MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
No!mespock said:
No Child Left Behind
- Thread starter 97silverlsc
- Start date
mespock
Marxists - Socialists
MonsterMark said:
Fine! :N
MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
Another Bush accomplishment. Wonder what Barry will have to say...
Dogma vs. reality
By Thomas Sowell
July 22, 2005
There have been many bitter complaints from teachers and principals about the Bush administration's "No Child Left Behind" act -- and more specifically about having to "teach to the test" instead of doing whatever teachers and principals want to do. Now the results are in.
Not only have test scores in math and reading shown "solid gains" in the words of the New York Times, young black students have "significantly narrowed the gap" between themselves and white students. All this is based on official annual data from 28,000 schools across the country.
It is especially revealing that the young black students have made the largest gains while older minority students "scored as far behind whites as in previous decades."
In other words, the children whose education has taken place mostly since the No Child Left Behind Act show the greatest gains. For those whose education took place mostly under the old system, it was apparently too late to repair the damage. [snip]
Dogma vs. reality
By Thomas Sowell
July 22, 2005
There have been many bitter complaints from teachers and principals about the Bush administration's "No Child Left Behind" act -- and more specifically about having to "teach to the test" instead of doing whatever teachers and principals want to do. Now the results are in.
Not only have test scores in math and reading shown "solid gains" in the words of the New York Times, young black students have "significantly narrowed the gap" between themselves and white students. All this is based on official annual data from 28,000 schools across the country.
It is especially revealing that the young black students have made the largest gains while older minority students "scored as far behind whites as in previous decades."
In other words, the children whose education has taken place mostly since the No Child Left Behind Act show the greatest gains. For those whose education took place mostly under the old system, it was apparently too late to repair the damage. [snip]
fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
Sounds like Mia is well on her way to growing up to become a good liberal activist.
I agree with sending your kids to private schools 100%. I've never been to a publis school, and can say that for many reasons I am happy for it. Now, that's not to say that public education is bad, but the fact that the curriculum is based on what some guy/girl/board thinks will be good makes me never want to send my kids to one. The only problem is now where am I going to get the minimum $11,000 a year per kid to send them through school?? OI VE, it gives me a heart attack. But even at this price I think the value of a private education is greater than most public schools.
And as far as NCLB goes, I'm not sure if it works or not, but yes, atleast it is something. I'm tired of politicians and "journalists"(I really can't stand most journalists these days, even on FOX News and I'm a conservative republican) just crying about what's wrong and not offering any way of improving things. It's always easier to point the finger instead of lending a hand(hey that sounds good, did I get that from somewhere else?). Now, since I'm long out of school, I don't know much about NCLB, but it seems to me like dealing with education is like building a castle. If you have good building engineering, but the defenses suck, are you going to tear down the whole castle, or just the parts that suck and IMPROVE on them. I'm not defending Bush's program(which out of character for me, but like I said, I don't know anything about it) but I wish anybody who has something bad to say would just add in at the end of their diatribe some advice to make things better. And that goes for both sides of the fence, and for policies from the left and the right. No Political profiling with that statement.
PS. I love these political debates, they really add something to my day that I have been missing. You guys from both sides keep up the repartee, because it keeps me on my toes!! :soapbox: :dancefool
And as far as NCLB goes, I'm not sure if it works or not, but yes, atleast it is something. I'm tired of politicians and "journalists"(I really can't stand most journalists these days, even on FOX News and I'm a conservative republican) just crying about what's wrong and not offering any way of improving things. It's always easier to point the finger instead of lending a hand(hey that sounds good, did I get that from somewhere else?). Now, since I'm long out of school, I don't know much about NCLB, but it seems to me like dealing with education is like building a castle. If you have good building engineering, but the defenses suck, are you going to tear down the whole castle, or just the parts that suck and IMPROVE on them. I'm not defending Bush's program(which out of character for me, but like I said, I don't know anything about it) but I wish anybody who has something bad to say would just add in at the end of their diatribe some advice to make things better. And that goes for both sides of the fence, and for policies from the left and the right. No Political profiling with that statement.
PS. I love these political debates, they really add something to my day that I have been missing. You guys from both sides keep up the repartee, because it keeps me on my toes!! :soapbox: :dancefool
Bryan,
When are you going to put your boys in public school? I'm curious, how did you do on tests at that level? I tested extremely well yet I barely graduated from HS. What did the test prove? The tests only created a huge animosity between me and my parents because I was constantly chided to live up to the "Test" scores. I was interested in things mechanical and my parents thought I should follow into my father's fraternity at his alma matter and join him in his advertising business. Is that what you want for your children?
The real world will be their proving grounds. If they've only been taught to the test they will deficient in the skills necessary to prove themselves in the real world. I pay people to be creative and innovative and to be problem solvers. That's not what they're producing and that's the failure.
Also, IMHO, NCLB is what's dumbing down America. Things now have to be taught to the average level so that everyone gets to play. We've created an atmosphere of mediocrity by teaching to the test.
I have no children so I can not comment on todays schools other than the fact that I employ young people and I see an entire generation of vacant stares and no physical skills or strength.
When are you going to put your boys in public school? I'm curious, how did you do on tests at that level? I tested extremely well yet I barely graduated from HS. What did the test prove? The tests only created a huge animosity between me and my parents because I was constantly chided to live up to the "Test" scores. I was interested in things mechanical and my parents thought I should follow into my father's fraternity at his alma matter and join him in his advertising business. Is that what you want for your children?
The real world will be their proving grounds. If they've only been taught to the test they will deficient in the skills necessary to prove themselves in the real world. I pay people to be creative and innovative and to be problem solvers. That's not what they're producing and that's the failure.
