Manual Transmission drivers - help!

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TerryinNC

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I've been chasing a serious bucking problem for several months (http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/forum/showthread.php?90390-The-Bucking-Problem). I've done all the obvious things, with no effect. Bought an OBD reader & downloaded Torque - some funny and some characteristic readings, but no codes or clear failures: high load calculations at fairly low MAF, rear O2 sensors hanging rich at 7-8, cylinder head temp sensor off by 34 degrees, spark advance dropping from 12 to 3 deg when clutch in, and the bucking problem characterized by the advance retarding to near 0 when happening. I was suspicious the problem was in Ford proprietary PID's that I can't see with generic reader so I broke down and took it to the dealer today. No help - their scanner finds nothing wrong.
My new suspicion is the program for the manual transmission has some weakness. I noticed my EEC has been reprogrammed to watchcode TMT0 (tag on the fender).
1. Is a cold bucking problem characteristic of MT V6's?
2. Have you had a substantial bucking problem, particularly at cold ambients?
3. Has your EEC been revised to TMT0 (2U7A-12A650- GLA)?
right fender.jpg
4. Even better yet, if you had such a problem and fixed it, I'd sure like to know how.
Thanks for your trouble. I'm really at an impasse.

right fender.jpg
 
I've had my 2000 MT since 2003 and driven it 130,000 miles. Have not experienced any bucking, have started it at -30F after sitting overnight with no problems or driveability problems. It is started many days each winter in Vermont (where the -30 occurred) and has always driven smooth. Only time I had bucking was when my coils were oil soaked but then I had a CEL and misfire codes.

Do not know the EEC code (will check next time I get a chance) but it has only been to a dealer once since I've owned it and that was not for a driveability problem so I doubt the EEC has been reprogrammed. Previous owners paperwork (not complete) does not show any dealer service for driveability problems.
 
At -30 a car starting makes a thankful sound

When was the last battery check
 
I'm actually haven't this very same issue. 2000 LS MTX. It doesn't happen all the time, but is rather sever when it does happen. I'm occasionally getting misfire codes, but not always when the bucking happens. Either way, new coils and plugs are going in next week (along with an LSD.).
 
The mystery continues. Last week the Ford tech found nothing except a P1000, monitor tests not completed. So he reset the PCM and told me to do a drive cycle. I executed it almost exactly as prescribed, and on the second time (wait 8 hrs...) It misbehaved very badly and I was hoping to finally have some data. No luck. The only stored info was 3% missing on cyl #6, AND the car has fixed itself. It is running fine! There is no problem in normal driving. I can't make it happen at all at 2000 rpm and have to be going up a grade to find it at 1500 in 5th and full throttle. I have been very careful not to do anything to confuse the issue with the dealer so I haven't opened the hood. And the weather's been unseasonably cool here which should have enhanced the problem. FM (... Magic)!!

BTW, my concern about the program update is somewhat alleviated. The tech told me there's no human decision involved - they plug in their computer and the VIN determines whether a tsb applies. (His readout confirmed I should have the GLA version.)
 
PS. Whatever was (IS) wrong with my car, the computer doesn't recognize it as a problem. Its not one of the failures the programmers have established a test and code for. The computer thinks everything's OK, but something's falling outside its performance envelope. This automatic fixing is confirmation to me the problem is with the computer and its control algorithms. I don't (yet) know what the root cause is, but the bucking is the computer's response to it.
 
Any rotten egg odors when this happens? Sounds like an intermittent coil on plug issue and if I were you, I would lift off the passenger side plenum and change all 3 coils and plugs over there. If it doesn't help, change the other 3 coils and plugs. Also check the PCV hose under the manifold while you are in there. Good luck.
 
I read your other post, sorry. I guess your coils are okay.

I almost am leaning your way with the PCM being at fault. But you need to have more data, since something is making it pull spark advance, most likely knock sensing, but could be anything. Clean your MAF wire? Do you run a K&N?
 
I changed the pcv and the hose also, and the air and gas filters. And cleaned the MAF, TPS and IAC. None has had a measurable effect. Also ran a knock test - no problem.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the PCM. I think something is wearing out and the PCM is improperly correcting for it. Or just as likely, there's a corroded connector in there somewhere. I wiggled / wiped a bunch pulling the intake so its probably not on top. I'm looking for direction.
 
TerryinNC said:
I changed the pcv and the hose also, and the air and gas filters. And cleaned the MAF, TPS and IAC. None has had a measurable effect. Also ran a knock test - no problem.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the PCM. I think something is wearing out and the PCM is improperly correcting for it. Or just as likely, there's a corroded connector in there somewhere. I wiggled / wiped a bunch pulling the intake so its probably not on top. I'm looking for direction.
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Check for broken/cracked vacuum hard lines. You will have to replace them with rubber vacuum lines if they are broken/cracked.
 
I had the exact same problem with my 2002 MTX. It was in the shop for 9 months before Ford decided to replace the vehicle under the Lemon Law. Not sure what ever became of that vehicle!?
 
