Nation still more conservative then liberal, despite the election.

shagdrum

Dedicated LVC Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
6,568
Reaction score
44
Location
KS
Winds of Political Change Haven’t Shifted Public’s Ideology Balance

by Juliana Horowitz, Research Associate, Pew Research Center for the People & the Press
November 25, 2008

The Democratic Party's advantage in party identification has widened over the past two decades, but the share of Americans who describe their political views as liberal, conservative or moderate has remained stable during the same period. Only about one-in-five Americans currently call themselves liberal (21%), while 38% say they are conservative and 36% describe themselves as moderate. This is virtually unchanged from recent years; when George W. Bush was first elected president, 18% of Americans said they were liberal, 36% were conservative and 38% considered themselves moderate.1

Young people are considerably more likely than older Americans to describe their political views as liberal. About the same number of those younger than age 30 say they are liberal (27%) as say they are conservative (30%). The ideological gap is much wider among older Americans; 50 to 64 year-olds are more than twice as likely to describe themselves as conservative (41%) than as liberal (19%), and those age 65 and older are three times more likely to say they are conservative (45% vs. 15% liberal).

Ideological ratings also vary significantly by education. Four-in-ten Americans with graduate degrees say they are politically moderate, while about three-in-ten say they are either liberal or conservative (29% each). Among those with no more than a high school education, a third says they are moderate, 41% describe themselves as conservative and fewer than one-in-five call themselves liberal (18%).

Still, ideological labels do not always predict opinions about key policy issues. For example, about half of Americans who describe their political views as conservative say that all (24%) or some (27%) of the tax cuts passed under George W. Bush should be repealed. More than four-in-ten conservatives (43%) say that abortion should be legal in some or all cases. On the other hand, nearly half of self-described liberals (49%) favor more offshore drilling for oil and gas in U.S. waters.

Ideology among Partisans

Democrats, on balance, describe themselves as either liberal (34%) or moderate (37%) and the proportion labelling themselves as liberal has risen in recent years. Republicans, on the other hand, are not only largely conservative (68%) but, as their share of the electorate has declined somewhat, a higher proportion now say they are conservative than in the past. The ideological balance has been more stable among independents.

About a third of Democrats label themselves as liberal (34%) and a quarter say they are conservative; in 2000, Democrats were about as likely to say they were liberal (27%) as they were to call themselves conservative (24%). Fewer Democrats now say they are moderate than did so in recent years.

While Democrats are divided in their ideological ratings, Republicans largely classify their political views as conservative; about two-thirds describe themselves that way (68%), compared with 64% in 2004 and 63% in 2000. A quarter say they are moderate, while virtually no Republican says the label "liberal" applies to them (4%).

Among independents, nearly half (45%) describe their views as moderate, 30% say they are conservative and 20% call themselves liberal. These figures are nearly identical to the way independents described their political views earlier in the decade. In 2000, 46% called themselves moderate, 28% said they were conservative and 20% described themselves as liberal. In 2005, however, independents were about as likely to say they were liberal (24%) as they were to label themselves conservative (26%).

Who Are the Liberal Democrats?

Among Democrats, younger whites and college graduates are the most likely to say their political views are liberal. Fully half of Democratic college graduates describe themselves that way, as do 48% of white Democrats younger than 30. Just four years ago, Democrats in these demographic groups were about as likely to say they were moderate as they were to call themselves liberal (40% moderate and 42% liberal among younger whites and 42% moderate and 45% liberal among college graduates in 2004).

Conversely, white evangelical Protestants are the least likely among Democrats to define their views as liberal. Fewer than one-in-five say they are liberal (19%), compared with 41% who call themselves moderate and 35% who say they are conservative. The ideological ratings of white mainline Protestants and white, non-Hispanic Catholics are more in line with the overall rating for all Democrats.

Black Democrats also are less likely to say they are liberal (25%) than to say they are conservative (35%). Another 35% describe their views as moderate. Among white Democrats, however, 37% define themselves as liberal and about the same share says they are moderate (38%). Only about one-in-five white Democrats call themselves conservative (21%).

Republicans Largely Conservative

Solid majorities of Republicans across virtually all demographic groups say their political views are best described as conservative.

