Who's to blame???

[MonsterMark]

I love how frustrated the media is over not being able to blame Bush for Katrina. I love it. It is so fun to watch the handwringing. Notice the Question Mark. LOL
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From Drudge:

CNNUSATODAYGALLUP POLL: ONLY 13% BLAME BUSH?
Wed Sep 07 2005 10:42:26 ET

A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll of 609 adults taken September 5-6 shows:

Blame Game -- 13% said George W. Bush is "most responsible for the problems in New Orleans after the hurricane"; 18% said "federal agencies"; 25% said "state and local officials"; 38% said "no one is to blame"; 6% had no opinion. -- 29% said that "top officials in the federal agencies responsible for handling emergencies should be fired"; 63% said they should not; 8% had no opinion.

MORE

Government Performance -- 10% said George W. Bush has done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 25% said "good"; 21% said "neither good nor bad"; 18% said "bad"; 24% said "terrible"; 2% had no opinion. -- 8% said federal government agencies responsible for handling emergencies have done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 27% said "good"; 20% said "neither good nor bad"; 20% said "bad"; 22% said "terrible"; 3% had no opinion. -- 7% said state and local officials in Louisiana have done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 30% said "good"; 23% said "neither good nor bad"; 20% said "bad"; 15% said "terrible"; 5% had no opinion.

 

[fossten]

There you go, fiberals, not only are you on the wrong side of America on this one, but your Fib leaders in the media and the Dem party are disconnected from mainstream America! You either have to accept or reject the validity of polls in toto. You can't pick and choose.

 

[Vitas]

I love how frustrated the media is over not being able to blame Bush for Katrina. I love it. It is so fun to watch the handwringing. Notice the Question Mark. LOL
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
From Drudge:

CNNUSATODAYGALLUP POLL: ONLY 13% BLAME BUSH?
Wed Sep 07 2005 10:42:26 ET

A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll of 609 adults taken September 5-6 shows:

Blame Game -- 13% said George W. Bush is "most responsible for the problems in New Orleans after the hurricane"; 18% said "federal agencies"; 25% said "state and local officials"; 38% said "no one is to blame"; 6% had no opinion. -- 29% said that "top officials in the federal agencies responsible for handling emergencies should be fired"; 63% said they should not; 8% had no opinion.

13%. That would make anyone scrounging for something, anything, anything at all, to find fault with Bush, a left wing commie SDS radical...rest of comment withheld.

DEMOCRATS, get your own candidate elected. Who was the last Democrat President that you could be proud of, Jimmy Carter, 25 years ago?

If you cannot get your own candidate elected, leave the rest of us alone.

GET YOUR MINDS OUT OF THE GUTTER. -g-

 

[raVeneyes]

13%. That would make anyone scrounging for something, anything, anything at all, to find fault with Bush, a left wing commie SDS radical...rest of comment withheld.

DEMOCRATS, get your own candidate elected. Who was the last Democrat President that you could be proud of, Jimmy Carter, 25 years ago?

If you cannot get your own candidate elected, leave the rest of us alone.

GET YOUR MINDS OUT OF THE GUTTER. -g-

Amazing how well right wing typical Flash and Distract works here.

Of course only 13% said Bush is to "Blame" for the hurricane...the two questions they asked just show that the people answering them weren't idiots. Bush didn't do some rain dance and cause the hurricane...but when asked how well the President responded to the disaster, a much larger percentage responded poorly than positively.

People aren't dumb...they're saying "No one is to blame for a hurricane, a natural occurrence, hitting New Orleans, but the President and the federal agencies didn't do a good job responding"

 

[Vitas]

Amazing how well right wing typical Flash and Distract works here.

Of course only 13% said Bush is to "Blame" for the hurricane...the two questions they asked just show that the people answering them weren't idiots. Bush didn't do some rain dance and cause the hurricane...but when asked how well the President responded to the disaster, a much larger percentage responded poorly than positively.

People aren't dumb...they're saying "No one is to blame for a hurricane, a natural occurrence, hitting New Orleans, but the President and the federal agencies didn't do a good job responding"

HAHAHA

If your answer makes you feel happy, so be it. People understood the essence of the question, and...responded.

