Rough idle..

Bigrigls:

Responsive to pedal: yes
Bag of marbles: no

When the first set of codes came up i decided to replace all coils and plugs, replaced fue filter, air filter, oil and oil filter.

Doing as jrand said.... praying.

This did nothing to fix the car.

CEL came back on ...

This started roughly two weeks ago and I've driven as minimal as possible. Maybe 75 miles since I started thread. When I do drive .. I make sure to keep rpms 2500 or lower. Trying to baby her but not lose my job. I get rides when I can to and from work. Otherwise its a 7mile trip to and 7miles back.

Now I think its time for an engine diag and make sure nothing serious has failed... ill post results of diag asap
 
So it's running rough still?
and engine idle, it does or doesn't sound like the video above you posted reference to?
by bag of marbles I meant, at idle it sounds like metal knocking and grinding.


A P0304 code means that the the car's computer has detected that one of the engine's cylinders is not firing properly.

something is not right on #4, its' still misfiring, could be fuel delivery rather than spark issue.
Fuel rail might have to come out for inspection also. Injector could be sticking.

if not, it's running like crap, possibly the exhaust cam has skipped a notch off the timing.
 
Yes. It still runs rather rough. More so at idle. When in motion, after maybe 5-10mph the shakiness from the erratic idle goes away.

There is knocking but no grinding and yes it is metal sounding.
 
Calling around trying to find a somewhat knowledgeable sounding mechanic.. I had one tell me he has rebuilt these engines and the timing being off wouldn't cause a misfire unless a whole side wasn't firing.

Seemed unlogical to me for that to be true unless the timing was severely off... how true is his statement?
 
Unless there is a vacuum leak you haven't found, like I said it may be too much slack in the timing chain due to wear down of tensioners and guides.

before (as suggested already) opening it for chain work, you'd want to first resolve the misfire CODE you say keeps coming back.
 
uh actually i said this:
with all the issues you have you need to go to lincoln/ford dealer and pay the diagnostic fee. they will tell you everything thats wrong with it. then come back here and post the results before you have them fix anything. someone can likely give you decent, money saving advice then.
 
I was told in short terms... don't put anymore money into it.. the valves are what's knocking. The cost to fix would be abiut the same as replacing the whole engine..... if I remember correctly something along the lines about the knocking coming from around the intake area.

Time for a new LS ... then again maybe not.
 
sacsfin3st said:
I was told in short terms... don't put anymore money into it.. the valves are what's knocking. The cost to fix would be abiut the same as replacing the whole engine..... if I remember correctly something along the lines about the knocking coming from around the intake area.

Time for a new LS ... then again maybe not.
Click to expand...

"Valve knock"? Haven't heard of that before......
 
LS4me said:
"Valve knock"? Haven't heard of that before......
Click to expand...

That was going off my not so good memory and having, whom I thiught was knowledgeable.... since he simply listened to it and nothing more... I decided to make the final effort of making sure this engine was shot or not... I think I meant a rod knock.

Took it to the dealer... after $130 diagnostic fee... results are in...

uploadfromtaptalk1395269102039.jpg

uploadfromtaptalk1395269135521.jpg

uploadfromtaptalk1395269189198.jpg


I was informed I should

Replace battery.
Replace suspension parts.
Replace tensioners guides and chains.

They want 2900$ .... I can get another LS for that. :/

Suspension and the battery I am fairly sure I can tackle myself... the tensioners and the rest. No way.

Unsure what to do......

uploadfromtaptalk1395269102039.jpg


uploadfromtaptalk1395269135521.jpg


uploadfromtaptalk1395269189198.jpg
 

uploadfromtaptalk1395271632887.jpg

Sorry, my OCD kicked in plus my neck was already sore before looking at this.

Possibly the exhaust cam has jumped a tooth on bank 1. Timing is off.

Can't answer "What is mode 6" for ya. Unsure.

