Outraged by Glenn Beck’s Salvo, Christians Fire Back

So he was entirely socialist - that is how Beck judges - if you might embrace one or two ideas of socialism, then you are a socialist - there is no middle ground in the world of Beck.

Your continued attempts to create a false caricature of Beck only demonstrate your dishonesty.

Paine was considered in favor of social justice, and that quote is often used to support that view.

The quote you provided doesn't demonstrate that.

There are a lot of attempts by leftist academics to misrepresent certain historical figures, ideas, worldviews, etc. as supporting social justice.

In fact, the modern Democrat party is built on an ideology that does precisely that with regards to the ideological outlook of the Framers.

George W Bush, the Catholic Church, the Mormons, the Heritage Foundation, the Lutherans, the Methodists, Marin Luther King Jr., etc. all are confused shag? Or maybe you are looking at social justice meaning equal outcome?

...or you could simply be an ignorant and/or dishonest propagandist looking to ostracize Beck through lies and misdirection that you cannot defend. Instead, you cherry pick quotes that, even when taking out of context, don't logically support the lie you are perpetuating.
 
Again, Beck isn't taking issue with people's faith.
Nor do he besmirch or attack anyone's religion.

He is telling people that if their church embraces social justice they are communist or nazi sympathizers. That is what he said. That the words social justice are code words for communism and nazism.

The point was about dishonest people like Foxpaws who bastardize and politicize religion to serve their agenda. If your church leadership is advancing a political agenda that is inconsistent with your values, you should know.

The use of the word "social justice" is an indicator that this may be the case. If so- Beck suggests that you ask questions and find out if that particular congregation reflects your values. If not, you should go somewhere else. It has NOTHING to do with God. It has nothing to do with your denomination. It has nothing to do with your faith.
But that fact is, leftists are using religion to advance their political, statist cause without necessarily making it know to the public.

And Cal wants you to believe that Beck doesn't have some underlying agenda of his own. Maybe you can believe he was foolish enough not to research what churches use the words 'social justice', but a single google search will show you how much the catholic church uses this term. He also very specifically used 'priests' and 'bishops' in his little tirade. From all indication he is targeting the catholic church.

All of this is irrelevant to foxpaws. She doesn't care.
Today she's conveniently religious.
A pro-abortion woman who has quite proudly tells us...
But today she is conveniently religious and deeply offended.

I have often stated my religious beliefs on this forum Cal - you however have not.

And you can edit that, please.

The fact is that she's repeating a very aggressive and desperate attempt to attack Glenn Beck, to isolate and destroy him. To misrepresent themselves and convince conservative Christians that he is their enemy. She even has repeatedly pounded on the"Mormon" attacks. It's really disgusting. Glenn Beck has been an extremely effective dissenting voice slowing the radical lefts take over of this country. He has cause irreparable damage to the President's brand simple by using the mans own words against him. Because of this, people like foxpaws will destroy him.

And it is very easy to use Beck's words against him. Beck is an entertainer, and if you want to take your political and religious advice from an entertainer, then help yourself. I personally ignore Sean Penn's political ramblings, I know the difference. You Cal, apparently don't.
 
...or you could simply be an ignorant and/or dishonest propagandist looking to ostracize Beck through lies and misdirection that you cannot defend. Instead, you cherry pick quotes that, even when taking out of context, don't logically support the lie you are perpetuating.

So, rather than just blanket-ly discredit things shag - why don't we take this one at a time...

We will start with George Bush's quote - OK - how have I taken 'Social Justice' out of context in this, and isn't President Bush stating how proud he is of his administration's record with promoting social justice?

What am I missing here? Or is George W. Bush wrong?

So we're helping to increase opportunity by relieving debt and opening trade, encouraging reform, and delivering aid that empowers the poor and the marginalized. And the record of this administration in promoting social justice is a strong record and an important record. Social justice begins with building government institutions that are fair and effective and free of corruption.
George W Bush March 5th 2007 Speech discussing Western Hemisphere Policy
 
No, we will not "take this one at a time". The fact is that you are lying about what social justice is and are cherry picking any quote you can to support that lie.

