Soo do you consider a Corvette a muscle car?
mark viii muscle car, how is it not??
- Thread starter Daviddc114
- Start date
Soo do you consider a Corvette a muscle car?
thaywood
Dedicated LVC Member
Nope. It's a modified GT coupe. A stock Mark VIII could not do that.
- guess its just a matter of opinion...
This is true.
slowmkviii
Dedicated LVC Member
No a Corvette is not a muscle car
philly0420
Dedicated LVC Member
I would think that on down the road they will be considered muscle cars. Back in the day there were all kinds of cars that weren't muscle cars and now they are. I call mine a sleeper or maybe a modern hot rod.
Lownslowlsc
Dedicated LVC Member
Sleeper would be better than "muscle car". But by todays standard they're considered sufficient at best in stock form. Back in the 90's they were true sleepers imo.
unity
Dedicated LVC Member
Exactly. A muscle car is generally a once or currently affordable car that is more about HP than switches.
Its in its name what it is. A GT.
the1andonlyGR81
Dedicated LVC Member
its easy to clear this up. look at the 70-72 monte carlo, was not considered a muscle car in its time, a luxury car with muscle, some a 454. some cadillacs came with 472's,.at the time it was what it was named lsc luxury sport coupe. today looking back it had more power than the camaro or mustang came with a v8 hence muscle. nowadays your seeing hyundai's with 300 hp. we are living in a new golden age of muscle. 10 years ago if you wouldve said you could buy a 600hp vette off the showroom floor or a 550 hp mustang let alone a 415hp base model or a supercharged manual 550hp caddy i would have laughed at you.sooner than you think all of this new muscle will be gone just like in the 70-late 80's. of course its a muscle car, today.but the fact that you can get a 300 nissan or the like now just makes it harder on us to keep up. long live the v8!
and im currently taking donations for new project, going to compete in handicapped race the bicycle i need cost more than my muscle car!
and im currently taking donations for new project, going to compete in handicapped race the bicycle i need cost more than my muscle car!
I agree, but by the TS 's standards it is.
See the new Hyundai with 450+ HP?
stihlboy
Well-Known LVC Member
There are many super high performance cars with air-ride. Porsche, Benz, Jag, Gumpert all offer air suspension. As for a muscle car the only one that comes to mind is a Mark.
Suspension has nothing to do with it. A muscle car is a smaller chassis with a big displacement and/or high HP engine that puts straight line performance above all else. In that respect there really is no such thing as a muscle car any more. Challenger SRT maybe but the new Camaro and Stang handle too good and are really Pony cars.
And I like to play devils advocate. I really don't consider a Mark a muscle car. I consider it a GT cause thats what it is. High HP car that handles well but is best at devouring large amounts of highway at illegal speeds while keeping you from getting fatigued.
i think its best to say a mark is in a class of its own, its a luxury muscle touring coupe.
Right on the Mark
Dedicated LVC Member
See the new Hyundai with 450+ HP?
This one?
With nearly a half a liter more displacement than the standard V8, the Tau 5.0-liter also gains direct-injection technology to deliver 429-hp at 6400 rpm and 376 lb-ft of torque at 5000 rpm. That’s an increase of 44-hp and 43 lb-ft of torque over the standard 4.6-liter, which continues on for 2012. Both engines also get a new 8-speed automatic which Hyundai touts as delivering a more refined drive, though the fuel economy gains are minimal with Hyundai claiming just a 1-mpg highway increase for the 4.6, while the 5.0-liter is down slightly at 16/25-mpg.
Its a 5.0L with 429hp and direct injection! And an 8 speed trans.
Yeah, quite impressive.
NetKeym
Dedicated LVC Member
4199 lbs.
4.8 sec. 0-60
13.3 sec. @ 107.1 mph
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1107_2012_hyundai_genesis_5_0_r_spec_test/
Right on the Mark
Dedicated LVC Member
$48,785 AS TESTED!!!!!!!!! No thanks.
After thinking more about this there really are only two modern muscle cars and one isnt made any more. The last gen GTO was a muscle car. Large engine in a chasis size that normally gets a V6. No frills like NAV, auto climate, moon roof just basic inside. It really fits the bill.
