The Left & The Politization Of Tragedy

shagdrum

Dedicated LVC Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
6,568
Reaction score
44
Location
KS
While the events of Tuscan have been the dominate national news story they have also triggered the all-too-familiar dueling narratives of capitalizing on tragedy for political ends and hand-wringing about the politicization of tragedy. These competing stories, often promoted by the same news and entertainment figures serve an invaluable purpose in the promotion of a political agenda. With the mainstream media setting and enforcing the standard of judgment on these matters, propagandists are to spread their lies while marginalizing anyone who calls them on it. This dynamic has been developing for decades.

While most people would agree that it is highly unethical and shameless to politicize these type of tragedies, what is the appropriate course of action when one side inevitably does co-opt a national tragedy toward political ends? While those doing the politicizing would have us believe that pointing out their efforts perpetuates the problem, this is simply convenience masquerading "sensitivity".

I would argue that there is an obligation to call out this shameless capitalizing on tragedy for the destructive and, ultimately, insulting action it is. Emotionally manipulative, these actions are nothing short of an assault on honest discourse, the political process and the efforts of a free society to govern itself. To sit back and let these opportunistic smears go unchallenged it to encourage these actions.

In that spirit, I have decided to highlight an unfortunate pattern on the left of politicizing tragedy. I want to make clear that what I am talking about here is not the type of politicizing that goes on during the typical campaign season by individuals seeking office. This is something that goes well beyond that.

To start with, let's look at the recent shooting of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords. All the hand wringing concerning violent rhetoric focusing primarily on Palin and maps with cross-hairs on them ignores the fact that cross hairs, talk of "targeting" and other violent, "warfare"-like rhetoric is common for political discourse, on both sides of the isle and in the media. This selective examination is serves to undermine honest analysis of not only the shooter's motivations, but of the positions of the political "opposition".

This type "analysis" which fosters the appearance of non-leftist thought as irrational, reactionary and prone to emotional, violent outbursts can be attributed to group think and a severe lack of interest and/or understanding of non-leftist thought inside certain institutions like the entertainment industry, mass media and political elite. But that doesn't, by itself, explain things. As a quote from a Democrat political strategist in this article from Politico shows, there is a purposeful effort to falsely brand the right in this:
“They need to deftly pin this on the tea partiers,” said the Democrat. “Just like the Clinton White House deftly pinned the Oklahoma City bombing on the militia and anti-government people.”
The Oklahoma City narrative is not only another example of capitalizing on tragedy, but the set the template for spinning tragedy which has become standard ever since. Clinton was at a low point in his Presidency after the electoral beating he had just received in the 1994 mid-term elections. Shortly after the unfortunate events in Oklahoma city, political adviser Dick Morris, after poling on the tragedy suggested a strategy that Clinton implemented which aimed to brand and marginalize Republicans as "extremists":
Later, under the heading "How to use extremism as issue against Republicans," Morris told Clinton that "direct accusations" of extremism wouldn't work because the Republicans were not, in fact, extremists. Rather, Morris recommended what he called the "ricochet theory." Clinton would "stimulate national concern over extremism and terror," and then, "when issue is at top of national agenda, suspicion naturally gravitates to Republicans." As that happened, Morris recommended, Clinton would use his executive authority to impose "intrusive" measures against so-called extremist groups. Clinton would explain that such intrusive measures were necessary to prevent future violence, knowing that his actions would, Morris wrote, "provoke outrage by extremist groups who will write their local Republican congressmen." Then, if members of Congress complained, that would "link right-wing of the party to extremist groups." The net effect, Morris concluded, would be "self-inflicted linkage between [GOP] and extremists."

Clinton's proposals -- for example, new limits on firearms and some explosives that were opposed by the National Rifle Association -- had "an underlying political purpose," Morris wrote in 2004 in another book about Clinton, Because He Could. That purpose was "to lead voters to identify the Oklahoma City bombing with the right wing. By making proposals we knew the Republicans would reject…we could label them as soft on terror an imply a connection with the extremism of the fanatics who bombed the Murrah Federal Building."

Of course, there are countless other examples as well, including the Paul Wellstone Memorial/Campaign Rally. This pattern can even be traced back to early reactions to the JFK assassination:
...when the word spread on November 22 that President Kennedy had been shot, the immediate and understandable reaction was that the assassin must be a right-wing extremist—an anti-Communist, perhaps, or a white supremacist. Such speculation went out immediately over the national airwaves, and it seemed to make perfect sense, echoed by the likes of John Kenneth Galbraith and Chief Justice Earl Warren, who said that Kennedy had been martyred “as a result of the hatred and bitterness that has been injected into the life of our nation by bigots.”