​

uploadfromtaptalk1395271632887.jpg
 
somebody with a gen1 shop manual might be able to quick search that 'mode 6'.. kinda doubt it will help you tho.

might be able to shop around for the recommended work of Replace tensioners guides and chains.... but from the image little rig rotated for ya, it doesnt look like they dug into it to know for sure what the problem is? im not sure where you are getting the replace tensioner guides/chains unless that was a verbal thing...or maybe it was on the estimate (i dont think you posted that picture). either way, i would take their word for it. youre probably not going to get a better opinion than theirs...

lincoln/ford dealer (esp lincoln) is always a sky high estimate (IMO). you can try shopping around to see if you can get a better quote from another dealer or someone you can trust. how many miles on the 2000? maybe return the new coils (if possible) and sell/scrap/partout and just get somethin else.

----------------

and to think yall just automatically said 'coils' 'yep uhh huh just gotta be the coils' <eye-roll>
 
are the new plugs gapped correctly?
i didnt read it so i figured i would ask. sometimes its easy stuff, and sometimes dealers miss stuff.
 
^
"It's them coils I tell ya" ... no, There is a timing chain concern, it's noted by the tech as SUSPECT CAM TIMING,
leaving that new coils & plugs are fine, it's firing out of order all of bank 1 and it can't compensate it out that far.

little rig ... funny
smiley-score006.gif
 
cant really tell from the pic if that is the tech's suspicion or the customer's suspicion... if you look just above that it is listing the things the owner told the service rep. due to not seeing the whole pic i cant really tell where customer complaint and tech findings (or maybe 'suspicions' in this case) begin and end..
 


CHECK & REPORT:
- CHECK ENGINE LIGHT IS ON, RUNS ROUGH, CUSTOMER REPLACED ALL COILS AND PLUGS, HAD CODE P0304 AND P0171 AND CODES CAME BACK




ASSIGNED TO: TECH 153 PERRY, ROBERT LIC# 9666

PERFORMED: EEC TEST - P0174, 304. MODE 6 - ALL BANK 1 CYL MISSFIRES RECORDED (1,2,3,4)
VERIFIED CYL 1,2,3,4 MISSFIRE PRESENT, ALSO VERIFIED BANK 1 NOISE. SUSPECT CAM TIMING CONCERN.

* NEEDS TEARDOWN + INSPECT BANK 1



= Loose stretched chains, worn down cracked tensioners and guides.
:: caused chain to skip one of two notches on one of the cam sprockets. (most likely the exhaust side)




That motor has been ridden hard. (another word is "BEAT ON")

^ thats what I suspect at this point BUT I've been wrong plenty.
 
So I am looking into a shop fixing the timing chain issue... and hopefully it resolves my whole dilemma here.. I have done so much already... Seems $1000 is going to be the damage + parts..

Going off the quote from Ford... I have the following from fordpartsgiants ...

Part Number - Description

xw4Z-6020-AA - Timing Cover Gasket Grommet
2w9Z-6020-AA - Timing Cover Gastet Lower
2w9Z-6020-BA - Timing Cover Gastet Upper
2w9Z-6700-AA - Crankshaft Oil Seal

and the timing chain set from rockauto..
https://www.rockauto.com/dbphp/x,ca...756,d,2000_LINCOLN_LS_3.9L_V8_Timing_Set.html

Is there anything else I am missing? Anything I should maybe have replaced since they will have it off anyway?
 
jrand said:
uh actually i said this:
with all the issues you have you need to go to lincoln/ford dealer and pay the diagnostic fee. they will tell you everything thats wrong with it. then come back here and post the results before you have them fix anything. someone can likely give you decent, money saving advice then.
Click to expand...

Yes, I misquoted you and I also misunderstood the fact that he already did COP replacement, so double fail on my part. ;- (
 
sacsfin3st said:
No.. was unaware of this... I also wasn't asking for a diagnosis so much an opinion, much like what is givin in other threads. :)

Did get the codes read again..

P0304 p0172 and p0174

Was told the timing being off could cause lean on one side and rich on the other....

He also noticed the coolant temp sensor was reading 225 but the car was barely hitting the first line on dash. Said that it wouldn't cause the 0304 but could also cause the 0172 & 0174 combo.

Think ill have him take a look at the timing chains/tensioners & guides. See if its showing excessive wear and replace if needed....


If anyone has any other suggestions, please chime in ..

Ty
Click to expand...

“ Was told the timing being off could cause lean on one side and rich on the other...“ Bring this Old Relic back from the crypt...I’m almost certain I will be needing a new timing chain kit now :(
 
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