U.S. Ends Fruitless Iraq Weapons Hunt

[crazyman]

The fact is that the rest of the world, ( well 99% of it anyway), was not in favor of invading Iraq. Why? because despite their fears over Saddam, they didn't want to be responsible for singlehandedly wrecking a country. Over 70% of Falluja has been leveled and we haven't even driven them all out yet. How greatful are the people who live there? I read a real interesting story about Iraqi christians who had been given religious freedom by Saddam. They went to church, worshipped and were even allowed to sell alchohol to other christians. They no longer reside in Iraq. They had to flee because it is now too dangerous for them. It took a week to defeat Saddam's army and now we've spent like a year fighting randon insurgents. That kind of gives me the impression that Saddam wasn't that big of a threat to us. I'm not saying that Saddam didn't need delt with, but anyone who thinks this was the only way; well I don't get it. By the way, I'm not a liberal, I'm not conservative,. I'm not Democrat nor Republican. I'm just a simple atheist who likes loud music and hates war. I think that the idea that you solve problems by blowing up large areas of a country with very little regard for civilian life is absolutely insane. Going to war for peace is like f***ing for virginity. And thats not to say that I have any hostilty towards our armed forces. They are very brave people who we need... For protection, not aggresion. Personally, I'd like to see our forces come home and protect our "what should be" sealed, hard to get into boarders, then we; get rid of our corrupt ass; narrow minded leadership, fix our messed up; can't support my family with 2 jobs economy, help the poor, sick and hopeless in OUR country, and THEN worry about the rest of the world. I find it hard to get teary-eyed over the charity, wait, I mean the propaganda (winning of hearts and minds) that we bestow upon other countries, when I see the things that I see right here at home.

 

[MonsterMark]

Wow. After reading those last 2 posts, let's just say I am glad that 52% of America believes that President Bush did, and is doing, the right thing.

I would rather have to work harder to pay more taxes than to sit back and coast, which is certainly a strategy that would guarantee that my kids would have no future. Who wants to survive in a fallout shelter? Who wants to live thru a nuclear winter? Not me. And until we kill all the bad guys, that is potentially our future.

There is no amount of appeasement, no amount of money, no quantity of virgins that can be offered up that will stop these evil people from harming us. They want us all dead. They want our society destroyed. There is no middle-road for them. There is no 'leave us alone and we'll leave you alone' scenario. Only death will utimately decide this struggle. Either we die, or they die.

That's the cold hard reality we all face. Sorry to have to lay it out there.

 

[Vetecisforgrandmas]

Wow. After reading those last 2 posts, let's just say I am glad that 52% of America believes that President Bush did, and is doing, the right thing.

I am not one to get into politics and all, but if the american public doesn't have a clue what the truth is, thats a problem. I can come up with stats to prove anything I want, its not hard. The way I see it is that if bush came out into the open and said something like "We are over there because I wanted to settle a score" it would be interesting to hear what people had to say about it. I for one could care less about him, we are stuck with him for the next 4 years. I just wished he would be honest for once.

Also, bush made it seem like there were weapons of mass destruction in iraq, but none were found. I don't doubt that he knew that there were no weapons, but that was a cover. I personally don't trust anything the government says, especially when it comes to things like weapons...

 

[crazyman]

We've been involved in Middle East issues since before most of the people attacking us were born. I can't say whether they would leave us alone if we left them alone. Why? Because we haven't left them alone in a long, long time. I do know that going to Iraq and killing many many people, and destroying whole cities isn't helping relations any. If they insisted in being involved in our problems for 60 years and then came to our country, dropped bombs on neighborhoods and killed alot of innocent people, we would react the same way they are. In fact we would be raining bombs on them like mad with no discression whatsoever. So, since everyone thinks the same, how is provoking people making us safer. I'd say that, since we went to Iraq, our danger has been elevated beyond what it was during the cold war. I know that 52% of the people would disagree with that, and we could go back and forth all day. I have no energy for that, so I'll just wait and let history decide. I don't think its as simple as we die or they die though. I think its more like a whole lot of all of us die. And the ones left... They fight somemore. That being said, I'm going to go back to talking about cars and girls and sports.
I'd rather :Beer than argue2

 

[barry2952]

Who wants to survive in a fallout shelter? Who wants to live thru a nuclear winter? Not me. And until we kill all the bad guys, that is potentially our future.