It therefore came as a shock when the police announced later the same day that a Communist had been arrested for the murder, and when the television networks began to run tapes taken a few months earlier showing the suspected assassin passing out leaflets in New Orleans in support of Fidel Castro. Nor was Lee Harvey Oswald just any leftist, playing games with radical ideas in order to shock friends and relatives. Instead, he was a dyed-in-the-wool Communist who had defected to the Soviet Union and married a Russian woman before returning to the U.S. the previous year. One of the first of an evolving breed, Oswald had lately rejected the Soviet Union in favor of third-world dictators like Mao, Ho, and Castro.
This type of cognitive dissonance - an uncomfortable feeling caused by holding conflicting ideas simultaneously - is typical of knee-jerk leftist reactions to national tragedies in the media, academia, entertainment industries and elitist circles. They try to jump out ahead of the issue to spin it to their advantage and, when the facts conflict with the narrative they are promoting, quickly turn to condemning those who politicize it. When the mainstream media is the judge on who is and is not politicizing the issue, it is easy to quickly label the political right (who inevitably react by pointing out the flaws in the leftist narrative) as politicizing the issue.

This all serves to reinforce the leftist misconceptions about the right that serve as elaborate justifications to dismiss non-leftist thought. These include the narrative of conservatives as racists (as embodied in the "Southern Strategy" idea and demonstrated in the recent debates about the Ground Zero Mosque and the Arizona Immigration Law) as well as the notion of conservative constituents as easily manipulated, emotional/religious fools who cling to their guns and bibles.

Fortunately, the mainstream media doesn't have a monopoly allowing them to control and filter the dissemination of information, though they still try to function as they do. The new media and, more importantly, the internet allow for an overabundance of information from which can be draw information which gives lie to these shameless attempts to dishonestly turn national tragedy into political victory.
 
Shag - do you believe that all politicization of tragedy is bad? Often tragedy points out a need in our society. Say, that the mental health community used this tragedy to create more awareness regarding the lack of communication between different entities (such as schools, the military, etc.) in dealing with identifying people with mental health challenges. It is politicization of a tragedy - they would use this tragedy to approach elected officials for funds to start a program that could prevent this type of oversight happening in the future.

Or the 16th Street Baptist Church Bombing, which markedly changed the rhetoric regarding the civil rights movement. A horrific tragedy, however, after, a real difference. People on both sides of the issue felt the weight that their words had consequences. The pro-civil rights side very much politicized that the hateful words of the opposition literally 'blew up' in this situation. They also used this issue to garner more support from the north, and to create awareness throughout the United States on how terrible segregation was in the south.

Can we look at the Arizona shooting and create 'good'? As a politician your words have an impact - otherwise why are you a politician? You want to make a difference, your words are your 'trade'. The constitution cannot police 'words' in this way, and we should never create law that does. But, perhaps human decency should step in. Those of us in the political arena can 'police' ourselves, acknowledge that there are consequences to our actions, and create an atmosphere of challenging debate, engagement of thought, explore differences, find common ground, without reverting to the violent imagery of the recent past.

Even here shag - you want your well crafted words above to create an impact. Whether you want to change someone's mind here, or start a discussion, you want 'consequences'. Should our politicians, on both sides of the fence, understand that as well? We can't always predict the outcome of our words, it would be impossible. However, perhaps we can mitigate the aftereffect somewhat.

There is little chance that the shooting in Arizona was the direct consequence of any of the violent rhetoric that has proceeded this event, but, perhaps we have been given an opportunity to look at ourselves, and create a better arena.
 
I take issue with the way you are shifting the focus in such a calculated way.
You know full well that this attack was essentially the senseless act of a mental case, but you still are looking for a way to reinforce the concept that the dialog is lacking civility and that, while it may not have had anything at all to do with the violence this weekend, it could in the future. While still being able to deny actually blaming any particular voice or event, it's a very subtle way of reinforcing the perceived negatives and possibly limiting the open discourse. And in this media and regulatory environment, any kind of censorship will basically only hurt conservative and libertarian voices.

The issue Shag has brought up is exploiting a tragedy by misdirecting the public and then using hyper politicization to divide the public and vilify the political opposition. It isn't necessarily about a tragedy highlighting a problem, but an organized political effort to deceive the public in order to achieve an unrelated political goal.

When there's a horrible fire, can the tragedy be used to draw attention to the importance of checking the batteries in you fire alarms. Yes.
But it wouldn't be right for the media and politicians to coordinate a storyline that Keith Olberman and liberals were responsible for the deaths of sleeping babies because they support energy conservation.

