Your Biggest Bug About Your LS

[joegr]

... Insurance quotes were as follows: for the WRX and Speed3, over 2500 a year for full coverage (a necessity since I didn't out right purchase it, I financed it) the Hyundai was 1500. ...

So the argument is that Lincoln was concerned about the insurance costs so they depowered the LS, but Mazda and Subaru where not concerned? I guess those models were failures?
No, I'm still thinking that insurance costs weren't a factor for Lincoln with the LS. It was never going to be a mass market car. I see lots of complaints on here about how they should have put a bigger engine in or added a turbo. You do know that those things would have increased the cost of the car? A lot of people on here didn't buy their LS until it was selling used at a low price. Even then, several only bought the V6 version, and several only the lower powered gen I (V6 or V8).

 

[jjcool00]

So the argument is that Lincoln was concerned about the insurance costs so they depowered the LS, but Mazda and Subaru where not concerned? I guess those models were failures?
No, I'm still thinking that insurance costs weren't a factor for Lincoln with the LS. It was never going to be a mass market car. I see lots of complaints on here about how they should have put a bigger engine in or added a turbo. You do know that those things would have increased the cost of the car? A lot of people on here didn't buy their LS until it was selling used at a low price. Even then, several only bought the V6 version, and several only the lower powered gen I (V6 or V8).

I'm not saying any of that at all. What I am saying is this: buyers will take into account insurance costs prior to purchasing a vehicle. I'm not sure if Lincoln themselves or any car company truly cares about insurance costs, but consumers definitely do.

 

[fatboy501]

So the argument is that Lincoln was concerned about the insurance costs so they depowered the LS, but Mazda and Subaru where not concerned? I guess those models were failures?
No, I'm still thinking that insurance costs weren't a factor for Lincoln with the LS. It was never going to be a mass market car. I see lots of complaints on here about how they should have put a bigger engine in or added a turbo. You do know that those things would have increased the cost of the car? A lot of people on here didn't buy their LS until it was selling used at a low price. Even then, several only bought the V6 version, and several only the lower powered gen I (V6 or V8).

Why pay the money for a Gen 2 over a Gen 1 simply from a power perspective? Paying potentially thousands more for roughly 30 to 35 horses? LMAO! Granted, there are other advantages, but that is not at all worth the cost, depending on the prices in your area. I wouldve paid 2k more for an 05 that wasnt as clean as my 2000, with 5k less miles. No thanks jeff. Also, do you think the LS would be this obscure were it more powerful? I don't. I think it'd be much more popular than it is now even if it had a sohc 4.6. As I once saw another member say.... its a cheap car with $40k car problems.

 

[Upstairs Chris]

...Why pay the money for a Gen 2 over a Gen 1 simply from a power perspective? Paying potentially thousands more for roughly 30 to 35 horses? LMAO!...

I've been on this forum for a couple years now and it really is night and day in terms of reliability with the Gen I vs Gen II, that is worth the price difference alone. I see you only have 27 post's so maybe it isn't apparent yet. Go back and start looking at all the first time posters having problems with their LS, the majority of the time it is a Gen I. Yes that could very well be because they are older and have more miles but some of the things that go wrong with them are big pains in the ass and are isolated for first generation only, like timing chain tensioniers. Let alone those hideous chrome strips that sit on top of the front bumper, I am not trying to be offensive, but those are awful. If I had a gen I, removing those would have been my first change. Also the front clip as a whole is much more modern and forgiving in terms of looking outdated on the Gen II.

Also I can't tell if you're promoting the idea of a 4.6 LS or not, but that is silly. Other than ease and cheapness of repairs, which I'll admit, would be nice, this engine certainly wouldn't have been an upgrade to the jag 3.9. They make about the same power, with the 4.6 getting the biggest advantage in the 2005 Mustang version but only 15hp worth, all the other versions are less than that. Honestly I have driven that engine ad nasueam and it is nothing to write home about. Makes more noise than speed, and I have enough plug/coil related issues already I don't need to start blowing them out of the head. Also, this engine would be heavier, messing with the 50/50 weight distribution of the LS and it would be less efficient. I get 26.5 on the interstate if I am easy and it is by no means flat over here. That is out of this world for a 4.6.