Also the Challenger kinda fits the bill. Midsize chasis, big honkin V8, minimal luxury items, lousy handling etc etc.
Also the Challenger kinda fits the bill. Midsize chasis, big honkin V8, minimal luxury items, lousy handling etc etc.
*Maverick*
Well-Known LVC Member
Here's how I look at it. I think of the Mark VIII kind of like the first Chrysler 300 letter cars back in the 50's. They were luxurious, fast for their time, and are sometimes referred to as an early muscle car, but the muscle cars that came after them in the 60's and 70's would blow their doors off. The Mark VIII was fast in it's time, one of the early pioneers in the era of modern "muscle", where Ford's horsepower comes almost exclusively from modular engines now, and, of course, the American muscle being built today will walk all over a stock Mark VIII.
That being said, I don't really consider the Mark VIII a "muscle car" by definition, but I don't mind when people call it that. I would agree with some of you that it's more of a GT car, but everyone's going to define what category it fits into differently. I have a friend with a P71 Crown Vic who refers to his car as a muscle car, and I've had people call my '72 Lincoln Mark IV a muscle car. It's not the way I would define those cars, but I guess I could see how some people would. I believe what it is is all the old muscle cars that are definitely muscle cars (Chevelle SS, Merc Cyclone, Torino Talledega, Charger, etc) have gotten so expensive and rare in recent years that people (or at least around my generation) have started calling everything American from that era with a V8 and RWD a muscle car, and that's bled over into calling modern American cars with V8's and RWD muscle cars too.
That being said, I don't really consider the Mark VIII a "muscle car" by definition, but I don't mind when people call it that. I would agree with some of you that it's more of a GT car, but everyone's going to define what category it fits into differently. I have a friend with a P71 Crown Vic who refers to his car as a muscle car, and I've had people call my '72 Lincoln Mark IV a muscle car. It's not the way I would define those cars, but I guess I could see how some people would. I believe what it is is all the old muscle cars that are definitely muscle cars (Chevelle SS, Merc Cyclone, Torino Talledega, Charger, etc) have gotten so expensive and rare in recent years that people (or at least around my generation) have started calling everything American from that era with a V8 and RWD a muscle car, and that's bled over into calling modern American cars with V8's and RWD muscle cars too.
Daviddc114
Well-Known LVC Member
its funny, because i just thought of the 2003 - 2004 mercury marauder, it is a muscle car, agreed?? i mean it was built to be and marketed as a muscle car, (named after the 60's muscle car version) so i think there can be no argument there, correct? well it shares almost everything with the mark viii. the engine, the leather and all the bells and whistles.. and mercury has always been the middle of the road as far as luxury goes, ford brand being the basic, mercury the more luxury, and lincoln being the most luxury, but even though mercury is more luxury than ford it still is a modern day muscle car. the funny thing is, it is a four door and the mark is a 2 door, which to me should mean the mark is more a muscle car than the marauder is.
i think that the way cars are built today is just different, you cant say because the mark has so many luxurys, thats why its not a muscle car, its just that these luxury options were not so available, or as practical years ago. i mean its next to impossible to find a car today with no ac and no power windows, and as for heated leather, you could buy a kia with heated leather, its just the way cars are built today. look at the new srt8 challenger, it has FAR MORE luxurys than the mark viii, better on board computer, in dash navigation, heated and i think even cooled seats, bluetooth, much more luxurious leather and wicked nice suade, would you say thats not a muscle car?? i believe ford wanted to market this lincoln to a younger croud, so they built a 2 door car with what there current muscle car had (the mustang COBRA) and combined the lincoln luxury with the muscle car drive train, and to me being such a large 2 door car with the muscle car drivetrain says a lincoln muscle car, and i think its a good thing, because i believe this car was just the begining, a few years later they built the 02 t-bird, then the 05 mustang, then all the car companies followed suit and now we have all the muscle car remakes.. just the way i see it...
