God is Only a Theory

[cammerfe]

Nurse late with the meds again Ken?
Be a good Christian, try and act your age not your shoe size!

What I said was a roundabout way of saying 'You're ignoring what's right in front of you. You descended to an ad hominem personal attack. That's beneath you.

KS

 

[shagdrum]

Double Standard: a rule or principle that is unfairly applied in different ways to different people or groups.

SHOT:

Shaggy, care to talk to me about the faith them little alterboys had when the men of the cloth forced themselves into their young mouths? Where was God then ... faith has it he did fuck all about it at the time. Care to break down the faith them nine negros in that church basement had going on when that white kid walked in and executed them? So much for God then again. 911 jumpers .... by far the most terifying thing I've seen to date, brought me as an adult to Fn tears seeing that on CNN, where was your real God? Didn't send down angles to soften the blow a bit now did he? Oh yes ... he had a plan, how silly of me. God so real why didn't he steer the planes into the harbour instead?

CHASER:

Keep moving the goal post!

Projection: a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others. For example, a person who is habitually rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude. It incorporates blame shifting.

Keep talking to me about this Bud...

I would love to if you were truly interested in having a rational, civil, truthseeking discussion. Your behavior here strongly indicates otherwise.

 

[RigsLS]

Didn't even bother reading any of that crap Mr Drum, simular to the link you provided previously it was garbage chatter also.

I'm done here, argue amongst yourselves.
Like bringing water to the ocean in pales.

God is a three letter word and remains a theory.

Seems you Christians when on the defense feel it's ok to have the cake and eat it also. One example is good, another not in your favor gets backed with yet another excuse.

There was a valid reason of course.
It's perfectly normal for members of the church to force themselves into children.

Sick fucks!

Enjoy your imaginary friend in the clouds, he who shall never reveal himself. Praying towards a bar stool yields same results. 50/50 chance you get what you ask for. Probability is a funny thing.

 

[cammerfe]

(Shakes head...)

KS

 

[RigsLS]

(Gestures finger ...)

 

[cammerfe]

In some ways, you're a very worthwhile addition to the ongoing discussions surrounding the Lincoln LS and I've enjoyed having you participating in what goes on around here. There must have been some sort of upset in your life recently to turn you into a horse patoot.

KS

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Seems you Christians when on the defense feel it's ok to have the cake and eat it also. One example is good, another not in your favor gets backed with yet another excuse.

Not exactly Rigs...

I'll admit that the Bible "paints" two pictures of God. One loving and benevolent... the other hating and destuctive. Please explain your personal "beef" with Christian beliefs, (beyond what I have said here). There are 2 sides to every story,,, and God is not immune to that accusation!!!

If we need to change the title of this thread.... from "God is only a Theory",,, to "God is on Trial"... then so be it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TO ALL...

If there are personal grievances to be "aired"... then so be it!!!!! Otherwise... then back the fuck off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let people speak about their "beefs" with God!!!

I'll agree that the Torah, Quran, and Bible doesn't always "paint" the best picture of God.... especially when these books talk about the decimation of nations or peoples!!!

AND... FOR THE RECORD... Rigs has been SUPPORTIVE of me while my own son has been addicted to drugs,,, and facing the consequences of his own choices [includining potential long term jail time]!!!

NO ONE... is PERFECT!!! We as Christians,,, should be CONSTANTLY reminded of THAT about OURSELVES!!! SOOooo... before this gets into a heated SHIT STORM,,, let us ALL be reminded that WE ALL FALL SHORT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[04_Sport_LS]

If this is going to become a "hate fest" between the 3 major religions of this world... and those who don't believe in those same, (and more), religions,,, then I will ask Joey to end this NOW!!! ... because then this discussion will have become completely unproductive!!!

IS THAT WHAT EVERYONE WANTS????????????????

Don-O was not a good representative of FAITH, (be it man made or not), and did nothing but confuse and conflagrate the issue!!!

