Supercharged Ls V8

Quik LS said:
I'm confused by this statement - you say you run a 100shot with no problems - but then you say you haven't been tuned yet.....

Have you really ran it yet on 100shot?
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ya , not with the sct though
 
zexls said:
ya , not with the sct though
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sorry - still confused...

ya - you're tuned, but not with the SCT? Then with what?

or

ya - you run 100shot untuned

?
 
Is Nitrous worth it and what are some potential issue's (engine wise) that a man might see from running it? I've been thinking about it for a while now and have learned a lot from this thread....thxs to all....But I just don't know how big of a risk it is, cause quite frankly, I have very, VERY little knowledge about anything that has been discussed in this thread. I only wish I had half the know how as some of you.
 
nitrous - when tuned properly is ok - but when it goes bad, usually goes really bad and costs you and engine. Since NO2 has more oxygen than air - you are shoving more oxygen into you engine, then add more fuel and you have more power.

- the risk is you run lean (due to more air) so you have to find a way to add more fuel (tuning).
- one benefit of N)2 is that it automatically cools the intake air.
- NO2 is becoming more and more illegal in different states
- NO2 is without a doubt the easiest and cheapest install for power

NO2 (IMHO) is only worth it if you race other cars a lot. It's not like you will use it on the way to work..... which is the reason I took mine off and are going the supercharger route. Which turbos and superchargers - they add hp all the time, so it's like you have a more powerful engine in your car. NO2 is like you brought some dynomite with you that you can use if needed.....
 
Quik LS said:
sorry - still confused...

ya - you're tuned, but not with the SCT? Then with what?

or

ya - you run 100shot untuned

?
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I tuned the nitrous by using different jets trying to get the right air fuel mix.
 
MrWilson said:
oh yea, i know what your talkin bout....but seeing how the mark is runnin the B heads...it kinda makes it hard to bolt other intakes(specially the s/c) so id need heads and all too...longblock is a better option for me.

i checked out vt...their shortblock is $3495...i can get a longblock with the s/c for $3750 from my ford dealer...dont ask how, price is for me alone.
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Oh ok I hear ya. I didn't know which mods you planned on going for. That makes sense for ya then.

When you say you can get a longblock with the supercharger I take it you mean a 03/04 longblock w/ charger? If so, then that is a screaming deal! The stock 03/04 Cobra bottom end will handle more than 600rwhp no problem.

The VT site is kind of weird right now. If you go to the high bandwidth part of the site the prices are diferent than the low bandwidth side. Even on the low bandwidth side a forged shortblock with your alum block and stock forged crank as a core only costs $2,900 for the Sportsman with forged H beam rods and forged pistons. Should hold 500rwhp no problem. I guess it depends on how much total power your looking for. Getting a forged Cobra bottom end with swapped 03/04 Cobra heads w/ Crower cams and a Kenne Bell 2.4 would be a sick thing in a Mark! hehe. :D
 
zexls said:
I tuned the nitrous by using different jets trying to get the right air fuel mix.
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well - I'm no expert here - isn't that simply changing the 'shot' size?

the 'rule of thumb' is to decrease your spark by at least 2 degrees per 100hp. Most nitrous guys end up going at least a degree cooler plug at 100shot as well - while change to a standard cooper plug with a different gap. the nitrous reacts badly with the platium in our OE plugs.

the only way I know to change your spark and fueling curve is to use the SCT and flash the PCM with new curves.

so if you are reducing the nitrous jet - aren't you simply reducing the shot?

I not trying to call you out - I 'hang out' with the local racers sometimes here - 75% of them have a nitrous bottle in their cars, colored purge plumes all over the place..... but less the a handful actually have tuned and put a bottle through their engine. Most of their installs a for 'show' only.

I want to understand when you say 'I run a 100shot no problem' if that is really the advice you are giving because you have figured it out...

I ran 100shot only a few times - before the SCT tuner was available - and the a/f ratio was way way way off - I would never recommend it without the tune.
 
zexls said:
I tuned the nitrous by using different jets trying to get the right air fuel mix.
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Ok, so you were running a wetshot to roughly set the A/F then.

