God is Only a Theory

[RigsLS]

Rigs,,, I read some of the link you provided... and it doesn't actually disprove the existence of God. All that author is doing is proving misunderstandings about God,,, and twisting things to support his rhetoric.

Should have taken my own bet, so knew you'd come back with lines like this.

... they brought the legend and traditions of Sinterklaas with them. The New Amsterdam Dutch later shortened "Sinterklaas" to "Santa Claus".

LOL ... Saint Nick and his black Petes. Yes Yes such a real story, put some carrots out in your wooden shoes for his white horse. He had a pretty nice golden staff as well. More Mombo Jumbo about a real Saint from the heavens above. Arrived once a year by ship.

"His reputation evolved among the faithful, as was common for early Christian saints"

Keep buying into it 04_, it's what they want you to do. Take notice how quickly you in fact did.

Side note, it is known as Sinterklaas only in Holland, (spend 13yrs there), it, (not they the Dutch), translates into Santa Claus for the rest of the world. Two separate made up characters once again by mankind.



You guys keep on pounding that bible to me ... Saints to Santa.
Perhaps show me God instead not just brainwashing words.

.

 

[RigsLS]

The Black Pete character first emerged around the same time in a children's book Saint Nicholas and His Servant, in which Black Pete is a ...

04_ do take notice of the embolden words. Also do note it's once again a book "produced" by mankind.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

You guys keep on pounding that bible to me

Actually,,, I haven't been pounding the Bible to you since you stepped into this conversation. Most of that debate was with Don-O. Hmmmm

You still haven't proven that God doesn't exist,,, anymore than I can prove to you He does.

Might sound a bit absurd... but why don't you try asking a being that you don't belive is real,,, to prove to you that He is???

Perhaps show me God instead not just brainwashing words.

I'm not trying to brainwash anybody. And it's kinda difficult to show something that doesn't exist in physical form, (unless a person treats the Bible as a historical document that is validated by other non-religiuos sources).

Hey,,, if you are content with non-existence when you die... then that's fine. But if that's the case,,, then why not throw morality out the window.... and rape, kill, steal, abuse, torture, and cheat eveyone around you??? What is stopping you from doing that??? Why even bother being a major helpful contributor on this forum??? Why bother doing any good at all towards others?

Yeah... ok,,, if you killed someone,,, you would most likely be put to death... but why not just get it overwith now if the end result is the same?????????? At least then you could say you got everything you wanted out of life before you died.

Also do note it's once again a book "produced" by mankind.

And that's the difference between a children's book and the Bible. The Bible wasn't written by man... it was RECORDED by man. AGAIN... the Bible is as much a historical book as it is a religious, [hate that term], book.

 

[RigsLS]

I do good because I wish to proceed through this life cycle as a pleasant and good man.
If I was going to throw good out the window it wouldn't be because of any god or book.
If I did so, where would you suggest I would end up with all that negative action? Jail perhaps?

Let's not get into this "having faith" and ...

... rape, kill, steal, abuse, torture, and cheat eveyone around you??? What is stopping you from doing that???

One does not have to be religious or believe in something that is not in order to behave properly in life. Raping, stealing, killing as such ... this is normal to you? So it's either God or this? Come on now. People can be good without joining all that Mumbo Jumbo God Bible club stuff. Really ... and it shouldn't be God or Sin. Going through life without committing crime is just a better choice, has very little to do with God or his followers.


Listen ... Imma stop adding to this shit because it's the same thing over and over again.
There is no God. There are no heavens. The book is produced by mankind. You can't show me any proof that it's all real. It's all around us but it doesn't exist. I'm not going to convert unless the big man visits me and takes me for a personal tour and shows me how real it all is. One does not have to prove something that isn't. One does need to provide proof of something that is not real they'd wish others to believe in.

I choose to life a good life, not dictated by a hocus pocus book produced by man.

Still haven't shown me God just yet, just a bunch of words from a book. <-- can be repeated until the cows come home.

 

[shagdrum]

Don't need to because it's not real.

