So, WHO here is burning a Koran this Sat?

Boston.com
The Boston Globe

JEFF JACOBY

'Honor' killing comes to the US

By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | August 10, 2008

NO ONE knows just how many Muslim girls and women are murdered each year in the name of family "honor," since their deaths frequently go unreported and unpunished. The cases that do come to light are ghastly. "Women and young girls are set ablaze, strangled, shot at, clubbed, stabbed, tortured, axed, or stoned to death," a United Nations report noted in 2004. "Their bodies are found mutilated with their throat slit, or they are chopped into pieces and thrown in a ditch."

The report singled out as especially horrifying the honor killing in Pakistan of "a 16-year-old girl who was reportedly electrocuted to death after being drugged with sleeping pills and being tied to a wooden bed with iron chains." Her offense: marrying a boy from the wrong community. Countless others have lost their lives for refusing an arranged marriage, wearing Western-style clothing, having a boyfriend, or even being raped.

Recently, the Saudi human rights activist Wajeha al-Huwaidar wrote a scathing essay characterizing honor killings as a scourge peculiar to the "Greater Middle East," with its entrenched culture of misogyny and male supremacy. Her article was prompted by the lynching of 17-year-old Du'a al-Aswad, a Kurdish girl stoned to death by a mob of Iraqi men. (The essay has been translated by the Middle East Media Research Institute, which also provides a link to a gruesome cellphone video of the lynching.) "From Pakistan and Afghanistan through Iran, the Middle East, and all the way to Morocco," Huwaidar wrote, "this entire part of the world [is full of] defeated and dejected men, whose only way to gain some sort of victory is by beating their women to death."

In the last few months, there have been news reports of a Jordanian man murdering his daughter "to cleanse the family's honor" after she kept leaving home without permission; another Jordanian, 22 years old, who gave the same reason - "family honor" - for killing his pregnant sister; a Saudi woman beaten and shot by her father after he discovered her having an online correspondence with a man on Facebook; and two Arab brothers in Israel, who strangled their sister after learning that she was involved in a romantic relationship.

But while honor killings may be more prevalent in the Middle East, no longer are they unknown in the West.

In the Atlanta suburb of Jonesboro last month, a Pakistani immigrant allegedly strangled his 25-year-old daughter with a bungee cord because she was determined to end her arranged marriage and had gotten involved with a new man. According to the Atlanta Journal Constitution, Sandeela Kanwal's father, Chaudhry Rashid, "told police he is Muslim and that extramarital affairs and divorce are against his religion [and] that's why he killed her." In court last week, a detective quoted Rashid: "God will protect me. God is watching me. I strangled my daughter."

In Upstate New York a few weeks earlier, Waheed Allah Mohammad, an immigrant from Afghanistan, was charged with attempted murder after repeatedly stabbing his 19-year-old sister. The Rochester Democrat and Chronicle reported that Mohammad was "infuriated because his younger sister was going to clubs, wearing immodest clothing, and planning to leave her family for a new life in New York City" - she was a "bad Muslim girl," he told sheriff's investigators.

On New Year's Day in Irving, Texas, the bullet-riddled bodies of the Said sisters - Sarah, 17, and Amina, 18 - were found in an abandoned taxi. Police issued an arrest warrant for their father, an Egyptian immigrant named Yaser Abdel Said, who had reportedly threatened to kill them upon learning that they had boyfriends. According to the Dallas Morning News, Yaser Said was given to "gun-waving rants about how Western culture was corrupting the chastity of his daughters."

While many authorities say that Islamic religious tradition does not sanction honor killing, it has long been accepted in many Muslim societies all the same. Perpetrators are typically punished lightly, if at all. In 2003, Jordan's parliament overwhelmingly defeated a proposal to impose harsher penalties for honor killings; Islamists objected on the grounds that more severe punishment would violate religious traditions and damage Jordanian society. It is appalling that such lethally barbaric attitudes persist anywhere - all the more so now that the shame of honor killing has made its way here.