 

[Vitas]

Amazing how well right wing typical Flash and Distract works here.

Actually, it was stated IN the question:

Blame Game -- 13% said George W. Bush is "most responsible for the problems in New Orleans after the hurricane"

-lol-

 

[raVeneyes]

HAHAHA

If your answer makes you feel happy, so be it. People understood the essence of the question, and...responded.

Ok, so if they understood the essence of the question how do *you* explain the huge difference in numbers.

If the essence of both questions is "Is it Bush's fault that the disaster was as bad as it is" then the people that they asked seem to be a bit confused by their answers.

 

[Vitas]

Amazing how well right wing typical Flash and Distract works here.

People aren't dumb...they're saying "No one is to blame for a hurricane, a natural occurrence, hitting New Orleans, but the President and the federal agencies didn't do a good job responding"

We will have to take that premise under advisement...although it is clear what the advisement will be.

Geez, surely you can do better than that.

 

[Vitas]

Ok, so if they understood the essence of the question how do *you* explain the huge difference in numbers.

If the essence of both questions is "Is it Bush's fault that the disaster was as bad as it is" then the people that they asked seem to be a bit confused by their answers.

Answered. See above.

 

[Creeker]

Try as he may, Bush isn't God,he just wants to be king of the world. but even he didn't cause the hurricane, the fault lies in the total confusion and lack of hands on help getting to the people in need, it took fema 8 days to set up any sort of direct aid.
People calling in for help were being asked for their addresses in order to get an application number for an aid package. Government people handling cases have lost touch with reality, this is a crisis and they are treating people like another case in their daily routine of justifying their positions in govt. Private citizens did a lot more than the govt.That head of fema guy didn't even know until 3 or 4 days after the hurricane that anything was happening. There's going to be a lot of blame game going on, and it should be. Bush is trying to "cop out" by saying we have to look to the future and not go into what went wrong. It's embarassing to the rest of the world to see what a mess the relief effort is.

 

[Vitas]

Try as he may, Bush isn't God,he just wants to be king of the world.

When you start a statement that way, you clearly show your bias. IMO, that is not a way to discourse to arrive at results.

Overall, at this particular moment, I think that it is fair to say that "the other side" is looking for the slightest scintilla to "get" Bush, and it is not, in my opinion, as an American citizen, after the merciless attack in NY on 9/11/01, the right position to take.

 

[cruzah]

I really don't think that anyone can blame the government for katrena.
She was a cat 1 hurricane when she grazed florida and turned into one of the biggest monsters so fast in the gulf that there was no way that all those people could have been evacuated with so little time.
Bush was just as suprised as anyone else and with the resources that we have(our boys being in the gulf and all) i think the response was as good as it could have been.

 

[raVeneyes]

I really don't think that anyone can blame the government for katrena.
She was a cat 1 hurricane when she grazed florida and turned into one of the biggest monsters so fast in the gulf that there was no way that all those people could have been evacuated with so little time.
Bush was just as suprised as anyone else and with the resources that we have(our boys being in the gulf and all) i think the response was as good as it could have been.

That's just what the Bush administration's spin has been on the whole disaster.

How can you say a week long lag time between the disaster and a real Federal government response is as good as it could have been? :Bang People were dragging their feet and not doing their jobs...both Democrat and Republican.

 

[raVeneyes]

When you start a statement that way, you clearly show your bias. IMO, that is not a way to discourse to arrive at results.

I hate to tell you, but no discourse on a lincoln vs cadillac web site is going to arrive at results...you insult your own intelligence if you think it will.

Overall, at this particular moment, I think that it is fair to say that "the other side" is looking for the slightest scintilla to "get" Bush, and it is not, in my opinion, as an American citizen, after the merciless attack in NY on 9/11/01, the right position to take.

The 'other side' is always looking to 'get' the guy in the President's office. It wasn't, in my opinion as an American citizen, after the merciless attacks on the USS Cole, the right position to maintain either...but the Republican congress and RNC decided to keep trying to 'get' Clinton even though he needed the bandwidth to respond to other things.

That's what I've been saying...partizan politics is to blame for the slow movement of our nation on a number of issues...and the key users of partizan politics in the last two decades have been the Republican party members, all the while touting a 'extend a hand across the aisle' facade.

 

[raVeneyes]

Answered. See above.

No smart guy...it has not been answered...you've quoted, BOLDED and re-highlighted the fact that only 13% said Bush is responsible for the problems in New Orleans, but you have not addressed the wide gap between that number and the number who say his and the Federal government's response was not adequate.

 

[Kbob]

People calling in for help were being asked for their addresses in order to get an application number for an aid package.

Are you talking about people calling in to be rescued or people wanting financial assistance? There's a big difference there. I agree that things need to be stream-lined to get assistance to those in need quickly. But I am NOT for handing out sums of money with no accountability. Talk about a huge opportunity for corruption and thievery. And what's wrong with asking for an address? This can be used to verify ID. Give your last known address, then state where you are, whether it be in the Astrodome or your second cousins house in Arkansas.

 

[Kbob]

When you start a statement that way, you clearly show your bias. IMO, that is not a way to discourse to arrive at results.

I don't have a problem with it. It lets me know quickly where a person stands on an issue and/or ideologically (or illogically for that matter).

 

[Kbob]

I hate to tell you, but no discourse on a lincoln vs cadillac web site is going to arrive at results...you insult your own intelligence if you think it will.

I'm not sure whether to be offended or not. Are you talking about this web-site in particular? Or about car guys actually being able to comprehend complex political issues? Either way I guess you're talking about me in general. But I'm not really offended, so no apology is necessary. :Beer

Something for you to think about is that although relatively few contribute to the debates here, many many more just listen. And just because whoever happens to be doing the most obnoxious arguing doesn't mean that that person is perceived as the winner of the debate by those who are listening. On the contrary, most people are usually turned off by those tactics. Facts and thoughtful opinions are what count most. And I will concede that most people will stick to their guns no matter what, but some can be reasonable. And often those few are the ones that turn the tide. I'm sure you know this, otherwise you wouldn't be posting. I'm just stating it on record for everyone else to see.

 

[fossten]

I hate to tell you, but no discourse on a lincoln vs cadillac web site is going to arrive at results...you insult your own intelligence if you think it will.



The 'other side' is always looking to 'get' the guy in the President's office. It wasn't, in my opinion as an American citizen, after the merciless attacks on the USS Cole, the right position to maintain either...but the Republican congress and RNC decided to keep trying to 'get' Clinton even though he needed the bandwidth to respond to other things.

That's what I've been saying...partizan politics is to blame for the slow movement of our nation on a number of issues...and the key users of partizan politics in the last two decades have been the Republican party members, all the while touting a 'extend a hand across the aisle' facade.

And you insult the people on this board, yet again, with your irresponsible comments. Your statement shows you think you're better/smarter than everyone posting on this board, but your posts show the opposite.

Case in point: The last part of your post, showing how little you know of history. You said 20 years, indicating that you don't realize that the Republicans have only been in power since 1994.

2nd Case in point: Your knowledge of history again falters. No US political party of any decade has ever stooped to the low depths of the politics of personal destruction, forged documents, prevarication, demagoging, and blatant politicizing of tragedies like the present day Democratic Party, with its willing accomplices in the media and loudmouth undeserving crap-movie makers like Michael Moore. It's unprecedented.

3rd Case in point: Partisan politics isn't the root cause of failures like this hurricane disaster relief effort, it's LARGE BUREAUCRACIES CREATED BY CONGRESS. Yes, both parties to blame.

 

[raVeneyes]

I'm not sure whether to be offended or not. Are you talking about this web-site in particular? Or about car guys actually being able to comprehend complex political issues? Either way I guess you're talking about me in general. But I'm not really offended, so no apology is necessary. :Beer

Well let me apologize anyway if you took my meaning wrong. What I meant is that politicians and representatives aren't really reading the social discussions we have here, and therefore our conversations are an exercise in small social change, not a grandiose attempt at getting 'results' on a national scale.

Something for you to think about is that although relatively few contribute to the debates here, many many more just listen. And just because whoever happens to be doing the most obnoxious arguing doesn't mean that that person is perceived as the winner of the debate by those who are listening. On the contrary, most people are usually turned off by those tactics. Facts and thoughtful opinions are what count most. And I will concede that most people will stick to their guns no matter what, but some can be reasonable. And often those few are the ones that turn the tide. I'm sure you know this, otherwise you wouldn't be posting. I'm just stating it on record for everyone else to see.

Thank you...

 

[raVeneyes]

Case in point: The last part of your post, showing how little you know of history. You said 20 years, indicating that you don't realize that the Republicans have only been in power since 1994.

No, as I remember there was a Republican president for most of the 80's...I wonder if you remember him?

Also the push by Republican spin doctors and the Republican smear campaign was started long before the 1994 elections.

2nd Case in point: Your knowledge of history again falters. No US political party of any decade has ever stooped to the low depths of the politics of personal destruction, forged documents, prevarication, demagoging, and blatant politicizing of tragedies like the present day Democratic Party, with its willing accomplices in the media and loudmouth undeserving crap-movie makers like Michael Moore. It's unprecedented.

I simply disagree here. I have the view that the Republican party has been much more guilty of this in the last twenty years than the Democratic one, but I'm sure that view would break down party lines no matter who you ask. Let's just say both parties suck and have been smearing each other (which is what I was saying in the first place)

3rd Case in point: Partisan politics isn't the root cause of failures like this hurricane disaster relief effort, it's LARGE BUREAUCRACIES CREATED BY CONGRESS. Yes, both parties to blame.

I can agree with that...

 

[Kbob]

Well let me apologize anyway if you took my meaning wrong. What I meant is that politicians and representatives aren't really reading the social discussions we have here, and therefore our conversations are an exercise in small social change, not a grandiose attempt at getting 'results' on a national scale.



Thank you...

Ah, now I see (said the blind man . . . )

You're welcome. And please, you may call me Senator John McCain . . . j/k.

 

[FreeFaller]

The thing that tears me up is that the left is capitalizing on the average Americans lack of understanding of the logistical process involved in such a massive relief effort. I'm here to tell you that the process of building a relief effort began within hours of Katrina's landfall. It takes a while for things to work out. Not because of partisan politics or abhorrent leadership qualities, but because the movement of thousands of personnel and huge amounts of equipment/supplies takes time.

My favorite quote (although I am sure I will butcher it) was...

Reporter: Why weren't the troops already here?

General: I don't normally place soldiers in the eye of a hurricane...

What really cracks me up is that when a hurricane is projected to occur in the vicinity of a military installation we get the hell out of dodge. It never suprises me that people who live nearby see the best trained, best equipped and most determined people in the area leaving and they think they can ride it out in their little wooden house. Amazing...

 

[raVeneyes]

The thing that tears me up is that the left is capitalizing on the average Americans lack of understanding of the logistical process involved in such a massive relief effort. I'm here to tell you that the process of building a relief effort began within hours of Katrina's landfall. It takes a while for things to work out. Not because of partisan politics or abhorrent leadership qualities, but because the movement of thousands of personnel and huge amounts of equipment/supplies takes time.

My favorite quote (although I am sure I will butcher it) was...

Reporter: Why weren't the troops already here?

General: I don't normally place soldiers in the eye of a hurricane...

What really cracks me up is that when a hurricane is projected to occur in the vicinity of a military installation we get the hell out of dodge. It never suprises me that people who live nearby see the best trained, best equipped and most determined people in the area leaving and they think they can ride it out in their little wooden house. Amazing...

I'm not upset that it takes a long time to get troops there, I'm upset that it took so long to send them there in the first place.

argue2

 

[Kbob]

My favorite quote (although I am sure I will butcher it) was...

Reporter: Why weren't the troops already here?

General: I don't normally place soldiers in the eye of a hurricane...

That's a good one.