Will BuSh ever tell the truth?

[TheDude]

Because that was a lateral move, conservative for conservative. Now we want a conservative for a moderate, and then a conservative for a liberal to push the court firmly to the right so we can save this great nation from disintegrating into debauchery.

While you're at it, why dont you just burn the Constitution and comand everyone in America how they should live, pray, marry and die? Your point of view and people like you is frightenly scary and reminiscent of germany during Nazi control.

 

[MonsterMark]

So you are admitting you want someone in power that will 'lay the law' so to speak based on their religious convictions?

NOPE.
I want someone that will not 'lay the law' but will instead 'interpret' the law as is the function of the court. And to have someone 'interpret' the law that also fears the Almighty is a plus in my book.

 

[MonsterMark]

While you're at it, why dont you just burn the Constitution and comand everyone in America how they should live, pray, marry and die? Your point of view and people like you is frightenly scary and reminiscent of germany during Nazi control.

Actually, we are exactly the opposite. It is just that people like me don't want to see the moral and social decay continue to spread in this country. We are the people that defend the constitution. From the tone of your 2 posts here, it sounds like you are the kind of guy that wants to destroy embryos, celebrate atheism, endorse coupling of any human arrangement, assist killing of people not deemed worthy of living(in your mind), prevent kids from saying a prayer in school, remove anything to do with the bible and its teachings from our buildings,(including the 10 commandments), on and on. So who is the one that is frightingly scary? Not me. Look in the mirror. As for Nazi Germany, it is the beliefs held by people like me that brought down the Nazis. Better study some history.

Yaay, we got a fiesty one here.

 

[TheDude]

NOPE.
I want someone that will not 'lay the law' but will instead 'interpret' the law as is the function of the court. And to have someone 'interpret' the law that also fears the Almighty is a plus in my book.

But the 'Almighty' is worshipped in many many ways in this country, America is not a land of just one religion. So, it would be best if law givers did not look to religion in any of its varied forms to pass the law.

Also, isnt there something in the constitution about separation of church and state?

 

[TheDude]

Actually, we are exactly the opposite. It is just that people like me don't want to see the moral and social decay continue to spread in this country. We are the people that defend the constitution. From the tone of your 2 posts here, it sounds like you are the kind of guy that wants to destroy embryos, celebrate atheism, endorse coupling of any human arrangement, assist killing of people not deemed worthy of living(in your mind), prevent kids from saying a prayer in school, remove anything to do with the bible and its teachings from our buildings,(including the 10 commandments), on and on. So who is the one that is frightingly scary? Not me. Look in the mirror. As for Nazi Germany, it is the beliefs held by people like me that brought down the Nazis. Better study some history.

Yaay, we got a fiesty one here.

Lets break it down....

1) Destroy embryos. I am against abbortion personally, what we need is higher sex education and birth control education. Both of which the religious right is against, go figure. They condemn women for getting abortions but they condemn them for seeking ways not to get pregnant in the first place.

2) Atheism. What is wrong with being an atheist? Freedom of religion or lack of is granted by the constitution. I am agnostic, I can safely say God is greater and far more complex than can be written in a few book by man. *It seems like you can't stand anyone that doesnt share your exact religious views. (*Please respond)

3) Endorse coupling of any human arrangement. Yes I do, I believe in freedom of choice, if two men want to marry and be a couple I dont care, its none of my business, I dont want to spend any time thinking about it. *You obviously hate or disapprove of homosexuals. What I will never understand is why the religious right cares so much. If you are correct and it is against God, then they will have to answer to God and God alone when the time comes. The bible even says only God can pass judgement. *How do two men (or women) having sex that you dont know affect your life? (**Please respond)

4) Assist Killing of People. Hmmm, you say in my mind?? I dont get this one. Do you mean like Jack Kevorkian. If so, then I'm neutral on that one. The only thing I can say, if I were sick and had an absolute chance of living and knew that I faced my last few days in pain in misery. I hope someone would assist me (meaning I made the choice) in dieing if that were my wish.