Chicken Little couldn't have said it any better himself.

I reiterate, "George Bush is a liar". Always has been, always will be. And he's stupid, to boot.

 

[MonsterMark]

Chicken Little couldn't have said it any better himself.

Looks like Humpty Dumpty is still sitting on the wall.

And he's stupid, to boot.

Sometimes facts are hard to come by, eh!

Bush/Kerry IQ Comparison

Steve Sailer has an exhaustive analysis of standardized tests taken by the two candidates, including SATs and officer candidate aptitude tests, to conclude that, if anything, George Bush is probably a little smarter than John Kerry. The article wanders a great deal, and never quite gets down to claiming a direct comparison, but if I read it right the conclusion is that both men have IQs of 120 or higher, and that Bush's is probably in the range 125-130. In other words both are above the 90th percentile in IQ, but Kerry's is probably in the low 90s and Bush's in the mid 90s. Sailer also draws some conclusions about the differences between how the men are likely to use their gifts: " The subtle difference between Bush and Kerry in two words: Bush is competitive and Kerry is ambitious." Read the whole thing.

This Just In—Kerry's IQ Likely Lower than Bush's!
By Steve Sailer

"Does anyone in America doubt that Kerry has a higher IQ than Bush? I'm sure the candidates' SATs and college transcripts would put Kerry far ahead."

Howell Raines
- Former Executive Editor of the New York Times
"The 'Dumb' Factor"
Washington Post, August 27, 2004
​

Oh yeah?

On this tenth anniversary of the publication of the much-denounced The Bell Curve, it's amusing to reflect on one of the enduring ironies of American political life. Liberals tend to believe two things about IQ:

First, that IQ is a meaningless, utterly discredited concept.

Second, that liberals are better than conservatives because they have much higher IQs.
Thus back in May, hundreds of liberal websites, and even the prestigious Economist magazine, fell for a hoax claiming to show that states that voted for Al Gore in 2000 have higher average IQs—by as much as an incredible 28 points—than states that voted for George W. Bush.

(In reality, no such data exist. But, for what it's worth, Bush and Gore voters were identical in educational level, and the states they won were almost dead even in 8th grade achievement test scores.)

Similarly, in 2001, many liberals, including Doonesbury cartoonist Gary Trudeau and The Guardian newspaper, fell for the notorious "Lovenstein Institute" prank, which absurdly claimed that the IQ of Bush, a man with two Ivy League degrees, was a sub-average 91, while Bill Clinton's was a Galileo-like 182.

But now I've turned up some hard facts about the IQs of Kerry and Bush.

Most significantly, at the age of 22, both men took the IQ-type tests required of candidate military officers. (The U.S. military, which has studied the predictive power of IQ in vastly more detail than any other institution, remains intensely dedicated to the value of intelligence testing.)

Bush's scores on the Air Force Officer Qualifying Test have been briefly mentioned in the press. But no-one before now has fully explained what they mean.

And, even more important, this is first article to publish Kerry's score on the Navy's Officer Qualification Test.

The two tests aren't perfectly comparable. But they provide no evidence that Kerry is smarter. If anything, Bush is smarter than Kerry.

These scores are still relevant because IQ's don't change much over time. The Daily Telegraph of London reported on a 66 year long study in Scotland:

"People who sat an IQ test at the age of 11 in 1932 were ranked in exactly the same order when they took the exam again at the age of 77, showing that intelligence is stable throughout life." [Longevity is linked to IQ, By Auslan Cramb, September 28,2000]

So the scores politicians earned as college seniors still have surprising significance.

http://www.vdare.com/sailer/kerry_iq_lower.htm

 

[mespock]

Boy oh Boy!!

Bryan vs Barry again!! :F two intelligent gents each with their own style!!

Are the 4 year of Bush over!! Can I stop my hibernation!!!

Is the US still a Democracy!!! Or an Empire!!!

Do we still elect a president or is the self proclaimed Emperor of the world still in power.

Remember the German people were fooled by Hitler and followed him blindly!!

They believed his lies and followed him to their demise!

 

[Kbob]

What a broken record this thread has turned out to be. Take your pot shots at Bush all you want. It's pathetic whether in faux jest or in spite. The "liar liar pants on fire" stuff is a complete waste of time, especially when most of us know who hates Bush here.