White evangelical Protestants are the most conservative Republicans: 79% describe their political views as conservative, compared with 17% who say they are moderate and just 2% who call themselves liberal. Republican white mainline Protestants and white non-Hispanic Catholics also are largely conservative (63% and 66%, respectively), but about three-in-ten in each group say their views are moderate (31% among white mainline Protestants and 30% among white Catholics).

Republicans younger than age 30 are less likely than older Republicans to classify their political views as conservative, but 62% in this age group says the label applies to them, while 29% say they are moderate and 7% are liberal. In contrast, among those age 50 and older, nearly three-quarters call themselves conservative (72%), 22% say they are moderate and just 4% say they are liberal.

Ideology and Issue Positions

The ideological ratings Americans ascribe to their political views often reflect positions on key policy issues. For example, about seven-in-ten self-described conservatives oppose allowing gays and lesbians to marry legally, while nearly the same percentage of self-described liberals favor it (68%).

Yet, even within ideological groups there are disagreements over major issues. Liberals are divided in their views of offshore drilling -- 49% favor and 48% oppose allowing more oil and gas drilling in U.S. waters as a way to address America's energy needs.

Conservatives are about equally split when it comes to the U.S. government guaranteeing health insurance for all citizens. Half of those who describe their political views as conservative favor government-backed insurance even if it means raising taxes, while 47% oppose it. And while majorities of conservatives think the United States made the right decision in using military force against Iraq and favor troops remaining there until the situation has stabilized (59% each), sizable minorities say the war was the wrong decision (37%) and favor the troops coming home as soon as possible (39%).
 
Democrats can't fool all of the people all of the time...
 
from
The rise of the Obamacons

Oct 23rd 2008
A striking number of conservatives are planning to vote for Obama
--------------------------------

...
Mr Powell is now a four-star general in America’s most surprising new army: the Obamacons. The army includes other big names such as Susan Eisenhower, Dwight’s granddaughter, who introduced Mr Obama at the Democratic National Convention and Christopher Buckley, the son of the conservative icon William Buckley, who complains that he has not left the Republican Party: the Republican Party has left him. Chuck Hagel, a Republican senator from Nebraska and one-time bosom buddy of Mr McCain has also flirted heavily with the movement, though he has refrained from issuing an official endorsement.

The biggest brigade in the Obamacon army consists of libertarians, furious with Mr Bush’s big-government conservatism, worried about his commitment to an open-ended “war on terror”, and disgusted by his cavalier way with civil rights. There are two competing “libertarians for Obama” web sites. CaféPress is even offering a “libertarian for Obama” lawn sign for $19.95. Larry Hunter, who helped to devise Newt Gingrich’s Contract with America in 1994, thinks that Mr Obama can free America from the grip of the “zombies” who now run the Republican Party.

But the army has many other brigades, too: repentant neocons such as Francis Fukuyama, legal scholars such as Douglas Kmiec, and conservative talk-show hosts such as Michael Smerconish. And it is picking up unexpected new recruits as the campaign approaches its denouement. Many disillusioned Republicans hoped that Mr McCain would provide a compass for a party that has lost its way, but now feel that the compass has gone haywire. Kenneth Adelman, who once described the invasion of Iraq as a “cakewalk”, decided this week to vote for Mr Obama mainly because he regards Sarah Palin as “not close to being acceptable in high office”.

The rise of the Obamacons is more than a reaction against Mr Bush’s remodelling of the Republican Party and Mr McCain’s desperation: there were plenty of disillusioned Republicans in 2004 who did not warm to John Kerry. It is also a positive verdict on Mr Obama. For many conservatives, Mr Obama embodies qualities that their party has abandoned: pragmatism, competence and respect for the head rather than the heart. Mr Obama’s calm and collected response to the turmoil on Wall Street contrasted sharply with Mr McCain’s grandstanding.

Much of Mr Obama’s rhetoric is strikingly conservative, even Reaganesque. He preaches the virtues of personal responsibility and family values, and practises them too. He talks in uplifting terms about the promise of American life. His story also appeals to conservatives: it holds the possibility of freeing America from its racial demons, proving that the country is a race-blind meritocracy and, in the process, bankrupting a race-grievance industry that has produced the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

How much do these Obamacons matter? More than Mr McCain would like to think. The Obamacons are manifestations of a deeper turmoil in the Republican rank-and-file, as the old coalition of small-government activists, social conservatives and business Republicans falls apart. They also influence opinion. This is obvious in the case of Mr Powell: Mr Obama is making liberal use of his endorsement to refute the latest Republican criticism that he is a “socialist”. But it is also true of lesser-known scribblers. At least 27 newspapers that backed Mr Bush in 2004 have endorsed Mr Obama.