The left has been very effective in defining down the idea of social justice in order to trick people into supporting it. You are perpetuating that deception here and ignoring the context that Beck was talking about.

The fact is that it doesn't matter how many quotes you cite; social justice is not what you say it is. Beck was not talking about what you are talking about and you know it. Your continued attempts to play off the ignorance of others by using out of context quotes or quotes of the idea being misapplied is reprehensible. I would say you should be ashamed of yourself, but you have long ago shown that you are without shame.
 
He is telling people that if their church embraces social justice they are communist or nazi sympathizers. That is what he said. That the words social justice are code words for communism and nazism.
NO. He said that organizations that are fascist,communist, and marxist often use "social justice" as a means of describing their mission. I've explained this and provided examples and pictures earlier in this thread.

If you see the term being used, it's appropriate to investigate and find out how it's being used and make sure the particular church or congregation reflects your understandings and views.

From all indication he is targeting the catholic church.
Is Jim Wallis a Catholic?
Is Jerormiah Write a Catholic?
Are you an idiot or an evil puppet propagandist?

I have often stated my religious beliefs on this forum Cal - you however have not.
I've also never talked about bodily fluids... I'll leave that to you.

And it is very easy to use Beck's words against him.
Especially when you take it out of context, edit it, misrepresent it, and attribute unrelated things to it.

Beck is an entertainer, and if you want to take your political and religious advice from an entertainer, then help yourself.
I personally ignore Sean Penn's political ramblings, I know the difference. You Cal, apparently don't.
You're awfully upset by this entertainer, aren't you?
Is that the fall back position your going to take to salvage the personal and religious smears on Beck in this thread. After those fail to work, you're going to try to marginalize him as just an "entertainer" now?
 
No, we will not "take this one at a time". The fact is that you are lying about what social justice is and are cherry picking any quote you can to support that lie.

The left has been very effective in defining down the idea of social justice in order to trick people into supporting it. You are perpetuating that deception here and ignoring the context that Beck was talking about.

Ah - so you can't do this. You can't admit that the words 'social justice' has meanings beyond Hayek. That George W Bush's administration was proud of how it promoted social justice, how do you justify that Shag... Oh, that's right - you can't.

You can't admit that the term social justice might mean different things to different groups - obviously it meant something different than your 'hayek' meaning to GWBush.

The fact is that it doesn't matter how many quotes you cite; social justice is not what you say it is. Beck was not talking about what you are talking about and you know it. Your continued attempts to play off the ignorance of others by using out of context quotes or quotes of the idea being misapplied is reprehensible. I would say you should be ashamed of yourself, but you have long ago shown that you are without shame.

Beck wants you to assess 'your' church according to 'his' politics.

Do you think the catholic church uses the term 'social justice' like you and Hayek use it?

And if they don't - why didn't Beck state exceptions - that some churches use the words social justice to refer to charity to the poor, and the effort to eliminate poverty.
 
Beck wants you to assess 'your' church according to 'his' politics.
NO. He wants you to assess your church, temple, mosque, ect. using YOUR politics and sensibilities.

why didn't Beck state exceptions - that some churches use the words social justice to refer to charity to the poor, and the effort to eliminate poverty.
He did.
But people like you continue to perpetuate a lie, motivated by politics and the goal of personal destruction.
 
All your dishonest posturing aside, you have not shown that social justice is different from what I said. All you can do is make false distinctions and then cherry pick quotes to perpetuate your lie. the fact that most of the quotes you cite are based in a misapplication of the idea simply makes your reasoning all the more circular.
 
Is Beck so much of a problem for you that you have to lie and smear the man?
 
NO. He said that organizations that are fascist,communist, and marxist often use "social justice" as a means of describing their mission. I've explained this and provided examples and pictures earlier in this thread.

If you see the term being used, it's appropriate to investigate and find out how it's being used and make sure the particular church or congregation reflects your understandings and views.

This is what he said...

