Told I have transmission leak/suspension issues (urgent) after oil change

theg1ft

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Went to the Lincoln / Mazda dealer's service center for an oil change. They told me the transmission pump is leaking and rear tire rod ends and link need replaced. I've never had anyone report anything of the sort. Had a transmission fluid drain and fill about 8k miles ago (August September 2016 time-frame), alternator replace, alignments every 1k-2k miles, a tune up and all other fluids serviced since then. Brand new tires in July 2016. Have bottomed out a few times since. During alignments my right front is showing a bit of negative camber before and after alignment (slight after).

So I've attached photos of the service record they gave me after this oil change. I'm surprised they spent time looking at any of this for an oil change, so I'm a bit skeptical.

Also attached is the quote. In case it helps.

What questions do you think I should ask to help me verify their assessment?

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I can't tell you about the fluid leak without seeing it. I can say that I am 99.9% certain that they are correct about the rear toe-links and end-links. Those seem to have short lives. I've been through a set on each of mine, and both are getting close to needing a new set again. That said, that quote ($1086.15) is a bit high. Ford parts come to $417, should be about an hour in labor, and an alignment.
 
I can't tell you about the fluid leak without seeing it. I can say that I am 99.9% certain that they are correct about the rear toe-links and end-links. Those seem to have short lives. I've been through a set on each of mine, and both are getting close to needing a new set again. That said, that quote ($1086.15) is a bit high. Ford parts come to $417, should be about an hour in labor, and an alignment.
Thank you so much!

Let's assume a small slow leak at the seals near the pump (assuming they are there). How about just a preforming a transmission fluid fill more frequently and perhaps using some sort of high mileage or leak seal additive? Then if it just starts draining every month, get the fix?



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...Let's assume a small slow leak at the seals near the pump (assuming they are there). How about just a preforming a transmission fluid fill more frequently and perhaps using some sort of high mileage or leak seal additive? Then if it just starts draining every month, get the fix?...

Assuming that there is a leak (more than very minor seepage), the problem is that you will do damage to the transmission before you know it is low. Checking the level frequently enough is not practical since there is no dip-stick. In the best case, you start up a hill one day and the car stops moving and you need a tow. In the worst cases, it causes damage to the transmission each time you get symptoms to know that it is low.

I imagine that a good local (not national chain) transmission shop could fix the leak for half the price quoted.
 
Assuming that there is a leak (more than very minor seepage), the problem is that you will do damage to the transmission before you know it is low. Checking the level frequently enough is not practical since there is no dip-stick. In the best case, you start up a hill one day and the car stops moving and you need a tow. In the worst cases, it causes damage to the transmission each time you get symptoms to know that it is low.

I imagine that a good local (not national chain) transmission shop could fix the leak for half the price quoted.


Okay. Thanks for the advice. Sounds pretty urgent. As does the tie rod end.

Do you recommend just taking the diagnostic report to a transmission shop?
 
If you go to a shop, let them do their own diagnosis before you show them the report from the dealer.
 
I had to do the rear tie rods on my car a 2 or 3 years ago and they were in pretty bad shape at that point. Picked up the replacements from Tascaparts and had a local shop install them...pricing seems on the high side.
 
Thanks, this Tasca parts is a great site.

Are these parts prone to failure due to some kind of design issue? Are there any aftermarket parts that are more durable?
 
Thanks, this Tasca parts is a great site.

Are these parts prone to failure due to some kind of design issue? Are there any aftermarket parts that are more durable?

FordPartsGiant is another good site. It varies from part to part where you will find the better deal. Also, Tasca is on e-bay with different prices and shipping than their website.

If there's a design flaw, it would be that they didn't use a good enough rubber on the dust boots. You might head the problem off on the new ones by spraying the boots with silicone spray every few months.
There are aftermarket parts. I don't know if any are more durable. They are cheaper. Most, if not all, eliminate/reduce the passive rear steer feature. There's a lot of debate on here about if that it better or worse. I'm firmly on the side of the passive steer in the OEM parts being the best. I'm sure some will chime in on this thread with the opposite view point.
 
For the rear toe links it's unusual to have a catastrophic failure, but they certainly happen. The boots break, then the joints get loose, letting the wheels wobble a little bit. You can generally tell when it's coming on by directly inspecting the wheels (lift the rear of the car, grab the wheel front and back and try to wobble it sideways), or if the rear feels squirrley while taking corners hard.
If the wheel is tight then it's probably not urgent. If the wheel is already loose then it's definitely time.
 
Took it to the best rated transmission shop in the county.

Looks like they've got to take it out and tear into it to look at the extent of damage ($400) ...