Faith isn't real?! You do realize how broad that statement is, right? In fact, it takes faith to assert such a broad claim, making your statement self-refuting.

rejection?
Hold on now ... something would have to be real and explained before one could reject it.

You can't know that unless you actually understand the arguments FOR it. Which you clearly don't.

...still provides no proof that the Gods really do exist. It's just written words put to paper produced by mankind.

Again, it is clear you are unfamiliar with the various proofs for God. So this statement is simply an exercise in blind faith.

 

[shagdrum]

One does need to provide proof of something that is not real they'd wish others to believe in.

I provided you a link spelling out one of the classic proofs for God and you threw it back in my face! I really doubt you understand what constitutes "proof". Frankly, you seem to be functioning more on that "nonexistent" faith than anyone else in this thread (except maybe hrmwrm, as usual).

 

[cammerfe]

You have faith every time you get into a vehicle and drive down the highway. One of your 'faiths' is that the next time you press on the brake pedal the vehicle will actually slow down and stop. An understanding of statistics might make you think about that. But you continue to go out and exercise faith.

KS

 

[RigsLS]

Shaggy, care to talk to me about the faith them little alterboys had when the men of the cloth forced themselves into their young mouths? Where was God then ... faith has it he did fuck all about it at the time. Care to break down the faith them nine negros in that church basement had going on when that white kid walked in and executed them? So much for God then again. 911 jumpers .... by far the most terifying thing I've seen to date, brought me as an adult to Fn tears seeing that on CNN, where was your real God? Didn't send down angles to soften the blow a bit now did he? Oh yes ... he had a plan, how silly of me. God so real why didn't he steer the planes into the harbour instead?

Keep talking to me about this Bud, I totally get where you are coming from. Your God provides all, yet on Sundays they'd have you believe it's time to separate with 10% of your paycheck.

God, faith, the Bible ... keep letting me have it like you are taught to. Sorry but it's all a bunch of crock to me, rather read a Harry Potter book.

 

[RigsLS]

You have faith every time you get into a vehicle and drive down the highway. One of your 'faiths' is that the next time you press on the brake pedal the vehicle will actually slow down and stop. An understanding of statistics might make you think about that. But you continue to go out and exercise faith.

KS

Fucks sakes KS, pretty sure we were talking about faith in God not automotive parts. Sure I'd have faith in the fact I'd eventually get that jar opened.

 

[hrmwrm]

if you want to look at it that way ks. just getting through a day is faith that you woke up and the laws you knew yesterday are still the same. i have faith in many things. just not religion or imaginary friends. or supernatural bull poop.

anymore than I can prove to you He does.

(wtf happened to wrap in quotes in bbcode? click on more options, and still not there.)
proof is not the problem as much as the lack of evidence in favour of the supernatural.
and who determned it's a he? if there is only 1, it's a it.
goes forever, never needs to reproduce, has no other to reproduce with, never started, and never ends.
sounds like something that doesn't exist.


oh, 04, and about jesus and the 3 religions read the same? one glaring difference.
one has a supernatural son, who is said to be god, one doesn't, and has him a profit, and 1 denies he ever existed. so, which 1 is right?
not that it matters, it points out the ludricous claims by any religious text.
but, hey, alot of people like wasting their life following something that'll lead to nothing.

 

[RigsLS]

... Why even bother being a major helpful contributor on this forum??? Why bother doing any good at all towards others?

Like this was necessary.
Explain this process to me please!
How is it if it's not God it must then always be Evil? I honestly thought you were a decent man, you and I have even had personal discussion in PM related to real life isues but here you go and paint me to be confused as why I would even bother to go through life normally without hate and crime simply because I dare suggest God is not real. SPLENDID!!!!

See the thing is, over the years, I have taken notice to the fact that when believers are rejected they immediately feel the need to proclaim those that don't as "must be evil".

Sad really.

 

[hrmwrm]

See the thing is, over the years, I have taken notice to the fact that when believers are rejected they immediately feel the need to proclaimed those that don't as must be evil.

that is their problem. if you don't believe, you are collaborating with the devil. biggest thing is that it doesn't exist either.
and as i've gone through life, i noticed my morals are a lot higher than many so called believers. yet i don't stand by their book, so how can that be? because the whole premise is bs.