Moreover, the revolt of the intellectuals is coinciding with a migration of culturally conservative voters—particularly white working-class voters—into Obamaland. Mr Obama is now level-pegging or leading among swing-groups such as Catholics and working-class whites. A recent Washington Post-ABC poll shows him winning 22% of self-described conservatives, a higher proportion than any Democratic nominee since 1980.

-----------------------------------

Once again the Republicans defeated themselves... The nation may be more conservative than liberal, but that doesn't mean that the conservatives blindly follow anyone or anything - they left the GOP in disgust...
 
The article begs the question...

Then how the hell did Obama win?

Because Obama and the democrats fooled many moderates and conservatives...

They didn't campaign as liberals, and provided as little substance as they could.

Add the cult of personality built around Obama (by the DNC, pop culture and the MSM) and how that created a kind of cultural "peer preasure" the works to shut down any logical thinking and you get a number of people sacrificing reason and their political prinicples to vote for Obama.

It won't last. They won't stay fooled by Obama. Once he starts showing his true colors, people will turn.
 
I don't care about Liberals and Conservatives. But the Liberals who are to the left of Lenin do scare me.

Conservatives to the right of Fossten scare me LOL:D

Oh by the way... America is pretty much central (Conservative on some issue and Liberal on others) ... but you only get to hear from the further Right or the further left... The middle just keep things moving forward ... and laughing at the rest...

But I know that I am wrong because only the conservatives on the sight are correct ... and non bias ... everyone else is wrong ... the cause of everything bad in America .... and are going to Hell.
 
Conservatives to the right of Fossten scare me LOL:D

Oh by the way... America is pretty much central (Conservative on some issue and Liberal on others) ... but you only get to hear from the further Right or the further left... The middle just keep things moving forward ... and laughing at the rest...

But I know that I am wrong because only the conservatives on the sight are correct ... and non bias ... everyone else is wrong ... the cause of everything bad in America .... and are going to Hell.

Actually, study after study confirms that this country is center-right. not exactly center.

And no, us conservatives do not claim to be "non-bias" or "always right", but we demonstratably have more intellecual honesty and integrety (and a sense of decency) then most of the leftist on this site. Just look at JohnnyBZ00LS, nightriddah or StincolnLincoln, to name a few. No sense of decency, and only come to this forum to flame here and bait the other side. They offer nothing, and in any other forum would have long ago been banned. Those type of people here consistently come from the left.

The worst you have on the right is people reacting to the distortion, deciet and smears coming from the left (typical liberal talking points) instead of just shutting up and tolerating it (which is what the left on this forum expects of us)...

Bias, does not mean "not credible" or "unreasonable", but lying about your bias does hurt your credibility (MSM). Most of us conservatives would have no problem being reasonably challenged on the issues, however many on the left on this forum cannot do so in an intellectually honest manner or with an intellectually honest, reasonable argument (most liberal talking points are fallacious and based in deciet and/or personal attacks). Therefore, they cannot mount a reasonable challenge.

If an argument is based in misdirection, fallacies and/or smears, it discredits itself. Pointing that out merely shines a light on why the argument is junk.
 
Well even childrens do learn.
Enough people got tired of Bush and his administration that it dragged down the republican party.
Governments are usually voted out of office and the charismatic fortunate Obama just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

content_cartoonbox_slate_com.gif


untitled.jpg


funnyusvs7wl5.jpg
 
The worst you have on the right is people reacting to the distortion, deciet and smears coming from the left (typical liberal talking points) instead of just shutting up and tolerating it (which is what the left on this forum expects of us)...

Really? I laugh in your general direction Shag…

Just look at the posts in the political and current events ‘section’ on the first page – all but 2 posted by ‘righters’ on this site… I think it is the ‘lefters’ who are reacting to these myriad of posts that are in many cases distorted reporting from right sources, deceitful re-postings of ‘not as funny as you think’ bad GOP chain letter emails, or smears that are being passed on from one conservative to the next like a sexually transmitted disease.