and you know the other thing about these marks, i mean they were really so ahead of there time,i mean i was looking at mine the other day, it just dont look like a 14 year old car, i think its looks hold up so well to the style today, the only thing that is dated looking is the 16"wheels, other that that man it looks good
i think that the way cars are built today is just different, you cant say because the mark has so many luxurys, thats why its not a muscle car, its just that these luxury options were not so available, or as practical years ago. i mean its next to impossible to find a car today with no ac and no power windows, and as for heated leather, you could buy a kia with heated leather, its just the way cars are built today. look at the new srt8 challenger, it has FAR MORE luxurys than the mark viii, better on board computer, in dash navigation, heated and i think even cooled seats, bluetooth, much more luxurious leather and wicked nice suade, would you say thats not a muscle car?? i believe ford wanted to market this lincoln to a younger croud, so they built a 2 door car with what there current muscle car had (the mustang COBRA) and combined the lincoln luxury with the muscle car drive train, and to me being such a large 2 door car with the muscle car drivetrain says a lincoln muscle car, and i think its a good thing, because i believe this car was just the begining, a few years later they built the 02 t-bird, then the 05 mustang, then all the car companies followed suit and now we have all the muscle car remakes.. just the way i see it...
and you know the other thing about these marks, i mean they were really so ahead of there time,i mean i was looking at mine the other day, it just dont look like a 14 year old car, i think its looks hold up so well to the style today, the only thing that is dated looking is the 16"wheels, other that that man it looks good
the1andonlyGR81
Dedicated LVC Member
this settles it. mark viii yes, according to the dictionary. read and smile!
Muscle car is a term used to refer to a variety of high-performance automobiles.[1] The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines muscle cars as "any of a group of American-made 2-door sports coupes with powerful engines designed for high-performance driving."[2] Usually, a large V8 engine is fitted in a 2-door, rear wheel drive, family-style mid-size or full-size car designed for four or more passengers. Sold at an affordable price, muscle cars are intended for mainly street use and occasional drag racing
:iconcur::waving::waving::waving::waving::waving::ballon
Muscle car is a term used to refer to a variety of high-performance automobiles.[1] The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines muscle cars as "any of a group of American-made 2-door sports coupes with powerful engines designed for high-performance driving."[2] Usually, a large V8 engine is fitted in a 2-door, rear wheel drive, family-style mid-size or full-size car designed for four or more passengers. Sold at an affordable price, muscle cars are intended for mainly street use and occasional drag racing
:iconcur::waving::waving::waving::waving::waving::ballon
Jacksun
Dedicated LVC Member
My foots asleep
beerdog
Well-Known LVC Member
I have owned 2 98's for 12 years. I for 12yrs and 1 for 6yrs. They have been very reliable and inexpensive to maintain. Of course, I do most work myself and both have been garaged kept most of their lives. I would guess these are no more expensive to own than any other 15 year old car with lots of luxury features. These do have a few weak spots coupled with dwindling parts supplies that can make life difficult ($$$$).....the neon, blendoor come to mind.
I would not consider the stock configuration a muscle car. After you wake it up with a few mods it enters the muscle car realm. Although guys who own real muscle cars will never accept ours or any newer cars into their world. No matter how fast you make it. By real I mean pre '72 with hot motors. We even have cruise nights where late model cars are not welcome.
I would not consider the stock configuration a muscle car. After you wake it up with a few mods it enters the muscle car realm. Although guys who own real muscle cars will never accept ours or any newer cars into their world. No matter how fast you make it. By real I mean pre '72 with hot motors. We even have cruise nights where late model cars are not welcome.
While this whole discussion could vary in 100 different directions based on personal opinions, I think you have to really consider multiple variables.
First and foremost, remember the car was close to $50k new, which was a s h i t lot back then. I watch that commercial where it goes under the bar with the lowering suspension, and it was $449 a month or something like that. That was a boatload back in the mid to late 90's. At that time, the comparable mustang was around $30k. In the final year, 1998, 300hp was a pretty powerful machine. Today, 300hp has become an unworthy road hog for new production to enthusiasts. But if you look under the cover, what Lincoln did was to build a performance oriented coupe with a luxury blanket. Low production numbers and the Lincoln name allowed you to get 300hp with lower insurance rates. No different than the big 3 under rating the HP output on their big power cars in the 60s.