 

[RigsLS]

Used to believe in the tooth fairy, till the day I realized I was getting short changed.

 

[cammerfe]

Rigs, I don't think I've ever suggested, and I certainly don't think you are, evil. I simply don't understand why you seem compelled to jeer at my beliefs.

KS

 

[RigsLS]

Keep moving the goal post!
Back on subject,

SHOW ME GOD !!!!!

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Like this was necessary.
Explain this process to me please!
How is it if it's not God it must then always be Evil? I honestly thought you were a decent man, you and I have even had personal discussion in PM related to real life isues but here you go and paint me to be confused as why I would even bother to go through life normally without hate and crime simply because I dare suggest God is not real. SPLENDID!!!!

Sorry,,, meant to get back to this sooner,,, but life has me busy. I was actually going to bring up some of what you have mentioned,,, and that for the most part you have been very helpful to myself and others one here. PLEASE don't take my comments the wrong way!!! My questions were meant as rhetorical,,, and I apologize for any offense. And... I was going somewhere with this.

Now to further my point:

As far as rape, murder,,,etc. ... no I don't consider that stuff normal,,, but it happens all the time. Why??? [rhetorical] No... it is not either God or evil,,,, but actually a matter of "both/and". We all do good and evil to different degrees every day, week, month... so NONE of us are perfect. It's when the choices become evil more often... or more evil

Since you don't believe that a person has a soul... you're gonna probably going to consider this more BS,,, but I have come to understand that there is a little bit of God in all of us. No,,, I'm not saying that we are all Gods... just that we all have what could be called an "natural"
conscience". It is more than just based on a societal and/or cultural knowledge,,, because societies and cultures can change their veiwpoints based on "popular thinking".

It isn't anything we grew into, or something that was learned. It has always been with us, (innate knowledge of right and wrong). Sometimes we listen to it... and sometimes we don't. The less we listen to our conscience,,, the more we open ourselves up to doing wrong... and eventually morality goes out the window,,, and a person becomes completely corrupt.

I could cite many example of this...

I guess my point is,,, that people internally know the difference between right and wrong,,, but can choose either. They either listen to their conscience,,, or ignore it.

There are reasons most [all] countries have prisons and the death penalty. This has gone on for thousands of years... and is described in a historical book you don't approve of.

There's my explanation.

The book is produced by mankind. You can't show me any proof that it's all real.

No... not all of it,,, but if a person studies the Bible as a historical book,,, they would find that many of the places, and some of the characters cited within the book... do and did exist. That proves the Bible accurate historically... and it really doesn't take much once the historical accuracy is found true,,, to look at the religious [again... hate that word] aspects and see some validity there also. Especailly since the Jewish faith and history hasn't changed over the last 10,000 years or so.

See the thing is, over the years, I have taken notice to the fact that when believers are rejected they immediately feel the need to proclaim those that don't as "must be evil".

I have NEVER said or called anyone evil,,, just because they don't belive!!! So please don't put words in my mouth.

I'm not going to convert unless the big man visits me and takes me for a personal tour and shows me how real it all is.

And I sincerely pray that you get your request. It may be this year... or 30 years from now,,, but it WILL happen. Be careful what you ask for.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

and as i've gone through life, i noticed my morals are a lot higher than many so called believers. yet i don't stand by their book, so how can that be? because the whole premise is bs.

THANK YOU!!!


Study of the Bible will SHOW that many people that consider themselves believers... actually aren't. However,,, the Bible also shows that high morals aren't the only thing required either.

proof is not the problem as much as the lack of evidence in favour of the supernatural.

That depends on what you look for and how you mentally approach the idea. There is an old saying... "whatever you look for you will find". That also means that whatever you don't look for you WON'T find.

I'm still curious as to why... very early on in this thread,,, you mentioned the book of Enoch. It seemed like an odd place to start with disproving God.

and who determned it's a he? if there is only 1, it's a it.

You'd have to ask Adam and Eve that question.

goes forever, never needs to reproduce, has no other to reproduce with, never started, and never ends.
sounds like something that doesn't exist.

