third cat" (which is actually a crossover of sorts)....... Neither of my '06's have that piece. It's the same setup as the '00; dual pipes to an "H" pipe behind the diff. My wife's was an 11/05 build and mine was 3/06 (last month of production) build.

I wonder why the difference......
Click to expand...

If they were able to make a change elsewhere in the system to be able to meet emissions without the third cat, they would have been able to drop that very expensive part off the car without lowering the sales price. Could be anything, but if you really want to know you need to compare part numbers for the cam, intake, heads and exhaust system parts prior to the third cat. It could even be something as simple as a programming change that allowed them to get the emissions tighter, or the EPA may even have loosened the emissions specs.
 
Telco said:
If they were able to make a change elsewhere in the system to be able to meet emissions without the third cat, they would have been able to drop that very expensive part off the car without lowering the sales price. Could be anything, but if you really want to know you need to compare part numbers for the cam, intake, heads and exhaust system parts prior to the third cat. It could even be something as simple as a programming change that allowed them to get the emissions tighter, or the EPA may even have loosened the emissions specs.
Click to expand...

It's NOT a catalytic converter. It's a crossover of sorts; as it's not a true crossover.

Fat chance of THAT happening!!!!
 
A good muffler shop with a pro welder could fix all these problems, even build any "H" or "Y" pipe you need! Weld loose parts, won't need to cut off until system replaced! Different flanges are available with different seals & bolts also.
 
Sorry it took so long, my garage is also the preferred tow service in it's county and with this snow they have been busy. He got back to me today and said he didn't have any issues with the flange, other than one of my bolts was rusted and he replaced it. Sorry I am not of better help. Like I said, my issue was the 3rd section. In the picture above there are two 90's that bring the pipes inline, when what my car needed was more of a Y. So he made me that section and I have the original piece in the closet here.

As for the 3rd cat debate.

DSC_7563.jpg

It's most definitely a cat.

DSC_7563.jpg
 
Since I have recently had this done as well, the only issues I can recall the exhaust shop saying to me were that they needed new manifold bolts, needed new o2 sensors (mine were rusted/heat welded on) and that they needed different gaskets for the flanges other than what was on the car. But they completed mine same day.
 
Thanks for the input everyone!

Unfortunately (with Thanksgiving and the part coming from Cali) I won't get the new system until Friday, which will hopefully resolve the situation but I am kinda pessimistic. I am just totally confused as to why most of you had no problems (or very minor issues), but it appears I'll need to do a bit of custom fabrication to get it to work on my car...I'll keep you updated.
 
Upstairs Chris said:
It's most definitely a cat.
Click to expand...

And yet the all the O2 sensors are prior to this piece. Were that a true cat there would need to be some way to monitor the efficiency of that part for emissions. Like I was told by one of the engineers, it's a crossover of sorts; i.e. not a true crossover. Also, on that system there is no "H" pipe in the system. There needs to be some sort of, for lack of a better term, exhaust transfer between sides to pass emission standards. Additionally, what did he do with the piece? If he just threw if in the trash there is NO WAY it's a cat as the precious metals bonded to the internals are worth big bucks!!
 
Someone else on here installed Magnaflow cats and had a similar problem IIRC.
 
I have a 2005 ls with a complete system cats back and ran into two problems , the cats fitting the manifolds and the system fitting tight up under the tunnel and brace it took a custom fabrication cutting and welding to make the system fit, t now is fully welded with no clamps and sounds great. Also my kit provided a h pipe with no resonators.
 
mcaccamise
When you say "the cats fitting the manifolds" did you have the same problem I described or something different? Do you remember how you resolved that issue?
 
LS4me said:
And yet the all the O2 sensors are prior to this piece. Were that a true cat there would need to be some way to monitor the efficiency of that part for emissions. Like I was told by one of the engineers, it's a crossover of sorts; i.e. not a true crossover. Also, on that system there is no "H" pipe in the system. There needs to be some sort of, for lack of a better term, exhaust transfer between sides to pass emission standards. Additionally, what did he do with the piece? If he just threw if in the trash there is NO WAY it's a cat as the precious metals bonded to the internals are worth big bucks!!
Click to expand...

It's a cat hombre, I know there is no O2 senor after this one, but it has the exact same insides as the other two cats that came with it. It's a cat, it's not needed whatsoever, but it's still a cat. No, he didn't just throw it away. I have it. What kind of mechanic would that be. I took that picture right before I posted it.
 
So got the new cats in the mail today and dropped them off. Unfortunately they ran into the same problem. I'm starting to think it's a combo of laziness (from my mechanic) and parts that don't fit very well. I'll probably take it to a shop that is willing to fix the problem/can do some minor fab work for the exhaust. Regardless, very disappointing from Magnaflow. I realize a direct fit kit won't be perfect and will require some minor adjustments but this seems more than that.
 
Its a cat, but its not used for emission control (unless it's a California Emission car). When I had my exhaust done, they let me get up underneath there and there was a plaque riveted to the piece in question that says "Not Used for Emission Control."
 
LSter said:
When I had my exhaust done, they let me get up underneath there and there was a plaque riveted to the piece in question that says "Not Used for Emission Control."
Click to expand...

interesting, my car never had such a plaque.

if it is a cat aka Catalytic converter, how is that not controlling emissions? what is it converting then?
 
Kinda an update

Perhaps someone could chime in who has a 2003 LS and used the Magnaflow cat system.

I received the new (replacement) Magnaflow system and ran into the same problem (which I assumed would happen). I plan to take it to a shop that specializes in exhaust, but I had a few questions before I did (mostly out of curiosity) and because if I don't know something and can't figure it out, it drives me nuts. This whole exhaust thing has been annoying me for a couple weeks now.

Do the 03 LSes have different exhaust manifolds than the 06 LSes??

Here is why I ask.... When searching ebay for exhaust manifolds, some state that they ONLY fit 05&06, but won't fit 03
manifold2.jpg

At this point, my curiously had piqued and a little more research which only confused me further. When going on FordParts.com to check part numbers, the part numbers appear the same, but there is a drastic difference in price between an 03 manifold and an 06 manifold.

2003:
2003manifold.jpg

2006
2006manifold.jpg

I ask because it seems that 03's built early in the production cycle differ slightly from 03's built later in the cycle. Is it possible that I have exhaust manifolds used for a very short period of time before they changed something for later 03's and 04,05,06? Perhaps this is stupid, but is it possible I have 2002 exhaust manifolds which might explain why the magnaflow system designed for 03-06 doesn't work?

manifold2.jpg


2003manifold.jpg


2006manifold.jpg
 
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