You seem like you know a lot about the electrical work and a lot about everything, I on the other hand just know power, and no power. The main red wire in the fan I ran a 8ga wire from it to a maxi 80A fuse holder, then ran it to the starter. The black wire got ran by two 8ga wires, and just got grounded. The black and white wire is just floating. The green wire is ran to fuse #12 by yet another 8ga wire. One thing I do know I have to upgrade all my wires to 6ga cause they get hot
A Guide to Electric Fan Retrofit / Swap
- Thread starter oddball
- Start date
You seem like you know a lot about the electrical work and a lot about everything, I on the other hand just know power, and no power. The main red wire in the fan I ran a 8ga wire from it to a maxi 80A fuse holder, then ran it to the starter. The black wire got ran by two 8ga wires, and just got grounded. The black and white wire is just floating. The green wire is ran to fuse #12 by yet another 8ga wire. One thing I do know I have to upgrade all my wires to 6ga cause they get hot
oddball
Dedicated LVC Member
The green wire can be 18ga to 22ga.
Hey I just got to changing the wires, and they seem pretty stern. But I came across a problem, when I first did this, I didn't have a/c due to me swapping out engines, so I decided to recharge my air (got pretty hot driving around in this Florida heat) and when I did that and drove the car, the radio keeps glitching, the car began to drive really sluggish, the dash keeps telling me to check advancetec,charging system, and the temp gets to the second to top bar. I drove with the air off, but same results. Think it might be to much power being taken from the car for the fan?
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
Maybe, but probably your alternator is on its way out.
Noooooooo I'm tryin to avoid that, not really a good time for me to spending all this money. But I suppose I must change it eventually
I was wondering the reasoning for the 6ga wire. 10ga is rated at 50 amps up to 6ft. The fact that the factory harnesses for these fans comes with 10ga should be an indicator of what is needed.The "amperage spike" shouldn't create too much of an issue since we're talking milliseconds of the 80-100amps at start up that some claim to see with the Taurus 3.8 fans. I doubt the Gen II fan puts out that much. I could be wrong with this, but 6ga and 4ga seems like overkill.
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
Going by normal design guide lines, 10ga is only good for 20A. 6ga is good for 40A, which should be enough for the fan.
I got my information from generic charts online. I know there are many factors that contribute to the amperage rating for wire. You happen have a good source for the information to look up? Im always looking to expand my minimal knowledge base and Im sure it would help answer questions for others regarding what they need to run their electronics.
My set up is a late model thunderbird fan that is similiar to a MarkVIII running off a flex a lite variable speed controller that came with 10ga and they rate their unit up to 45 amps. Another reason why I ask for any information
My set up is a late model thunderbird fan that is similiar to a MarkVIII running off a flex a lite variable speed controller that came with 10ga and they rate their unit up to 45 amps. Another reason why I ask for any information
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
Here is one chart. It is conservative, but so am I.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/amps-wire-gauge-d_730.html
Keep in mind that wiring in a car in the engine compartment is already pretty hot just from the heat of the engine.
I've noticed that American car makers (like Ford) tend to use a higher gauge wire for the same current than do European and Asian car makers. Since those cars don't burst into flames any more often than the domestic ones, probably they are using big enough wire.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/amps-wire-gauge-d_730.html
Keep in mind that wiring in a car in the engine compartment is already pretty hot just from the heat of the engine.
I've noticed that American car makers (like Ford) tend to use a higher gauge wire for the same current than do European and Asian car makers. Since those cars don't burst into flames any more often than the domestic ones, probably they are using big enough wire.
oddball
Dedicated LVC Member
The stock '03 harness has 6ga. That's what was on both the fans from the junkyard and what I tied into it. No idea if the 05/06 fans went smaller, but I'd be really surprised if it's 10ga. 50 amps over 10ga is really aggressive IMO.