I beg you, look for the words "social justice" or "economic justice" on your church Web site. If you find it, run as fast as you can. Social justice and economic justice, they are code words. Now, am I advising people to leave their church? Yes! If I'm going to Jeremiah's Wright's church? Yes! Leave your church. Social justice and economic justice. They are code words. If you have a priest that is pushing social justice, go find another parish. Go alert your bishop and tell them, "Excuse me are you down with this whole social justice thing?" I don't care what the church is. If it's my church, I'm alerting the church authorities: "Excuse me, what's this social justice thing?" And if they say, "Yeah, we're all in that social justice thing," I'm in the wrong place.

I think that says it all...

I wonder if he has alerted the Mormon Church? I wonder if he has left the church -

Is Jim Wallis a Catholic?
Is Jerormiah Write a Catholic?
Are you an idiot or an evil puppet propagandist?

No and No...

And why did he use the words priest and bishop...

You're awfully upset by this entertainer, aren't you?
Is that the fall back position your going to take to salvage the personal and religious smears on Beck in this thread. After those fail to work, you're going to try to marginalize him as just an "entertainer" now?

Yes, I am. He has a fanatical following and they follow him like lemmings.

So, do you place him beyond entertainer? I would love to marginalize him. However, I don't have to - he does that all by himself. All I have to do is post his ridiculous statements.
 
I would love to marginalize him. However, I don't have to - he does that all by himself. All I have to do is post his ridiculous statements.

You say this after you started this thread misrepresenting him and the ideas he talks about in an effort to marginalize him.

If he were "marginalizing himself" you wouldn't need to engage in all the dishonesty and deceit you have engaged in.

You stay classy! :rolleyes:
 
All your dishonest posturing aside, you have not shown that social justice is not what I said. All you can do is make assertions and then cherry pick quotes to perpetuate your lie. the fact that most of the quotes you cite are based in a misapplication of the idea simply makes your reasoning all the more circular.

So, what did GWBush mean by social justice? Was he wrong? If you don't answer that shag - then there really isn't any reason to continue. You obviously don't understand that even the president of the united states views this term differently than you do.

Oh, I know - only you understand the 'true and only' meaning of 'social justice'. Well, shag I know the answer to life, the universe and everything.

42 trumps Hayek every time.
 
You say this after you started this thread misrepresenting him and the ideas he talks about in an effort to marginalize him.

If he were "marginalizing himself" you wouldn't need to engage in all the dishonesty and deceit you have engaged in.

You stay classy! :rolleyes:

I never misrepresented him... and he marginalized himself...

Every major religion has taken him to task on this - Baptists, Mormons, Catholics, Jews, etc.

Heck I'll start a 'stupid things Beck says thread' and I won't have to comment at all - they will speak for themselves.

You will be the one trying to explain them - just like you and Cal tried to justify this perfect example.
 
So, what did GWBush mean by social justice? Was he wrong? If you don't answer that shag - then there really isn't any reason to continue. You obviously don't understand that even the president of the united states views this term differently than you do.

So Dubya used it incorrectly, likely to appeal to a populace that has been deceived by a defining down of the term over generations. That means that the definition is different then how William Godwin explained it in his 1793 work Enquiry Concerning Political Justice (widely considered the first treatise on social justice), Then how Marx explained it in his works, then what Lenin, Mao and Mussolini understood it as and different then what John Rawls explained in his work A Theory Of Justice (widely considered the most defining contemporary work on social justice)?

That is exceedingly presumptuous of you.

42 trumps Hayek every time.

So far your leftist hit list consists of:

Hayek
Beck
Limbaugh
Coulter

...anyone else I am missing?

Whenever any of these people come up in this forum you lie about them.
 
I wonder if he has alerted the Mormon Church? I wonder if he has left the church -
Again, you are now deliberately ignoring the point being made here.
If the Mormon church were using the term "social justice" as a way of advocating statism- and more importantly, if his particular church or the leader of his congregation were, he would.

And why did he use the words priest and bishop...
Because those are two words usually associated with the leaders of church- INCLUDING the Mormon church.

Yes, I am. He has a fanatical following and they follow him like lemmings.
Really? And you base this on what?
What did you come to this conclusion, because it seems at odds with what you said about him a year ago....before he really emerged as a credible and effective voice in opposition of the massive expansion of government that you and Obama support.