There are so many that often the liberal pawns can’t even begin to respond to all of them (or perhaps we don’t wish to sully ourselves, staying away so we don’t run the risk of catching something incurable). And if you look, the ‘left’ rarely posts anything from our leftist sources, or reposts the emails sent from our friends (although I do admit I have once or twice in the last few months…)

Actually, you might notice a trend if you look at the threads in this section of this site… the right whines, excessively.
 
I rest my case LOL.. Non Bias... and you are right... long post of conervative leaning opinion but you are right.. you are the smartest ones because you are conservative...

So I have to agree with you and the rest.. because that's the only way.. your way.. and your opinion.. Oh your "more intellecual honesty and integrety" opinion because you are right.


Actually, study after study confirms that this country is center-right. not exactly center.

And no, us conservatives do not claim to be "non-bias" or "always right", but we demonstratably have more intellecual honesty and integrety (and a sense of decency) then most of the leftist on this site. Just look at JohnnyBZ00LS, nightriddah or StincolnLincoln, to name a few. No sense of decency, and only come to this forum to flame here and bait the other side. They offer nothing, and in any other forum would have long ago been banned. Those type of people here consistently come from the left.

The worst you have on the right is people reacting to the distortion, deciet and smears coming from the left (typical liberal talking points) instead of just shutting up and tolerating it (which is what the left on this forum expects of us)...

Bias, does not mean "not credible" or "unreasonable", but lying about your bias does hurt your credibility (MSM). Most of us conservatives would have no problem being reasonably challenged on the issues, however many on the left on this forum cannot do so in an intellectually honest manner or with an intellectually honest, reasonable argument (most liberal talking points are fallacious and based in deciet and/or personal attacks). Therefore, they cannot mount a reasonable challenge.

If an argument is based in misdirection, fallacies and/or smears, it discredits itself. Pointing that out merely shines a light on why the argument is junk.
 
So... we have mostly conservative opinions on this forum, and that means conservatives here are bias and dishonest? Is that the argument? Because that seems to be the jist of it; correct me if I am wrong.

There is a reason that conservatives tend to dominate this forum; dishonest liberal arguing tactics are not tolerated here and there are not many liberals who can (or will) try and make a reasonable argument and not use those dishonest tactics.

Mespock, you don't have to "agree with [me] and the rest" but you do have to make an honest and reasonable argument. Anything less (like your last line in post #7) is gonna be called on.

And no, fox, us conservative are not "whiny", we expect some decency and honesty and will return it in kind. But we have stopped simply tolerating the dishonesty, deciet and smears that seem to be the vast majority of what is offered in defense of liberal views here.

Expecting honesty and decency in a political debate is not too much to ask.

However, you guys on the left here expect us on the right to simply grin and take all the smears, dishonesty and deciet you guy put in arguments (lacking any integrity or decency in doing so). I personally have seen it when I try to walk away from a debate, and the liberals here start dishonestly crowing about "victory" in an argument, and when I refuse to leave the debate and instead shine a light on that severe lack of decency and what it says about the person, I get smeared, insulted and attacked for being "rude and insulting" (because I am being honest).

In the course of debates on this forum, I have been called (or implied to be) a homophobe and a sexist, without any reasonable foundation. I think I may have been called a racist as well, but cannot specifically remember.

My experience is not unique here, either. It is what sufices as "intelligent discourse" from the left (at least on this forum). Just look at the thread by "nightriddah" title "screw Bush" with the justification of "just because...", or any thread started by JohhnyBZ00LS to see great examples of the lack of decency or honesty from the left on this forum. Can you honestly find that from the right here?

And, once again foxpaws, you are spinning and flat out lying to distort reality. :rolleyes:
posts that are in many cases distorted reporting from right sources, deceitful re-postings of ‘not as funny as you think’ bad GOP chain letter emails, or smears that are being passed on from one conservative to the next like a sexually transmitted disease
Nevermind the fact that the reporting is not distorted (at least most of the time), the chain emails are usually labeled as such (nothing decietful there), are funny and not anywhere near as offensive a number of the smears and distortions that the left passes off in the name of "humor" (see the Colbert Report, the Daily Show, Bill Mahr, etc., etc.), and the "smears" by the right here actually tend to be truthful and accurate and thus not, by definition, a smear.

Probably not the best idea to critique others on "smearing" and reposting "decietful" emails when you have an Alex Ross painting of Bush sucking the blood out of the Statue of Liberty (which only shows both the talent and poltical ignorance and/or stupidity of Alex Ross).:shifty: :D ;)

Fox, unless you can site specific examples (with links to the theads) and specific posts to prove you dishonest spin, I suggest you STFU.

