Supercharged Ls V8

[Quik LS]

yep - here is the 'planned' routing...

the top pic is the one we drew for the 03+ (same for the pre-03 but add the hydraulic fan wheel)

the bottom pic is the actual stock pre-03

 

[2006kmls]

I only wish I was as ambitious as Quick LS. That guys got drawings and all sorts of mechanical aptitude! He'll modify anything!

 

[bigern]

Hey keep me posted on this i am curious and want to do the same to mine if it works out

 

[2001LS8Sport]

NOW I see it! Thanks! One thing Billetflow offers is a 100mm idler for your top idler. It is larger and gives you much more belt wrap around the s/c pulley. Give Doug a call...you won't be disappointed.

 

[Quik LS]

cool deal - thanx

 

[Quik LS]

cool deal - thanx

 

[PGA2B]

Hey Quik any reason you didn't use a Radix M112 like on the Cobra's? I thought some where I saw a LS with that M112 on it.

 

[2001LS8Sport]

Hey Quik any reason you didn't use a Radix M112 like on the Cobra's? I thought some where I saw a LS with that M112 on it.

My guess is it's more than the car will ever need. Takes more hp to turn, builds more heat (they are Heatons you know!). The M90 is a very capable performer at this level of power.

 

[Fastbird]

I just got done reading this and I am definitely impressed!!!! That's an outstanding job for being as custom as it is.

One thought: Have you considered ditching the MAF and using the SCT to do a speed density tune instead??? Reason I ask is two fold, being a restriction in the intake and the other being the "what if the MAF craps" which could turn things south in a heartbeat if you're under boost already.

You planning on making this a kit???

 

[Quik LS]

My guess is it's more than the car will ever need. Takes more hp to turn, builds more heat (they are Heatons you know!). The M90 is a very capable performer at this level of power.

right you are. Remember - we only have a 3.9L - most of the GM (GrandPrix, Bonneville, ...etc) all were running 3.8L with an M90.

A simply pulley change and I can add double the hp - but that stock internal will never handle it.

 

[Quik LS]

I just got done reading this and I am definitely impressed!!!! That's an outstanding job for being as custom as it is.

One thought: Have you considered ditching the MAF and using the SCT to do a speed density tune instead??? Reason I ask is two fold, being a restriction in the intake and the other being the "what if the MAF craps" which could turn things south in a heartbeat if you're under boost already.

You planning on making this a kit???

good idea. There are a couple of 'once we get it running' ideas we need to try out:
- intercooler
- moving the IAT to the boost side of the SC
- different injectors
- different tuning ideas - one could be like you mentioned.

 

[mdrobnak]

good idea. There are a couple of 'once we get it running' ideas we need to try out:
- intercooler
- moving the IAT to the boost side of the SC
- different injectors
- different tuning ideas - one could be like you mentioned.

Well, I would say this - the MAF does not pose a serious restriction in the intake, certainly not at the HP levels we're talking about. Remember, there are 800RWHP cobras...Running a MAF.

MAF crapping out. Possibly, not likely. If it does - guess what the computer does - reverts to a Speed Density tune (Yes, all Fords have speed density backups).

With SCT, the car could be tuned via MAF, then if the car is put through TP / RPM points when everything is corrected, to get the proper load...you could have a Speed Density backup. The ECT/ACT correction won't be quite right, but you'll be in the ballpark.

-Matt

 

[2001LS8Sport]

good idea. There are a couple of 'once we get it running' ideas we need to try out:
- intercooler
- moving the IAT to the boost side of the SC
- different injectors
- different tuning ideas - one could be like you mentioned.

The Cobras use two IAT's Quik...one before and one after the s/c. But they have the software to utilize them. I think it's VERY important to base your fuel and timing maps off the outlet temps. We've seen a lot of datalogging done on the Cobras for before and after temps. Even with the intercooler, you would be absolutely amazed at the difference. These damn Heatons really really do build a lot of heat.

 

[Quik LS]

yep - we are seeing about 12 - 18 degrees per lb of boost - so even at 5lbs it could add another 90 degrees onto the intake charge.

 

[2001LS8Sport]

I think that's about right. So on a 90 degree day, you could easily see 180 degree inlet temps. Personally, if you push it hard, without an intercooler, I think you could see temps higher than that. Can you say "detonation"??