Can something good come from this tragedy.
Yes.
The political voices that have sought to politicize it should be identified and their reputations and credibility should be decimated. Exploiting the death and maiming of people in order to attack a political voice that has absolutely nothing to with the event is disgusting. And the public should reject those politicians and political voices.
 
I take issue with the way you are shifting the focus in such a calculated way.
You know full well that this attack was essentially the senseless act of a mental case, but you still are looking for a way to reinforce the concept that the dialog of the "right" is lacking civility and that, while it may not have had anything at all to do with the violence this weekend, it could in the future. It's a very subtle way of reinforcing the perceived negatives and possibly limiting the open discourse.

I am saying dialog on both sides of the fence Cal - I never once took sides here. I am very concerned about the level of vitriol in the political arena as of late, and it isn't 'exclusive' to either side.

And yes, it could have something to do with the future. I don't think we should at all limit open discourse, or in any way create law that does (I am very opposed to the Fair Doctrine act), what I am saying that we, in the political arena, need to understand that there are consequences to our actions. We actually hope there are, we want to create change, on both sides of the spectrum. But, can't we acknowledge that when we create calls to action, that there could be unintended consequences. We don't have to talk about taking out our opponent, lining them up against a wall and shooting them. Our discourse can be civil, should be civil.

The issue Shag has brought up is exploiting a tragedy by misdirecting the public and then using hyper politicization to divide the public and vilify the political opposition. It isn't necessarily about a tragedy highlighting a problem, but an organized political effort to deceive the public in order to achieve an unrelated political goal.
And I agree - I don't believe the left should approach this as vilifying the opposition, but looking at this as a problem of the entire system. I wish the stupid people on the left that are doing this (I watched Bill Mayer last night and almost got sick - his comments were stupid, hateful, and wrong) would stop.

We need some unity in politics now, how about this as a starting point? Quit with the violent rhetoric, both sides do it, and both sides need to admit that it is wrong and agree to back down.
Can something good come from this tragedy.
Yes.
The political voices that have sought to politicize it should be identified and their reputations and credibility should be decimated. Exploiting the death and maiming of people in order to attack a political voice that has absolutely nothing to with the event is disgusting. And the public should reject those politicians and political voices.

And that is fine - that is what the elections will be for - dissect and inform. And I think the congresspeople and senators that are using this to create law regarding the 1st or 2nd amendment need to be held accountable, that their constituents need to call them and tell them that this is not the outcome that this event demands. So, they hear from the people on these issues. Not the NRA, not the ACLU, but the people.

But, in the meantime can't we take this as an opportunity to create some good. Take a step forward instead of backward. Instead of slinging accusations, how about creating solutions. Once again, there can be no set law regarding this - it would be unconstitutional and wrong, but I think our founding fathers expected respect in the halls of Washington. We have moved from civil discourse to hateful mudslinging, and the people have suffered from it in many ways. Perhaps using the Arizona shooting we can look at ourselves, police ourselves, and look ahead, taking responsibility for our actions, and maybe avoid a future situation where everyone is looking to place blame.

If the violent rhetoric stopped, and an evil like this happened again (which it will) we could focus on what matters - the people involved, the real causes underlying it, true solutions to the violence of mass shootings. Instead of pointing fingers in the future again, maybe we could, on both sides of the fence, look for answers.

On a personal note - it has been a long time since I have felt that 'burn' when an issue comes up that needs to be addressed. That there has been a reason for me to really get back into the arena. It has gotten uglier and meaner, once again, on both sides, and it just seemed like I was tired of getting my hands dirty.

Maybe this is the issue that does it - a way to clean my hands as it were. When I see that picture of the beautiful little girl that was taken, I think of mine... and my heart breaks. This type of tragedy will happen again, and although there is a good chance this particular tragedy wasn't caused by the degradation of our current political discourse, maybe the next one will be. I would like to think that there is a chance to prevent tragedy, and I can make a difference.
 
The charlatans' response to the Tucson tragedy - George Will

It would be merciful if, when tragedies such as Tucson's occur, there were a moratorium on sociology. But respites from half-baked explanations, often serving political opportunism, are impossible because of a timeless human craving and a characteristic of many modern minds.

The craving is for banishing randomness and the inexplicable from human experience. Time was, the gods were useful. What is thunder? The gods are angry. Polytheism was explanatory. People postulated causations.

And still do. Hence: The Tucson shooter was (pick your verb) provoked, triggered, unhinged by today's (pick your noun) rhetoric, vitriol, extremism, "climate of hate."