Jeff Jacoby's e-mail address is jacoby@globe.com.
© Copyright 2010 The New York Times Company
 
Simple, do what makes us a great country. Take the high road.

No, the French take the high road. We stand and fight. Do you think your high road and morality will prevent a Muslim Extremist from chopping off your head? A lot of good your high road will do you when you're a lifeless corpse. I say lifeless, because we all know zombies are alive, yet still corpses.

Refuse to stoop to the level of our enemies.

How are we stooping to the level of our enemies? I don't see Americans blowing themselves up in the name of God, nor do I see Americans (and Christians in general) pushing for THEIR religion or death... at least, not anymore.

So, how are we stooping to the level of our enemies? Or, are you referring to taking the high road and letting them walk all over us?

Do NOT allow FEAR to rule our lives or influence our actions and reactions.

Wait... you don't want to allow fear to rule or influence our lives, yet you're afraid of what the extremists will do if this Qur'an gets burned? I'm cofused, here. In one post you're sayin it's a bad idea to provoke them for fear of what they may do and in this post you're talking about not allowing fear to rule our lives... Which is it?

Follow our laws.

Who are you referring to?

The Extremists? Why should they follow our laws? If that's what you're talking about, then you're no better than they are, since they want us to follow THEIR laws. Why should we force them to follow OUR laws in their country and why should they force US to follow THEIR laws, in out own country?


If you're talking about us following our own laws... I looked at my little US Constitution booklet, but I can't find anything that says it's illegal to burn a bible. Perhaps you would be kind as to tell me where it says that's illegal?


You don't?

No, I don't. Again, I don't see Christians blowing themselves up in the name of God. I don't see Christians waging a holy war against the Muslims, nor do I see American Christians trying to ban Mosques in America. And before you point out the Mosque that is currently under fire, I ask that you google how many Mosques are in NY, alone.

I also don't see American Christians decapitating Muslims just because they aren't Christian. Nor do I see any evidence of American Christians whom just can't stand the Muslim way of life.



Very insightful reply.

BTW, I was unable to find more than a handful of "Muslim Honor Killings" reported in the US. In all cases, the perp was either sentenced under our laws or is still on the run as a wanted man.

Really? How about the ones who were quietly sent back?

Refine your search to the Phoenix AZ area, late last year, early this year. There's even an instance where three muslim kids were let off of rape because they "didn't know better" since they were raised Muslim and thought their action was perfectly legitimate, in Phoenix.

There were alot of articles claiming an "explosion" of "muslim honor killings" in the US, but none of them seemed to have any facts to back up that claim.

Oh, please! "Seemed"?

Seems this is another myth perpetuated by the right like the "explosion" of violence along the Mexico border when the FACT is that its on the decline.

It's on the decline? Really? Hmmm... Wanna tell that to the people of Texas? Mainly the border towns? But of course, what Time says must be gospel, right? Because they are just... so... darned... unbiased.
 
I think the Pastor who's heading this and anyone who joins him is an idiot making an idiotic demonstration, though they shouldn't be stopped or talked out of this. The books are their property, they can burn them if they wish.

I also find the angle of "don't burn them, it will piss of Muslims" to be equally sad and pathetic. Islam is special; it doesn't deserve special treatment and this egg-shell walking approach towards it is pure nonsense.

The Dude's 4-cents.

Wait... I thought you were one of those hard core Liberals?

I find that I agree with you. Idiot as he may be, it is his full right to do as he pleases with the Qur'an.

And did you mean "Islam isn't special", perhaps?

But in whole, I agree with your way of thinking.
 
Wait... you don't want to allow fear to rule or influence our lives, yet you're afraid of what the extremists will do if this Qur'an gets burned? I'm cofused, here. In one post you're sayin it's a bad idea to provoke them for fear of what they may do and in this post you're talking about not allowing fear to rule our lives... Which is it?
Yeah I noticed that too, Frogman. Quite the contradiction, isn't he? :rolleyes:
 
Wait... I thought you were one of those hard core Liberals?

I find that I agree with you. Idiot as he may be, it is his full right to do as he pleases with the Qur'an.