Not trying to knock anyone's tuning preferences here but such things as spark timing retard and also spark plug heat range are some other things that are best addressed so as to prevent an engine blowing. ;)
 
2001LS8Sport said:
I have seen some HORRIBLE nitrous explosions with wet kits...blows the manifold clear off the car. That's what can happen with puddling, etc. It's rare...but I've seen it. It's even rarer with a dry kit...and with the availability to tune for it with the SCT now, it makes no sense to add the extra expense and work involved to go wet. However, you need to make sure you have the fuel capablities and injector size to keep from going lean. With a small shot, you're probably ok...but the only way to know for sure is to toss it on a dyno and have the a/f ratio checked and make sure your MAF sensor isn't maxing out. Just MHO......
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Hey Im a little late to jump on here....
I worked with a nitrous company for alittle over a year and the guy was really big on making a NEW way of doing things....He spent a couple of years and more money to fix this POOLING problem...What happens is when you spray the Nitrous into the Intake on a wet kit there is two hole on the nozzle that screws into the intake....The fuel is on the bottom and it has very little pressure behind it so it more or less drops out of the nozzle and the Nitrous is blowing out at 950-1100 PSI(bottle pressure) and it picks up the fuel on the way....So its not the best thing to mix and atomize...and then it sprays out at a 90 degree angle...so it hits the side of your intake and the fuel Pools....They the nitrous keeps going and ignites and all that fuel that is running "late" flashes and BOOM....SO this guy figured out if you stack the wholes of the Fuel and N20 that you can get a better mixture and it also sprays in the intake at a 70 degree angle....So its not hitting your intake and being stopped....Also His nozzle sprays in a cone patter Vs the others spray in a flat finger style....We did some testing with a clear intake and you can see the other nozzles spray right into the side everytime and fuel weight more and runs down the sides of the intake ...With his its clear all the way to the end......

I had the old nozzles and than put the new one in and there was a night a day difference with my truck...Also it all mixes better so you actually can see it pick up time in the quater mile...
 
rocket5979 said:
Ok, so you were running a wetshot to roughly set the A/F then.

Not trying to knock anyone's tuning preferences here but such things as spark timing retard and also spark plug heat range are some other things that are best addressed so as to prevent an engine blowing. ;)
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I agree you need to run the right plugs if not your fighting an up-hill battle.....You get s copper plug with a short strap(the finger looking thing) and you get 1-2 ranges colder (anything 100hp shot or more) and then back the timing 1-2 degrees (per 75-100hp) and you will have a much better running system and you will get a longer life out of it because you will not have any detination....Also run 93+ octane this will keep the car from having detination also(the ls need this no matter what but other cars that only run 87)....You will be so much happier in the long run by doing this....

Just also remember you can get Very greedy with N20 and its very addictive to push a button, Flip a switch, or hit the right RPM's and yo get a Horse Power On Demand!!! You can exceed the motors capablility.... I had a s10 with spray and the guy at the speed shop that filled my bottle every other day sometimes twice a day told me to buy a bigger bottle and a smaller button!!! its fun once you control it...So be safe and smart and have fun with it...
 
Quik LS said:
well - I'm no expert here - isn't that simply changing the 'shot' size?

the 'rule of thumb' is to decrease your spark by at least 2 degrees per 100hp. Most nitrous guys end up going at least a degree cooler plug at 100shot as well - while change to a standard cooper plug with a different gap. the nitrous reacts badly with the platium in our OE plugs.

the only way I know to change your spark and fueling curve is to use the SCT and flash the PCM with new curves.

so if you are reducing the nitrous jet - aren't you simply reducing the shot?

I not trying to call you out - I 'hang out' with the local racers sometimes here - 75% of them have a nitrous bottle in their cars, colored purge plumes all over the place..... but less the a handful actually have tuned and put a bottle through their engine. Most of their installs a for 'show' only.

I want to understand when you say 'I run a 100shot no problem' if that is really the advice you are giving because you have figured it out...

I ran 100shot only a few times - before the SCT tuner was available - and the a/f ratio was way way way off - I would never recommend it without the tune.
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No, What I ment is that with the wet kit i used i have never had a backfire or
any thing like that. I have used no2 on 3 cars and 1 bike and I am still learning the in and outs.
 
zexls said:
No, What I ment is that with the wet kit i used i have never had a backfire or
any thing like that. I have used no2 on 3 cars and 1 bike and I am still learning the in and outs.
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cool - we are all learning....

so if you reduced the NO2 jet to maintain a proper a/f ratio - it's not likely you are running a 100shot any more....

our testing with a 75shot still put the a/f meter off the lean side of the scale....
 
Quik LS said:
cool - we are all learning....

so if you reduced the NO2 jet to maintain a proper a/f ratio - it's not likely you are running a 100shot any more....

our testing with a 75shot still put the a/f meter off the lean side of the scale....
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What engine size they are projecting the power gains. 302,351 ect.
 
zexls said:
What engine size they are projecting the power gains. 302,351 ect.
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so maybe I'm slow.....


but you respond to the queation about 'you really are not running a 100shot' with this.......