INSTEAD,,, all I ask is to take a good close look at the anthropology of God and Faith.

I am willing to hear the voices and side of those who do not believe in God... but I will rebute that with founded basis and facts,,, to the best of my ability and understanding.

THAT... is what is asked [challenged] by those who don't "believe",,, and I think we owe them the courtesy of explaining why we DO!!!

Might I SUGGEST why those of us that have Faith,,, explain why we have Faith!!! THAT... seems to be the biggest question... to Atheists/Agnostics.

agnostic

ag·nos·tic [ag nóstik]
(plural ag·nos·tics)
noun
1. somebody denying God's existence is provable: somebody who believes that it is impossible to know whether or not God exists
2. somebody denying something is knowable: somebody who doubts that a question has one correct answer or that something can be completely understood
Microsoft® Encarta® 2006. © 1993-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

if you want to look at it that way ks. just getting through a day is faith that you woke up and the laws you knew yesterday are still the same. i have faith in many things.

Exactly the point that Cam was trying to make! Faith is trust. So what do you trust??? Man made things can only be trusted to a certain degree,,, AND this includes RELIGION... which most of us that post in this thread,,, also disagree with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Religion is man made!!! Has been for centuries!!! Faith is NOT man made [collectively as you suggest],,, but depends on the individual.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

the stories are irrelevent. the point is they contradict each other. it makes them all unbelievable. you can't have 3 creations of the same god. each claims to be the ONLY creation.
don't lose yourself with the story, just deal in facts.

No... the stories AREN'T irrevalent. They just show opposing sides of RELIGION... but all share a similar FAITH. Islam and Judiasm stem from the same stories and Faith,,, and Christianity stems from Judiasm!!! YOUR misnomer is that that all 3 FAITHS have 3 different creations of the same God.

In actuality,,, all 3 faiths believe in the same God that created the universe, skies, earth... and people and creatures that walk the earth. Where the divide comes... is to a "firstborn right" between 2 of the Faiths... and the 3rd says it doesn't matter who is "firstborn".

Again Wrm, (as I have said many times), study what you despise most ...
before you make objections to something you don't have a complete understanding of.

SOOooo,,, between Jews, Muslims, and Christians... they have a different understanding of who God is [and what their place is] based on THEIR understanding of God. Each is right in their own mind!!! Thing is... Muslims and Jews are willing to die to prove the other WRONG. TRUE Christians are willing to die to prove themselves RIGHT!!!

So THERE is the difference between the 3 religions/faiths. Examine the NEW TESTAMENT closely... and you might notice this discrepancy!!!!

 

[04_Sport_LS]

purely spritual and only cerebral too.
since religious views are with interaction with it, it would show somewhere. but doesn't. when it "blesses" life, or any other interaction like answering prayer would have something happening.

Ohhh but it does. Prayer has NOTHING to do with exercising religion... but everything to do with Faith!!! Even when prayer doesn't seem to "bless life" [as we understand or know it] there is an understanding later as things "develope" in a way a person understands [that only an individual can].

Example:
1- person "A" is molested
2- Person "A" works through their suffering of molestation
3- Person "A" encounters person "B" that was also molested
4- Person "A" helps person "B" heal from their molestation

HOW... is this not a blessing to both person "A" and person "B". Peson "A" finds healing through a church and Faith,,, and then person "A" also helps person "B" that is unchurched and knows nothing about God. Most other religions would consider molestation normal [and a part of life],,, and wouldn't even suggest they could find healing from [a supposed unknown] God, (or fellow sufferer).

 

[04_Sport_LS]

seriously? if i look for the easter bunny and find a rabbit, then i should believe that the easter bunny?