5) Prayer in school. Against it, school is a place for education of the mind, if you want religion we have churches and other places of worship for that. Schools are not filled solely with christian minded children. How would you feel if after your child prayed for Jesus (in school) he was required to pray for Allah and praise Mohammed followed by scriptures from the Torah with a side of incense burning and prayers for Buddah? *I bet you would be against that huh? (*Please respond)

6) Remove anything to do with the bible from buildings. Yes & no, depends on the building (bible or other religious text). If people want to pray and it is their constitutional right to do so America has hundreds of places of worship like churches.

Now, who's point of view is the least constitional? As far as I cant tell, you're against anyone that doesnt share your exact views and religious beliefs. If that isn't as un-american as you cant get. I dont know what is.

Also, not very important, but are you a Lincoln or Cadillac man?

 

[Calabrio]

First of all, the "seperation of church and state" is not in the Constitution. What we have is an establishment clause. In essence, the constitution protect religion from government influence. It does not say that religious people can not shape the government. That is contrary to way this country was found, based on the principle that liberty was a right derived from God.

Lets break it down....

1) Destroy embryos. I am against abbortion personally, what we need is higher sex education and birth control education. Both of which the religious right is against, go figure. They condemn women for getting abortions but they condemn them for seeking ways not to get pregnant in the first place.

Incorrect. You're generalizing, but for the sake of argument, I'll try to accomodate your claim.

There is no significant debate over whether or not sex education should take place. The debate is over how it is taught, at what age, and what is taught. And whether or not abstinence should be taught. It's not hard to "not" get pregnant if you're not having sex at the age of 14.

2) Atheism. What is wrong with being an atheist? Freedom of religion or lack of is granted by the constitution. I am a agnostic, I can safely say God is greater adn far more comlpex than can be written in a few book by man. It seems like you can't stand anyone that doesnt share your exact religions views.

No one would stop you from being an athesist. And where is Government PREVENTING you from practicing your non-religion?

3) Endorse coupling of any human arrangement. Yes I do, I believe in freedom of choice, if two men want to marry and be a couple I dont care, its none of my business, I dont want to spend any time thinking about it. You obviously hate and or disapprove of homosexuals. What I will never understand is why the religious right cares so much. If you are correct and it is against God, then they will have to answer to God and God alone when the time comes. The bible even says only God can pass judgement. How do two men (or women) having sex that you dont know affect your life?

I'm not going to be able to sum up the entire homosexual marriage debate in one quick statement. In short, you've mischaracterized the entire debate. Marriage is an institution, and it has a way of shaping our society and culture. There are homosexuals who don't think Gay marriage is a good idea either.

And I know of no argument that is saying that we should condemn or perscute gay couples. Just that they shouldn't be able to get formally married.

4) Assist Killing of People. Hmmm, you say in my mind?? I dont get this one. Do you mean like Jack Kevorkian. If so, then I'm neutral on that one. The only thing I can say, if I were sick and had an absolute chance of living and knew that I faced my last few days in pain in misery. I hope someone would assist me (meaning I made the choice) in dieing if that were my wish.

Slippery slope argument applies here. And if you don't have the faculties to decide, should someone else have the right to have you put to sleep? If you are poor, and living on the state, should the government have you put to sleep to save money? What about children, do their parents decide if they should be killed if they are sick? Slippery slope. And in this format, there isn't the space to get into the nuance.

5) Prayer in school. Against it, school is a place for education of the mind, if you want religion we have churches and other places of worship for that. Schools are not filled solely with christian minded children. How would you feel if after your child prayed for Jesus (in school) he was required to pray for Allah and praise Mohammed followed by scriptures from the Torah with a side on incense burning and prayers for Buddah? I bet you would be against that huh?

Public schools shouldn't have prayer. I'll go with you on that.
But why can't parents have more choices as to where to send their children? I support school vouchers. If you want school prayer, send them to a religious based school.