Silver MTX said:
I had the exact same problem with my 2002 MTX. It was in the shop for 9 months before Ford decided to replace the vehicle under the Lemon Law. Not sure what ever became of that vehicle!?
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Interesting. I bought this in the summer of 05 from a dealer. It was a factory car. Any idea what your Vin was? This one's silver with black leather, fancy cell phone and no moon roof. ??
 
Have been planning on replacing the cops/plugs soon but the other night I realized the p.o. had broke EVERY injector clip retainer, needless to say after I pushed them all back on securely (2 for sure maybe a 3rd not connected all the way) she is running like a raped ape! I was suffering the 1500-2000 rpm stutter and the full throttle bog at 5-6k, all better now.

Sounds like you have been pretty deep under your hood so not intending to assume you hadn't checked for this, on the other hand, if not...

Edit: just realized this was a month old post, hope you have it fixed.
 
zrxinch said:
Have been planning on replacing the cops/plugs soon but the other night I realized the p.o. had broke EVERY injector clip retainer, needless to say after I pushed them all back on securely (2 for sure maybe a 3rd not connected all the way) she is running like a raped ape! I was suffering the 1500-2000 rpm stutter and the full throttle bog at 5-6k, all better now.

Sounds like you have been pretty deep under your hood so not intending to assume you hadn't checked for this, on the other hand, if not...

Edit: just realized this was a month old post, hope you have it fixed.
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Those clips are very easy to break. Just pushing them back on won't work long term. They will pop loose again. If you do it right, a plastic tie wrap on each will hold them in place.
 
I had a similar bucking problem. I replaced all 6 coils and plugs. Additionally, I had a new transmission, clutch, flex plate, slave cylinder and flywheel installed. The flywheel is a dual-mass system, and the center bearing the 2 masses rotate around was ****ed up. I believe this was causing some input shaft walk as the clutch disc would oscillate around, and could have been a source of some of the bucking/vibration.
 
QUOTE=LSinYourLS;2037318521]I had a similar bucking problem. I replaced all 6 coils and plugs. Additionally, I had a new transmission, clutch, flex plate, slave cylinder and flywheel installed. [/QUOTE]

And the problem is fixed? I certainly hope so. You are much more committed to your LS than I - that was a major investment.

My car has been running fine since the tech cleared the temporary tables and I executed the drive cycle. I hate to speculate on what the original problem was but my interpretation of the story is that something had gone bad and the PCM 'learned' some bad information. I then changed or somehow corrected the culprit but the PCM was still operating with the 'learned' data and continued misbehaving. During the second part of the drive cycle the PCM was operating on the OEM tables only and the car didn't like it, but when it stored the new data the problem was eliminated. A way to prove this theory would be to clear the temporary memory again and see if the car misbehaved doing the drive cycle - but I'm so happy to have the bucking gone I'm not going to risk another episode. But stay tuned. If the bucking returns that's the first thing I'll do.

P.S. I still find it fascinating that the advance drops to 3deg when I push the clutch in. I wonder what the program is thinking?

[
 
TerryinNC said:
P.S. I still find it fascinating that the advance drops to 3deg when I push the clutch in. I wonder what the program is thinking?
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Not sure, but it may be for the same reason GM pulls timing on shifts for their automatics. Their claim is it makes for a smoother shift, but the real reason is to keep the engine from ripping the transmission apart. Lincoln may be doing something similar, pulling power on the shift to keep the engine from burning the clutch out.
 
Telco said:
Not sure, but it may be for the same reason GM pulls timing on shifts for their automatics. Their claim is it makes for a smoother shift, but the real reason is to keep the engine from ripping the transmission apart. Lincoln may be doing something similar, pulling power on the shift to keep the engine from burning the clutch out.
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I only had 1 car with a mtx that didn't act silly at 1500rpm in 5th gear. That was a 1988 mustang GT at less than 1000 ft alt. You don't think you're driving KW 900 with a 3406 Kitty Cat do you?
 
Robot said:
I only had 1 car with a mtx that didn't act silly at 1500rpm in 5th gear. That was a 1988 mustang GT at less than 1000 ft alt. You don't think you're driving KW 900 with a 3406 Kitty Cat do you?
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I found that newer MTX vehicles are extremely easy to drive, many of the older issues have been solved with good ECM mapping.

My driveway is fairly steep with the pitch starting immediately as I pull out of the garage. In older cars I needed to feed alot of gas and feather the clutch (still do in the bikes) and then (after spinning the tires if the driveway was wet) stop at the top to check traffic without causing bucking. Now I dump the clutch with minimum throttle and both my Lincoln and 2009 Ranger will just motor up the driveway. I brake slightly (no clutch) at the top to see if traffic is coming and then just feed gas and go. Both will happily drive (though I don't) at less than 1500 rpm in 5th (the lower limit of smooth driving with heavy throttle is a little less than 1250 rpm).

Taking off on a hill without rolling use to require right foot on both brake and throttle while the left released the clutch. Now on when stopped on even the steepest hill the clutch can be slowly released with the right foot on the brake and the ECM will feed in enough power to keep he car from rolling back.

In traffic either vehicle will happily drive at less than 5mph without bucking, again almost no matter the road pitch. The way they work I still can't see getting my first non MTX, except that most RWD cars I'd like are now auto only.
 
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