"What engine size they are projecting the power gains. 302,351 ect"


what are you asking? 302, 351...?
 
If you want to adjust your A/F using the jets you would have to up your fuel or lower your fuel...

What kit are you running I can help you with the jets (maybe)....Let me know what you have and what your trying to do and I'll see what I can do...
 
Quik LS said:
so maybe I'm slow.....


but you respond to the queation about 'you really are not running a 100shot' with this.......

"What engine size they are projecting the power gains. 302,351 ect"


what are you asking? 302, 351...?
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When you use a jet chart it is for a 4cy V6 or a V8, but do you use the same jets for a 289ci that you would a 460ci? A far as tuning my LS I have tryed to stay around the recomended jet size. I am trying to put mine on the dyno when I get the time.
 
zexls said:
When you use a jet chart it is for a 4cy V6 or a V8, but do you use the same jets for a 289ci that you would a 460ci? A far as tuning my LS I have tryed to stay around the recomended jet size. I am trying to put mine on the dyno when I get the time.
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OK what they do that for is two reasons....First being that a v6 and a v8 you can spray a bigger shot on an eight....and it you look at the 4 6 8 kits the nitrous for a 75 is the same (so are the 100 and etc....) the difference is the Fuel Pressure.... when I built a kit to ship out a 4cy would get a 35 50 and 75 and eight would get 100 125 150 and some 175...

Like I said If you post what brand jets your using and size I can tell you what you should expect....
 
guys maybe you should start an no2 thread to keep this one on topic. this is the most viewed thread in the LS forum......
 
SilverLS said:
OK what they do that for is two reasons....First being that a v6 and a v8 you can spray a bigger shot on an eight....and it you look at the 4 6 8 kits the nitrous for a 75 is the same (so are the 100 and etc....) the difference is the Fuel Pressure.... when I built a kit to ship out a 4cy would get a 35 50 and 75 and eight would get 100 125 150 and some 175...

Like I said If you post what brand jets your using and size I can tell you what you should expect....
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I use 30 fuel and 46 No2, on the ZEX jet chart the jets for a V8 100 shot are different than a V6 100 shot.
 
OK with the jets your running you have a 96 hp shot and your fuel jet is bigger than it needs to be so your safe...Your going to run rich with it so your safe....you should expect to get 81-82 HP at the wheels....
 
SilverLS said:
OK with the jets your running you have a 96 hp shot and your fuel jet is bigger than it needs to be so your safe...Your going to run rich with it so your safe....you should expect to get 81-82 HP at the wheels....
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Hey Quik, I think the reason you two were confused is that you were approaching ths shot size from a dry shot perspective (1 jet NO2 only) and he has a wet nitrous kit which has 2 jets, one for fuel and the other for the NO2. Simple miscommunication.

Just remember that rich is not always more safe. There comes a point where too rich is every bit as dangerous as running lean. Just saying it is best to get an A/F reading, whether that be from rigging up your own LC-1 or something of the like or taking it to a tuner to either take a reading while on the street or even just the good old tossing it up on the dyno with a Lambda screwed in, or worst case scenario a tail pipe sniffer.
 
I understand it was a wet system - it's right about the 30 - 34 jet that you will be on the edge of OE fuel pump - with the incredible tuning that the OE's do on these engines running such little injectors - the entire fuel system ends up being much smaller than you would ever expect.

I could never get my a/f good all the way through the rpm band using the fuel jet only - I ended having to cut back down to a 75shot.
 
Quik LS said:
I understand it was a wet system - it's right about the 30 - 34 jet that you will be on the edge of OE fuel pump - with the incredible tuning that the OE's do on these engines running such little injectors - the entire fuel system ends up being much smaller than you would ever expect.

I could never get my a/f good all the way through the rpm band using the fuel jet only - I ended having to cut back down to a 75shot.
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Ok. It just didn't seem like it from what you were saying. No prob.

Most stock fuel systems will handle a decent amount of power with a few key mods. Heck swap the injectors and wire in a Kenne Bell Boost-a-pump and your pretty much set all the way to 400rwhp; and sometimes above in certain vehicles. ;)
 
zexls said:
I tuned the nitrous by using different jets trying to get the right air fuel mix.
Click to expand...

I would assume you are using a wide band O2 sensor to check your a/f ratio then?
 
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