MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
ryan, answer your own questions. Why is diesel oil a very high detergent oil in the first place? What are the tolerances run in a diesel engine vs a gas engine? What are the temps that are run?
Shell Rotella 15W40 Motor Oil
- Thread starter Glorywagon
- Start date
Glorywagon
Well-Known LVC Member
I quite I never seen anyone burn up an engine using RotellaT 15W-40 A diesel with a turbo is a he-- of a lot hotter then a gasoline and I don't believe they would be using it if it was burnt.Sorry MonsterMark you lost on that one. Have a good one.
MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
The Ford TSB 02-1-9 shows the recommended use of 5W30, or (5W20 for better fuel economy) for all E-Series Vans.
For the MarkVI, the 'ol standby 10W30 would be appropriate for use in the WV climes.
The Jeep Grand Cherokee should run 10W30.
MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
What are the tolerances between the motors and why do you think they have 2-1/2 times the oil capacity?
MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
LOL. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.
bryantaylor
Dedicated LVC Member
because of all of the soot they produce
the average diesel motor is over 14:1 comp, average gas is about 9.5:1, and last easily 4 times as long. i think the diesel has a little tighter tolerences
oil temps get up there because of the turbo. most gas motors are not turbo.
Glorywagon
Well-Known LVC Member
All I know is that my Mark VIII got quieter then it has ever been under my ownership.
What the hel_ its just a $1200.00 old Lincoln.Not a $60,000.00 Car. My saying is Drive them and junk them. Thats All folks:Bang :waving:
What the hel_ its just a $1200.00 old Lincoln.Not a $60,000.00 Car. My saying is Drive them and junk them.
Thats All folks:Bang :waving:
The Rev
Dedicated LVC Member
What the hel_ its just a $1200.00 old Lincoln.Not a $60,000.00 Car. My saying is Drive them and junk them.
Seems your putting a lot of money into this car you plan on junking.
-Coilovers
-Looking for new rims
Those are two very expensive propositions for a car that (like you said) your just going to junk.
Don't be ashamed of your mistake, but if your looking to blow an engine just do what I did; replace the water pump and don't bleed the system properly and overheat til the engine ticks and knocks and wont start.
I'll admit I screwed up, I'll also admit my Mark is nicknamed "the black hole" because of all the time, money, and gas it sucks up.
MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
Nothing to do with tolerances.
The high durability of a diesel engine has more to do with the fact that they are overbuilt and the diesel creates smaller changes in cylinder pressure when compared to a gas engine, and also the fact that the diesel has much lower rotating speeds, so the parts can be heavier. Because of the high-compression ratios and resulting high cylinder pressure in diesel engines, they must be built to withstand more punishment than gas engines. The beefier parts include a thicker block and cylinder heads and stronger connecting rods, pistons, crankshaft, and valves. And a little discovery about how much more a diesel costs vs a gas engine might tell you more about the components used.
Diesel fuel is also a better lubricant than gasoline so is less harmful to the oil film on piston rings and cylinder bores.
But you are correct to know that the oils used in diesels are higher detergent because of the soot particulate that they create.
But, diesels don’t necessarily last longer. They tend to have more miles put on per year and the number of years is more a measure of longevity. Plus, diesels are run for thousands of hours because they often are run continuously without ever being shut down, or shut down only infrequently. This is what really accounts for the long life. Gas engines tend to be started much more frequently and everyone knows cold startup is where 80% of the wear occurs. Diesels also require stricter oil change intervals due to the wear on the oil, thus the larger oil capacities for the motors. More oil breaks down slower, but it still breaks down.
bryantaylor
Dedicated LVC Member
right on, thats why its commonly refered to as "fuel oil"
vr4
Dedicated LVC Member
i run diesel oil (motorcraft 15w40) in my 3000gt and it doesnt get black too quickly.
diesel oil only gets black quickly IN A DIESEL. there is a reason for that. you want high detergents? drop a bottle of mercon V in your crankcase and drain in a week.
bryantaylor
Dedicated LVC Member
Glorywagon
Well-Known LVC Member
I'm not putting on new rims? I am gonna change the door and fender tho.Coil conversion about the price of a couple of air bags. I can resale the parts after all I use to have a salvage yard and still have about 50 classic junk cars.But thats all they are is Salvage. The only car I'm really fixing is My 81 Mark VI The others are just drivers.
Glorywagon
Well-Known LVC Member
You might know your oil but I don't belive you know much about diesel engine's in heavy equipment.monstermark said:
My son has 3 semis year 1995 1997 1985 all have over a Million miles on the. And they do run a 400 mile radius of Little Rock Ar. They Idell about 8 hours a day. So they not only have miles they also have lots of idell time.
We change oil every 15,000 mile. 10 gallon Rotella 15W-40 per truck. I have never drained burnt oil from these trucks. I know company's that don't change there oil but every 30,000 miles.
If cold starts are what screws up a gas motor. Then it seems like a oil that don't all drain back to the pan would be better. Lucas oil company claims no dry starts.
As far as Ford knows everything why are there engine blowing spark plugs? My owners manual doesn't say 5W-20 Does yours?
I"ll bet Nascar don't use a 5W-20 . Humm maybe I will ask Mark Martin . I drove for his Dad Julian for five years.
Do you know your major trucking co. will mix there used motor oil with diesel and burn it in there trucks.
Glorywagon
Well-Known LVC Member
Hey if you add a quart of transmission fluid to your 15W-40 woun't you have the same thing as a 5W-30 ? I don't want to argue the point . Was just wondering.
MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
Funny, we just had one of the largest engine manufacturers in the world complete a study that took over a year to complete with our additive. Used Valvoline SAE 30 as the baseline. Minimum engine gains of 2% horsepower with maximum average gains of almost 10% were realized after over 20 tests (all computer and environmental controlled pulls). All I'm going to say.
And one of the top universities in the United States recently completed a kinematic viscosity test using a Cannon viscosity tester on our stuff. Let me paraphrase their conclusion without breaching confidentiality: 'It can be concluded that during testing, oil viscosity breakdown did not occur...... The oil shows great potential and has gotten the attention of many.'
You might want to reread what I wrote. You seem to agree with me but yet you are arguing with all these points below.
And I wrote: "They tend to have more miles put on per year and the number of years is more a measure of longevity. Plus, diesels are run for thousands of hours because they often are run continuously without ever being shut down, or shut down only infrequently. This is what really accounts for the long life."
And I wrote: "Diesels also require stricter oil change intervals due to the wear on the oil, thus the larger oil capacities for the motors. More oil breaks down slower, but it still breaks down." And we're talking 40 quarts of oil in a diesel truck engine vs 6 qts in a car.
It is not the oil, it is the film they claim they are leaving on the contact surfaces. I'll leave the claims up to the FTC.
Because of the short threads used on aluminum heads.
I bet your manual says 5W30 so why are you using 15W40? Because higher numbers sound better?
I could tell you what Nascar uses (I won't here) because it happens to be the same stuff I sell.
And that has to do with what again?Do you know your major trucking co. will mix there used motor oil with diesel and burn it in there trucks.
I tried to help but this seems to be going nowhere, so best of luck to you and your automotive endeavors. I'll get back to selling top-end racing components, including oil, to those in the know.
Glorywagon
Well-Known LVC Member
Just messing with you man. Did make a good post anyway. Catch you later on another post. Danny
Tiltedhalo
Well-Known LVC Member
Oil
I cant believe this whole thread is still going and going, but I love good debate.
1- physics my friends, physics and engineering. Read up its pretty basic.
2- NASCAR engines do use 20W50 oils thats the way they are built. 90 degree V8's designed 50 and 60 years ago, technology hasn't gone far there.
3- Diesels have very loose tolerances in general, the bearings need a larger oil cushion because of the higher shock loads.
4- diesels break down oil faster and they have allot of detergents to help break down deposits, but have capacities 10X lager per volume then gas engines in your family sedan.
5- Simple- use of heavy oils in late model MOD motors will cause premature damage and parts failure. Maybe not today or tomorrow or 5K, but you will greatly reduce its life span.
I cant believe this whole thread is still going and going, but I love good debate.
1- physics my friends, physics and engineering. Read up its pretty basic.
2- NASCAR engines do use 20W50 oils thats the way they are built. 90 degree V8's designed 50 and 60 years ago, technology hasn't gone far there.
3- Diesels have very loose tolerances in general, the bearings need a larger oil cushion because of the higher shock loads.
4- diesels break down oil faster and they have allot of detergents to help break down deposits, but have capacities 10X lager per volume then gas engines in your family sedan.
5- Simple- use of heavy oils in late model MOD motors will cause premature damage and parts failure. Maybe not today or tomorrow or 5K, but you will greatly reduce its life span.
Glorywagon
Well-Known LVC Member
MonsterMark
Dedicated LVC Member
[snickers] Our additives for racing are nearly 8 times the kinematic viscosity of Mobil 1 Racing 10W40 or Amsoil High-Performance 10W40 at 40C and still approximately 5 times that at 100C.
A 'DNF' due to oil viscosity breakdown is not in our vocabulary.
Glorywagon
Well-Known LVC Member
Sure had to work hard to keep this post going. Hope you all have a good tomorrow. And God Bless and Good Night Danny,Sandy
merkurmadness
New LVC Member
I've used heavier than recomended oils in my engines that were tired.(to buy more time untill rebuild) and in every case it worked. although different parts wear faster than others it seemed to help w/rod and main bearings at the cost of cam/lifter wear.(I replace them anyway!) the problem is I was dealing w/pushrod engines and the replacment costs were low. these mod. motors cams are expensive! unless I were going to sell the car or upgrade cams I would'nt recomend going that heavy of weight oil.(time it takes to get to the rotating surfaces ie accelerated wear) just my .02
Glorywagon
Well-Known LVC Member
First report on oil change My wife drove it to Lillte Rock today 60 miles.Gas mileage droped from 25.4 average to 24.2 So it will be changed asap.
My wife drove it to Lillte Rock today 60 miles.Gas mileage droped from 25.4 average to 24.2 So it will be changed asap. 
Compression rations have zero to do with how small the oil galleys and passages are in a particular engine.
ALSO.. you are missing one of the key points that MonsterMark was mentioning.
There are NO cam bearings in the 4.6
the aluminum journal IS the outer cam bearing surface...ANY decrease in oil supply on start up scores these bearings, or lack there of.
Show me a diesel that has OHC with no cam bearings...
And show me a diesel that has the same oil pump design as the 4.6 mod motor.
P.S. most diesels I run into are 20:1 compression but it's still pointless in this topic.
First report on oil change
There are many "little" reasons to run a lighter oil.
you just hit on one of the little reasons that is getting bigger everyday.
No need to pump "west texas crude" thru there when some light sewing machine oil will do just fine.
Ever listen to a 4.6 mod motor without the accessory belt on the car?
sounds like a damned sewing machine..(lol)