You used the word "lemmings"- which implies that they blindly follow - right off the edge of cliff. Care to support this attack with something?

All I have to do is post his ridiculous statements.
...then you shouldn't feel the need to mischaracterize, misrepresent, and take out of context his statements, yet you feel the need to do so.

You conveniently ignore all of the facts and history that doesn't support your political assassination. You refuse to recognize the 20th century application of the term "social justice." You refuse to acknowledge the historical conext in which Beck is referring to. You refuse to recognize the context in which Beck the comment while speaking without a teleprompter on his 3 hour radio broadcast. And you continue to use religious bigotry to bash Beck's conversion to Mormonism while trying to imply that he's deliberately engaged in some kind of twisted effort to proselytize that religion.

You're really sick liar. I don't know how you sleep with yourself at night. You have absolutely no integrity.

What's it like to embrace a political philosophy that you know can only be thrust upon the public without their knowledge or through deceit? What's it like to rely on intimidation and personal destruction to silence a critic rather than relying on the strength of your philosophy or argument?

I don't know, you'll have to explain. I can't relate to you or those you work and associate with.
 
So Dubya used it incorrectly, likely to appeal to a populace that has been deceived by a defining down of the term over generations. That means that the definition is different then what how William Godwin explained it in his 1793 work Enquiry Concerning Political Justice (widely considered the first treatise on social justice), Then how Marx explained it in his works, then what Lenin, Mao and Mussolini understood it as and different then what John Rawls explained in his work A Theory Of Justice (widely considered the most contemporary and defining work on social justice)?

That is exceedingly presumptuous of you.

So, do you think that most main stream churches use the term 'social justice' as the 'populace' uses it - or as Hayek used it?

I would imagine the normal viewer of Beck's show, who goes to a church that uses the term 'social justice' on their website (the populace term, not the Hayek definition), isn't going to be thinking about 'well, which way is my church using this term?" They probably don't know that Beck is strictly going by Godwin/Rawls/Hayek, and that their church is using it in a whole different way - GWBush's way... ;)

So which one Shag -

Either Beck is misleading people in hopes that they will be leaving perfectly good churches, or he doesn't realize that many churches use the term 'social justice' to mean charity to the poor.

You have a choice - which one.

Whenever any of these people come up in this forum you lie about them.

No, I point out their lies and their misrepresentations and bending of the truth.
 
What matters is the context Beck was referring to.

Again, you have to engage in misdirection to smear Beck, yet you claim his marginalizes himself?

The same holds true for all those others who's "lies" you claim to "point out".
 
Again, you are now deliberately ignoring the point being made here.
If the Mormon church were using the term "social justice" as a way of advocating statism- and more importantly, if his particular church or the leader of his congregation were, he would.

But they came out against Beck on this - look at the quotes and source I posted earlier Cal. He doesn't even acknowledge that his church practices social justice. He needs to clarify that social justice in many organized religions means something different than social justice in the strictly political sense. He hasn't done that.

Because those are two words usually associated with the leaders of church- INCLUDING the Mormon church.

I believe Mormons have Bishops, but not priests. Those two term are only together in a very few religions.

Really? And you base this on what?
What did you come to this conclusion, because it seems at odds with what you said about him a year ago....before he really emerged as a credible and effective voice in opposition of the massive expansion of government that you and Obama support.

You used the word "lemmings"- which implies that they blindly follow - right off the edge of cliff. Care to support this attack with something?
9/12.. lemmings...

...then you shouldn't feel the need to mischaracterize, misrepresent, and take out of context his statements, yet you feel the need to do so.

You conveniently ignore all of the facts and history that doesn't support your political assassination. You refuse to recognize the 20th century application of the term "social justice." You refuse to acknowledge the historical conext in which Beck is referring to. You refuse to recognize the context in which Beck the comment while speaking without a teleprompter on his 3 hour radio broadcast. And you continue to use religious bigotry to bash Beck's conversion to Mormonism while trying to imply that he's deliberately engaged in some kind of twisted effort to proselytize that religion.