Torque converter suspected damage, seals definitely leaking, talk of pressure loss. Unsure about the state of the pump. Sound like a nightmare to you?

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Any ballpark figures on price for above components being replaced vs rebuild for this thing? I'm going to hear back from them tomorrow and don't know what to expect.

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Quote theg1ft:

"Torque converter suspected damage, seals definitely leaking, talk of pressure loss. Unsure about the state of the pump. Sound like a nightmare to you?"

No... not a nightmare,,, but you might want to start searching for a good reman tranny.

Torque converter only has 2 moving parts. The outer shell, (with starter ring gear that bolts to engine through some method), with a slotted "nose" that engages the pump slots... and an internal part that slides on the transmission input shaft. Torque converter works like 2 fans pushing against each other... using vanes instead of blades. The vanes in the shell... push the vanes of the inner part, (using the tranny fluid), multiplying the torque.

Back to the slots. The slots on the shell nose that interlock with the pump... pressurize the trans pump,,, sending fluid through the internals of the transmission... lubricating all bearings and clutches,,, plus moving fluid through the valve body in which fluid is diverted through many ports controlled by small springs and pistons, (and nowadays,,, the shift solenoid).

This is the basics.

When the bearings on the input shaft of the tranny start to go, (through abuse, improper fluid changes, or wear) this causes a small "wobbling" of the internal part of the torque converter. Over time,,, that small "wobbling" further increases wear on the internal rotating parts within the transmission.

At the same time... wear on the rotating assembly of the engine, (and the crank bearings themselves), causes the same small "wobble" on the outer shell of the torque converter,,, of which the slotted "nose" of the torque converter shell fits into the pump... which has a seal and bushing. The seal leaking,,, is ususally, (but not always), a sign of the pump bushing being worn enough to not keep the torque converter nose "centered".

Again... if the seal is leaking,,, then most likely the pump bushing is shot... either due to normal wear or abuse,,, depending on mileage and/or poor maintenance.

I've replaced a few pump seals and bushings over the years. In many cases,,, it bought quite a bit of time on the trans. If your leak is just a slight drip,,, you might be able to get a way with some minor parts replacement. If your tranny is pi$$ing fluid out the front,,, then it's definitely time to consider a good quality reman.

There's a guy in a recent thread,,, that had his trans rebuilt... and reported back that it had a small vibration in the first couple gears. This tells me that whoever rebuilt the trans... replaced major components,,, but didn't do a full teardown to the housing to replace ALL bearings in the trans... so the trans will have a short overall life

If you decide to let the guys you went to,,, rebuild your trans... ask them what all they are going to replace. If they don't mention any shaft bearings,,, ask how much more to replace them. The price on the rebuild may jump a bit. If they don't mention any kind of overdrive planetary assembly,,, ask how much more for that. Worst case scenario,,, the housing is shot... so bearings won't make a difference... and the trans isn't worth rebuilding.

Not trying to scare you... but make you informed. Ask questions as to what is included in the rebuild, (if needed),,, and what warranty you get.
 
Quote theg1ft:

"Torque converter suspected damage, seals definitely leaking, talk of pressure loss. Unsure about the state of the pump. Sound like a nightmare to you?"

No... not a nightmare,,, but you might want to start searching for a good reman tranny.

Torque converter only has 2 moving parts. The outer shell, (with starter ring gear that bolts to engine through some method), with a slotted "nose" that engages the pump slots... and an internal part that slides on the transmission input shaft. Torque converter works like 2 fans pushing against each other... using vanes instead of blades. The vanes in the shell... push the vanes of the inner part, (using the tranny fluid), multiplying the torque.

Back to the slots. The slots on the shell nose that interlock with the pump... pressurize the trans pump,,, sending fluid through the internals of the transmission... lubricating all bearings and clutches,,, plus moving fluid through the valve body in which fluid is diverted through many ports controlled by small springs and pistons, (and nowadays,,, the shift solenoid).

This is the basics.

When the bearings on the input shaft of the tranny start to go, (through abuse, improper fluid changes, or wear) this causes a small "wobbling" of the internal part of the torque converter. Over time,,, that small "wobbling" further increases wear on the internal rotating parts within the transmission.

At the same time... wear on the rotating assembly of the engine, (and the crank bearings themselves), causes the same small "wobble" on the outer shell of the torque converter,,, of which the slotted "nose" of the torque converter shell fits into the pump... which has a seal and bushing. The seal leaking,,, is ususally, (but not always), a sign of the pump bushing being worn enough to not keep the torque converter nose "centered".