And did you mean "Islam isn't special", perhaps?

But in whole, I agree with your way of thinking.

No, I'm not. I have liberal views, conservative views and views that don't gel with either.

Exactly, it's a book; it's his property (though the idiot inadvertently funded the publishers of something he's against).

Yeah, I edited it. Meant "isn't". Thx.
 
Unfortunately, you're talking about Genocide. Pretty much what the Muslim extremists want to happen to the Infidels... which I'm sad to inform you, is you, I, and everyone else on this planet who's not Muslim.

Actually I am not a political expert and I really don't get too much into it. But what I meant was that I like the Balls to the Wall, Bust a bitch up attitude that Bush had more than the apologetic pansy ass attitude that Obama has! I really meant to kill them, not me, you or everyone on the planet! Just the ones that want that to happen. Whoever :q:q:q:qs with us and kills innocent people over here will put their innocent people in jeopardy over there. Where ever that may be! Have people scared to mess with us! That is what I like. When I was growing up I was brought up knowing that USA was the worlds Super Power and no one wanted a piece of us. I feel like that has all changed now days!
 
I, too, don't think it makes sense to burn a Q'uran. Although the texture of the paper is likely to be somewhat harsh, they should actually be used in the latrine and then flushed properly.

Do you suppose that this attitude may mean that I'm getting away from being politically correct?:eek:

KS
 
My position is this:

Why bother with small potatoes like the Qur'an.

Let's start bombing the Caliphate cities. Announce that all our bombs have pigs' blood embedded in the detonators. Tell them in no uncertain terms that they are to stop teaching suicide bombing of Jews and Americans in their schools, and stop funding terrorists, or the bombings will continue. If the Russians have a problem with it, they can put their d!cks on the line and see if they want any.

Start with Tehran, then Damascus, then Riyadh. And so on.

Pass a law that says American citizens can carry a CCW inside Islamic mosques.

World reaction:

"The Americans are crazy! Leave them alone!"

Problem solved.
 
I say we burn a quran for every American that died in those towers, on those planes and in that WAR. The one that they initiated! Well I just wish everyone would think like this. I want to kill all of them and be done with it! Have a good day people!

Why don't we just take a quick head count. How many terrorists have we killed (rightfully so), how many civilians have we accidentally killed, and how many soldiers have we killed who were basically just doing their job and serving their country.

How many other races/religions would you like to exterminate while we are at it?
 
My position is this:

Why bother with small potatoes like the Qur'an.

Let's start bombing the Caliphate cities. Announce that all our bombs have pigs' blood embedded in the detonators. Tell them in no uncertain terms that they are to stop teaching suicide bombing of Jews and Americans in their schools, and stop funding terrorists, or the bombings will continue. If the Russians have a problem with it, they can put their d!cks on the line and see if they want any.

Start with Tehran, then Damascus, then Riyadh. And so on.

Are you drunk?

Pass a law that says American citizens can carry a CCW inside Islamic mosques.

For what reason? So idiots can start committing cold blooded murder cause fox news told you the muslims were bad?

World reaction:

"The Americans are crazy! Leave them alone!"

Problem solved.

I can guarantee you that the world reaction would be FAR different from that. But sure, let's have a world war. Lets make a bunch of good decent Americans die because you don't like someone's religion. Let's pretend even that the fighting would be confined ONLY to the Islamic nations we bomb. How many good American soldiers would you like to die over there just to satisfy your rage? How many more terror attacks do you want on US soil because we have oppressed them? Tell me, how many people do you want to murder?
 
I, too, don't think it makes sense to burn a Q'uran. Although the texture of the paper is likely to be somewhat harsh, they should actually be used in the latrine and then flushed properly.

Do you suppose that this attitude may mean that I'm getting away from being politically correct?:eek:

KS

I find it works well to get the really greasy poo that the bible just won't take off.
 
Westerners need to invest the time and energy, abandon their suicidal moral relativism and misguided, naive idealism, and really learn what Jihad is. What Sharia is. And who Mohamed was. People continually view Islam with the impression that our Western values are universal, then framing and trying to understand their actions with OUR sensibilities.