As stated, stable current pull at full speed was measured at 43A with the fan installed in the engine bay. Not worried about the startup spike - that's more a concern for fuse sizing and connection quality. Wire size is more impacted by stable load. (to an extent, at least)
No idea why the flex-a-lite controller has such small wires. Well, most aftermarket fans pull far less current - more like 15A to 20A - than the OEM fans, so the controllers don't need to be all that strong. They also don't describe the control methodology. The flex-a-lite page says 45A, but the Summit listing for it says 35A. Sounds like their current rating is optimistic. Never seen that before.
PRICE717
LVC Member
Plz help
ok so i finally found a post to post to that was recent and might get some love. i have an 01 ls v8 3 months ago really hot day get car home after blaring ac and hydro fan degas overflowed. refilled car set for day no probs til yest. same prob except this time now my temp raised slightly between 1/2 (normal) and 3/4 and fan noise got very loud. looking into just replacing fan with electric is it possible to just run a connecting hose from one line to another to just keep the fluid cycling thru pump after replacing fan.... i have checked oil free of rad fluid, overflow is full and looks and smells clean. havent really had to let temp get crazy high nor do i want to if possible any ideas guys. front of rad is slightly covered in debris ie dirt bugs lil leaves etc not enought to seem to restrict airflow. however just to be on safe side will be cleaning in am. also ran this car up and down the mountains day before not even a single prob ran it less "aggressive" today and all this bs PLZZZ HELP
ok so i finally found a post to post to that was recent and might get some love. i have an 01 ls v8 3 months ago really hot day get car home after blaring ac and hydro fan degas overflowed. refilled car set for day no probs til yest. same prob except this time now my temp raised slightly between 1/2 (normal) and 3/4 and fan noise got very loud. looking into just replacing fan with electric is it possible to just run a connecting hose from one line to another to just keep the fluid cycling thru pump after replacing fan.... i have checked oil free of rad fluid, overflow is full and looks and smells clean. havent really had to let temp get crazy high nor do i want to if possible any ideas guys. front of rad is slightly covered in debris ie dirt bugs lil leaves etc not enought to seem to restrict airflow. however just to be on safe side will be cleaning in am. also ran this car up and down the mountains day before not even a single prob ran it less "aggressive" today and all this bs PLZZZ HELP
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
Please stay with your other post on this.
http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=74259
There is no such thing as a "hydro fan degas." You are confusing the hydraulic fan reservoir with the degas bottle. These are two very different things. The degas bottle is by the windshield. The hydraulic reservoir is at the front of the car. You will get the wrong advice by calling things the wrong thing. (If you don't accept my advice from your other post, that's fine. Just try to be clear about what your problem is.)
PRICE717
LVC Member
sry joe did not see ur advice in other thread any advice is appreciated srry 4 crossposting as well as using wrong terms.... still a newbie lol
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
No problem.
dudeitsahonda
New LVC Member
hello i'm in a bit of a predicament and if someone could help me out i would greatly appreciate it.
car 01 ls
switched out to electric fan
--burnt through two weak universal fans
--recently bought a vdo lincoln ls electric fan replacement for 03 and it stopped working as well(but got money back)
i believe it is because it is running at full speed (activated by a cheap thermostat)
as this is not my car and i am tired of working on it. I am ordering a motorcraft replacement electric fan for the LS and do not want to fry this one as well.
as i am not capable of putting a computer board together as the OP shows
IS there a way to run the fan at 50% so that when i activate the fans computer it will only run 50% instead of 100%.
if there are other new options please chime in
car 01 ls
switched out to electric fan
--burnt through two weak universal fans
--recently bought a vdo lincoln ls electric fan replacement for 03 and it stopped working as well(but got money back)
i believe it is because it is running at full speed (activated by a cheap thermostat)
as this is not my car and i am tired of working on it. I am ordering a motorcraft replacement electric fan for the LS and do not want to fry this one as well.
as i am not capable of putting a computer board together as the OP shows
IS there a way to run the fan at 50% so that when i activate the fans computer it will only run 50% instead of 100%.
