TORTURE!! Terrorist forced to listen to Eminem!!!

[TheDude]

John chapter 8 answers your misstatement. Jesus clearly states ...

You can quote every passage of the Bible to me, but I will repeat myself, I do not believe the Bible is God's written word, I do not believe any religious text is Gods written word. They were all written by men and as such are subject to the ever abundant flaws of man. But that doesn't mean good teachings can't be learned from them.

 

[fossten]

You are a liar and a snake and a stumbler

OOO, you really got me with that name-calling. LOL I can't wait for Deville to respond to this, since he's always accusing me of name-calling and attacking. Where are you Deville? Hmmm? Better give Ravey a rabies shot, he's frothing at the mouth.

No I did not.
I said he didn't whip people. I'm saying he didn't torture anyone...which you in a round about way are inferring he did.

Wrong. You're lying now. I never said he whipped people, but you assumed I did and called me sick for it.

Jesus was a pacifist, and being a pacifist doesn't make anyone a pansy.

Wrong. On both counts.

I have no need of debating skills...

LOL it's a good thing...

Getting physical with a table is not the same as attacking someone or torturing them. Jesus would not have approved of torture no matter what the ends.

LOL your best scenario is that Jesus whipped a table? Hahahahahaha! Why would anyone whip a table? What did the table do wrong? Dude you are hilarious.

Again you snake, you are trying to use Jesus' outburst at the temple as an example of his approval of torture, I'm not asking anyone...I'm calling you out for it

Since when did you care about Jesus anyway? All you have ever done is mock when I talk about Him or the Bible. You are just mad because you know I told you the truth about hell. Get over it and stop whining and sniffling.

 

[fossten]

You can quote every passage of the Bible to me, but I will repeat myself, I do not believe the Bible is God's written word, I do not believe any religious text is Gods written word. They were all written by men and as such are subject to the ever abundant flaws of man. But that doesn't mean good teachings can't be learned from them.

I see. So you claim that they are flawed, but good teachings can still be learned from them. That sounds like you would believe anything you read, if it sounded like something that agreed with your philosophy. Everything else would be rejected as "flawed."

Do you believe there is a heaven and a hell?

 

[raVeneyes]

You are just mad because you know I told you the truth about hell. Get over it and stop whining and sniffling.

[Edited: personal attack]

Go read the end of the other thread. You'll see that I have said what is true in the case of heaven/hell. [Edited: personal attack]

 

[fossten]

[Edited: personal attack]...

Go read the end of the other thread. You'll see that I have said what is true in the case of heaven/hell....[Edited: personal attack]

OH, I see, it's MY fault that you called me names! I MADE you do it. You just CAN'T HELP YOURSELF. Typical liberal tactic, blame somebody else instead of taking responsibility, while STILL insulting and name-calling. What a great guy.

Thank you for illustrating to ALL OF US the TRUE LIBERAL MINDSET. It's refreshing to see such honesty. Monstermark, DON'T EDIT THIS GUY. We all need to see what he really is.

'Sniffle'

 

[raVeneyes]

OH, I see, it's MY fault that you called me names! I MADE you do it. You just CAN'T HELP YOURSELF. Typical liberal tactic, blame somebody else instead of taking responsibility, while STILL insulting and name-calling. What a great guy.

Thank you for illustrating to ALL OF US the TRUE LIBERAL MINDSET. It's refreshing to see such honesty.

'Sniffle'

No no, I'll take complete blame for it. I have a problem where I can't hold my opinions back, no matter how obvious the truth of a situation. It's sad really and I should work on that. I'm sorry for all the name calling fossten, I will allow your foot in mouth comments to support their own obvious brilliance from now on.

 

[fossten]

No no, I'll take complete blame for it. I have a problem where I can't hold my opinions back, no matter how obvious the truth of a situation. It's sad really and I should work on that. I'm sorry for all the name calling fossten, I will allow your foot in mouth comments to support their own obvious brilliance from now on.

LOL your "backtracking" has no weight since it is STILL laced with sarcastic insults.

This is such a great day. I had no idea it was so easy to frustrate you.

 

[TheDude]

OOO, you really got me with that name-calling. LOL I can't wait for Deville to respond to this, since he's always accusing me of name-calling and attacking. Where are you Deville? Hmmm? Better give Ravey a rabies shot, he's frothing at the mouth..

I do not agree with Raven's name calling, do you see me cheering him on for it? But you have used the same tactics on him and others. So being a student of the Bible you should be aware of 'An eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth'. You should also be aware of Jesus's own teaching 'He without sin shall cast the first stone.'