It doesn't work.

With that said, the guy in Gainesville is clown.
He essentially has a tiny little church in a metal shed, along with a nasty little habit for grandstanding and book burning. My understanding is that he did a bible burning not too long ago. He was burning all non-King James versions of the bible. (Correction: That was a different rural pastor)

What I find most offensive is why the media decided to showcase him.
What narrative are they using this story to fulfill?
And if the story was really that important, why didn't I learn of the story until AFTER the middle eastern muslims had begun protesting it??

I also find it offensive that all of these important players in D.C. felt the need to reach out to this clown directly and appeal to him to stop his tiny bonfire.

With all of that said, I don't take well to Muslim's anywhere threatening us with violence in retaliation for something, whether it's insensitive or not. This comes the day after the Ground Zero Mosque narrative is now, "if we move it, they will kill you."

At last check, the koran burning has been canceled.
The Ground Zero victory mosque is still being built, and if they build it else where, they will kill us....
 
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Are you drunk?
I don't drink. Are you stupid?

For what reason? So idiots can start committing cold blooded murder cause fox news told you the muslims were bad?
I knew muslims had it in for civilization before Fox News existed. Ever heard of the Barbary Wars? Take your stupid talking points and stuff them up your ass.
I can guarantee you that the world reaction would be FAR different from that. But sure, let's have a world war.
Aren't we already in a world war? Get a clue.

Lets make a bunch of good decent Americans die because you don't like someone's religion.
Ever heard of 9/11?
Let's pretend even that the fighting would be confined ONLY to the Islamic nations we bomb.
Ever heard of 9/11?
How many good American soldiers would you like to die over there just to satisfy your rage?
How many soldiers die when we bomb somebody? (zero - just ask Bill Clinton)
How many more terror attacks do you want on US soil because we have oppressed them?
So, it's our fault that we got attacked on 9/11? Is that your position? Tell me, how many terrorist attacks have we had since Obama started appeasing the terrorists with his Cairo speech?
Tell me, how many people do you want to murder?
Are you an appeaser? Peace at any price, right?

Are you capable of making a point without the loaded, absurd, melodramatic screeching?
 
I don't drink. Are you stupid?

As they say, stupid is as stupid does. You are the one advocating carpet bombing civilians until they are too scared to attack us. It is almost like you are saying we should incite terror in the populace. There is a word for that..... what is it.... Oh yeah, terrorism.

I knew muslims had it in for civilization before Fox News existed. Ever heard of the Barbary Wars? Take your stupid talking points and stuff them up your ass.

Are we going to make a list of religious wars? I can make a pretty long list of religious wars Christians have started. Barbary wars though..... are you suggesting that Pirates are representative of all of Islam? Lots of other people have been pirates in the past too..... You guys keep insisting that Islam "has it out for civilization" and spewing this propaganda. Stuff them up my ass? Another brilliant retort.

Aren't we already in a world war? Get a clue.

Since when are we in a world war?

Ever heard of 9/11?

How many times would you like a repeat of that. Let's breed more terrorists instead of targeting the ones that are out there already and supporting the moderates who could act as appeasers inside their populations.

How many soldiers die when we bomb somebody? (zero - just ask Bill Clinton)

Right.....

So, it's our fault that we got attacked on 9/11? Is that your position?

No, it is Bin Laden's fault. But we most certainly have had a part in the hateful sentiment that much of that region feels for us.

Tell me, how many terrorist attacks have we had since Obama started appeasing the terrorists with his Cairo speech?

Do you know?

Are you an appeaser? Peace at any price, right?

Wonderful false choice dichotomy. You want to carpet bomb civilians until they are so scared of the USA that they will, according to you, not retaliate ever again. I tell you that if you did that, it would generate more negative feelings towards the US and incite quite a few more terror attacks against us. How is that peace at any price. All I said was that what you are suggesting is ludicrous. You are claiming we are the moderate rational tolerant people, but you want to commit genocide.....

Are you capable of making a point without the loaded, absurd, melodramatic screeching?