So yea, it was kinda a stealth muscle car covered in luxury. As for being expensive to maintain, truely they are. The sheer unavailability of parts makes it a royal PITA. My biggest issue currently is the freaking Oil Level Sensor. I've replaced it like 4 times on my 98 and the aftermarket ones are just junk. They fail within a year. My ballast just failed, and $150 to get a ballast for a light that is essentially asthetic is a lot. I have a seriously bad brake pull to the left. The conclusion I have come to with the aid of a couple friends is that it's in the ABS module. I don't even want to think about how much that would cost. I just deal with a brake pull as a result. (and it isn't related to any of the parts, they are all new parts I put on with the cobra brake conversion, which worked flawlessly for 1.5 years) Everytime I've called Ford for anything, the answer I get is "discontinued." And the ones that make it into a boneyard are stripped faster than a pizza at a weight watchers convention. But I keep mine up to extremely high standards. If you wanna drive something like you stole it, you gotta keep it in tip top condition.
The low cost to buy is a giant plus though. I bought mine almost 4 years ago with 88k miles for $3800 from a friend so I knew the history. I've had no major failures in that time. (the most expensive failure to date is actually the ballast)
First and foremost, remember the car was close to $50k new, which was a s h i t lot back then. I watch that commercial where it goes under the bar with the lowering suspension, and it was $449 a month or something like that. That was a boatload back in the mid to late 90's. At that time, the comparable mustang was around $30k. In the final year, 1998, 300hp was a pretty powerful machine. Today, 300hp has become an unworthy road hog for new production to enthusiasts. But if you look under the cover, what Lincoln did was to build a performance oriented coupe with a luxury blanket. Low production numbers and the Lincoln name allowed you to get 300hp with lower insurance rates. No different than the big 3 under rating the HP output on their big power cars in the 60s.
So yea, it was kinda a stealth muscle car covered in luxury. As for being expensive to maintain, truely they are. The sheer unavailability of parts makes it a royal PITA. My biggest issue currently is the freaking Oil Level Sensor. I've replaced it like 4 times on my 98 and the aftermarket ones are just junk. They fail within a year. My ballast just failed, and $150 to get a ballast for a light that is essentially asthetic is a lot. I have a seriously bad brake pull to the left. The conclusion I have come to with the aid of a couple friends is that it's in the ABS module. I don't even want to think about how much that would cost. I just deal with a brake pull as a result. (and it isn't related to any of the parts, they are all new parts I put on with the cobra brake conversion, which worked flawlessly for 1.5 years) Everytime I've called Ford for anything, the answer I get is "discontinued." And the ones that make it into a boneyard are stripped faster than a pizza at a weight watchers convention. But I keep mine up to extremely high standards. If you wanna drive something like you stole it, you gotta keep it in tip top condition.
The low cost to buy is a giant plus though. I bought mine almost 4 years ago with 88k miles for $3800 from a friend so I knew the history. I've had no major failures in that time. (the most expensive failure to date is actually the ballast)
Don Pfau
Dedicated LVC Member
I've had 4 Mark VIII's over 12 year's with very few needed repairs. I've paid for many unneeded mods. They can make a potent affordable reliable hot rod. I always started with clean low miles cars though. You could buy 4 of my Marks for the cost a new 5.0 . Or 5 for a Challeger SRT-8. Some one posted a video of mine beating a Challenger SRT-8 on it first race day out. With some minor changes over thelast 6 months it is almost a second faster and 14 mph higher now. latest video Supercharged Lincoln Mark VIII Solo 11.66 at 119..81mph - YouTube I still like this video best since Trunk Monkey took it in HD and the sound is almost all Lincoln even though RobertP stomped me. Supercharged Mark VIII Vs Supercharged Thunderbird - YouTube Bottom line I could't be happier with it. I sold my 03 Cobra because I like the Mark better.
AVEY10
Active LVC Member
really!? id love to have one but bein 6'5" id have a hard time fitting inside it even my mark i have a hard time. lol.