No Cal, you refuse to admit that the church uses the words social justice far differently than what 20th century scholarly and political applications are. Beck isn't referring historically to anything. He is asking you to go to your church's website and look for specific words - two of them... He didn't say to look for the words 'get politically active with your church,' 'work at equalizing outcomes for the poor,' or a myriad of other options - he used words that are on almost every religion's website - including his own. Words that have a far different meaning to the church than to Marx.

And I could care less what he converted to. I just think he is being hypocritical here.

And don't make excuses for his 3 hour broadcast. He had his little 'visual aids' all ready to go on this - his hammer and sickle along with his swastika. He had this whole little segment planned out far in advance.

You're really sick liar. I don't know how you sleep with yourself at night. You have absolutely no integrity.

What's it like to embrace a political philosophy that you know can only be thrust upon the public without their knowledge or through deceit? What's it like to rely on intimidation and personal destruction to silence a critic rather than relying on the strength of your philosophy or argument?

I don't know, you'll have to explain. I can't relate to you or those you work and associate with.

Here it is easy to go after Beck. He is trying to assert his political beliefs into your personal religious beliefs.

If anyone on the left had done this you would have be skewering them, and so would have I. There is no way anyone should attack your religion based on their political beliefs. And that is what Beck is doing. He is attacking my religious beliefs, and telling me I should leave my church because my church believes in social justice (yes the 'populace' definition).

Without Beck clarifying social justice's 'the 20th century scholarly and political' definition is in play here, he is misleading people.

Look at the big furor it cause throughout all sorts of religions and media outlets. All because he didn't clarify. Or maybe he didn't think he had to clarify.

Did he do it on purpose? Did he not look into the catholic version or the mormon version of social justice?
 
What matters is the context Beck was referring to.

Again, you have to engage in misdirection to smear Beck, yet you claim his marginalizes himself?

The same holds true for all those others who's "lies" you claim to "point out".

No it doesn't have to do with just the context Beck was referring to - it has to do with how the church refers to it. He was referring to looking for those words on a church's website - so he needs to refer to the term in the same context as the church.

I tell you to look for the large variety of 'blues' on a music site. However, I am an artist and I always think that everyone knows the term 'blue' refers to a color. But, in the music world 'blues' refers to a type of music, not color.

I need to define 'blues' as the color reference, to differentiate it from the musical term 'blues'. I am looking for reference to teal, navy blue, cyan, sky blue, but since I haven't made myself clear I will get back reference to Sam Cooke.

I am in the wrong in the 'blues' scenario. I need to make sure my usage of the term is the same as the place where I am using the term.

Just as Beck needed to define 'social justice' in his usage as different than how churches use the term.
 
But they came out against Beck on this - look at the quotes and source I posted earlier Cal.
"They?" Who are "they?"
And how does that support your theory that he's proselytizing some kind of theocratic state if he's alienating even his own chosen religion? You're all over the place on this, but your point is to destroy, to find some kind of toxic claim that'll stick. It has nothing to do with integrity or intellectual honesty.

He doesn't even acknowledge that his church practices social justice.
You refuse to acknowledge anything I'm saying or explaining. As is typical of you, you're just restating your initial attack over and over, changing the phrasing.

He needs to clarify that social justice in many organized religions means something different than social justice in the strictly political sense. He hasn't done that.
He has.
I have.
It's just not in the single paragraph that you posted.

I believe Mormons have Bishops, but not priests.
So you were intentionally misleading then.

9/12.. lemmings...
Really? Why do you say that.
Can you explain why?


No Cal, you refuse to admit that the church uses the words social justice far differently than what 20th century scholarly and political applications are. Beck isn't referring historically to anything. He is asking you to go to your church's website and look for specific words - two of them... He didn't say to look for the words 'get politically active with your church,' 'work at equalizing outcomes for the poor,' or a myriad of other options - he used words that are on almost every religion's website - including his own. Words that have a far different meaning to the church than to Marx.
And all of that was contained in that single paragraph you've quoted? He didn't say anything before, after, or since on the subject

Did you not read what I wrote earlier about Father Couglin?
Did you read about Jim Wallis?
Did you read about Rev. Write?