Wrong. You're lying now. I never said he whipped people, but you assumed I did and called me sick for it.
Wrong. On both counts..

I agree with you on this, you didn't actually say 'Jesus beat them'... But I asked you to clarify your contradiction in the previous thread. I cut.pasted it here, see below.

"So did Jesus beat them or not? Your first satement says you didn't say he got physical, which is true, you didn't actually say so. But you then you say he did or it seems he did."

LOL your best scenario is that Jesus whipped a table? Hahahahahaha! Why would anyone whip a table? What did the table do wrong? Dude you are hilarious.

Just as you never said Jesus actually whipped anyone, Raven never said Jesus whipped the table. Don't cry about being mis-quoted then turn around and do the same thing. The passage from the Bible says Jesus 'overthrew' the table.

"Originally Posted by raVeneyes
Getting physical with a table is not the same as attacking someone or torturing them. Jesus would not have approved of torture no matter what the ends."

 

[raVeneyes]

LOL your "backtracking" has no weight since it is STILL laced with sarcastic insults.

You're right...I'm sorry...I'm sorry for saying I was sorry.

 

[raVeneyes]

Shoot I did it again...I'm sorry..dang it, sorry...aww man...I can't help it...I apologize.

 

[fossten]

I agree with you on this, you didn't actually say 'Jesus beat them'... But I asked you to clarify your contradiction in the previous thread. I cut.pasted it here, see below.

"So did Jesus beat them or not? Your first satement says you didn't say he got physical, which is true, you didn't actually say so. But you then you say he did or it seems he did."

Obviously the Bible doesn't say. But I find it hard to believe that he fashioned a whip and then didn't use it. Personally, I think he did whip the people.

But you have a problem either way: If he only used it to scare people, how is that not "extreme psychological/mental pain" as you claim torture is?

Believe what you want to, but 'causing someone to fear for his life' is extreme psychological/mental pain.

Did you or did you not say that?
http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=15223

Just as you never said Jesus actually whipped anyone, Raven never said Jesus whipped the table. Don't cry about being mis-quoted then turn around and do the same thing. The passage from the Bible says Jesus 'overthrew' the table.



"Originally Posted by raVeneyes
Getting physical with a table is not the same as attacking someone or torturing them. Jesus would not have approved of torture no matter what the ends."

Okay, he said Jesus got physical with a table. Again, I say, what did he use the whip for? Just holding it in his hands surely frightened somebody, and that falls under torture in your book.

 

[TheDude]

Obviously the Bible doesn't say. But I find it hard to believe that he fashioned a whip and then didn't use it. Personally, I think he did whip the people.

But you have a problem either way: If he only used it to scare people, how is that not "extreme psychological/mental pain" as you claim torture is?

Did you or did you not say that?
http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=15223.

I certainly did and that response from me was to your 'Making someone fear for their life is not torture'... Shaking a whip at someone is not making them fear for their life, my grandma would shake a huge wooden spoon at me when I was six so I would stop trying to eat sweets before dinner. I didn't fear for my life though. If you want to believe Jesus used physical harm, go ahead, but his 'turn the other cheek' teaching contradicts that.

Okay, he said Jesus got physical with a table. Again, I say, what did he use the whip for? Just holding it in his hands surely frightened somebody, and that falls under torture in your book.

See my response above....

 

[fossten]

I certainly did and that response from me was to your 'Making someone fear for their life'... Shaking a whip at someone is not making them fear for their life, my grandma would shake a huge wooden spoon at me when I was six so I would stop trying to eat sweets before dinner. I didn't fear for my life though. If you want to believe Jesus used physical harm, go ahead, but his 'turn the other cheek' teaching contradicts that.



See my response above....

Ummm...one MASSIVE flaw in your logic is that you, as usual, insert facts not in evidence. NOWHERE does it say that Jesus 'shook a whip' at people. Raveneyes, on the other hand, claimed that Jesus used the whip to scare people.

You are wiggling.

 

[TheDude]

Ummm...one MASSIVE flaw in your logic is that you, as usual, insert facts not in evidence. NOWHERE does it say that Jesus 'shook a whip' at people. Raveneyes, on the other hand, claimed that Jesus used the whip to scare people.

You are wiggling.

Lol... Just as you believe Jesus used the whip to beat people I believe he didn't use it to actually whip people. The Bible doesn't specify it as you have said, so we both don't know with 100% certainty. We must go by what we know of Jesus. I see him as a teacher of peace who leads by example, hence 'turn the other cheek', you see him otherwise.

 

[fossten]

Lol... Just as you believe Jesus used the whip to beat people I believe he didn't use it to actually whip people. The Bible doesn't specify it as you have said, so we both don't know with 100% certainty. We must go by what we know of Jesus. I see him as a teacher of peace hence 'turn the other cheek', you see him otherwise.

I NEVER SAID I SEE HIM OTHERWISE. You are again putting words in my mouth. I am pointing out an aggressive, overt act that would be considered an attack by the pacifists.

Whether or not he used the whip doesn't matter.

Do you think Jesus would be in favor of militaries in order to defend countries? What about spies? Does God favor defeating your enemies or just capitulating to them out of fear? Again, if somebody starts beating up your wife, would Jesus approve of you ripping his testicles from his body in order to protect her? How about this: Jesus said to "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" and the apostle Paul taught that we are to "obey them that have the rule over you." Does that mean our soldiers are not sinning if they kill an enemy? If we beat a confession out of a terrorist and save thousands of our citizens' lives by preventing an attack, is that wrong according to Jesus?

 

[TheDude]

I NEVER SAID I SEE HIM OTHERWISE. You are again putting words in my mouth. I am pointing out an aggressive, overt act that would be considered an attack by the pacifists.

Whether or not he used the whip doesn't matter.

Do you think Jesus would be in favor of militaries in order to defend countries? What about spies? Does God favor defeating your enemies or just capitulating to them out of fear? Again, if somebody starts beating up your wife, would Jesus approve of you ripping his testicles from his body in order to protect her? How about this: Jesus said to "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" and the apostle Paul taught that we are to "obey them that have the rule over you." Does that mean our soldiers are not sinning if they kill an enemy? If we beat a confession out of a terrorist and save thousands of our citizens' lives by preventing an attack, is that wrong according to Jesus?

OK! YOU NEVER SAID SO! I just don't see him saying "Turn the other cheek'" and then swinging a wipe to put the beat down on people. Pretaining to this matter.

I really don't know what Jesus meant with all his teachings, but some teachings like peace and tolerance are clearer than others.

 

[fossten]

I really don't know what Jesus meant with all his teachings, but some teachings like peace and tolerance are clearer than others.

Really? Then how do you explain this?



"Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."
Jn.14:27

"Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you."

Acts 10:36
"The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ."

Mt.10:34 (Jesus speaking)
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

Lk.12:51 (Jesus speaking)
"Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law."

Lk.22:36 (Jesus speaking)
"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

Yeah, he's a real pacifist.

 

[TheDude]

Like I said before when you snapped at me, I interpret Jesus teachings as love & peace; you can interpret them how you see fit.

 

[fossten]

Like I said before when you snapped at me, I interpret Jesus teachings as love & peace; you can interpret them how you see fit.

Wiggle wiggle wiggle...

You didn't answer my question.

 

[TheDude]

Wiggle wiggle wiggle...

You didn't answer my question.

What was your question?

What do you think about Jesus's 'Turn the other cheek' saying?

"An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Ya, Jesus was saying to go and kick some ass there........

And, don't point the finger at me for something you do yorself. Mr. Wiggles.

 

[fossten]

Really? Then how do you explain this?


"Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."
Jn.14:27

"Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you."

Acts 10:36
"The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ."

Mt.10:34 (Jesus speaking)
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

Lk.12:51 (Jesus speaking)
"Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law."

Lk.22:36 (Jesus speaking)
"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

Yeah, he's a real pacifist.

That was my question. I made it really big and bold so you could find it.

You're dodging my question by asking another one. Wiggle.

 

[TheDude]

That was my question. I made it really big and bold so you could find it.

You're dodging my question by asking another one. Wiggle.

Actually, I asked you to clarify your question so I could answer it (most questions end with a question mark), me asking a different question of you is not a dodge since I have to wait for your clarification obviously. Lol, I just don't get you..... You're also pointing the finger at me again of something you do yourself. Just can't help it huh?

(Your answer, thank you for clarifying)

I've given it some thought, can't say that I have a definite understanding of what Jesus was saying there, he isn't very clear, but he doe's say suppose, so I suppose he wasn't giving a straight forward answer either for peace or for violence, but more posing a question. As a what if.......

Care to answer my question of Jesus’ "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

It seems like he is not advocating violence even in the face of violence.

 

[fossten]

Actually, I asked you to clarify your question so I could answer it (most questions end with a question mark), me asking a different question of you is not a dodge since I have to wait for your clarification obviously. Lol, I just don't get you..... You're also pointing the finger at me again of something you do yourself. Just can't help it huh?

(Your answer, thank you for clarifying)

I've given it some thought, can't say that I have a definite understanding of what Jesus was saying there, he isn't very clear, but he doe's say suppose, so I suppose he wasn't giving a straight forward answer either for peace or for violence, but more posing a question. As a what if.......

Care to answer my question of Jesus’ "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

It seems like he is not advocating violence even in the face of violence.

First of all, your 'answer' is baloney. 'Suppose ye' used here means 'assume ye', not 'what if.'

You're still not answering my question. But I'll answer yours.

Jesus' complete statement is "If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." Of course, any striking is a painful blow, but the striking in this case is meant as a gross insult (cf. 2 Corinthians 11:20). If a right-handed person strikes someone's right cheek, presumably it is a slap by the back of the hand. A fist striking you would be on the left cheek. So this teaching by Jesus is not about self-defense, but about an attack on your dignity.

In the eastern culture slapping someone is considered an insult of the highest order. But Jesus says that His disciples should gladly be willing to endure the insult again.

Christians are permitted to defend themselves and their families (Exodus 22:2; Numbers 1:2-3; Ecclesiastes 4:12; Luke 22:36; Acts 22:1; 25:10-11; 2 Timothy 4:16) and to use God-ordained authority to keep evil from harming them or others (Proverbs 28:8; Acts 16:37-39; 22:23-29).

However, what is forbidden is the taking of vengeance (Romans 12:17-21), bitterness (Ephesians 4:31), and retaliation (1 Peter 2:23). These are absolutely forbidden by Jesus and the apostles.

 

[TheDude]

First of all, your 'answer' is baloney. 'Suppose ye' used here means 'assume ye', not 'what if.'

You're still not answering my question. But I'll answer yours.

Jesus' complete statement is "If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." Of course, any striking is a painful blow, but the striking in this case is meant as a gross insult (cf. 2 Corinthians 11:20). If a right-handed person strikes someone's right cheek, presumably it is a slap by the back of the hand. A fist striking you would be on the left cheek. So this teaching by Jesus is not about self-defense, but about an attack on your dignity.

In the eastern culture slapping someone is considered an insult of the highest order. But Jesus says that His disciples should gladly be willing to endure the insult again.

Christians are permitted to defend themselves and their families (Exodus 22:2; Numbers 1:2-3; Ecclesiastes 4:12; Luke 22:36; Acts 22:1; 25:10-11; 2 Timothy 4:16) and to use God-ordained authority to keep evil from harming them or others (Proverbs 28:8; Acts 16:37-39; 22:23-29).

However, what is forbidden is the taking of vengeance (Romans 12:17-21), bitterness (Ephesians 4:31), and retaliation (1 Peter 2:23). These are absolutely forbidden by Jesus and the apostles.

Lol, did you read the beiginning where I said " can't say that I have a definite understanding of what Jesus was saying there"

So excuse my ignorance on my 'baloney' answer.

As far as Jesus teachings, this is just going in circles; can we at least agree to disagree? I see Jesus as a teacher of love and peace, you can see Jesus as a teacher of love & peace, you can see him as a whip wielding punisher or whatever you wish.

 

[TheDude]

First of all, your 'answer' is baloney. 'Suppose ye' used here means 'assume ye', not 'what if.'

You're still not answering my question. But I'll answer yours.

Jesus' complete statement is "If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." Of course, any striking is a painful blow, but the striking in this case is meant as a gross insult (cf. 2 Corinthians 11:20). If a right-handed person strikes someone's right cheek, presumably it is a slap by the back of the hand. A fist striking you would be on the left cheek. So this teaching by Jesus is not about self-defense, but about an attack on your dignity.

In the eastern culture slapping someone is considered an insult of the highest order. But Jesus says that His disciples should gladly be willing to endure the insult again.

Christians are permitted to defend themselves and their families (Exodus 22:2; Numbers 1:2-3; Ecclesiastes 4:12; Luke 22:36; Acts 22:1; 25:10-11; 2 Timothy 4:16) and to use God-ordained authority to keep evil from harming them or others (Proverbs 28:8; Acts 16:37-39; 22:23-29).

However, what is forbidden is the taking of vengeance (Romans 12:17-21), bitterness (Ephesians 4:31), and retaliation (1 Peter 2:23). These are absolutely forbidden by Jesus and the apostles.

Lol, did you read the beiginning where I said " can't say that I have a definite understanding of what Jesus was saying there"

So excuse my ignorance on my 'baloney' answer. <--- Sarcasm

As far as Jesus' teachings, we're just going in circles, can we agree to disagree? I see Jesus as a teacher of love & peace, you can see Jesus as a teacher of love & peace, as a whip wielding punisher of the wicked or whatever you wish.