Demystification of the world opened the way for real science, including the social sciences. And for a modern characteristic. And for charlatans.

A characteristic of many contemporary minds is susceptibility to the superstition that all behavior can be traced to some diagnosable frame of mind that is a product of promptings from the social environment. From which flows a political doctrine: Given clever social engineering, society and people can be perfected. This supposedly is the path to progress. It actually is the crux of progressivism. And it is why there is a reflex to blame conservatives first.

Instead, imagine a continuum from the rampages at Columbine and Virginia Tech - the results of individuals' insanities - to the assassinations of Lincoln and the Kennedy brothers, which were clearly connected to the politics of John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald and Sirhan Sirhan, respectively. The two other presidential assassinations also had political colorations.

On July 2, 1881, after four months in office, President James Garfield, who had survived the Civil War battles of Shiloh and Chickamauga, needed a vacation. He was vexed by warring Republican factions - the Stalwarts, who waved the bloody shirt of Civil War memories, and the Half-Breeds, who stressed the emerging issues of industrialization. Walking to Washington's train station, Garfield by chance encountered a disappointed job-seeker. Charles Guiteau drew a pistol, fired two shots and shouted, "I am a Stalwart and Arthur will be president!" On Sept. 19, Garfield died, making Vice President Chester Arthur president. Guiteau was executed, not explained.

On Sept. 6, 1901, President William McKinley, who had survived the battle of Antietam, was shaking hands at a Buffalo exposition when Leon Czolgosz approached, a handkerchief wrapped around his right hand, concealing a gun. Czolgosz, an anarchist, fired two shots. Czolgosz ("I killed the president because he was the enemy of the good people - the good working people. I am not sorry for my crime.") was executed, not explained.

Now we have explainers. They came into vogue with the murder of President Kennedy. They explained why the "real" culprit was not a self-described Marxist who had moved to Moscow, then returned to support Castro. No, the culprit was a "climate of hate" in conservative Dallas, the "paranoid style" of American (conservative) politics or some other national sickness resulting from insufficient liberalism.

Last year, New York Times columnist Charles Blow explained that "the optics must be irritating" to conservatives: Barack Obama is black, Nancy Pelosi is female, Rep. Barney Frank is gay, Rep. Anthony Weiner (an unimportant Democrat, listed to serve Blow's purposes) is Jewish. "It's enough," Blow said, "to make a good old boy go crazy." The Times, which after the Tucson shooting said that "many on the right" are guilty of "demonizing" people and of exploiting "arguments of division," apparently was comfortable with Blow's insinuation that conservatives are misogynistic, homophobic, racist anti-Semites.

On Sunday, the Times explained Tucson: "It is facile and mistaken to attribute this particular madman's act directly to Republicans or Tea Party members. But . . ." The "directly" is priceless.

Three days before Tucson, Howard Dean explained that the Tea Party movement is "the last gasp of the generation that has trouble with diversity." Rising to the challenge of lowering his reputation and the tone of public discourse, Dean smeared Tea Partyers as racists: They oppose Obama's agenda, Obama is African American, ergo . . .

Let us hope that Dean is the last gasp of the generation of liberals whose default position in any argument is to indict opponents as racists. This McCarthyism of the left - devoid of intellectual content, unsupported by data - is a mental tic, not an idea but a tactic for avoiding engagement with ideas. It expresses limitless contempt for the American people, who have reciprocated by reducing liberalism to its current characteristics of electoral weakness and bad sociology.
 
We need some unity in politics now, how about this as a starting point? Quit with the violent rhetoric, both sides do it, and both sides need to admit that it is wrong and agree to back down.

Could you elaborate on what "violent rhetoric" means. Because I don't think putting a target or a bullseye on a map designating a congressional district or political race equates to violent rhetoric.

Maybe this is the issue that does it -
It won't have any positive impact on anything because it the event was hijacked and used to advance a lie, opportunistically attacking people who are innocent people, and advance a political agenda. The end result will be a much greater divide and more tension.
 
Shag - do you believe that all politicization of tragedy is bad?

It is clear what I meant in my post.

The focus was on knee-jerk reaction that is fostered by opportunistic propagandists toward misleading ends which serve to undermine discourse.

If you wanna talk about that, feel free. If you wanna talk about something else, please start your own thread.
 
Something else I forgot to mention when I created this post last night (I was tired). This all derives from the Left's understanding of human nature.

Their understanding of human nature is that it is generally good and perfectible (consistent with the French Enlightenment). Hence, evils coming from the actions of man are not due to the traits of man but from the influence of external factors; bad social institutions, an "unjust" (unequal) society, etc.