He even mentioned Rev. Write specifically in the paragraph you quoted. A marixst liberation theology church.

And I could care less what he converted to. I just think he is being hypocritical here.
Again, where's the hypocrisy?

And don't make excuses for his 3 hour broadcast. He had his little 'visual aids' all ready to go on this - his hammer and sickle along with his swastika. He had this whole little segment planned out far in advance.
Really?? He used visuals on a radio show?


You have no shame, foxpaws.

Did he do it on purpose? Did he not look into the catholic version or the mormon version of social justice?
You're attempt to frame this as some kind of "Catholic bashing" or "catholic vs mormon" conflict has been noted.
Your handlers will be proud.

As I said. You have no shame.
I don't know how you sleep or look at yourself in the mirror.
You have no honor or integrity.
 
Fox, your entire argument is premised on the exceedingly conceited assumption that your definition of social justice is right.

If your understanding of the term is not consistent with Rawls or Godwin, it is wrong. It doesn't matter if many others share your misunderstanding. The truth is the truth and your entire argument hinges on ignoring the truth.

Attempt to inject false distinctions of social justice only serve as cheap rationalizations of your self-delusion.

Show me where there is a separate conception of social justice that developed over the centuries. The closest you have come is a quote by Thomas Paine that doesn't even refer to social justice by inference unless you assume it does (circular reasoning).

I can trace the conception of social justice back to the 18th century with Godwin and Condorcet. All the quotes you cite about social justice since that time merely serve as circumstantial evidence of the concept of social justice being defined down for generations and many people throughout society misunderstanding the term.
 
Fox, your entire argument is premised on the exceedingly conceited assumption that your definition of social justice is right.

My definition (which is yours shag, when I am discussing this with someone who knows Godwin/Rawls) is immaterial here.

What is important is how the places that Beck is sending his viewers define the term.

As in my example - if you are defining it one way - but the place you are sending your viewers too defines it a different way, you need to make clear the differences.

If I were going to discuss social justice with my Catholic friends I would make sure that first we were going to be discussing the same thing - either Rawls/Godwin or the Catholic church version. I wouldn't assume that they would know that when condemned social justice as a poor way to create a truly equal and fair society, that they would know I was using the term as Godwin would. I would first clarify that when I used social justice, I wasn't using it like they use it when they talk about social justice and charity for the poor.

They would think I was nuts if I didn't clarify the terms in use.

If your understanding of the term is not consistent with Rawls, or Godwin, it is wrong. It doesn't matter if many others share your misunderstanding. The truth is the truth and your entire argument hinges on ignoring the truth.

Attempt to inject false distinctions only serve as cheap rationalizations of your self-delusion.

And your argument falls apart shag when you don't realize you need to make sure you are using the terms the same way as your audience is using them. If you are talking to Catholics and telling them to go to their website and look for the term 'social justice' and then leave your church if you see those words, you need to clarify how your usage of the term might be different than how their church uses the term.

How many catholics do you think know that the term social justice has very bad associations with communists and nazis - probably very few, because they view the term as a good one, one associated with Jesus and not with Marx.

Know your audience shag - and if you really are thinking about law - you need to learn this - you need to talk at the same level as your jury - not 6 grades of higher education above them.
 
What is important is how the places that Beck is sending his viewers define the term.

So, in passing judgment on Beck and his statements, the context of Beck's statement is now irrelevant to understanding Beck's statement?!

You just tipped your hand.

This thread you started is about perpetuating a smear and a lie aimed at driving a wedge between Beck and Christian conservatives in order to marginalize him. He is that much of a threat to the left, apparently.
 
if you are defining it one way - but the place you are sending your viewers too defines it a different way, you need to make clear the differences.
Did you hear the rest of the radio show? Did you see him address this subject on TV?

Apparently not. You are you making this dishonest claim and ugly attack based on the single, isolated paragraph that you read.

You have no shame, Foxpaws.

But I still want to learn more about the visual aids that you took offense to that he was using while ON THE RADIO.
 

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