Bad Head Gasket?

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amorgan2017

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Hey guys, driving an 05 LS V8 and it seems my car is going down on me. I'll start with the story making it short,, my car overheated randomly driving to town..I only made it about 3 miles then it made a chime noise and i noticed it was really hot..never happened before. So I shut it off right away and let it cool..turned it back on and drove it back home and it went it's back to the middle temp range since. I thought that was good but now I have no heat. So I did the bleeding procedure tonight step by step...maybe got some air out? Not for sure but anyway I did get some luke warm heat at 90 degrees full fan. But once I did the 75 degree 2 minute idle then shut off to cool down and fill to proper level, I started it back up and it's as cold as ever. So I drove to town with no heat bought some more anti-freeze and drove back home. I get out pop the hood and my degas bottle is boiling! So I think bad head gasket because that's a big symptom. I checked the oil cap its clean and the stick it looks good not milkshake color. So I also researched on the DCCV but it looks like half the vents are warm and half are cold with that issue? All my vents are cold though..I grabbed the coolant lines. One is cold 2 are warmish but not hot. I replaced the 10A fuse under the dash for the DCCV but no difference. So I am stumped, praying it's a thermostat...I know it doesn't sound like one but I have one on the way anyways.

I'm asking this because the forums I've read on here, everyone says a head gasket is uncommon to be bad or never heard of it being bad. And that it's most likely another problem but what am I missing? It also has no leaks I forgot to mention. No heat, boiling antifreeze in the degas bottle..and all sorts of weird noises when I turned it off. Maybe it's got a lot of air in it? But something must be bad to let air in or no?

Thanks for the help...and Happy New Year!
 
Wow, no body listens. It's posted here over and over. Cracks in the plastic. It all must be replaced.
 
well if you read everything on the forum you would know 10/10 you have a bad degas/plastic cooling components or you just need to bleed properly. No one on here will be telling you its a head gasket. the search button is your friend

happy new years
 
MysticMac said:
well if you read everything on the forum you would know 10/10 you have a bad degas/plastic cooling components or you just need to bleed properly. No one on here will be telling you its a head gasket. the search button is your friend

happy new years
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply mystic..wouldn't I have a leak if I had cracked plastic? The degas bottle was replaced when I got the car so that shouldn't be the issue. I checked the t pipe before I posted and it doesn't leak. You'd think it must be a pretty big crack if the heater doesn't work at all. So joeger I should just goose chase it and replace all the plastic? Or do we have a way to narrow it down since it's not leaking. ..No I can't afford to replace every piece of plastic even if they may go bad soon.
 
One more time.
Read the threads.
Everyone says they don't have a leak, but later finds out that they do. You probably won't find liquid coolant. You'll find white or orange power like stains. The bigger problem than coolant leaking out, is air leaking in.
Yes, you could find exactly which of the plastic parts is leaking. If you are really lucky, you won't break any of the other parts replacing it. If you are still lucky, it will be over a week before the next one fails. They are all made out of the same stuff, they are all going to fail at close to the same time.

This is what you need to do: http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/forum/showthread.php?91092-GenII-LS8-Cooling-System-Overhaul

If you can't afford to do this, then you'll have to find another car. It'll cost a lot more to do it one piece at a time every week. Even more so if you have to get it towed home.
 
I drove my 01 V8 Sport during the end of a winter for about a whole month and half, when I first got it, loosing heat, no heat at idle, passenger vent heat only, topping up coolant in degas bottle, rebleeding before it started pissing coolant out past the driver side wheel.

Micro-cracks. They open and close ever so lightly to allow air in and coolant out during overheats.

Yes, it needs to be and remain an air tight system correctly bled for it to work as design intended. Any small leak not visible, will allow air in and it start to malfunction.

At that age, the plastics are in poor shape and need to be replaced. At such a point many have discovered that when you go to remove the fill cap from the T-Stat housing, it won't come off and when it does, it will or can, break, snap, crumble right apart on ya.

You'll remove hose from the plastic parts and wonder how it held itself together up until now.

Mine wasn't all that bad but it got the whole works replaced.

DCCV, Aux Flow pump, Aluminum T-Stat, outlet pipe, degas bottle and pressure cap, fresh coolant, rebled first go.

Zero issues since rebuild.

It all ages at the same time, replacing one piece here and there, only results in not able to bleed correctly, not able to get all air out anyhow and potentially still overheating or no heat issues.



They are not putting you on when they say to read the threads and that it does require a whole Plastic Coolant system parts Re&Re.