There is a reason that the only people you have any credibility with in the area of politics in this forum are the most dishonest people here and most others see you as intentionally obfuscating and distorting reality.
 
Like I said you're right ...

oh and the conservative lean hmmmm that may be in your political forum ...

But you are right .. no argument because there isn't any. I've read though many thread in these forum.. and like I said you are right I concede.. You are the higher intellect... you "demonstratably have more intellecual honesty and integrety (and a sense of decency)"

It has to feel good for you ...

Now it's time to go back to the real world of LvC... it exist outside the political forum ... but that's just for the dumb gear heads.. common folk who don't have a clue.... It's nice living in our ignorance...
 
Well, shag, I'll have to get back to this - I just wanted to acknowledge - woo hoo - someone who knows Alex Ross -

Heck, I could have used the Cheney/Bush Make Love not War image... ;)

he is great - best joker in a long, long time... and a great green lantern

Plus, I had to post at least some good art after looking at the junk that Calabrio puts in his sig lines...:)

RossJoker.jpg
 
Like I said you're right ...

oh and the conservative lean hmmmm that may be in your political forum ...

But you are right .. no argument because there isn't any. I've read though many thread in these forum.. and like I said you are right I concede.. You are the higher intellect... you "demonstratably have more intellecual honesty and integrety (and a sense of decency)"

It has to feel good for you ...

Now it's time to go back to the real world of LvC... it exist outside the political forum ... but that's just for the dumb gear heads.. common folk who don't have a clue.... It's nice living in our ignorance...
You just spent a lot of words saying essentially nothing, yet trying to sarcastically insult Shag and all the rest of the conservatives.

I wonder if you have ever had the balls to post your own opinion here. In any case, you're nothing but a trolling post whore. If anybody needs to go back to the "mech section," it's you. Stick to subjects you know something about.
 
OK you are the god here on that... we know it because you have self proclaimed it many times.. can't argue with that.. you are right..

I am ignorant... I'm so dumb.. I'm sorry for posting in a non bias conservative thread.. is there any forgiveness...
 
OK you are the god here on that... we know it because you have self proclaimed it many times.. can't argue with that.. you are right..

I am ignorant... I'm so dumb.. I'm sorry for posting in a non bias conservative thread.. is there any forgiveness...

Ah Rich, fossten is not right he just has an opinion about things thats all.
 
There is a reason that conservatives tend to dominate this forum; dishonest liberal arguing tactics are not tolerated here and there are not many liberals who can (or will) try and make a reasonable argument and not use those dishonest tactics.

But, by that statement Shag, obviously dishonest conservative arguing tactics are tolerated and encouraged. Wouldn’t the bolded statement be more just if you took out the word liberal? Or is it as others have noticed, unless you are a cheerleader for the right, you are automatically dishonest?

The right faction here cannot seem to accept that there are those that try to show that there is another side to most arguments. If you haven’t noticed, when I post, I rarely state that the right is totally wrong, but rather, that there are other viewpoints that should be taken into account.

The world isn’t black and white – if you are anything other than a staunch conservative or a staunch liberal. For those in the vast middle, there is a land of lots of colors, along with many shades of gray.

And no, fox, us conservative are not "whiny", we expect some decency and honesty and will return it in kind.
And if you view the world as only good or bad, then yes, you come across as whiny. You appear ‘whiny’ when you continually harp on how bad the left is, without presenting ways to make things better, or that 'your' side has shortcomings as well. Really read Coulter, listen to Rush, dissect Hannity – they often present no solutions, however, they continually harp on faults and shortcomings. They shrilly whine. And I agree that the left does it as well – why do you think I never post junk from Kos, or Huffington? Why do you think I am tired of reading it on both sides?

Expecting honesty and decency in a political debate is not too much to ask.

No it isn’t shag – but, when all you do is back up right wing pundits, or continually use biased source, it isn’t debate, but a regurgitation of what I can read elsewhere. Over and over again I try to engage you in real discussion – to try to discern what your opinions are, and I keep coming up empty. Even when I asked you point blank about why you post something you dance around it. You are a wonderful parrot – but, I don’t enjoy discussing anything with a parrot. I would much rather engage with a person. I often prod you, I admit it, but it is always in hopes that I get to see behind the posing, and interact with flesh and bone and alpha waves. You have alpha waves, I know it. Interesting ones.