Again... if the seal is leaking,,, then most likely the pump bushing is shot... either due to normal wear or abuse,,, depending on mileage and/or poor maintenance.

I've replaced a few pump seals and bushings over the years. In many cases,,, it bought quite a bit of time on the trans. If your leak is just a slight drip,,, you might be able to get a way with some minor parts replacement. If your tranny is pi$$ing fluid out the front,,, then it's definitely time to consider a good quality reman.

There's a guy in a recent thread,,, that had his trans rebuilt... and reported back that it had a small vibration in the first couple gears. This tells me that whoever rebuilt the trans... replaced major components,,, but didn't do a full teardown to the housing to replace ALL bearings in the trans... so the trans will have a short overall life

If you decide to let the guys you went to,,, rebuild your trans... ask them what all they are going to replace. If they don't mention any shaft bearings,,, ask how much more to replace them. The price on the rebuild may jump a bit. If they don't mention any kind of overdrive planetary assembly,,, ask how much more for that. Worst case scenario,,, the housing is shot... so bearings won't make a difference... and the trans isn't worth rebuilding.

Not trying to scare you... but make you informed. Ask questions as to what is included in the rebuild, (if needed),,, and what warranty you get.

Well... Before they dropped the trans they told me it was leaking out of the front. So I guess that wobbling was coming from the torque converter in the transmission and not the motor mount this whole time.

The warranty for a rebuild is the lifetime of the car. Don't know if its appropriate or not but I figure it might help to post what I see as a "seemingly reputable" transmission shop... they talk about rebuilds and warranty here: http://www.transmissionsolympia.com/transmission-repair-olympia-lacey-wa/

I'm going to be pssing money I can tell you I know that much already. I wonder if the guys that did the trans fluid drain/fill might have done it in for me about 8k miles ago and started some slow developing problems by not replacing enough fluid before letting me drive it home.
 
...I wonder if the guys that did the trans fluid drain/fill might have done it in for me about 8k miles ago and started some slow developing problems by not replacing enough fluid before letting me drive it home.

Nope. However, if they used the wrong fluid...
 
Nope. However, if they used the wrong fluid...
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Well I dug up my service report. If this part description is accurate to what they actually did... bingo?

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Can't say for sure that it was the problem, but I never would have accepted "universal transmission fluid." It should be Mercon V. I doubt that any one fluid could correctly meet all the different specs for all the different transmissions. Also, you should do a full fluid exchange, not just the amount in the pan. Note that a full fluid exchange takes a lot more than 5 quarts. The transmission holds 12 quarts of fluid. (This does not mean that the left the level low, it means that they didn't change out all of the old fluid.) Also, note that for $6.89 you could have got Mercon V (Motorcraft branded even), instead of the junk they used.
 
They said the transmission was welded in!?

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They said the transmission was welded in!?

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As in they actually think the factory welds them in? (It is bolted in.)
Or is it that it is stuck/corroded on and they can't get it out? Must not be too much of a shop, as this is not an extremely uncommon problem. Is this the same shop that put "universal transmission fluid on?" I wouldn't deal with them at all.
 
Thanks, this Tasca parts is a great site.

Are these parts prone to failure due to some kind of design issue? Are there any aftermarket parts that are more durable?

I think mine was just being its location and the long term effects of road debris and road salt in winter. Replacing them after 9-10 years for me wasn't a bad deal. My Volvos chew up end-links, etc much faster and I've learned the hard way (repeat jobs on parts and labour) to use OEM parts.
 
As in they actually think the factory welds them in? (It is bolted in.)
Or is it that it is stuck/corroded on and they can't get it out? Must not be too much of a shop, as this is not an extremely uncommon problem. Is this the same shop that put "universal transmission fluid on?" I wouldn't deal with them at all.
Different place. I never went back to those guys. It was over the phone and I'll clarify what they thought about the weld...

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I think mine was just being its location and the long term effects of road debris and road salt in winter. Replacing them after 9-10 years for me wasn't a bad deal. My Volvos chew up end-links, etc much faster and I've learned the hard way (repeat jobs on parts and labour) to use OEM parts.
This is likely my situation due to Midwest winters.

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As in they actually think the factory welds them in? (It is bolted in.)
Or is it that it is stuck/corroded on and they can't get it out? Must not be too much of a shop, as this is not an extremely uncommon problem. Is this the same shop that put "universal transmission fluid on?" I wouldn't deal with them at all.
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They were referring to the corrosion and rust in the photo. Said they had to take heart to it and it was making quite a bit of noise getting that boot unsiezed.

I probed about what transmission fluid they would recommend it was a dex 5 or Dex 6+friction modifier additive. Is that mercon v?

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