Also, IMHO, NCLB is what's dumbing down America. Things now have to be taught to the average level so that everyone gets to play. We've created an atmosphere of mediocrity by teaching to the test.
I have no children so I can not comment on todays schools other than the fact that I employ young people and I see an entire generation of vacant stares and no physical skills or strength.
:soapbox: And one more thing.(I know, I talk way too much, especially for a Newb who's majority of posts have been on the Politics Forum??? WTF?) This talk about people pointing the finger and not trying to help out reminds me of when Bill O'Reilly interviewd Arriana Huffington one time. She kept talking about how bad GITMO is, on and on and on. Now the need for GITMO can be argued over, I personally think that we absolutely need it. However, after Huffer made all these outlandish comments about the prison camp, Bill asks her what we should do about it, and what we should do if we close it down. Her reply?? "That's not my job to figure it out." WTF?? No one asked for your opinion in the first place lady. You can't just tell someone what's wrong(especially when you are in no way qualified to make that judgement) and tell others to fix it!!! IMHO, the right to freedom of speech(which she has, so you cna't stop her from saying this BS) should come with an amendment. If you talk half A$$, then you should talk NO A$$. Meaning if you don't have something positive to add, shut up. Just my, well it's really not even worth a South African rand(the cheapest currency in the world) let alone 2 cents, so I guess disregard all that I have said. :soapbox:
PS. Man, I always have to add a ps. Anyways, this was in no way directed at any members of this forum. I give love to all my LVC brothas!! :V :dancefool :dj:
PS. Man, I always have to add a ps. Anyways, this was in no way directed at any members of this forum. I give love to all my LVC brothas!! :V :dancefool :dj:
fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
barry2952 said:
America was being dumbed down by outcome-based education decades before NCLB. Check the facts. There are numerous articles, statistics, and books on the subject.
MonsterMark said:
I guess my point of view is skewed too because I pay substantial property taxes (most of which goes to schools) and I have no children, but I don't bitch about it. I'd just like to see money wisely spent and IMHO 6 billion dollars could be better spent elsewhere within the schools.
And yes I agree that the SAT is appropriate for college entrance, but I think the teachers should be the judge of who passes of fails before then.
I think we should have a two-tiered system like Germany. I would have done so much better in a mechanical atmosphere rather than an academic one. Not every one can do every thing.
MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
In grade and high school, all we need to be teaching are the basics. Reading, writing, and arithmetic. That's it. 8 hours/day.
Take a look how we compare in proficiency tests. We as a nation are something like 25th in the industrialized world.
Don't give me this 'we shouldn't be teaching to the test crap-o-la'. Let's start with the basics and make sure kids can read at their age level, and can add, subtract, multiple and divide so they can count their change after they eat at McDonalds.
Have you seen the types of questions they have on these exams now versus only several years ago.
Let's post up some of the tests. Then we can make a determination if we are going in the right direction or not.
Take a look how we compare in proficiency tests. We as a nation are something like 25th in the industrialized world.
Don't give me this 'we shouldn't be teaching to the test crap-o-la'. Let's start with the basics and make sure kids can read at their age level, and can add, subtract, multiple and divide so they can count their change after they eat at McDonalds.
Have you seen the types of questions they have on these exams now versus only several years ago.
Let's post up some of the tests. Then we can make a determination if we are going in the right direction or not.
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I know we're one the same side, but when ranting about education, atleast check the spelling.......... :slam
Don't give me this 'we shouldn't be teaching to the test crap-o-la'. Let's start with the basics and make sure kids can read at their age level, and can add, subtract, multiply, and divide so they can count their change after they eat at McDonalds.
and what about the grammar too??? :ban
good times........
but I do agree with your point.
Many times when people are quick to post a response, a little error is not really an issue is it? I'm speaking from experience here. When you start nit-picking someones grammar, it's a slippery slope that will come back to bite you in the booty. :BeerMAllen82 said:
I was making a joke because we're discussing education, and in his post he only mentioned mathematics, and not english or grammar, whilst making a grammar and spelling error. Just a joke man.
PS. KBOB, do you change MonsterMark's diapers too??
This stuff is all in good fun man. One of the first things I was told was to grow a thick skin. And for future reference, any comment I make to someone, while perhaps containing my true feelings about you, most of the time is made in jest. The only thing I take seriously on the internet is the PlayBoy website. :joke
PS. KBOB, do you change MonsterMark's diapers too??
This stuff is all in good fun man. One of the first things I was told was to grow a thick skin. And for future reference, any comment I make to someone, while perhaps containing my true feelings about you, most of the time is made in jest. The only thing I take seriously on the internet is the PlayBoy website. :joke
MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
MonsterMark said:
MAllen82 said:
Looks to me like the 1st line of my post mentions "reading, writing, and arithmetic". Hmmmm.... Most people would ASSume that reading and writing would include english and grammar. Now, as far as my grammar goes, I am the farthest from being a literary expert. I admit it. If every post was an English paper I am sure I would see lots of 'F's. Hey, I hated English in school and it shows now later in life. That is just the way it goes. I guess you will need to learn to live with it because there is no way I'm going back to school. Add in the fact that I never studied a day in my life and those 2 factors seem to equal one grammatically challenged person.
MrScalia
Dedicated LVC Member
MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
Tell Jackson congrats on behalf of the LvC.
fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
barry2952 said:
Yep.
fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
buddylee said:
Funny. I've seen the exact opposite. First hand.
fossten
Dedicated LVC Member
Kbob said:
We're not really supposed to pick on any one person's spelling. The reason is that it would start an avalanche that would prevent any meaningful dialogue from ensuing. Almost everybody would be an easy target.
I have been on forums where people get flamed for asking simple questions. This is actually a fairly civil place to hang out.
I think Bryan was observing in general to make a point about education.