Then I guess that superstitious person found the "Easter Bunny" on Easter Day. Actually... Easter,,, is the pagan celebration of the goddess Ishtar... which is the goddess of fertility,,, that ancient Jews used to worship [at least according to the Bible]... when they strayed from normal beliefs.

i understand what your after here, but that doesn't wash.
here an example. you look at a tree and the wonder of gods creation. i look at a tree and and see something amazing in nature. yet i don't see supernatural necessity for it's life.
i see the millions of years nature took to get to that stage. look around. it's one progression to the next. it doesn't stop.
although i don't understand the beginning, i can see how it comes about without supernatural need.
i find it more exhilirating to continue to discover the real truth.
not some supernatural thing did it all and stop there. can't see that story a possibility.

Believe it or not... I see and understand the same thing you do,,, with a slightly different perspective.

Real truth??? We as humans were given "nature" as an example of our own frailty.

1- Spring = Birth/planting
2- Summer = Growth/life
3- Fall = Death/back to the ground
4- Winter = covering and rebirth to a new life

DON'T think for a moment... that I believe in re-incarnation!!! It's just that the seasons.... show the "cycle of life" [the way god intended us to notice].

Me personally.... I'm in early "fall". [I hope]. There's that FAITH thing again!!!!

look at the nature of the universe. right from the beginning, it's self assembling. the neccesities for life are found throughout the universe. not just here on earth.
stars are the creators. their massive gravity and processes creates all elements. if you learn a little science, it's basic chemistry.
although these things of chemistry have now become the creators themselves. .

Nope... the universe is NOT "self assembling". AGAIN... science has proven that nothing can come from from nothing!!! So your "self assembling" theory got shot out the window by the scientists you put your Faith in [that says there is no God].

to say life is just some supernatural miracle doesn't do justice to the amazement that is life. as to what it has become, and to what it will become.
we now are powerful enough to create life ourselves. whether it be genetic code from scratch, or an electronic cyber life.

Technology is a different thing however,,, and can be a blessing, (or curse), depending on how it is viewed. Either way... man is choosing his own destiny at this point,,, and has nothing to do with "self assembly".

well, we'll have to leave it, when it comes to god, we'll have to agree to disagree, because there is no arguement to change me. it'll take hard evidence.
he was THE creator, it would take some considerable miracle to believe. like an instant unexplainable peace in the middle east. after all, he can stop the earth without anyone flying off. he can instantly change everyones language.

Yup... agree to disagree. Just watch for a great peace in the middle east [may have already happened],,, and then a great war that drags all countries in [not yet].

Tower of Bable is your own misconstruction... out of context,,, and one of your many fallicies.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Didn't say you did, didn't put anything in your mouth. Spoke at you with respect to an observation I had made.

Thank you Rigs. I also meant no disrespect to you.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Ok...I'm-back...Space-bar-on-my-computer-not-working,,,due-to-a-spilled-glass-of-milk.

Apologies-to-all-for-the-other-night!!!...I-was-in-rare-form-and-fed-up-with-alot-of-shit!!!

Seems-a-couple-of-people-have-fallen-off-the-"morality-wagon"-since-I-last-posted.-Congressional-baseball-game,,,and-the-UPS-incident.-Why-did-these-people-do-what-they-did????

I-suggest-a-lack,[or-loss]-of-recognition-of-any-GOD-in-their-life.-What-about-the-fire-in-the-tower-in-England?????------Did-the-woman-that-tossed-her-infant-from-a-9th-story-window....have-any-FAITH-in-GOD?????---Did-the-man-that-caught-the-infant...have-any-FAITH-in-GOD?????????

Miracles-happen-every-day!!!!!!!---It-depends-on-if-we-see-[and/or]--recognize-them.

AGAIN---Wrm...It-depends-on-what-you-look-for!!!!!---Infant-tossed-from-90-feet!!!---and-someone-caught-it.---That's-a-MIRACLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You-also-say-that-the-devil-doesn't-exist.---You-are-wrong-buddy!!!--People-don't-randomly-take-another-human-life.....without-something-evil-existing-in-them.---My-own-family-has-suffered-loss-of-life...due-to-gun-violence.---My-birth-parents-died-by-murder/suicide!!!!---When-my-"EX"-decided-to-leave-me...---People-made-suppositions-about-me-wanting-to-do-the-same-to-her.....but-guess-what???---My-ex-is-still-alive-and-well,[if-my-son's-dealers-don't-have-the-"brass"-to-go-into-the-neighborhood].