It is from this view that the Nihilism in Leftist thought is derived; those bad institutions and unjust society have to be torn down to be remade into a more just society.

This view of human nature also leads those who subscribe to it to tend to look for external factors to explain many things, including crime as well as others disagreements with Leftist thought.

It is not hard to see where the hunt for some external factor to blame for the Tuscon Tragedy comes from. Combine that with the narratives drawn which serve to dismiss non-leftist thought, and this even confirms the worst fears of leftists when taken at face value.

Combine that Nihilism with the need for external explanations for negative human actions, and you logically reach a cynical view of society needing to be drug, kicking and screaming, into enlightenment.

The form that chiefly takes in this country is tricking people into giving up freedoms in light of some "crisis" which we need to ensure never happens again.

This has lead to a number of calls for "unity" and "common ground" which try and get us to put aside principled differences, thus creating an opportunity to redefine national dialog. When you have "Conquer[ed] the Organs of Propaganda" (schools/academia, news media and entertainment media) it is easy to reshape the national dialog on terms better suited to your agenda.

However, that Leftist dominance of those "organs of propaganda" is not near absolute like it was even back in the days of the Oklahoma city bombing. Now we are able to get non-leftist news sources and pull up unfiltered information directly on the internet.

This has resulted in a lot of hand wringing from leftists (like Jon Stewart) about "vitriol in the political arena as of late" and pining for the "good old days" when discourse was more "civil" in there view (because discourse was stifled and dominated by the media).

All this hand wringing sets up renewed calls for policies like "Net Neutrality" which seeks to insert the government in a regulatory role concerning internet content. There are also calls to bring back the Fairness Doctrine (or similar legislation) as a "solution" to this "extremist, violence inspiring rhetoric". IMO, this incident is being manipulated by many on the Left as an attempt to stifle free speech and control national dialog and, more broadly, to regain control of the national dialog.

It needs to be remembered that the cure for bad speech is NEVER less speech but MORE speech. The actions of a deranged young man do not justify any attempt to make discourse more "civil".
 
It needs to be remembered that the cure for bad speech is NEVER less speech but MORE speech. The actions of a deranged young man do not justify any attempt to make discourse more "civil".

So, this is your thrust - that we shouldn't attempt make discourse more 'civil'? If the events of this past weekend don't at least give us pause to look at ourselves, what will?

Perhaps Cal is right - rather than try to right a wrong, create a positive from a negative, we should accept our political climate as it stands.

I remember why my hands feel dirty....
 
Foxy, do you distinguish between calls for personal self-regulation and attempts to make dialog more "civil" through laws stifling speech?

Do you have any proof that the "political climate" had anything to do with this? Every indication is that this guy was not much of a consumer of news or many of the day to day opinion based information outlets.

The influence of the "political climate" needs to be establish. Otherwise, all this hand wringing about our "vitriolic political climate" is simply speculation and, at best, cathartic, nothing more.

Public policy should not result from this incident.
 
Is "civil" discourse more important then productive discourse? The ultimate theoretical example of civil discourse is where everyone agrees. However, this is not possible in the real world except through stifling dissent to create the illusion of agreement.

Totalitarian regimes certainly have "civil" discourse...until they are violently overthrown. While this is an extreme example, it highlights the trade off involved in the effort to create "civil" discourse. Certainly everyone wants civil discourse, but when that starts to stifle legitimate points of view, there is too much of a trade off not only of liberty but of the beneficial check on ideological short sightedness that opposing views provide.

This is why any attempt to create civil discourse through law is unconstitutional per the First Amendment. It is left to individuals to regulate themselves when it comes to civility in discourse and that is how it should be.

But how do individuals regulate themselves? What factors do the need to keep an eye on? What inhibits civil discourse?

While we could go on for days listing all the various factors that can play into a lack of civility, In my opinion they all boil down to two factors; dogmatism and ego. This is because both these factors lead to attempts to undermine the truth and shift the focus of the debate away from; honestly examining opposing viewpoints, objective examination of the facts and, ultimately, from honestly trying to discern what is best for a society. The correct viewpoint has already been determined before the debate and no further examination is necessary. All that is needed now is to get others on board with the correct viewpoint, often by hook or by crook.

Ego is the more obvious one. When ego becomes involved, the focus is on self aggrandizement. Other viewpoints are irrelevant because they challenge your superiority and have to be crushed. This leads to cheap rationalizations for ones viewpoint as well as a lack of critical thought and the development of a coherent viewpoint.