Are you capable of logical thought? Are you capable of intelligent discussion?

How is what I stated loaded, absurd or melodramatic? You start a war against civilians and civilians will rebel. We commit genocide and the world will fight back.

Since we are on the subject of peace at any cost..... What exactly would peace cost to you? Killing everyone who isn't the same as you so that no one fights anymore? Sounds to me like that is exactly what you have been suggesting.
 
Westerners need to invest the time and energy, abandon their suicidal moral relativism and misguided, naive idealism, and really learn what Jihad is. What Sharia is. And who Mohamed was. People continually view Islam with the impression that our Western values are universal, then framing and trying to understand their actions with OUR sensibilities.

It doesn't work.

You still don't understand Islam either nearly as much as you claim to. I really suggest reading some other books on it than the one you have.

With that said, the guy in Gainesville is clown.
He essentially has a tiny little church in a metal shed, along with a nasty little habit for grandstanding and book burning. My understanding is that he did a bible burning not too long ago. He was burning all non-King James versions of the bible.

He is indeed an idiot.

What I find most offensive is why the media decided to showcase him.
What narrative are they using this story to fulfill?
And if the story was really that important, why didn't I learn of the story until AFTER the middle eastern muslims had begun protesting it??

I've been hearing about it for quite some time now. You are listening to the wrong news stations. Why are you so offended that the media reported that some guy was going to hold a book burning? I'd say the media was effective in this case. So much pressure on this guy that he backed out, instead of just acting like a jackass and spreading more hate.

I also find it offensive that all of these important players in D.C. felt the need to reach out to this clown directly and appeal to him to stop his tiny bonfire.

As opposed to all the important players who feel the need to reach out to the builders of the "ground zero" mosque to ask them to move it away from their "holy land"

With all of that said, I don't take well to Muslim's anywhere threatening us with violence in retaliation for something, whether it's insensitive or not. This comes the day after the Ground Zero Mosque narrative is now, "if we move it, they will kill you."

Right under Foss's post stating the need to commit genocide.....

At last check, the koran burning has been canceled.
The Ground Zero victory mosque is still being built, and if they build it else where, they will kill us....

The right are the only ones reporting that there will be any form of retaliation if the mosque is moved.... The only thing the planner have said was that if people intervened and denied them their constitutional rights, that there would likely be an outcry that could lead to more terrorist attacks or other things of that nature. Kinda like how Foss insists we need to carpet bomb the middle-east every time they burn a flag or a bible or kill an american.
 
To Find---

'There are none so blind as those who will not see'

Liberals who just got mugged make the best Conservatives

The bombing should focus on infrastructure. Living a 'stone-age' existence might create enough hostility in the populace against political/religious rulers to, at least, give some relief from their terrorism.

KS
 
My position is this:

Why bother with small potatoes like the Qur'an.

Let's start bombing the Caliphate cities. Announce that all our bombs have pigs' blood embedded in the detonators. Tell them in no uncertain terms that they are to stop teaching suicide bombing of Jews and Americans in their schools, and stop funding terrorists, or the bombings will continue. If the Russians have a problem with it, they can put their d!cks on the line and see if they want any.

Start with Tehran, then Damascus, then Riyadh. And so on.

Pass a law that says American citizens can carry a CCW inside Islamic mosques.

World reaction:

"The Americans are crazy! Leave them alone!"

Problem solved.

What happens in the US when the Saudi Oil/foreign oil stops? Exactly.

More sensible solution, make an actual effort to ween the US off foreign oil; tell them to go fvck themselves and sell their sh!t to China, India and Russia.
 
We... get our oil from our reserves. The ANWR, offshore, inland...

Lord knows we have enough.

Every year I go through Saudi Arabia and the UAE I see more and more drilling rigs. I once asked someone why oil production is ramped up so much.

I was informed the reason the rigs are there is not because they are punching more wells to extract even more oil, but rather they are punching more wells to keep up with oil demand, as the reserves are dwindling. A new well doesn't yield as much as it did 20, 10 even 5 years ago, so they have to punch more to compensate.