if there are other new options please chime in
hite337
Hite Performance
A Flex-A-Lite 183 may be cheaper than the 03 fan and use alot less power. Then you can just wire it to come on with the ignition. Just be sure you use the correct size wire. If the wire is too small then you will fry the fan motor. I wonder if this was the cause of the other fans going bad. Also, the cheap bullet style temp sensor that go in the radiator fins dont work very well. My Flex-A-Lite fan on my old '00 worked for 3 or 4 years before I sold the car and the one in my '02 is still going strong after 1-2 years
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
If you don't mind spending the money you can use a Delta controller to run the fans. It'll run the fans at whatever speed is necessary to maintain a constant temp, and can either use a radiator probe or a bolt in the head probe for temperature measurement. I've used them in the past with great success. In addition, use at least 10ga wire if not larger for this as efans can draw quite a few amps. Due to the power draw over distance, it would be preferable to use larger diameter wire than the fan is made with as it'll reduce resistance over distance.
Over in the S10 V8 world they are huge fans of using the older Taurus SHO electric fans, or the mid 90s Dodge Intrepid electric fans. These fans are strong enough to keep a large cube V8 cool in Florida inside a small engine bay, so these fans should be plenty strong enough to keep a 3.0 V6 or a 3.9 V8 cool inside a larger engine bay. And, these fans are available in most salvage yards for around 50 bucks for the set.
When installing the fans, make sure there is a good seal between the radiator and the fan shroud so as to force the fan to draw all its air through the radiator. Othewise it'll draw most of its air in from the side and not through the radiator.
Over in the S10 V8 world they are huge fans of using the older Taurus SHO electric fans, or the mid 90s Dodge Intrepid electric fans. These fans are strong enough to keep a large cube V8 cool in Florida inside a small engine bay, so these fans should be plenty strong enough to keep a 3.0 V6 or a 3.9 V8 cool inside a larger engine bay. And, these fans are available in most salvage yards for around 50 bucks for the set.
When installing the fans, make sure there is a good seal between the radiator and the fan shroud so as to force the fan to draw all its air through the radiator. Othewise it'll draw most of its air in from the side and not through the radiator.
hite337
Hite Performance
In my experience they are not very acurate. The ambient air can cause the measurements to be off sometimes depending on the location it is installed.
Also I read somewhere the Taurus fan, although a great fan, use alot of amps. Somewhere in the 35-45 amp range IIRC. The Fle-A-Lite I use draws 18 amps max. If we can get a HO alternator working in the cars then the Taurus fan will be one of the best ways to go.
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
I agree, but they are better than nothing and are far easier to install than an in-block sensor for which you may have no convenient hole to install the probe. The ambient air temp problem can be mitigated by putting a small bit of silicone in the front of the radiator grid where the sensor is to keep air from passing through the fins right where the probe goes. You only have to seal up the specific fin it's plugged into, and the two adjascent fins, and only between the two tubes the sensor goes between. And, the Delta measures right at the radiator outlet, not the inlet, so it'll adjust the fans to keep the temp leaving the radiator stable.
hite337
Hite Performance
Silicone...I never thought of that. Good idea Telco
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
Forgot to add, just smear it in the front of the radiator where the sensor goes, because all you're wanting to do is block airflow through that little bit of the radiator. You could also take a small piece of heat resistant rubber and glue to the front of the radiator where the sensor goes. Wait until it dries before putting the sensor itself in. If you fill the area with silicone then stick the sensor in, you'll insulate the sensor away from the rad and then will probably pull the sensor apart if you ever have to remove it.
dudeitsahonda
New LVC Member
how much did you get your flex-183 for? on amazon it shows that its more expensive then a motorcraft fan for the LS. the fan you have been running for years is the flex with it on all the time(with the ignition on)?
i ran the previous fan with 10 ga wire and it just up and stop working
i've actually hear and used a taurus fan on a car before and it works well but im not able to find one local anymore and would like to use a new fan as this is not my car.
ive found that the temp probe i use pretty much keeps the fan running once it starts and doesnt stop till the car is off.
the electric fan for the LS ive read draws about the same amount of amps at full speed.
dudeitsahonda
New LVC Member
well i went ahead and ordered a flex a lite 183. i really hope this will be the last fan i put in this car
hite337
Hite Performance
You will be happy with the Flex-A-lite. I have used them in 5 LS 's and all are still going strong