To isolate ourselves is to condemn our country. Isolationism is a proven failure in every single case in history. I'm sorry, but that is a naive and irresponsible viewpoint.

I'm not saying that criticism isn't warranted, but we're committed now and have been for 2 years. Anything constructive to say on the subject? Or have you just given up and now your sole purpose is to infect everyone else with a defeatist attitude. "Woe is our country!!"

 

[barry2952]

Let me make myself perfectly clear. I didn't vote for Kerry, I voted against Bush. I've never voted for a Democrat in my life, until this election.

I'm not comparing Kerry to Bush, you are. I'm not judging Bush by Kerry's level of intelligence, I'm comparing him to my level. At least I can pronounce "nuclear". Bryan, didn't you watch the debates? The world was laughing at Bush.

Mespock's analogy comparing Bush to Hitler hits eerily close to home. Hitler had 52% of his people's support, too. He came to power in hard economic times and catapulted to power on the premise that he would make things better. Sound familiar? Hitler tried to wipe out Jews and Gypsies. Bush went after Afghans and Iraquis. The North Korean people are preparing for an invasion by US forces. I think they are right to be afraid of GWB.

How can you keep defending Bush by casting blame on Clinton? What does Iraq have to do with 9/11? Show me one credible link and I'll leave the subject alone. Promise. Until then, I stand by my statements that Bush is a stupid liar.

 

[MonsterMark]

I'm comparing him to my level. At least I can pronounce "nuclear". Bryan, didn't you watch the debates? The world was laughing at Bush.

Bush was absolutely terrible in debate #1. I know exactly what it is like to run yourself too thin before you make a big presentation. My largest failure in business came when I stay up for 2 straight days preparing for a venture capital meeting. I couldn't put 2 words cohesively together. People came out of the meeting thinking I had lost my mind. I didn't get a dime. Same with Bush. He wore himself ragged taking care of other people (hurricane) and was simply mentally and physically exhausted. Been there, done that. In debates 2 and 3, he wiped Kerry's ass with Kerry's own hand. Bush is tremendously smart. He is a street fighter. Watch the Apprentice this season. The 'Book Smarts' vs the 'Street Smarts'. The Street Smarts will destroy the book smarts. Watch.

Hitler tried to wipe out Jews and Gypsies. Bush went after Afghans and Iraquis. The North Korean people are preparing for an invasion by US forces. I think they are right to be afraid of GWB.

Great comparison. Hitler killed INNOCENT people without regard. We are killing BAD GUYS. Are there innocent casualites? Sure. But name another country in history that goes so far out of the way to protect innocent lives as we do, much of the time exposing our own to unnecessary risks? We are going to invade Korea? If you don't learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it. Invasion??? Laughable!

How can you keep defending Bush by casting blame on Clinton? What does Iraq have to do with 9/11? Show me one credible link and I'll leave the subject alone. Promise. Until then, I stand by my statements that Bush is a stupid liar.

Because of all the pansies running around, it took an event like 9/11 to help sway public opinion about having the balls to deal with Saddam. Clinton doesn't have balls. Bush does. 10 years was long enough to wait for the SURRENDERED LOSER to come into compliance with the terms he agreed to back in 1991. 9/11 was the impetus to get us to finally confront reality.

Maybe I should send a letter to all your customers, explaining that they really do not have to pay their leases and invoices. That the terms that they agreed to (after all, they didn't have a gun to their head, did they) really don't mean anything because you are not going to do anything anyway if they don't pay up. Get the analogy?

 

[FreeFaller]

Free Faller, from your statements ("a work of fiction that only portrays servicemen as ignorant brutes, high on adrenaline and heavy metal music with a blatant desire to kill") I'm guessing you've never seen F-9/11. American soldiers are not portrayed as you have described. After you get done patting yourself on the back, take off your blinders and watch the movie. $4 on PPV, is that too much to spend for enlightenment?

Yes, I have seen F 9/11.

Oh, and here's more servicemen "patting themselves on the back" at the tomb of the unknown soldier. Maybe you should go there... Maybe you should go to your local VFW and speak to those men and women. Maybe you should go... Forget it... I just want to talk about cars now...

"Here Rests
In Honored Glory
An American Soldier
Known But To God"

The Sentinels Creed

My dedication to this sacred duty is total and wholehearted.
In the responsibility bestowed on me never will I falter.
And with dignity and perseverance my standard will remain perfection.
Through the years of diligence and praise and the discomfort of the elements,
I will walk my tour in humble reverence to the best of my ability.
It is he who commands the respect I protect.
His bravery that made us so proud.
Surrounded by well meaning crowds by day alone in the thoughtful peace of night,
this soldier will in honored glory rest under my eternal vigilance

:L

 

[mespock]

One very important tidbit to remember in the political forum!

Everyone has an opinion. Everyone has some fact whether exaggerated or not that for some reason they hold dear! This is still America a country that people like FreeFaller has dedicated a portion of their life time to defend!

Remember that even if some posts buy members may disagree with what you believe we are still one great group of people enjoying this great site created by some wonderful people!

My hats of to you and members like you FeeFaller who have chosen to serve our country. My hat is off to those who have died carrying out their orders and duty.

My heart bleeds for the families of those who have suffered loss!

FeeFaller, these debates have graced this forum since the start of LvC. Don’t let anyone’s opinion upset you! But please make sure that you state your opinion. As this is an open forum for all to express how they feel, whether it’s a popular opinion or not.

I consider Bryan a good friend even though we do not have the same political views. What we do know is that we both :L and that’s the purpose of this site! and don't for get :C .

I also know that Barry and Bryan have a lot of fun both with good facts! and if you read older Threads you will see that there is respect of each other.

 

[hottweelz]

I don't think FreeFaller is taking it personally he's debating like everyone else

 

[MonsterMark]

Thanks for the fine sentiments Rich. You hit the nail on the head. I PM'd Steve (Freefaller). He is fine with the debate. People can get hot under the color. That is what brings out the passion and make things fun.

I like all you guys. Whether we agree or disagree. I like to disagree. How else can you learn?

I like to go after Barry because he takes it and dishes it out. gotta run...

 

[mespock]

I don't think FreeFaller is taking it personally he's debating like everyone else

I know Steve is new here and if he hasn't gotten arojnd to read some of Bryan's and Barry's Post Election Debates - to someone new it might look like they hate each other.

Like Bryan said what's great about this site is we accept the fact that other members may have a difference of opinion from our own personal view.

And again what helps make this site great is that this site is so American!

Just like Lincolns vs Cadillacs we has Reps vs Dems, Cons vs Libs, etc.

My hats off to :V :Beer

 

[JohnnyBz00LS]

I'd have to agree, this is the only forum (of the half-dozen or so that I frequent) where discussions like these are:

A) Welcomed.
B) Don't degrade into immature pissing matches.

I meant no dis-respect to FreeFaller, I commend and appreciate anyone who serves for this great country. My grandfather was a WWI vet, my father a WWII vet, and my wife served during Gulf War I. It just pains me deeply to see our great service men and women put into harms way un-necessarily, or at least when it is not the last resort.

:V
:L

 

[RRocket]

Bryan,

On Augist 6, 2001 Bush and Rice-baby were told an attack was ALMOST imminent. But they didn't believe it was credible enough. Too bad 3000 Americans died because he ignored the warning...So who's rolling the dice, Bryan?

 

[MonsterMark]

Bryan,

On Augist 6, 2001 Bush and Rice-baby were told an attack was ALMOST imminent. But they didn't believe it was credible enough. Too bad 3000 Americans died because he ignored the warning...So who's rolling the dice, Bryan?

And the planes took off from John Kerry's airport, Boston Logan, where Kerry was personally briefed on the potential terrorists passing thru the airport. He ignored it and passed the buck. And that's who YOU wanted in the hot seat?

PASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! I love revisionists, almost as much as back seat drivers.

Eh, I see Canada really initially stood up after the Tsumani. Something like $3 mil trickled out at 1st. Impressive. See, even your PM is a dink at times.

 

[hottweelz]

And the planes took off from John Kerry's airport, Boston Logan, where Kerry was personally briefed on the potential terrorists passing thru the airport. He ignored it and passed the buck. And that's who YOU wanted in the hot seat?

Its actually sad how many people passed that buck, dems, reps, indies, aliens

 

[barry2952]

Bryan,

You are guilty of projection. You can no longer defend Bush by bashing Kerry. Bush is our President, not Kerry. You can't defend Bush's acting on false WMD information by saying that Kerry or Clinton would have done the same, you don't know that.

You know as well as anyone that we could have handled Iraq differently. It may have taken longer but it may not have been as deadly to American forces and INNOCENT Iraquis.

Bashing Canada about tsunami aid in this thread is typical of the Bush administration's smokescreen tactics. You really need to admit that Bush :q:q:q:qed up and that we will be paying the price for years to come.

We could do a whole thread on smokescreens. All politicians do it. We need to put an end to it and insist on the truth from our leaders. I know your response will be "You can't handle the truth" but I believe we can and we deserve it.

Bush will go down in history as a stupid liar. Don't drag yourself down with him. You're too intelligent for that.

 

[dertyclown]

Back off

They didn't exist in the first place, and Bush's unconcerned reaction seems to show that he didn't care if they were found or not. He definitely had other reasons for going there. Personally, I'd like for him to just tell the truth. If it was for revenge for his father, oil, whatever, I don't care. I'd just like to know the real reason why. I don't understand why you would lie about the reasons for going to war, when you intend on going to war regardless of the rest of the world's opinion.

Im not a fan of our or any outher goverment. I think who killed kennidy is a better question???? Bush did not fight for going to war, he was mearley presanted (by rumsfeld) with the info to make an informed dechion. we do hase satilight photos of thies wepons. at any rate no one will disagre that sadom neded to be over thrown. you might ask why our problem, since we know why we are there. well who put him in power, we did so we are cleaning up our own mess. I just pray for my frends and familey that our over there. also dont blame bush Congress had to pass it.

 

[barry2952]

Dertyclown,

Your post is nonsense. Kennedy?

 

[MonsterMark]

That all sounds so well and good Barry, BUT, you know for darn sure that if we had had another attack, of any kind, Bush would be taking hell for it. They would say he did nothing. And you know it. There is no win-win for Bush, so he has to do what is right and just. The left purposely sabotages this country in an effort to achieve and maintain power.

(tangent)
5 years ago Clinton was talking about the CRISIS in Social Security. Now that Bush is going to do something about it, ALL THE LEFT is coming out and saying that there really isn't a problem and that Bush is going to CREATE the problem.

Slowly but surely, the American public's eyes and minds are being freed from the trappings that the liberals have had on them thru government policies, the mainstream tv media and national press and the education system. Slowly but surely, the brainwashing from the left is being neutralized. The country is returning to its conservative roots. More good times are ahead for all of us.

(Back to the topic at hand)
Had Saddam been left to his devices, he would have obtained the WMD he so badly needed (I still think it was moved by the ruskies) and then threatened his region with them. He would have the upper hand with Iran, could have invaded Saudi Arabia, cut off oil supplies in the region and turned the western-world economies on their ears. Gas would be, what, $100 a gallon? This is the scenario I think would have played out if Saddam would have stayed and continued to work on his programs. Heck, just the threats he could make would have half of us quaking in our boots.

He could have cemented his friendships with the Russians, who are btw, working very hard to get in bed with the Chinese. The traitors like France and Germany would throw up their hands and surrender and we (US,Brits,Aussies) would be outmanned and outgunned, from a tactical, non-nuclear standpoint. We would have to submit. I don't know about you, but I do not want to be anybody's b!tch.

I toss things out like Kerry passing on the threats he received and had first hand knowledge of because it needs to be shown that as a leader, he would have been an unmitigated disaster and was a threat to our freedom.

I hate Kerry as much as you hate Bush. As for going down with Bush, you bet I will. I spent 3 months of my life getting him re-elected because he was and is the best man for the job at this time in our history. And history has proven that men of conviction like Ike, Kennedy, Reagan, and now Bush2, are what make and keep this country great.

Stop and think about it! Not even a car-bomb or spilled milk in over 4 years. I thank the Lord and I thank George Bush everyday for that track record. It know it won't last forever but I know this. I have never seen anyone get into a fight when they knew going in that they were going to get their butts kicked bad and maybe not even get in a punch. Ever. Peace thru strength is the only way to achieve true and lasting peace. It is in our dna. It is all we understand as humans.

P.S. You can keep calling Bush a stupid liar, but the more you do, the more I am convinced that you personally don't believe it.

 

[barry2952]

Please believe it Bryan. I truely believe that my dog has more common sense than GWB. Plus, he can lick his own balls.

You are nothing more than a fearmonger. That's how the new Republican Party works.

 

[MonsterMark]

Ah, the politics of fear and destruction. How quaint!

Do you know why a dog licks his balls?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Because he can!