Sounds like a supernatural being that exists outside of space and time. Purely spiritual. Soley "existence".

oh, 04, and about jesus and the 3 religions read the same? one glaring difference.
one has a supernatural son, who is said to be god, one doesn't, and has him a profit, and 1 denies he ever existed. so, which 1 is right?

They don't say exactly the same thing,,, but thay do overlap each other in different places thoughout human history. They also share similar beliefs , but obviously there are divisions there also. You are somewhat accurate,,, however... a bit off.

Jesus was supernatural [worded that way to prevent argument], but also claimed to be God in human form. Thus the reason he was crucified. Jesus allowed himself to be crucified as a permanent atonement for all of men's wrongdoings [that's the simple version].

Muhammad was a prophet supposedly SENT by God. Not God Himself. And came along roughly 500 years after Jesus' crucifixtion. Muslims recognize Jesus as a prophet also,,, but not as important as Muhammad.

The Jews are STILL waiting for their Messiah,,, [not God himself]. They don't think Jesus never existed... they just are convinced he wasn't the Messiah God promised them.

To study where the Jews and Muslims divided,,, you have to go back to the story of Isaac and Ishmael... and why there was division. To study where the Jews and Christians divided... that pretty self evident in the New Testament.

To understand why radical Muslims want to do away with Both Jews and Christians,,, one has to study the Bible, Torah, and the Quran. And I confess I need to spend more time in the Quran to understand it.

However,,, a good read is one I mentioned in a post sometime back:

A History of God - The 400 year quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam
by Karen Armstrong

It also discusses other religions,,, and ideologies beyond religion.

 

[cammerfe]

You're yelling, "Show me God" with your eyes jammed firmly shut and your fingers in your ears.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

A History of God - The 400 year quest of Judaism, Christianity and Islam

Typo:

Sould be "The 4000 year quest"

 

[04_Sport_LS]

Shaggy, care to talk to me about the faith them little alterboys had when the men of the cloth forced themselves into their young mouths? Where was God then ... faith has it he did fuck all about it at the time. Care to break down the faith them nine negros in that church basement had going on when that white kid walked in and executed them? So much for God then again.

Perrrrrrrfect!!!! And I agree!!! THat shit was waaaay wrong! But I can cover this with something I said above to WRM.

Study of the Bible will SHOW that many people that consider themselves believers... actually aren't. However,,, the Bible also shows that high morals aren't the only thing required either.

Those preists and that kid,,, lost their "internal conscience"... and were overtaken by evil. I blame the preist thing partly due to the fact that they aren't allowed to marry,,, but then again sexual predators are everywhere.

911 jumpers .... by far the most terifying thing I've seen to date, brought me as an adult to Fn tears seeing that on CNN, where was your real God? Didn't send down angles to soften the blow a bit now did he? Oh yes ... he had a plan, how silly of me. God so real why didn't he steer the planes into the harbour instead?

This one is a bit more complicated to explain. I don't have time right now,,, but I'll be back later tonight. [hopefully]

However,,, remember late summer/early fall of 2015 during Ramadan? A storm blew up out of nowhere in the desert,,, and turned a very large [huge] crane over backwards... right into the main mosque that Muslims make their pilgrimage to every year. IIRC... It happened on 911.

Take that for what it's worth

 

[04_Sport_LS]

And YES... I was in tears too,,, watching those jumpers. Worse was watching the PBS version,,, that recorded the thumps of the bodes hitting the roof above the entrance,,, with the fire fighters inside hearing it.

 

[04_Sport_LS]

I'm back... and yup,,, it was on 911.

Scores Killed in Mecca as Crane Crashes Into Grand Mosque - The ...
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/12/world/.../crane-crash-grand-mosque-mecca.html
Sep 11, 2015 - IZMIR, Turkey — A large construction crane toppled over and crashed into the Grand Mosque in the holy city of Mecca on Friday, killing at least ...



Can anyone really chalk this up to coincidence??? It goes waaaay beyond karma.

Ironically... the very small church across the road from the towers [where George Washington went to church] remained completely unscathed as the towers burned and fell.

Don't get me wrong... I'm NOT anti Muslim. One of my favorite pictures I took at the 911 site,,, was a picture of a muslim woman crying in anguish as she watched the towers. I have it around here somewhere. The pictures in the subway entrance in front of the towers... drawn by the kids who lost parents there,,, were heartwrenching. I have pics of those too.

I AM however... anti religion.

 

[RigsLS]

Nurse late with the meds again Ken?
Be a good Christian, try and act your age not your shoe size!

 

[hrmwrm]

Jesus was supernatural [worded that way to prevent argument], but also claimed to be God in human form. Thus the reason he was crucified. Jesus allowed himself to be crucified as a permanent atonement for all of men's wrongdoings [that's the simple version].

Muhammad was a prophet supposedly SENT by God. Not God Himself. And came along roughly 500 years after Jesus' crucifixtion. Muslims recognize Jesus as a prophet also,,, but not as important as Muhammad.

The Jews are STILL waiting for their Messiah,,, [not God himself]. They don't think Jesus never existed... they just are convinced he wasn't the Messiah God promised them.

the stories are irrelevent. the point is they contradict each other. it makes them all unbelievable. you can't have 3 creations of the same god. each claims to be the ONLY creation.
don't lose yourself with the story, just deal in facts.

and as i said about enoch, and i even quoted the sections. they are an impossibility. going to the EDGES of the earth, seeing the GATES where the sun and moon go.
it's outright impossibility. do you understand now? if one part is impossible, it all is. couldn't of happened, didn't happen.


(i think i'm getting the hang of this board now with quotes. i see it's not needed in bbcode now.)

Sounds like a supernatural being that exists outside of space and time. Purely spiritual. Soley "existence".

purely spritual and only cerebral too.
since religious views are with interaction with it, it would show somewhere. but doesn't. when it "blesses" life, or any other interaction like answering prayer would have something happening. measureable. even though we don't understand it, we do know about gravity and it's properties. it's measureable and we know nowadays that it's variable, dependent on mass.
so if it was real, it would be measureable somewhere. there would be EVIDENCE of something at work. measureable evidence.

That depends on what you look for and how you mentally approach the idea. There is an old saying... "whatever you look for you will find". That also means that whatever you don't look for you WON'T find.

seriously? if i look for the easter bunny and find a rabbit, then i should believe that the easter bunny?

i understand what your after here, but that doesn't wash.
here an example. you look at a tree and the wonder of gods creation. i look at a tree and and see something amazing in nature. yet i don't see supernatural necessity for it's life.
i see the millions of years nature took to get to that stage. look around. it's one progression to the next. it doesn't stop.
although i don't understand the beginning, i can see how it comes about without supernatural need.
i find it more exhilirating to continue to discover the real truth.
not some supernatural thing did it all and stop there. can't see that story a possibility.

look at the nature of the universe. right from the beginning, it's self assembling. the neccesities for life are found throughout the universe. not just here on earth.
stars are the creators. their massive gravity and processes creates all elements. if you learn a little science, it's basic chemistry.
although these things of chemistry have now become the creators themselves.

to say life is just some supernatural miracle doesn't do justice to the amazement that is life. as to what it has become, and to what it will become.
we now are powerful enough to create life ourselves. whether it be genetic code from scratch, or an electronic cyber life.
robotics is in it's early stages, but it is evolving from a mundane assembly machine to something created in OUR image. soon.


well, we'll have to leave it, when it comes to god, we'll have to agree to disagree, because there is no arguement to change me. it'll take hard evidence.
he was THE creator, it would take some considerable miracle to believe. like an instant unexplainable peace in the middle east. after all, he can stop the earth without anyone flying off. he can instantly change everyones language. something along those lines. how about we all spoke 1 language? and believed in 1 god?
not asking for anything it hasn't done before.

 

[RigsLS]

I have NEVER said or called anyone evil,,, just because they don't belive!!! So please don't put words in my mouth.

Didn't say you did, didn't put anything in your mouth. Spoke at you with respect to an observation I had made.