When-I-got-accused,[years-ago],,,-of-wanting-to-do-the-same-thing-to-my-"ex"....that-my-birth-father-did-to-my-birth-mother...I-told-my-uncle[my-birth-fathers-brother]...that-the-difference-between-my-birth-father-and-I....was-that-I-had-GOD-and-FAITH....and-he-didn't!!!!!

This-however-doesn't-necessairily-hold-true-during-wartime-events.--There-is-very-little-randomness-about-a-war...other-than-not-seeing-"face-to-face",,,whom-you-are-shooting-at!!!!--Random-taking-of-life...is-expected-without-cause...other-than-for-the-"greater-good".

BTW...-My-ex-is-still-very-well-alive...even-after-working-on-her-vehicle-multiple-times.---She-still-can't-stand-me-getting-on-her-ass-about-our-son...but-too-bad!!!!---I-have-always-been-"hard-core"-because-I-was-raised-by-a-WW2-veteran.

So-yes-Wrm...the-devil-does-exist-also...and-is-trying-to-take-with-him-whomever-he-can...by-causing-disbelief-in-him.---Bible-and-Torah-aren't-too-hard-to-prove-existance-of-the-devil.----I'll-dig-around-in-the-Quran-also...if-it-will-satisfy-you!!!!!!!

HECK...If-you-really-wanted-to,,,you-could-do-the-homework-yourself-about-the-Quran-and-the-devil.---Based-on-your-complaints-about-God...it's-really-not-my-job-to-prove-to-you-that-the-devil-exists.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Projection: a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others. For example, a person who is habitually rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude. It incorporates blame shifting.

Perrrrfect-Shag!!!--Keep-it-up!!!---I'm-in-your-corner,(and-Cam's-too)...Just-also-keep-in-mind-that-this-is-ALSO-an-anthropolicical-discussion/debate.

I-am-soooo-glad-at-this-point,,,that-Don/O-is-no-longer-part-of-this-discussion.----Going-round-and-round-with-him....was-getting-tiresome.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Yup-Wrm...the-Quran-does-talk/speak-about-the-devil:

doestheQurantalkaboutthedevil - Google Search

But-then-again...""whatever-you-look-for,,,you-will-find!!!""-----Whatever-"proof"-you-are-looking-for...will-depend-on-the-link-you-"click"-on.

Love-or-hate...depends-on-the-individual,,,and-what-is-at-the-"core"-of-the-individuals-"being"-and-thought-process/mindset!!!!

AND...YES,,,this-STRICTLY-comes-down-to-a-"matter-of-FAITH"!!!!!!!

If-a-person-wants-to-hate-others,,,then-they-will-do-so.---If-a-person-wants-to-love-others,,,then-they-will-do-so.---In-THE-END,,,of-life...it-comes-down-to-a-matter-of-the-heart-of-the-individual...and-what-they-contributed-to"LIFE"!!!---Not-only-for-themselves...but-for-others!!!---Also-on-how-they-treated-and-observed-others.

I'm-pretty-sure[without-much,(but-some),-research]that-the-3-major-religions[when-taken-in-proper-perspective]...teach-this-ideology.---However...some-people-will-not-be-of-this-mindset.

This-goes/comes-from-centuries-past-and-present.---From-before-Hitler...to-the-present-day-tragidies...be-it-California,Texas,New-York...Great-Britain,Israel,Afghanistan,Japan,China...or-others.