6) Remove anything to do with the bible. yes, refer to #5.. if people want to pray and it is their constitutional right to do so America has churches etc. for such activities.

There is no reason, consitutional or social, why any reference to religion should be removed from the public.

Now, who's point of view is the least constitional? As far as I cant tell, you're against anyone that doesnt share your exact views and religious beliefs. If that isn't as un-american as you cant get. I dont know what is.

Well, since you clearly don't know anything about the constitution or the founding of this country, I don't think your opinion on the matter holds a hell of a lot of weight. You don't even know the details surrounding the issues you just mangled....

 

[TheDude]

First of all, the "seperation of church and state" is not in the Constitution. What we have is an establishment clause. In essence, the constitution protect religion from government influence. It does not say that religious people can not shape the government. That is contrary to way this country was found, based on the principle that liberty was a right derived from God.


Incorrect. You're generalizing, but for the sake of argument, I'll try to accomodate your claim.

There is no significant debate over whether or not sex education should take place. The debate is over how it is taught, at what age, and what is taught. And whether or not abstinence should be taught. It's not hard to "not" get pregnant if you're not having sex at the age of 14.

No one would stop you from being an athesist. And where is Government PREVENTING you from practicing your non-religion?


I'm not going to be able to sum up the entire homosexual marriage debate in one quick statement. In short, you've mischaracterized the entire debate. Marriage is an institution, and it has a way of shaping our society and culture. There are homosexuals who don't think Gay marriage is a good idea either.

And I know of no argument that is saying that we should condemn or perscute gay couples. Just that they shouldn't be able to get formally married.


Slippery slope argument applies here. And if you don't have the faculties to decide, should someone else have the right to have you put to sleep? If you are poor, and living on the state, should the government have you put to sleep to save money? What about children, do their parents decide if they should be killed if they are sick? Slippery slope. And in this format, there isn't the space to get into the nuance.


Public schools shouldn't have prayer. I'll go with you on that.
But why can't parents have more choices as to where to send their children? I support school vouchers. If you want school prayer, send them to a religious based school.


There is no reason, consitutional or social, why any reference to religion should be removed from the public.


Well, since you clearly don't know anything about the constitution or the founding of this country, I don't think your opinion on the matter holds a hell of a lot of weight. You don't even know the details surrounding the issues you just mangled....

Um, this was for MonsterMarks point of view, get a ticket and wait in line. Relax, its a debate, unwind your panties.

1) The religious right has tried to stop sex education in schools in the past. Look it up.
2) That was for MonsterMark, he is the one that said 'Celebrate Atheism' like it was a bad thing.
3) Lawrence vs Texas, thats just one example of the presecution of gay's that happened and is still happening in this country. Also, you dont see the hypocrisy, a hetrosexual couple can get married but a homosexual couple can't?
4) You are generalizing now. I said if I (only I) were able to make the choice that I wanted to die by my will instead of a lethal desease, I would like that choice to be available. This is a slippery one and can't be summed up in a few lines for various reasons, some of which you stated.
5) We were debating public schools. I wouldnt defend a Muslim that willingly signed up to a Catholic school then wanted all religious classes banned. Or vice versa.
6) I cant fully disagree with you, but I bet a war would start if Muslims wanted to add scripture from the Quran to public building etc.


You're right, I am clueless, you are far superior and your point of view is the only one that counts. Feel better now?

 

[barry2952]

Brian's a little more complex than you might think. He's not as one sided as he appears. There's a slight streak of compassion mixed in with all that bluster.

What I can't understand, is why, after all the times we've butted heads, he's still a fan of GWB? I don't get it. Brian has more brains in his pinky than GWB has in his head yet he blindly follows like a puppy dog.

 

[barry2952]

you mean little man

That was my perception too. I believe I accused MonsterMark of that too, only to find out he was big mean man.

 

[TheDude]

Brian's a little more complex than you might think. He's not as one sided as he appears. There's a slight streak of compassion mixed in with all that bluster.

What I can't understand, is why, after all the times we've butted heads, he's still a fan of GWB? I don't get it. Brian has more brains in his pinky than GWB has in his head yet he blindly follows like a puppy dog.

I'm not questioning his intelligence, as far as I can tell, he is very intelligent. I question the use of his intelligence.

 

[JohnnyBz00LS]

Democrat = candy ass

Republican = poop-head

I'd personally rather have an ass made of candy than a head made of poop.

:give

 

[Calabrio]

1) The religious right has tried to stop sex education in schools in the past. Look it up.

Again, no they aren't. It's the curriculum that is the subject of debate. Not the idea of teaching clinical sexual education. Look it up.

3) Lawrence vs Texas, thats just one example of the presecution of gay's that happened and is still happening in this country. Also, you dont see the hypocrisy, a hetrosexual couple can get married but a homosexual couple can't?

The sodomy laws are considered a bad use of law everywhere in this country, and they are very rarely ever inforced. However, Lawrence V. Texas is an example of bad Supreme Court decision making... but that's an entirely different subject.

And there is nothing hypocritical about not sanctioning gay MARRIAGE. Marriage serves a usual cultural and social purpose, gay marriage does not. And marriage has distinct associations with moral and religious conventions.

You're right, I am clueless, you are far superior and your point of view is the only one that counts. Feel better now?

My intention wasn't to "feel better." I glad you took the time to respond though.

 

[Calabrio]

Republican = poop-head

I'd personally rather have an ass made of candy than a head made of poop.

:give

That's really "deep."

What about the activists on the far left, those guys are completely full of Sh :q t.

 

[barry2952]

I could not agree with you more. The extremists are bad for everyone. The far Left and the far Right are no better than the Taliban.

I don't see a lot of far Left posting on this site. Most seem to be centrist or far Right.

I believe what you are seeing here is an extreme distaste, not for Republicans or Conservatives but for GWB himself. I still respect the office of President but I have lost all respect for BuSh.

I have never voted for a Democrat in my life up until the last election. I admire much about the Republican platform except the subjects of abortion and gay rights. Republicans need to stay out of our bedrooms.

 

[MonsterMark]

The far Left and the far Right are no better than the Taliban.

I don't see a lot of far Left posting on this site. Most seem to be centrist or far Right.

"Most seem to be centrist or far Right"..."and the far Right are no better than the Taliban."

Sorry FreeFaller and Kbob and Fossten and Vitas and Cubster and Calabrio (sorry to leave out some of you) but it is obvious that Barry thinks very little of us and has strongly implied we are nothing more than a bunch of towel wearing hate mongers seeking to kill him and his family.

This takes the cake. Congrats Barry. You've reached the pinnacle.

 

[MarkOfDeath]

"I have never voted for a Democrat in my life up until the last election. I admire much about the Republican platform except the subjects of abortion and gay rights. Republicans need to stay out of our bedrooms."

I dont think any of the RIGHT cares if homosexuals have sex, if you call it that, I think its more about marrige and how it makes a joke of it.

Abortions Im againt it. sure the rape victim card gets pulled ALOT but thats just tuff luck, get the mourning after pill.

 

[RB3]

I don't see a lot of far Left posting on this site.

Then you haven't been reading quite a few of the posts, including many of your own.

 

[Vitas]

"Most seem to be centrist or far Right"..."and the far Right are no better than the Taliban."

... but it is obvious that Barry thinks very little of us and has strongly implied we are nothing more than a bunch of towel wearing hate mongers seeking to kill him and his family.

This takes the cake. Congrats Barry. You've reached the pinnacle.

Barry is one disenfranchised dude. Why? I don’t know. Perhaps he can wrap up his thought process for us in one post. Why are you so angry with Bush, Barry? Is it the Economy? Is it Iraq? Is it that so many people respect him? You tell us.

 

[TheDude]

"Most seem to be centrist or far Right"..."and the far Right are no better than the Taliban."

Sorry FreeFaller and Kbob and Fossten and Vitas and Cubster and Calabrio (sorry to leave out some of you) but it is obvious that Barry thinks very little of us and has strongly implied we are nothing more than a bunch of towel wearing hate mongers seeking to kill him and his family.

This takes the cake. Congrats Barry. You've reached the pinnacle.

Lol, if you're gonna ream someone for saying something, dont rewrite what they say so it suits your arguement. But then again, thats the extreme far right way fo doing things. They will make their point by any means, doesnt matter if its ethical not.

 

[TheDude]

[]

"we are nothing more than a bunch of towel wearing hate mongers seeking to kill him and his family."

Ya, all terroist are as you say 'Towel Wearing Hate Mongers'.... Man, you are hilarious. If you can't see the hypocrisy in your own 'hate mongering' statement I feel sorry for you. Also, it's not a towel, its a head wrap, it's part of the Islamic religion.

 

[TheDude]

"I have never voted for a Democrat in my life up until the last election. I admire much about the Republican platform except the subjects of abortion and gay rights. Republicans need to stay out of our bedrooms."

I dont think any of the RIGHT cares if homosexuals have sex, if you call it that, I think its more about marrige and how it makes a joke of it.

Abortions Im againt it. sure the rape victim card gets pulled ALOT but thats just tuff luck, get the mourning after pill.

WTF? Are you serious? 'Thats just tough luck, get the morning after pill'.

Also, wouldnt that be an abortion anyways?

Grow a little compassion man. But I am glad you at least had some sense not to vote for Bush again.

 

[MonsterMark]

[]

"we are nothing more than a bunch of towel wearing hate mongers seeking to kill him and his family."

Ya, all terroist are as you say 'Towel Wearing Hate Mongers'.... Man, you are hilarious. If you can't see the hypocrisy in your own 'hate mongering' statement I feel sorry for you. Also, it's not a towel, its a head wrap, it's part of the Islamic religion.

Whatever. They wear head wraps. Don't shave their face. Never heard of deodorant. Beat their women. Smoke to excess. Cultivate heroin. Whatever.

Talibanis wear towels and live in a sand box. imho.

I love the left. They hate this country and all it stands for. They would rather side with evil so long as the US looks bad.

 

[TheDude]

Whatever. They wear head wraps. Don't shave their face. Never heard of deodorant. Beat their women. Smoke to excess. Cultivate heroin. Whatever.

Talibanis wear towels and live in a sand box. imho.

I love the left. They hate this country and all it stands for. They would rather side with evil so long as the US looks bad.

The left stands for freedom and equality to all Americans. What is anti USA about that?

Also, I really liked your racist comments, especially coming from the mouth of a devote Christian. That made my Monday.

I didnt really understand the 'smoke to excess' one though, could you clarify? I'm under the impression that America produces the most cigarettes/tabacco products of any country.

 

[barry2952]

Actually Brian, heroin is a chemical conversion from the sap of poppy plants. That is now Afghanastan's leading export, right under our noses. Talk about having the ability to actually make an impact on drug trafficking and blowing it.

The BuSh administration is conveniently looking the other way while they rebuild their economy by shipping their product to the rest or the world. Their President does nothing to stop it because he does not want a revolt. We destroyed whatever infrastructure they had so everyone resorted to growing a cash crop that gives them a means to exist while we condone the poisoning of the world.

Some "War on Drugs". "Worst President Ever"!!!!!

 

[TheDude]

Actually Brian, heroin is a chemical conversion from the sap of poppy plants. That is now Afghanastan's leading export, right under our noses. Talk about having the ability to actually make an impact on drug trafficking and blowing it.

The BuSh administration is conveniently looking the other way while they rebuild their economy by shipping their product to the rest or the world. Their President does nothing to stop it because he does not want a revolt. We destroyed whatever infrastructure they had so everyone resorted to growing a cash crop that gives them a means to exist while we condone the poisoning of the world.

Some "War on Drugs". "Worst President Ever"!!!!!

Amen, that was beautifully put.