Now I know you have a Gen I and I don't expect you to openly belittle it but seriously on something that is periodically refreshed, updated, and refined like a vehicle who would purposely chose the earliest variant with the least power and more reliability issues. I understand you paid less money for it, which is a solid point, but you simply can't compare the two and declare the Gen I the winner based on the prices on LS's that you saw. There is a reason they are cheaper.

 

[fatboy501]

I agree... which is why I stated there are other advantages. However, from a perspective of power alone, its a waste of money, which is exactly what you quoted. Also, yes, I am an LS noob. Doesn't take an expert to know that I like the car but consider it slow. The LS is doomed to be either a niche enthusiast car or a hood-mobile with big rims and systems. I'd like to be proven wrong, but I doubt that I will.

Also, thinking that a 4.6 LS wouldn't be more popular is laughable in my opinion. I'm betting the 4.6 aftermarket alone would help the LS stay relevant. Back when they were made? Maybe not.... but we are in the present, where these vehicles are now becoming obscure because of a lack of aftermarket. Beautiful car, but that's about it. Personally, I like the chrome... it's all a matter of opinion. What isn't opinion is that the LS aftermarket blows because we don't have a 4.6.

Edit: who said Gen 1 was a winner? I said in MY situation.... all of this when you quoted that I said purely from a power standpoint. Lol. Hilarious.

 

[jjcool00]

No one can make you love or appreciate the things you have, but you. I love the car because I wanted it for a long time, and as soon as I was able to afford a "nice" car I bought it. Now I have it and I make every effort possible to make sure it's 100% running at all time with absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's a shame you feel that way about your car but hey to each their own!

 

[fatboy501]

Oh I love it to death, and appreciate it. I just recognize it for what it is. It's an aging, good looking, well handling and slow vehicle. I do wish it came with a 4.6 though, I love those exhaust notes. Loving a car and being delusional are two different things.

 

[jjcool00]

Well speed is relative right? From 2000-2006 a car that reached 0-60 in around 6 seconds wasn't slow. Now? Yes. Almost every car company has a vehicle that will reach those times for around $25,000-$30,000. Honda has the Civic Si, Hyundai has a couple with the 2.0t platform, Ford has the Focus, Mazda has the speed3, etc. etc. etc. It's just the way the consumer market is changing. In 10 years it might be that 0-60 in 5.5 is slow, or whatever. But for the time, the LS was quick and still is. It may not be a G8 or a CTS-V, but 6 seconds isn't bad at all.

 

[fatboy501]

Well speed is relative right? From 2000-2006 a car that reached 0-60 in around 6 seconds wasn't slow. Now? Yes. Almost every car company has a vehicle that will reach those times for around $25,000-$30,000. Honda has the Civic Si, Hyundai has a couple with the 2.0t platform, Ford has the Focus, Mazda has the speed3, etc. etc. etc. It's just the way the consumer market is changing. In 10 years it might be that 0-60 in 5.5 is slow, or whatever. But for the time, the LS was quick and still is. It may not be a G8 or a CTS-V, but 6 seconds isn't bad at all.

Agreed... not bad for its time. I can agree with quick to an extent... it's definitely fun to drive though. Hands down the best handling vehicle I've ever owned.

 

[Upstairs Chris]

Oh I love it to death, and appreciate it. I just recognize it for what it is. It's an aging, good looking, well handling and slow vehicle. I do wish it came with a 4.6 though, I love those exhaust notes. Loving a car and being delusional are two different things.

Delusional indeed.

Someone apparently thinks the 4.6 was some monster of an engine. When it made trivial differences in power than the 3.9, while the 3.9 is more efficient. The car was plenty fast when it came out. Mine is 7 years old, your's is even older, have to have realistic expectations. For ****s and giggles, if they had put the 4.6 in the car for the second gen, I'd have 15 more horsepower and less fuel economy. I've accomplished that with intake, exhaust, and tune, and kept my economy. I can best my friends 2012 civic coupe Si also. Not that any of this matters because it is a 4 door luxury car with just a hint of sport. However, since you constantly bring up the lust for the 4.6, the 05 mustang with the 4.6 is marginally faster with 2 less doors.