For-years...one-of-my-favorites-has-been-the-school-bus-driver-from-Cleveland...that-had-young-girls-chained-up-in-his-basement.---He-begged-the-court...not-to-tear-down-his-house,,,because-there-were-so-many-"fond-memories"-that-he-had.---Seems-my-moral-willing-decision-didn't-matter....because-the-guy-hung-himself-because-the-house-of-his-"fond-memories"...was-destroyed.---It-saved-me-from-willingly-"thowing-the-switch"...when-2-of-the-3-major-Faiths-say-I-would-have-been-right-to-do-so...while-the-3rd-major-Faith-taught-me-that-I-had-commited-my-own-sins,,,and-that-I-needed-to-extend-"forgiveness"-to-him...that-I-had-been-given.

THAAAAAT'S-the-hard-part,,,putting-aside-our-own-personal-feelings...and-extending-to-others...something-we-don't-deserve!!!---It's-called-"GRACE"-because-NONE-of-us-have-lived-up-to-a-completely-moral-standard.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

In-the-end-though...there-are-some-people-that-have-no-moral-conscience!!!

 

[shagdrum]

Didn't even bother reading any of that crap Mr Drum, simular to the link you provided previously it was garbage chatter also.

You mean the link with the half hour long explanation (podcast) at the bottom of the page of Thomas Aquinas' "Unmoved Mover" proof of God (one of Aquinas' 5 proofs)? The podcast/article by an ivy league educated historian (PhD)? The one by a New York Times best-selling author who has written numerous works on Christianity/Catholicism and has forgotten more on those subjects than you will ever know? The guy who is imminently genial in his explaining of the argument in question?

Yeah, total "garbage chatter" and unworthy of taking the time to consider.

SHOT:

Sick fucks!

CHASER:

(Gestures finger ...)

 

[cammerfe]

 

[hrmwrm]

Again Wrm, (as I have said many times), study what you despise most ...

you think i'm unversed in religion. it's why i don't study it. mostly because i don't have an interest in a god, but can look at it from the outside, unbiased.
i have the same view of all religions. but you seem to have an abrahamic bias.

1- person "A" is molested
2- Person "A" works through their suffering of molestation
3- Person "A" encounters person "B" that was also molested
4- Person "A" helps person "B" heal from their molestation

well, isn't that a perfectly self serving example. i don't see how that is prayer. soundslike anybody who can go to a self help group, no religion or god attached. no miracle, no prayer. so. everybody had a good day, no need for imaginary friends.
seriously 04, you should bother someone who cares. til the laws of physics are repealed i'll stand by them.
you wanna stand by the imaginary friend, well, i'm tired of talking to you, so i;m gonna close my door now. take your lies elsewhere.

 

[cammerfe]

If that were only true...

KS

 

[04_Sport_LS]

you think i'm unversed in religion. it's why i don't study it. mostly because i don't have an interest in a god, but can look at it from the outside, unbiased.
i have the same view of all religions. but you seem to have an abrahamic bias.

Nope Wrm... wrong again. Mine is a "Faith" bias,,, not Abrahamic. Go back to the story of my own personal history that I told. When my birth parents died by murder/suicide... I was found in my crib,,,,THREE days after the incident, (and truthfully/sadly...only because of the stench of rotting corpses).

I was 11 months old at the time. Could it be considered a "miracle" that I survived Wrm???

well, isn't that a perfectly self serving example. i don't see how that is prayer.

Not prayer Wrm,,, but a FACT that is time and time again PROVEN... that a person who HAS proper "FAITH",,, that has gone through the same thing that a person who doesn't have faith... can help the person that doesn't have faith,,, find proper FAITH and healing from the circumstances that were suffered.

It has nothing to do with a "self help group",,, as you suggest.... but an "EXPERIENCE" group,,, that helps others FIND FAITH where it properly belongs. NOT in each other,,, but in a "Master Creator".

you wanna stand by the imaginary friend, well, i'm tired of talking to you, so i;m gonna close my door now. take your lies elsewhere.

Well isn't that original??? When "Don-O" got cornered in his debate here,,, he called me a liar also!!!! If you wanna leave,,, then leave. Shame though... since you started this thread.