Soon, the oil reserves will run out in the Middle East.

OPEC has a nice scheme going on right now. We (as a country) sell them oil from Alaska at about $35/BBl and they turn around and sell it back to us at "market price".
 
OPEC has a nice scheme going on right now. We (as a country) sell them oil from Alaska at about $35/BBl and they turn around and sell it back to us at "market price".

Another example of politicians whom we empower and trust to do what's in our best interest turning around and bvtt-fvcking us over a [oil] barrel for personal gain.
 
Another example of politicians whom we empower and trust to do what's in our best interest turning around and bvtt-fvcking us over a [oil] barrel for personal gain.

Not sure if this is so much politicians as it is bureaucrats.
 
We... get our oil from our reserves. The ANWR, offshore, inland...

Lord knows we have enough.

Every year I go through Saudi Arabia and the UAE I see more and more drilling rigs. I once asked someone why oil production is ramped up so much.

I was informed the reason the rigs are there is not because they are punching more wells to extract even more oil, but rather they are punching more wells to keep up with oil demand, as the reserves are dwindling. A new well doesn't yield as much as it did 20, 10 even 5 years ago, so they have to punch more to compensate.

Soon, the oil reserves will run out in the Middle East.

OPEC has a nice scheme going on right now. We (as a country) sell them oil from Alaska at about $35/BBl and they turn around and sell it back to us at "market price".
You do realize that there are thousands of Arab oil princes, right? Every prince gets to spend as much money as he wants. And every son or grandson or nephew of the king is a prince.

They're running out of money due to their own profligate spending.
 
As they say, stupid is as stupid does. You are the one advocating carpet bombing civilians until they are too scared to attack us. It is almost like you are saying we should incite terror in the populace. There is a word for that..... what is it.... Oh yeah, terrorism.
I've advocated bombing the governments. Just to be clear, since you love the straw man approach.

Since when are we in a world war?
Head--->sand


How many times would you like a repeat of that. Let's breed more terrorists instead of targeting the ones that are out there already and supporting the moderates who could act as appeasers inside their populations.
That's a lame canard, and you have no basis with which to back it up.

Right.....
Are you going to dispute that we don't lose soldiers during bombings? Oh, please do. :rolleyes:


No, it is Bin Laden's fault. But we most certainly have had a part in the hateful sentiment that much of that region feels for us.
How? What part of our culture makes them want to kill us?

Do you know?
Yep.


Wonderful false choice dichotomy. You want to carpet bomb civilians until they are so scared of the USA that they will, according to you, not retaliate ever again. I tell you that if you did that, it would generate more negative feelings towards the US and incite quite a few more terror attacks against us. How is that peace at any price. All I said was that what you are suggesting is ludicrous. You are claiming we are the moderate rational tolerant people, but you want to commit genocide.....
Again, it's the governments that will be held accountable. I never said genocide, Mr. Strawman. However, I'm so tired of the pussy attitude of "Oh noes! They might be really mad at us!" So freaking what. We have the guns and bombs, and we're not going to tolerate them harassing or bullying us - which is EXACTLY what they're doing. Back in the day, we gave our enemies the finger rather than trying to appease them (your strategy) - appeasement NEVER works. It only makes your enemies more aggressive as they see it as a sign of weakness. These muslims are not reasonable - they're fanatics. "Strike off the heads of the infidels" is taught from the Qur'an by the imams.

Are you capable of logical thought? Are you capable of intelligent discussion?
Yes. Are you? Apparently not.

How is what I stated loaded, absurd or melodramatic? You start a war against civilians and civilians will rebel. We commit genocide and the world will fight back.
Refer to above-mentioned straw man.

Since we are on the subject of peace at any cost..... What exactly would peace cost to you? Killing everyone who isn't the same as you so that no one fights anymore? Sounds to me like that is exactly what you have been suggesting.
Nope. I've already explained my position - punish the governments until they stop targeting us. It's very simple and not at all like your mischaracterization.

Let me know when you're ready to discuss this without using straw men. Until then, I'm done wasting my valuable time on you.
 

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