If you think the grass is greener then please, show yourself the door. I've never seen anyone get one here and talk about how much more amazing this car would be with the 4.6 like you have. Probably because in terms of power, they are very similar.

The 4th generation Ford Mustang GT that ran from 94-04 (During the launch of the LS) only ever achieved a max of 260hp
The 5th generation Ford Mustang GT that ran from 05-10 (Well after the LS design, and near its end of life) still only made 300hp
The 2nd generation Lincoln LS that ran from 03-06 made 280hp, and it's not a muscle car.

Also, just for funsies, the Crown Victoria, you know, a 4 door with the 4.6 takes approximately a platonic year to hit 60.

When the LS launched in 00 it won motor trend car of the year, and even the 1st gen dusted everything in quickness.

You're issue is clearly with the 7 years (or more) of technological advancement that has superseded these cars and not with the car themselves.

Please, I beg you, put a 4.6 in yours so I can watch your new found obliterating speed and power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mustang#Fifth_generation_.282005.E2.80.932014.29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_LS

 

[fatboy501]

LMAO, 4.6 sohc a beast? No. 4.6 SOHC have an available aftermarket while the 3.9 has none? Yes. I said a Lincoln LS would be more relevant today with a 4.6... the fact that, stock for stock, it's not much better than the anemic 3.9 doesn't mean that the extensive aftermarket for the engine wouldn't benefit the LS. Thusly, your stats are useless, as I never labelled any of the vehicles you quoted as being superior to the LS. Lol, good try. Also, no, I will not swap mine, as I appreciate the car for what it is: a good looking vehicle. It's not a performance vehicle. I have no issue with the car... I just think its slow, and good-looking. Think of yours what you will... you're entitled to your opinion as I'm entitled to mine.

 

[Upstairs Chris]

Right.

 

[LSter]

I'm still waiting on somebody to try to shoehorn a 5.0 coyote into their LS...

 

[jjcool00]

The size of the engine does not dictate the performance of the engine. You could drop the 4.6 Lincoln town car engine into it which has 239 HP (less than your LS V8).

 

[fatboy501]

The size of the engine does not dictate the performance of the engine. You could drop the 4.6 Lincoln town car engine into it which has 239 HP (less than your LS V8).

Didn't say it did. I said the LS would benefit from having a 4.6 due to the extensive aftermarket. Prove me wrong. Goodness people, not like I'm saying the car is a piece of crap... just that the engine doesn't excite me. Why is that such an issue with you all?

 

[jjcool00]

Not an issue at all... I couldn't care less, honestly. I'm just arguing to argue at this point. But the reason for the larger aftermarket is the larger production numbers. The 3.9 - used in T bird and LS, the 4.6 - used in almost every ford, mercury v8. This also doesn't mean that the aftermarket is cheap or going to get you the results you desire. BTW, you CAN mod the 3.9, it's just expensive.

 

[fatboy501]

Not an issue at all... I couldn't care less, honestly. I'm just arguing to argue at this point. But the reason for the larger aftermarket is the larger production numbers. The 3.9 - used in T bird and LS, the 4.6 - used in almost every ford, mercury v8. This also doesn't mean that the aftermarket is cheap or going to get you the results you desire. BTW, you CAN mod the 3.9, it's just expensive.

Agreed. I will bite the bullet and do the intake and exhaust. I'm sure as hell not cheaping out on the car. I also don't agree that a sohc 4.6 being there would satisfy me... then I'd be bitching about not having something bigger.

 

[jjcool00]

Common human nature to never be satisfied! Always desiring something bigger and better... it's what makes us innovative but greedy at the same time

 

[firemanls]

My gripes:
- The Valve cover gaskets. the day i made an appointment with the mechanic for my alternator i was replacing spark plugs and my last coil well had oil in it. So he said i would have to add another 600 bucks just in labor for the gaskets.
- And the coils. Yes when both are fixable but those are my only gripes. Women love the car, and i love the women so its a win win

 

[Telco]

I don't know about your circle, but no one I know, including me, makes a call to the insurance company until AFTER the car us purchased.