Almost 700 posts,,, and NOW you give up???? Because you can't win the argument you started??? I thought you had more fight in you than that!!! That's what life is all about... right??? Fight until the end,,, and then you die for nothing??? Why bother if the GOOD in each/most of us... doesn't surpass the bad/evil in the rest of us?????????????

Seems the only FAITH you have... is in endless meaningless. C'mon dude... I really want to see you fight!!! Not just for what you belive in,,, but for what you KNOW is right!!!!!!!!!!

 

[04_Sport_LS]

If we need to change the title of this thread.... from "God is only a Theory",,, to "God is on Trial"... then so be it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TO ALL...

If there are personal grievances to be "aired"... then so be it!!!!! Otherwise... then back the fuck off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let people speak about their "beefs" with God!!!

I STILL stand by the above statement... because,,, in TRUTH... GOD has ALWAYS been "on trial" by those who don't believe, (don't have FAITH). Been that way since almost the beginning of everything that exists in this universe.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Seems you Christians when on the defense feel it's ok to have the cake and eat it also. One example is good, another not in your favor gets backed with yet another excuse.

There was a valid reason of course.
It's perfectly normal for members of the church to force themselves into children.

Sick fucks!

Cam and Shag,

I think-you-may-have-taken-Rig's-comment-out-of-context!!!!...SOOOOO-it-may-not-be-"SHOT-and-"Chaser"-like-you-think-and-accuse-"Rigs"-of???

Take a careful-"re-read"-in-the-context-given-above.

Now external keyboard starting to give me problems. This goes beyond spilled milk.

AGAIN-Rigs...PREISTS who did this will most likely BURN!!! They will NOT see GOD...unless they repent, (not by prayer or "Religion...but by confession to GOD in TRUE FAITH). Doesn't make it any easier for those who were molested... but peace of mind is peace of mind!!!! The CHOICE-is-left-up-to-the-INDIVIDUAL!!!!!!!

SO how bout it RIGS??? Can an individual-that-has-FAITH...HAVE "FAITH ENOUGH"...to-let-GOD DECIDE,,,whether or not GOD-will-see-the-heart-of-an-individual-person...and-let-GOD-DECIDE-the-fate-of-that individual???????

"True Faith"...is letting GOD decide the heart of-the-individual,,,based-on-the heart of the individual. For an example.... look at the song by "Creed"...called "My-OWN-Prision.

I'll-provide-the-song...you-look-up-the-lyrics:

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Seems you Christians when on the defense feel it's ok to have the cake and eat it also. One example is good, another not in your favor gets backed with yet another excuse.

There was a valid reason of course.
It's perfectly normal for members of the church to force themselves into children.

Sick fucks!

Cam and Shag,

I think-you-may-have-taken-Rig's-comment-out-of-context!!!!...SOOOOO-it-may-not-be-"SHOT-and-"Chaser"-like-you-think-and-accuse-"Rigs"-of???

Take a careful-"re-read"-in-the-context-given-above.

Now external keyboard starting to give me problems. This goes beyond spilled milk.

AGAIN-Rigs...PREISTS who did this will most likely BURN!!! They will NOT see GOD...unless they repent, (not by prayer or "Religion...but by confession to GOD in TRUE FAITH). Doesn't make it any easier for those who were molested... but peace of mind is peace of mind!!!! The CHOICE-is-left-up-to-the-INDIVIDUAL!!!!!!!

SO how bout it RIGS??? Can an individual-that-has-FAITH...HAVE "FAITH ENOUGH"...to-let-GOD DECIDE,,,whether or not GOD-will-see-the-heart-of-an-individual-person...and-let-GOD-DECIDE-the-fate-of-that individual???????

"True Faith"...is letting GOD decide the heart of-the-individual,,,based-on-the heart of the individual. For an example.... look at the song by "Creed"...called "My-OWN-Prision.

I'll-provide-the-song...you-look-up-the-lyrics: