Obama and the military...

It contributes as much as this statement.
Just making a point......just like you.
No, not like me. I think my point was pretty clear. The military suffered profoundly under both Clinton, and Carter too. So, in direct response to the challenged posed, it clearly CAN BE WORSE.

You still haven't made a point.
Are you saying that the issue of up armored humvees five years ago is relevant to the discussion? If so, how?
 
No, not like me. I think my point was pretty clear. The military suffered profoundly under both Clinton, and Carter too. So, in direct response to the challenged posed, it clearly CAN BE WORSE.

Which as NOTHING to do with Obama and the military

You still haven't made a point.
Are you saying that the issue of up armored humvees five years ago is relevant to the discussion? If so, how?

It is just as relevant .... the military has suffered alot under Bush.
Its the same point. I guess Bush proved it can be worse didn't he ?
 
One: He's a usurper. He doesn't qualify to be CIC.
Two: He is dishonest.
Three: He is unqualified in every aspect in regards to his job history.
Four: He's led a life filled with bad associations.
Five: He's a pothead and a coke-head who may still be using.
Six: He a socialist.
Seven: He believes in unilateral nuclear disarmament.
Eight: He's a racist.
Nine: He's anti-semitic.
Ten: He's so arrogant he doesn't know what he doesn't know. Under the veil lies an empty suit.

All of those can apply to you and I both,

You have lied before, everyone has lied before.
I would love to see the prereqs to be CIC, What gave GW experience?
Do you know people in prison, or Ex-cons? If noti am sure I can link you a few!
I am sure you have smoked weed before, even I tried it once. I was too wussy to try crack.
Everybody is a Racist, simply because we label people as "white" or "Black"
And confidence is easily mistaken to be arrogance, just talking to you on this forum, I can tell you are very confident, hell thats how u make it in life, I am confident as hell, I think I can sale salt to a snail.
 
Military officials started resigning as soon as Bush took office, Gen. Shesenki who opposed the war and refused to lie about WMD's, Gen Franks retired after he realized what a mistake the US has made, and look at all the other countries pulling out, Italy pulled their troops, Britian is leaving in May, hell their PM (Tony Blair) resigned when the Bush started burning.
Yeah, right. :rolleyes:

2008 Military Times poll: Wary about Obama

Troops cite inexperience, Iraq timetable

By Brendan McGarry - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday Dec 30, 2008 18:02:38 EST

When asked how they feel about President-elect Barack Obama as commander in chief, six out of 10 active-duty service members say they are uncertain or pessimistic, according to a Military Times survey.

In follow-up interviews, respondents expressed concerns about Obama’s lack of military service and experience leading men and women in uniform.

“Being that the Marine Corps can be sent anywhere in the world with the snap of his fingers, nobody has confidence in this guy as commander in chief,” said one lance corporal who asked not to be identified.

For eight years, members of the U.S. military have served under a Republican commander in chief who reflected their generally conservative views and led them to war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Now, the troops face change not only at the very top of the chain of command, as Obama nears his Jan. 20 inauguration, but perhaps in mission, policy and values.

Underlying much of the uncertainty is Obama’s stated 16-month timetable for pulling combat troops out of Iraq, as well as his calls to end the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy to allow gays to serve openly in the military, according to survey responses and interviews.

“How are you going to safely pull combat troops out of Iraq?” said Air Force 1st Lt. Rachel Kleinpeter, an intelligence officer with the 100th Operations Support Squadron at RAF Mildenhall, England. “And if you’re pulling out combat troops, who are you leaving to help support what’s left? What happens if Iraq falls back into chaos? Are we going to be there in five years doing the same thing over again?”

When asked who has their best interests at heart — Obama or President George W. Bush — a higher percentage of respondents picked Bush, though Bush has lost ground over time. About half of the respondents said Bush has their best interests at heart this year, the same percentage as last year but a decline from 69 percent in 2004.

Nearly one-third of respondents — including eight out of 10 black service members — said they are optimistic about their incoming boss.

Even some service members who voted against Obama — only 1 in 4 supported him over Sen. John McCain in a pre-election survey of Military Times subscribers —now express goodwill toward him as their new commander in chief.

“Overall, the prospect of having someone who isn’t necessarily tied to old strategies is a good thing,” said Air Force Master Sgt. David Ortegon, who said he voted for McCain. “Sometimes you need a fresh perspective to be able to handle our military readiness and the needs of the nation.”

The findings are part of the sixth annual Military Times survey of subscribers to Army Times, Air Force Times, Navy Times and Marine Corps Times newspapers. This year’s survey, conducted Dec. 1 through Dec. 8, included more than 1,900 active-duty respondents.

The responses are not representative of the opinions of the military as a whole. The survey group overall under-represents minorities, women and junior enlisted service members, and over-represents soldiers.

But as a snapshot of the professional corps, the responses highlight the challenges Obama faces as he prepares to take command of military careerists with different political and cultural attitudes.

In keeping with previous surveys, nearly half of the respondents described their political views as conservative or very conservative. Slightly more than half said they consider themselves Republicans, 22 percent independents and 13 percent Democrats.
 
One: He's a usurper. He doesn't qualify to be CIC.
Two: He is dishonest.
Three: He is unqualified in every aspect in regards to his job history.
Four: He's led a life filled with bad associations.
Five: He's a pothead and a coke-head who may still be using.
Six: He a socialist.
Seven: He believes in unilateral nuclear disarmament.
Eight: He's a racist.
Nine: He's anti-semitic.
Ten: He's so arrogant he doesn't know what he doesn't know. Under the veil lies an empty suit.

RIGHT ON !! CLICK ON, REV. JAMES MANNING, ON YOUTUBE NUFF SAID
 
Yeah, right. :rolleyes:

2008 Military Times poll: Wary about Obama

Troops cite inexperience, Iraq timetable

By Brendan McGarry - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday Dec 30, 2008 18:02:38 EST

When asked how they feel about President-elect Barack Obama as commander in chief, six out of 10 active-duty service members say they are uncertain or pessimistic, according to a Military Times survey.

In follow-up interviews, respondents expressed concerns about Obama’s lack of military service and experience leading men and women in uniform.

“Being that the Marine Corps can be sent anywhere in the world with the snap of his fingers, nobody has confidence in this guy as commander in chief,” said one lance corporal who asked not to be identified.

For eight years, members of the U.S. military have served under a Republican commander in chief who reflected their generally conservative views and led them to war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Now, the troops face change not only at the very top of the chain of command, as Obama nears his Jan. 20 inauguration, but perhaps in mission, policy and values.

Underlying much of the uncertainty is Obama’s stated 16-month timetable for pulling combat troops out of Iraq, as well as his calls to end the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy to allow gays to serve openly in the military, according to survey responses and interviews.

“How are you going to safely pull combat troops out of Iraq?” said Air Force 1st Lt. Rachel Kleinpeter, an intelligence officer with the 100th Operations Support Squadron at RAF Mildenhall, England. “And if you’re pulling out combat troops, who are you leaving to help support what’s left? What happens if Iraq falls back into chaos? Are we going to be there in five years doing the same thing over again?”

Airforce LT stationed in England, would you really trust her words, besides she is a female, and I know how you feel about feamles in the military. England isn't a combat zone, sure, I can agree with the war when i am 6000 miles away.

When asked who has their best interests at heart — Obama or President George W. Bush — a higher percentage of respondents picked Bush, though Bush has lost ground over time. About half of the respondents said Bush has their best interests at heart this year, the same percentage as last year but a decline from 69 percent in 2004.

Nearly one-third of respondents — including eight out of 10 black service members — said they are optimistic about their incoming boss.

Even some service members who voted against Obama — only 1 in 4 supported him over Sen. John McCain in a pre-election survey of Military Times subscribers —now express goodwill toward him as their new commander in chief.

“Overall, the prospect of having someone who isn’t necessarily tied to old strategies is a good thing,” said Air Force Master Sgt. David Ortegon, who said he voted for McCain. “Sometimes you need a fresh perspective to be able to handle our military readiness and the needs of the nation.”

Senior Enlisted opinions are what matter most, we are the ones fighting the war, he is in the Airforce but I am sure he has been in a while, unlike that lt.

The findings are part of the sixth annual Military Times survey of subscribers to Army Times, Air Force Times, Navy Times and Marine Corps Times newspapers. This year’s survey, conducted Dec. 1 through Dec. 8, included more than 1,900 active-duty respondents.

The responses are not representative of the opinions of the military as a whole. The survey group overall under-represents minorities, women and junior enlisted service members, and over-represents soldiers.

But as a snapshot of the professional corps, the responses highlight the challenges Obama faces as he prepares to take command of military careerists with different political and cultural attitudes.

In keeping with previous surveys, nearly half of the respondents described their political views as conservative or very conservative. Slightly more than half said they consider themselves Republicans, 22 percent independents and 13 percent Democrats.

And of the people they surveyed over half were Republicans, and only 13 were Democrat, I think that makes this survey bias. IMO.
 
And of the people they surveyed over half were Republicans, and only 13 were Democrat, I think that makes this survey bias. IMO.

Irrelevant. This isn't some presidential poll, it's a heartbeat analysis.

I was drawing the comparison to how many military quit under Bush vs. how many will quit under Obama. Congratulations for missing the point.
 
Irrelevant. This isn't some presidential poll, it's a heartbeat analysis.

I was drawing the comparison to how many military quit under Bush vs. how many will quit under Obama. Congratulations for missing the point.

Why dont you post a link... cherry picker.


The responses are not representative of the opinions of the military as a whole. The survey group overall under-represents minorities, women and junior enlisted service members, and over-represents soldiers.

But as a snapshot of the professional corps, the responses highlight the challenges Obama faces as he prepares to take command of military careerists with different political and cultural attitudes.

In keeping with previous surveys, nearly half of the respondents described their political views as conservative or very conservative. Slightly more than half said they consider themselves Republicans, 22 percent independents and 13 percent Democrats.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/12/military_poll_main_122908/

Cherry-Picker640.jpg
 
Irrelevant. This isn't some presidential poll, it's a heartbeat analysis.

I was drawing the comparison to how many military quit under Bush vs. how many will quit under Obama. Congratulations for missing the point.

If you haven't heard, people are getting out of the military like never before, People aren't joining,and just about anybody can join, we are giving waivers to people who have had felonies, even some as serious as rape charges. I want you to look back on this post next Dec, I will tell you how recruiting numbers have picked up, how retention has risen and how the military population as a whole is happier, spending more time with their familes, and the decrease in KIA's
 
And of the people they surveyed over half were Republicans, and only 13 were Democrat, I think that makes this survey bias. IMO.

Why? I thought there was no bias in the military. You guys just do what you are told and are told what to think. I would think all these "Republicans" would be afraid to speak out against the Messiah.
 
I want you to look back on this post next Dec, I will tell you how recruiting numbers have picked up, how retention has risen and how the military population as a whole is happier, spending more time with their familes, and the decrease in KIA's

And I'll keep tabs on the number of dead Americans that were killed over here. Deal?
 
Are we counting the americans that were KIA?

I count the Americans killed on 9/11 as KIA, don't you?

We've been at war for several decades. During the 8 years of Clinton, we just didn't know it. And if you think Obama is going to keep your family safe, you are going to have a rude awakening.
 
And as a military member, you really shouldn't mislead or mischaracterize our military's recruiting efforts....


Word of Warning... you will be called out onto the carpet in this forum for posting b.s.


"DOD is calling this the strongest recruiting year (2008) they've had since fiscal year 2004. Notably, the Army and Marine Corps had raised their recruiting goals for fiscal 2008, as both services continue to grow their ranks to meet the demands of the wars on two fronts. In fact, the Army was the sole active-duty service to exceed its goal by a full 1 percent, recruiting 517 more soldiers than its 80,000 target."




2007 http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/08recruit.htm

2008 http://usmilitary.about.com/od/2008recruitingstatistics/a/september.htm

ALL BRANCHES MET OR EXCEEDED GOALS IN FISCAL YEAR 2008
 
And of the people they surveyed over half were Republicans, and only 13 were Democrat, I think that makes this survey bias. IMO.
Polls are supposed to be random sample of a given group, not adjusted to get an equal number of responses from each political party. Military people generally vote Republican, so you're gonna have a higher number of Republicans in a random sample.

The right-wingers here and elsewhere make the same mistake when complaining about national polls having a Democratic bias, when in fact slightly more Americans identify as Democrats than Republicans, and a lower percentage identify as independent.
 
Polls are supposed to be random sample of a given group, not adjusted to get an equal number of responses from each political party. Military people generally vote Republican, so you're gonna have a higher number of Republicans in a random sample.

The right-wingers here and elsewhere make the same mistake when complaining about national polls having a Democratic bias, when in fact slightly more Americans identify as Democrats than Republicans, and a lower percentage identify as independent.

I appriciate the focus on honesty here. It is rather refreshing.

However, I will point out that national polls are said to be bias by us "right-wingers" in part because they are adjusted to give a certian weight to the breakdown of political parties in this country that is cherry picking, dishonest and misleading. It taints the poll.

Every poll also shows that this country is center-right, politically (overall). Also, many people who register democrat voted republican, or were registered to democrat to influence the primary but were poltically conservative. So looking purely at party affiliation is cherry-picking and convieniently sways the poll in a certain direction.

Weighing it toward one political party, inherently introduces a guaranteed systematic error into the poll. This is reflected in the fact that most every poll that used these methods overstated Obama's lead by a rather large amount.

You want to minimize systematic error and weighing a poll to reflect the registration of democrats to republicans unneccessarily introduces greater systematic error, to the point of making the polls unreliable.
 
As a Black NCO serving in the Army, I am very optimistic, but then I did three tours in Iraq, and one Afganistan tour. It's funny how Marines complain, they are only there for seven moths at a time,

So what exactly are you trying to say about Marines? If were not bitching about something were not happy. Its not our fault your leadership isn't smart enough to see that 13 months is too long to be there.

If your so anti-Bush and and dont think we should be there, then why didnt you get out? Did you join before the war started or after? I dont know how long youve been in, or when you came in, but we were a lot better off with Bush then we were with Clinton. You like those raises you get every year? Kiss those good bye. Kiss your reenlistment bonusses bye-bye also.

You think too many people have died in this war? Do you know how many Marines died in the battle for Iwo Jima in the 5 weeks we fought there? 6,821!!! That was just 5 weeks!

Obama said in an interview that no matter what his military advisors told him, he would pull everyone out of Iraq. I guess he knows more about fighting a war than the generals and admirals who have been doing this thier entire adult life.

Bottom line is, the military lifef is changing, and its gonna get worse.
 
So what exactly are you trying to say about Marines? If were not bitching about something were not happy. Its not our fault your leadership isn't smart enough to see that 13 months is too long to be there.

If your so anti-Bush and and dont think we should be there, then why didnt you get out? Did you join before the war started or after? I dont know how long youve been in, or when you came in, but we were a lot better off with Bush then we were with Clinton. You like those raises you get every year? Kiss those good bye. Kiss your reenlistment bonusses bye-bye also.

You think too many people have died in this war? Do you know how many Marines died in the battle for Iwo Jima in the 5 weeks we fought there? 6,821!!! That was just 5 weeks!

Obama said in an interview that no matter what his military advisors told him, he would pull everyone out of Iraq. I guess he knows more about fighting a war than the generals and admirals who have been doing this thier entire adult life.

Bottom line is, the military lifef is changing, and its gonna get worse.


How many Admirals, or Generals have you heard about being taken out by an IED? The leadership gets their advice from people who are trying to kiss ass and get promoted, or get their Combat infantry Badge ie Gen Petreaus b.k.a Gen Betrayus, was a two star 6 years ago, extended my division another 6 months, then flew home to see his daughter graduate highschool on the day we took fallujah. Then he fast tracks to 4 stars.

You talk about Bonuses being taken away, look at the current MILPER message, bonuses have already decreased by half, and Obama hasnt taken office yet.

what am i saying about Marines (Navy), and Airforce? They have no room to talk, This is an Army war, and yes the Army leadership does suck at time, But Obama will correct it. ( I Hope)
 
And as a military member, you really shouldn't mislead or mischaracterize our military's recruiting efforts....


Word of Warning... you will be called out onto the carpet in this forum for posting b.s.


"DOD is calling this the strongest recruiting year (2008) they've had since fiscal year 2004. Notably, the Army and Marine Corps had raised their recruiting goals for fiscal 2008, as both services continue to grow their ranks to meet the demands of the wars on two fronts. In fact, the Army was the sole active-duty service to exceed its goal by a full 1 percent, recruiting 517 more soldiers than its 80,000 target."




2007 http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/08recruit.htm

2008 http://usmilitary.about.com/od/2008recruitingstatistics/a/september.htm

ALL BRANCHES MET OR EXCEEDED GOALS IN FISCAL YEAR 2008

But how many people ETS (ended their military career) dont let the news article fool you, we are understaffed. I see you post FY 07 and 08, what happened to 2005 http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/may05goals.htm The army has even resorted to Paying servicemen and DOD Civilians 2000 for every person they get to enlist.
 
what am i saying about Marines (Navy), and Airforce? They have no room to talk, This is an Army war, and yes the Army leadership does suck at time, But Obama will correct it. ( I Hope)

You dont know what the F your talking about. You talk about when you went in and took Fallujah? Why did WE have to go back in in Nov 04 and do it right? I guess your trying to say that Marines have no business being there, at least thats what I am hearing. You guys would be screwed if we werent there, and vice versa.

Some people have a different view of the Marines, for example:

General Jon J Pershing, commander of US troops in WWI - "The deadliest thing in the world is a Marine and his rifle"

Douglas McArthur - "I have just returned from visiting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world!”

Ronald Regan - "“Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem"

Eleanor Roosevelt - "The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!"

So if you think we dont belong there, your dead wrong.
 
which has nothing to do with Obama
I'm going to ask you again, please READ.
You continually post short-sighted, knee-jerk statements without any idea what the subject of the thread or tract of the conversation.

You're red text demonstrates you're haste yet again.
My comment wasn't about Obama, is what is response to the hypothetical question posed before it.

It is just as relevant .... the military has suffered alot under Bush.
Its the same point. I guess Bush proved it can be worse didn't he ?
No, it's not the same point, regardless how much wiggle and wish it to be.
You're simply being contrartrian and belligerent for the sake of being contrarian and belligerent. Perhaps after someone calls you on this and then invests a little effort into responding to you and engaging you in conversation, you'll then say that their tone is driving people away.

You've made your point, repeatedly- and apparently to the best of your ability. You don't like the world, you blame Bush, but you can't actually articulate anything past that point. You're work here is done.
 
"DOD is calling this the strongest recruiting year (2008) they've had since fiscal year 2004

Isn't this more a reflection of the employment picture? Historically when unemployment rises, especially in the 18 to 30 age range, enlistment numbers are stronger. And the 'quality' of recruits rises, as more people, with better credentials, are looking for work.
 
It could be a reflection of the employment situation. One thing you do have in the military is job security.
 

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