Then your circle is going to be made up of the people who find out they can't afford their car after buying it, if they don't check on something that can be as much as a car payment in itself. Doesn't matter if it's never happened before, it'll happen eventually unless your circle of friends is rich enough to not care. And, if they are rich enough to not care, they won't be rich for long. I don't know of too many people who are rich who got that way without knowing where every penny is going.

And you got your automotive engineering from??????? I have had the benefit of talking to the engineers who were actually involved in the design; and the restrictions of gummint safety regulations. We're a simple enlargement possible, the Mustang would be riding on the DEW98 and the LS may very well still live.

Never said I had an engineering degree, but then I've never had to wait for someone to tell me how to do something. I'm that guy who goes out and does it, and from time to time it's been my job to take what an engineer gave me and figure out why it didn't work correctly THEN figure out a way to make it work. I'm also that guy who designs and builds stuff on his own when he can't find it already done. Since you seem to feel that an opinion means nothing without a degree, I would ask what degree YOU have that gives you the right to disagree with me on anything. If you don't have a mechanical engineering degree, what certified automotive training do you have?

An engineering degree does not make one somehow smarter than everyone else, nor does it mean that the engineer's opinion is automatically better than everyone else's. Remember, an engineer also came up with the Pinto, the Ford 6.0L diesel, the 1990 - 2001 Explorer Sport and the Fiat anything. It's nice that you've spoken to the ones who designed the LS, but evidently you didn't ask them the hard questions like why did the engineers spec out plastic in the cooling system that is not suitable for use in a cooling system. And hey, do me a favor next time you talk to them and ask them why they now insist on building gigantic center consoles that extend where the driver's knee needs to go. Not everybody is 5 foot 6.

Further, simple enlargements are possible. In fact, the current trend in automotive engineering is to design platforms that can be easily changed to accommodate different sized cars. For someone who is so enamored of automotive engineers, you aren't paying too much attention to what they are doing. The more cars they can build off a single platform, the cheaper it is to build the cars. You see, I do pay attention to what the engineers are doing, I just don't assume they can do no wrong. And, I'm reminded of how they can do stupid crap every time I have to change the oil on my daughter's 2003 Malibu, and I have to prep the area to keep the oil filter from spilling oil into a wiring harness that runs directly under the angle-mounted filter.

 

[Telco]

So the argument is that Lincoln was concerned about the insurance costs so they depowered the LS, but Mazda and Subaru where not concerned?

It was my thinking that this might be why they went with a smaller, slower engine in the LS. I do know that the car makers have had to work with the insurance companies back in the 1960s to 1970s, so I assumed it continued on. I would also think that the car maker would have to be concerned about expected insurance costs for their products, since their customers are going to be concerned about it. It would do the car maker no good to build a car that nobody could afford to insure, because nobody would then buy the car. As I said, I could be wrong on this, but I just can't see a business not caring if their customers can afford their products when that business has a lot of competition for customers. Sure, Microsoft might not care (and Vista (yet another engineering marvel) proved this) but Ford has a lot of competitors and they have to have some care about whether their customers can afford the insurance they have to have on the cars.

 

[qzyl2m]

Your right Telco, I always call my insurance to get a quote before I buy, its takes 5 minutes. I`am sure not going to pay $1000 per year more for a car that I may or may not like. That $1000 makes quite a difference in my decision if I purchase it or not.

 

[Upstairs Chris]

Oh boy

 

[Telco]

Oh boy

No worries, I was just explaining my thinking to Joe, not going off on him. Besides, I could be wrong about insurance costs being a concern to the OEM even though it's logical that they would consider insurance costs when designing a car.

 

[pektel]

What's all this horse power horse-hockey coming from?

Gentlemen, please don't tell me I'm the first to inform you that HP is really only good for comparing dyno sheets. torque, converter stall speed, gear ratios, and power band rpm range are a much better set of numbers to compare.