The other factor of dogma is more dangerous and is best explained by a quote of John Stewart Mill that I like to cite often:
So long as an opinion is strongly rooted in feelings, it gains rather then loses in stability by having a preponderating weight of argument against it. For if it were accepted as a result of argument, the refutation of the argument might shake the solidity of the conviction; but when it rests solely on feeling, the worse it fares in argumentative contest, the more persuaded are it's adherents that their feelings must have some deeper ground which the argument does not reach.
It is this viewpoint for which reality has no sway. In fact, reality is simply a variable to be manipulated to fit the agenda when it is convenient, and something to be overlooked at other times. This, again, leads to more rationalizations and attempts to deceive in order to win the debate by default.

These factors, which can serve to reinforce each other, are present in all of us to different degrees and on different issues. However, for most people it is incidental and can, with effort, be usually be overcome.

The danger is in those people for whom these factors consistently dominate. For the ego maniac, all political discourse is simply a means to show off. Any honest, productive dialog is impossible with these people because any disagreement with them is, by definition, irrational. Their ego HAS to dominate the debate and no other viewpoint is accepted as legitimate.

It should be noted that these type of people are easily manipulated through emotional appeals to their ego. They will consistently subscribe to the viewpoint which most readily serves to place them above the "riff raff". These people are essentially useful idiots for the second type of people; propagandists.

The dogmatic propagandist is deft at keeping their ideas from being critically examined and at reframing the debate in a manner favorable to their point of view; a heads-I-win, tail-you-lose situation. The focus of debate is not to prove their ideas right in debate so much as winning by default through show other viewpoints to be heavily flawed and/or immoral. This is toward the end of developing a consensus in favor of their viewpoint by any means necessary. Whether or not their views (or other views) are honestly represented is irrelevant and, many times, inconvenient to the focus on manipulation.

If this tragedy in Tucson leads to self reflection and reevaluation or our personal approaches in political discourse, GREAT! However, maintaining civil discourse makes it imperative that we police discourse on a individual level and civilly but firmly identifying those elements which stifle productive discourse. That includes calling out attempts to co opt this tragedy toward a political agenda. That is the absolute worst of us looking to manipulating our sentiments toward their own ends. Maintaining civil discourse DEMANDS that we shine a light on that evil.
 
Perhaps Cal is right - rather than try to right a wrong, create a positive from a negative, we should accept our political climate as it stands.

But that's not what's taking place here.

Unless of course what you mean when you say "create a positive from a negative" it is in regards to the truly vile and destructive political attack launched by the political left following this tragedy.

You're trying to turn that negative into a positive, shifting the focus from the ugly and opportunistic lies advanced by the Progressive left to some lesson of civility that supposes we all share blame for it. As though everyone is equally at fault. And in the process of doing this, you reinforce the false charges directed at people like the Tea Party, Palin, or Limbaugh.

It's pure manipulation.
 
It is very easy to make false accusations and then poison the well to turn any close examination of those accusations into a confirmation of those accusation.

In fact, that is the simplest explanation of the ricochet theory that Clinton employed after the Oklahoma City bombing. It turns the opposition's justified defense of their decency into confirmation of their lack of decency. It is a very subtle and manipulative tactic.

Making broad generalizations about stifling the "vitriolic rhetoric" can serve to reinforce this tactic by creating the appearance of being "above the fray" while reshaping the issue into a heads-I-win, tails-you-lose situation in which any attempt to defend against these false accusations only serves to confirm them.

If someone is serious about raising the level of debate about the vitriolic and the hateful the the first step is in calling out specific actions that directly inspire that, including dishonest attempts to manipulate events and people. In regards to that instance, it would mean calling out the specific Leftists who are engaging in this actions, like Paul Krugman, and in condemning the type of irrational hate demonstrated by the left toward individuals like Palin encouraged who by Leftists like Krugman...
An aide close to Sarah Palin says death threats and security threats have increased to an unprecedented level since the shooting in Arizona, and the former Alaska governor’s team has been talking to security professionals.​
There are countless twitter posts wishing death to Palin as well. Here are some tweets from one fan of Olberman and Maddow...
We cant expect gov to intervene we must shoot Gen. Palin on site be 4 her troops strike again!

I cant wait till someone serious hurt that bitch Palin or one of her children soon she out of control!

Palin came 2 lower 48 2 start a civil divide this could b the moment of truth 4 americans 2 put her down

Does anyone have that alaskan address 4 the Palins?​

This is not something that "both sides of the isle" engage in and any serious attempt at raising the level of discourse starts with condemning these type of actions.
 
Obama's people handed out t-shirts at the Tucson memorial and all seats had his new logo on them. Absolutely disgusting:

http://www.examiner.com/conservativ...o-political-rally?CID=examiner_alerts_article

For the love of God, give it a rest. The entire event was organized by the U of A, including the the slogan and the T-shirts. It wasn't "Obama's people" handing out shirts, nor is it "his new logo" on them. What's disgusting is people like Michelle Malkin spreading these lies before she even admittedly knew the facts. Malkin's BS is a perfect example of what's wrong with our discourse.

While I found the whooping and cheering inappropriate on many, if not most, of the occasions, there was nothing remotely political about any of the speeches, let alone partisan.
 
Are you saying that an event organized by a State University can't be overtly political in it's tone or coordinated with a Democrat national political campaign that is very calculated when it comes to image? I hope not, because that would be unreasonable. The boo's when Gov. Brewer spoke kind of support that. The Paul Wellstone memorial comes to mind.

I think the branding was distasteful and overtly political, precisely for reasons that Shag and I have mentioned, though it took it to an even higher level. The response to this "crisis" has been very cleverly manipulated. If this call to unity and civility were genuine, I tend to think the President would have expressed it the day of the murders and reigned in his political attack dogs at the time, not waited five days. Regardless....

Let's just support the families hurt this weekend and move this tragedy out of the political realm and into the human one.
 
Do I think an event can't be political? Of course not. But I saw no evidence that this one was, and the T-shirt thing is really grasping at straws. I never saw even a single person wearing one on the telecast. So what the hell did you find so overtly political about the event? Or do you consider any event that Obama attends to automatically be a political rally? Whether you like it or not, Obama is the president. This is what presidents do.

And if you really want to talk about a thoroughly disgusting politicization of a national tragedy, I have two words for you: Nine-eleven.
 
...and the T-shirt thing is really grasping at straws
You can dismiss the efficacy, but the reality is- the event was produced. There was political craft at play there. The event was consciously politically branded.

To presume there was no orchestration between the President's team and the University is just silly. We're talking about the first President with a marketable logo.

So what the hell did you find so overtly political about the event?
You mean besides the branding, the overtly political atmosphere, or the calculated political message?
We've discussed this already, no reason to repeat myself again. I'll ask you to just go look at the older posts.

And if you really want to talk about a thoroughly disgusting politicization of a national tragedy, I have two words for you: Nine-eleven.
Did I not get my slickly marketed 9/11 t-shirts at the National Cathedral?
What was the focus group tested slogan again?
That pep rally at the national memorial service was a hoot though, don't mind the solemn booing that took place when a Democrat took the alter....

Oh wait, that didn't happen.
Furthermore, it's ridiculous to equate 9/11 to Tucson. Tucson was an isolated act of violence, like a school shooting, or someone going "postal", not like an orchestrated series of terrorist attacks the devastate the economy, kill three thousand people, and destroy national landmarks.

And, again, we've discussed the political spin at play here already. Shag even spoke specifically about one component of it defined as the "ricochet theory."
 
I couldn't make out any of the boos when Gov Brewer was up, but I'm not all that surprised given the general rowdiness of the crowd. As I said before, I do think the woots and hollers were totally inappropriate, but I have a hard time believing that they were instigated by Obama's evil minions. What possible political advantage does it give to Obama to have a few morons showing disrespect towards the governor in a nationally televised event, especially given the theme of his speech? Someone booing Obama himself would have served him better if it had been such "cleverly manipulated" event.
 
I have a hard time believing that they were instigated by Obama's evil minions.
Neither do I. But no one said that "evil minions" or the like told the audience to hoot and howl. That's not the point I've been making at all.

In fact, not only do I think they didn't incite the crowd response, I don't think they prepared or expected the raucousness of it. I do not think that was by design or helpful. I think that caught them offguard.

My point is the the message and branding was political and orchestrated. The theme and the slogan were not an accident or conceived by the maintenance staff while decorating the auditorium.

To further elaborate, what's the problem with Obama's presidency right now?
His brand lost it's bipartisan appeal. He's no longer considered above the fray or beyond politics by the disinterested casual voters. This entire event can,and is, being used to triangulate Obama from the fight and ugliness, while allowing the negative attacks and characterizations of his opposition to be reinforced. And if they try to defend themselves, they will further reinforce the charge while also exposing themselves to attacks for dragging the dialog back into the mud or perpetuating the anger... it's a lose-lose for the opposition.

It's very clever and very calculated.
 
Well, they listened Cal.... ;)

The man is a dynamic speaker - and, often reminds me of Southern Preacher 'lite'. Have you ever been to a black Baptist Church? If you aren't used to the reactions of the congregation - it is quite unsettling at first.

The cheers were odd - but not scripted. Once again, you cannot control a 'crowd', they did what they felt compelled to do. The venue and the city surrounding it skew liberal, and yes, probably the audience was more likely to respond this way to a Democrat president.

And once again - he spoke of what I have spoke of now many times, can we not take this tragedy and create a common good?

Shag speaks rather foolishly of twitter posts and threats against Ms Palin. Does he have any idea of the magnitude of the threats and vitriol that has gone hand in hand with this presidency - in fact, with any presidency? She wants to be presidential - this comes with the territory. Heck, I am sure Rush Limbaugh gets worse, or Bill Mahar. She is a political pundit at this point - Glenn Beck gets death threats all the time, so does Olbermann...

It isn't 'right' - but it isn't 'unique'. And you know - if words don't have consequences, why is she worried? Her words and actions, along with those of her fellow pundits and tea party members apparently have no lasting effect - create no call to action, but those of the opposing side do?

The dialog of dealing with violent rhetoric has to happen, both sides are guilty - both sides need to find a way to create a more positive outcome of this event than just a few moving speeches and a moment of silence.

Cal - we cannot just make this a human event - unfortunately - it deals with a Federal Judge and a US Congressperson.

And I also think that the president was wise in not speaking out about this before now. This is a tragedy, but nothing like things like 9/11 or even the Oklahoma City bombing. And rein in who Cal - who would the president 'rein in'? I would really like to know. His staff?

However, I noticed that no one is discussing the Elephant in the Room - Palin's little debacle on Facebook earlier in the day.
 
And once again - he spoke of what I have spoke of now many times, can we not take this tragedy and create a common good?
Yes, we've spoken about this political deception before.

Cal - we cannot just make this a human event - unfortunately - it deals with a Federal Judge and a US Congressperson.
But it wasn't about a federal judge, he was merely in the cross fire. This violence was no more about assinating judges than it was about crime against children. And the Representative wasn't targeted for coherent political reasons either.

It is ONLY a human event unless it is EXPLOITED and redefined for political reasons.

And I also think that the president was wise in not speaking out about this before now.
You know full well that his staff could have publicly or privately told the pitbulls to back off the rhetoric. Like who? How about the Democrat leadership, the "consultants", Clybern, or the minions working through the Center for American Progress, and that idiot Sheriff for example.

However, I noticed that no one is discussing the Elephant in the Room - Palin's little debacle on Facebook earlier in the day.
And thanks for further demonstrating the point I've been making. Reinforcing the original political lies and attack while trying to present yourself as unifying and above the fray.
 
Yes, we've spoken about this political deception before.

It isn't political deception cal - it is an opportunity to create good from evil. I am sorry that you see this as only a left/right issue instead of an American people issue. Perhaps this truly shows the difference between certain factions of the populace. Rather than being about 'me' shouldn't this be about 'us'?

But it wasn't about a federal judge, he was merely in the cross fire. This violence was no more about assinating judges than it was about crime against children. And the Representative wasn't targeted for coherent political reasons either.

It is a political issue - all political assignations are. Sorry cal - you don't seem to understand. A government event, involving elected officials was the venue of a mass shooting. It was from the very beginning a political issue, which doesn't negate that it is also a very 'human' issue.

It is ONLY a human event unless it is EXPLOITED and redefined for political reasons.

Then, by that reasoning Cal, almost every shooting has been exploited. The numbers and events regarding shootings are always used in the defense of stiffer gun control laws, as well as speculation of what drove the shooter. Especially mass shootings such as this one.

You know full well that his staff could have publicly or privately told the pitbulls to back off the rhetoric. Like who? How about the Democrat leadership, the "consultants", Clybern, or the minions working through the Center for American Progress, and that idiot Sheriff for example.

So, the president of the united states should call Clybern and tell him specifically to tone it down? Well, I think then you would have been all over him regarding stifling the first amendment. The only way the president can do this is to create an atmosphere that involves both sides, as he did last night. Last night he told everyone to stand back, look at our political debate, and view it through our children's eyes. He did admonish Clybern, he did admonish the local sheriff, in terms that involve everyone. It is not his place to squelch individual free speech of the people, but to create an avenue that allows us to reflect.

And thanks for further demonstrating the point I've been making. Reinforcing the original political lies and attack while trying to present yourself as unifying and above the fray.

It is nice to be able to say I believe the President of the United States answered Ms Palin quite nicely. I don't have to apologize or explain or retreat from anything he stated last night.
 

Members online

No members online now.
Back
Top