They are not giving you a hard time, it's what it needs and it's nothing new or abnormal. Hundereds even Thousands have been here before you and I and many will follow.

Bite the bullet, DIY, parts aren't all that bad. Somewhere around 800$

GLWR
 
+1^

Some of these leaks can go or undiagnosed or undetected until you park it, and take a walk/sniff around.
 
Ok I read that hole thread and I'm wondering if I can drive it like it is right now for a little while? Did you have and problems when you did this BigRig? I'm not worried about finding the leak I'll just save the money and replace it all. How soon do the degas bottles go bad? I had a new one in May..should I just buy another when I buy it all?

Thanks for the help
 
Do the water pumps fail at 100K miles too? Could I hold off on that..cheapest I found is $135. I'm buying a few things right now just to start a pile of parts to put on.
 
Had the similar thing, no liquid around car, but did smell coolant when running. Seems on the plastic thermostats housing where the on engine fill cap is, that developed a seam crack that opens under the higher pressure-temperature. It evaporates steam and leaves little liquid. Visually confirmed the leaking plastic-seam on that black Tstat housing, right in top while it ran. Would only leak heavy when at full temp & pressure.
Did two things to fix. While cold and partly drained, unpressurized.
1. Used a powder+glue combo called RapidFix(tm) on the plastic cracks after cleaning with denatured-alcohol several times. Let it sit and fully harden degas for a few hours. Poured on glue, then powder, then glue in layers to build up a large patch about 1/8" thick and 4x dia. of crack extent. (Like a tube patch idea.)
2. Used a coolant leak additive to the fluid that had a good reputation and technically said to work quickly. Put it in, at the engine fill cap, and in the side canister. Ran to full temp and observed no leak at plastic housing. Ran for ~1hr more at idle hot-day. Cooled and drained the aggressive coolant leak agent out, refilled with new coolant and added a bottle of K-Seal(tm). This can help to prevent head gasket leaks. I run it in all my cars.

So get your car hot, open the hood and follow your nose to the leak. Damn bad plastic injection molded process junk parts.


Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
The water pump seems to be pretty hardy, and you probably do not need to replace yours.
The Motorcraft degas bottle should last six or seven years. If you used the Dorman degas bottle last time, then it has likely failed. Those don't seem to last long at all.
The longer you drive with it like it is, the more stress you put on the engine, radiator, and everything else. I can't predict if this will be a serious problem for you or not.
That e-bay deal looks like the usual price to me. Not a great deal, nor a terrible deal.
 
I tried today to look for the crack by the thermostat housing but it's all pretty clean. I'm leaning towards the degas bottle, not sure if I have a dorman one or not I paid like $180 or $200 for it but I'll get another to be safe. Not sure if the thermostat housing comes with the seals or the plastic connectors..how many total for the thermostat housing area..3 for the main 2 for the connectors? So 5?
 
amorgan2017 said:
... Not sure if the thermostat housing comes with the seals or the plastic connectors..how many total for the thermostat housing area..3 for the main 2 for the connectors? So 5?
Click to expand...

It's all in the link that I posted in this thread, post #5.
 
I think I have everything found that I need except this one.. 8548B" / "4Z-9F814-AA is this part # 3W4Z-9F814-AA ? And also... Hose that runs underneath Intake Manifold (8548B) I can't find that one anywhere but it sounds like I'd definitely want to replace it since I'm removing the upper intake.
 
amorgan2017 said:
Oh never mind 8548B I found that one now. It really runs under the intake? I can't see it in any diagrams
Click to expand...

Yes, but just barely.

It's shown here:
RenderIllustration.ashx2.jpg

RenderIllustration.ashx2.jpg
 
Morgan,

If you are going to do this... you might as well do it "all the way". If one part is failing now,,, many others won't be far behind. I bought either "red box" Motorcraft,,, or "blue box" Ford parts when I did my cooling system rebuild. I replaced any and all plastic parts and hoses I could get my hands on... including the Throttle Body Heater Hose that runs under the intake manifold. Even did the water pump!!! I was at 130K or so when I did this.

Yes... I understand it's alot of cash outlay. $900 in parts is alot to swallow... but if you want many trouble free miles it is worth it. However... I now am looking at a raditor leak at almost 180K... so while I am "in there",,, I'm also gonna replace the DCCV, (dual climate control valve)... and the auxiliary cooling pump. now looking at another $520 to make things right once again. Only thing left is the dual heater cores and heater hoses,,, which i understand don't fail very often, (from what has been said on this forum).