 

[mdrobnak]

96 Mustang GT, Vortech S Trim, no intercooler, 10 lbs boost - I was seeing temps of over 210 degrees at some points on like a 75 degree day.

Intercooling is a must.

-Matt

 

[2001LS8Sport]

And the Eaton will give you even higher temps. I agree...intercooling is a high priority. Of course, 5 lbs of boost won't be as bad....

 

[rocket5979]

The Cobras use two IAT's Quik...one before and one after the s/c. But they have the software to utilize them. I think it's VERY important to base your fuel and timing maps off the outlet temps.

Very important point here. If the car is putting more timing into the spark because it thinks that ambient temps are actual inlet temps then very bad things could possibly arise, especially with the fine line that will be walked anyways (high comp non-forged engine + heaton). Roots on an LS isnt a bad setup at all, but it can be made as safe as possible if the IAT is placed after the charger and intercooler too. One less thing that could cause problems.

 

[mdrobnak]

Of course. IAT must be relocated to after the supercharger / supercharger + intercooler.
-Matt

 

[PGA2B]

Correct me if I am wrong but if you put it after the SC won't it see temps above 100? Like 150-300? I know on my GP I would see temps 275-350 coming out of the SC at the lower intake manifold before I Intercooled it. The air to water Intercooler dropped temps 130 to 150 degrees and with all my mods allowed me to run a 2.6" pulley with 22* timing and 0* KR on 91 octane in the summer in KC.

Also--Quik, is the shaft of the M90 T-Bird SC the same size as a M90 for the Grand Prix? If so I can get a modular pulley setup.

 

[Quik LS]

Correct me if I am wrong but if you put it after the SC won't it see temps above 100?

right - that's why it goes in the outlet plenum after the SC and after the intercooler - so it reads the actual temp going into the manifold

Also--Quik, is the shaft of the M90 T-Bird SC the same size as a M90 for the Grand Prix? If so I can get a modular pulley setup.

yes - they are many pulley option for the M90.

 

[beaups]

I'm getting all too close to getting a stiffy here....I can't wait until this project is done!

 

[Fla02LS]

I'm getting all too close to getting a stiffy here....I can't wait until this project is done!

WHOA...spare the stiffy talk eh !! Atleast wait till he turns the key and it runs for any stiffyness.

 

[PGA2B]

right - that's why it goes in the outlet plenum after the SC and after the intercooler - so it reads the actual temp going into the manifold

Oh yeah I forgot this car is NOT designed for a SC. So the PCM is not written for this to make calculations. I assume that the GP is designed to "see" a certain temp and adjust the fueling and incoming air. The IAT is in the stock throttle body that is bolted to the SC. Since I had an LS1 throttle body (NO built in MAF) I used the IAT in the LS6 MAF (Built in MAF). But then again its designed to compensate for the IAT before the SC. So what kind of temps are you expceting to see for IAT readings?

BTW-What are you using for a MAP sensor?

I would guess a parts list is forth coming once the project is complete?

I still have some MAF and other tables if you think they would help. I don't know if my tuning experiences could help or not but I would think they would somehow. The rest of my tunes would do you no good because you have to have a powrtuner to read them.:frown: You might want to contact a friend of mine about tuning. Considering he wrote the Powrtuner program:biggrin: Hit me with a PM I would LOVE to talk to you about this.

 

[rocket5979]

Oh yeah I forgot this car is NOT designed for a SC. So the PCM is not written for this to make calculations. I assume that the GP is designed to "see" a certain temp and adjust the fueling and incoming air. The IAT is in the stock throttle body that is bolted to the SC. Since I had an LS1 throttle body (NO built in MAF) I used the IAT in the LS6 MAF (Built in MAF). But then again its designed to compensate for the IAT before the SC. So what kind of temps are you expceting to see for IAT readings?

Though there may be further algorithms that are programmed into the PCM's of stock supercharged cars, they should still have an IAT so as to get real world temps of the air right before it enters the heads. The reason for this is that the PCM cannot predict heatsoak (back to back runs/ racing) or an unusually hot day. It needs the real inlet temps to adjust timing and fuel accordingly. That is why factory supercharged cars like the 03-04 Cobra's, for example, have two IAT's; one before the charger and one after the charger and intercooler. The first to read ambient temps and the second to read actual temps. I dont know allot about the GP's but I would venture to say that there just might be another IAT hiding somewhere under there.