And rather than let real discussion occur, when things might get dicey, you hide. You start to attack character, not content.

The best debate I had on this site was with you Shag – regarding the first amendment. With much scrapping and biting I was able to get you to go beyond echoing biased source, and instead going to original source and content, and get you to state what ‘you’ thought.

There is a reason that the only people you have any credibility with in the area of politics in this forum are the most dishonest people here and most others see you as intentionally obfuscating and distorting reality.

Well, I guess I should just let that little statement stand Shag. It is most telling…
 
OK you are the god here on that... we know it because you have self proclaimed it many times.. can't argue with that.. you are right..

I am ignorant... I'm so dumb.. I'm sorry for posting in a non bias conservative thread.. is there any forgiveness...
Because all you do is take sarcastic potshots from the cheap seats instead of actually trying to make an argument or state an actual opinion, you are nothing but a coward.

Deal with it.
 
Or is it as others have noticed, unless you are a cheerleader for the right, you are automatically dishonest?
Obviously not.
We've had this discussion here before.

I'll make this simple.
When you debate someone like Shag, he doesn't try to trick you. His goal isn't to persuade you into accepting something you fundamentally disagree with. He will state things as he understands them.

That same approach isn't embraced by the political left.
Not by all who self-identify themselves as liberals, but the political active.

In your case, Foxpaws, you are more interested in persuading. You frame things in a way that I would label as dishonest to persuade a person into accepting something they otherwise wouldn't. For example, loving capitalism so much, you want to nationalize industry to save it. If you just said, "I want to nationalize industry," you'd be dismissed. There isn't anything you won't say in order to fool someone into agreeing with you, Foxpaws, sincerity be damned.

The active conservatives here seem to like to hash out ideas.
The active liberals here are more interested in the political presentation.

This is also demonstrated by the tendency of the left in here to distract or change the subject with such frequency when the topic is unflattering to their cause.

None of this is a surprise, it's at the foundation of the political left in this country. American Liberalism contradicts everything about traditional American culture and values. If it's presented to the public in a honest way, most Americans would reject it immediately.

That's why the country is still more conservative than liberal, despite the underhanded indoctrination in the education system and media for the better part of the last century.


Really read Coulter, listen to Rush, dissect Hannity – they often present no solutions, however, they continually harp on faults and shortcomings.
I suggest you do that, because you're either simply incorrect or being dishonest. In your case, because I know how informed you are, and because I'll presume you're not being dishonest- I'm going to assume you don't understand.

SOLUTIONS don't mean GOVERNMENT.
Conservative philosophy is very simple. It's not whiny to say that the government is too big and it needs to get out of the way. It's not whiny to say stop taking half of my income in the form of taxes. It's not whiny to say 'don't take away my right to defend myself.'

And less government IS an example of a solution.

And rather than let real discussion occur, when things might get dicey, you hide. You start to attack character, not content.
Bull-
he does nothing of the short.
Repeatedly I've watched him invest time building articulate and thoughtful arguments that will never be answered in response to knee-jerk attacks and pile-ons in this forum.
 
Well said, Calabrio. Fox can't hide anymore, you've exposed her tactics. The roaches are running for the corners now.

Really read Coulter, listen to Rush, dissect Hannity – they often present no solutions, however, they continually harp on faults and shortcomings.
Right there - that statement proves you've never done any of those things.

1. Coulter uses satire and sarcasm to expose faulty thinking and behavior, but in doing so the solutions are painfully obvious to anybody with an IQ above room temp. You've obviously not read any of her books. Why not throw in John Stossel too? He covers many of the same topics as Ann.

2. Rush is the most positive, uplifting show on the airwaves. You want to listen to several hours of hate hate hate, tune in to Air America.

3. Hannity, while a bit repetitive and sloganistic, offers solutions repeatedly on his show. Just because you don't like his solutions doesn't make your ad hominem assertions correct.
 
Because all you do is take sarcastic potshots from the cheap seats instead of actually trying to make an argument or state an actual opinion, you are nothing but a coward.

Deal with it.

No he's NOT!!!!
 
Because all you do is take sarcastic potshots from the cheap seats instead of actually trying to make an argument or state an actual opinion, you are nothing but a coward.

Deal with it.

Fos, Did you steal this from me?
 

Members online

No members online now.
Back
Top