If you want to "piece meal" parts in because of budget... you can do that,,, but keep in mind you will be bleeding the cooiling system every time you open the system up to replace a part. Eventually... the excess cost of engine coolant adds up to the price of another pat you could have replaced while you had things torn apart the first time.
 
Example of how not to do it

I didn't know the recommendation and have replaced coolant parts about one additional one per year since about 100K miles. Now at 160K

1. DeGas Bottle
2. T-stat housing (plastic )
3. DeGas bottle again ( 1 yr ) plus its hoses.
4. DCCV
5. outlet pipe ( plastic ). T-State cap

And obviously I haven't done several others, and won't be surprised if it overheats at any time.

Each time it had multiple overheats. I'm lucky it hasn't warped the heads.
Possibly, the best piece of engineering in the LS is the overheat engine limp mode/shutdown in the PCM software. ;-)

And if you haven't replaced valve cover gaskets, COP's and plugs, transmission solenoid and at least one window regulator, you should budget for those too. :-(
 
04_Sport_LS said:
Morgan,

If you are going to do this... you might as well do it "all the way". If one part is failing now,,, many others won't be far behind. I bought either "red box" Motorcraft,,, or "blue box" Ford parts when I did my cooling system rebuild. I replaced any and all plastic parts and hoses I could get my hands on... including the Throttle Body Heater Hose that runs under the intake manifold. Even did the water pump!!! I was at 130K or so when I did this.

Yes... I understand it's alot of cash outlay. $900 in parts is alot to swallow... but if you want many trouble free miles it is worth it. However... I now am looking at a raditor leak at almost 180K... so while I am "in there",,, I'm also gonna replace the DCCV, (dual climate control valve)... and the auxiliary cooling pump. now looking at another $520 to make things right once again. Only thing left is the dual heater cores and heater hoses,,, which i understand don't fail very often, (from what has been said on this forum).

If you want to "piece meal" parts in because of budget... you can do that,,, but keep in mind you will be bleeding the cooiling system every time you open the system up to replace a part. Eventually... the excess cost of engine coolant adds up to the price of another pat you could have replaced while you had things torn apart the first time.
Click to expand...


Yeah I did just decide to buy everything ( i think) yesterday. I ordered I think 2 or 3 parts from tasca, 1 from fordpartsgiant, and then the thermostat housing from a ford dealership that sold it complete.
I'll look up the throttle body heater hose right now if it goes bad I could buy it since I'll be tearing it apart anyway. I didn't buy the upper radiator hose, DCCV, or auxiliary coolant pump...hoping to get by for now on what I've bought.

Oh I've never done intake gaskets either, found some for $35..what kind of adhesive do you use for them?
 
jim6669jim said:
I didn't know the recommendation and have replaced coolant parts about one additional one per year since about 100K miles. Now at 160K

1. DeGas Bottle
2. T-stat housing (plastic )
3. DeGas bottle again ( 1 yr ) plus its hoses.
4. DCCV
5. outlet pipe ( plastic ). T-State cap

And obviously I haven't done several others, and won't be surprised if it overheats at any time.

Each time it had multiple overheats. I'm lucky it hasn't warped the heads.
Possibly, the best piece of engineering in the LS is the overheat engine limp mode/shutdown in the PCM software. ;-)

And if you haven't replaced valve cover gaskets, COP's and plugs, transmission solenoid and at least one window regulator, you should budget for those too. :-(
Click to expand...

Yeah I'm replacing all that but the DCCV right now. I have a feeling its the Degas bottle again myself but we'll see. When mine overheated it never went into limp mode..and it was way up there the light came on and it beeped so it probably should have.

When my COP's went out it went into limp mode at least. So COP's, plugs, 2 window regulators. Hopefully the valve gaskets and tranny problems hold off until I hit 160K haha. Just rolled it to 100K not long ago so it explains the problems.

Good news is my dads just hit 215K and it's still going strong! Have had it since 130K miles and have only had to replace COP's and plugs.
 
Morgan,

You may want to spring for the upper radiator hose too. It's know for getting a pinhole in the plastic wye. That's the part that started my first round of rebuilding the cooling system. The upper rad hose is only, (rolleyes), another $75b or so.
 
04_Sport_LS said:
Morgan,

You may want to spring for the upper radiator hose too. It's know for getting a pinhole in the plastic wye. That's the part that started my first round of rebuilding the cooling system. The upper rad hose is only, (rolleyes), another $75b or so.
Click to expand...
Ahh can't get away with anything haha. I wish I could at least find why mine leaks. Maybe I have a pinhole too. I figured it's easy to change so why do it if it's not bad. If it's a common issue though I see the need.
 
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