God is Only a Theory

Sorry about the double post.

Continuing... humanism and relativism have replaced Faith and Theology.

I.E. As long as you feel good and what you belive seems right... then you are ok. Ignore what the Bible says,,, because it doesn't matter... and God is no longer relevant.
 
Went back and did some re-reading.

Ima Luthier said:
BUT, man has been God's representative since man's creation,
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I don't think so. God has done a pretty good job of representing Himself... and defining what He wants from us.

If anything... the Bible points to the fact that man is mostly self-serving,,, which is opposite of being a representative of God. Yeah... sometimes we get it right,,,, but most times we get it wrong.

Most people:

Me First,
God Second,
Others Third.

How God wants it:

God First,
Others Second,
Me Last.

Not getting on your case,,, but just trying to prove a point.

Did Cain kill Able... because he was trying to be a good representative of God???

Were the cities of Soddom and Gomorrah good representatives of God???

How many wars are recorded in the Bible... and how many of them were humans being a good representative of God???

If humans were such a good representative of God... then why did Jesus have to die on the cross for our wrongdoings??? !!! ???

The WHOLE of the story of the Bible... is to point out that God made us with "free will"... the same as the Angels. Even some of the angels couldn't be a good representative of God,,, and we are lower than the Angels, (paraphrased Bible verse there).

So God knew we wouldn't always be a good representative of HIM.

So where does that leave us as humans??? By FAITH... under God's grace, (another paraphrased Bible verse). God offers to those people who have Faith,,, more than 1/3rd of the angels will get!!! All of the Angels have seen God,,, when very few people have!!!

So in some ways... all of us as humans,,, have a better chance of Blessing,(through Faith), than a third of the angels. Most people don't get this... or going to the other extreme,,, take it for granted!!!

My point... is don't miss the point! The Bible paints a very clear and clean, (and ugly), picture... of man's misrepresentation of God. Been going on for a long time. Do I need to mention "the crusades"??? "Convert to Christianity or die"!!!

Think God wanted that end result??? Yeah... we are great representatives of God as humans!!!

I apologize Ima. Don't take what I say here as personal. It's not directed at you,,, but to the thought process that through man's own volition... he can become more than what was self-intended.
 
Ima,

To confirm what you have asked in the past... YES,,, I diffentiate between Faith and spirituality. Faith is the belief in "things seen and unseen" (another paraphrased Bible verse)... while spirituality is a method of seeking all things, (to a supposed "unknown god")... (another paraphrased Bible verse).
 
Ima Luthier said:
One has to think that not every soul that passed away before the times of Christ and Abraham is condemned to hell because they were not Christian nor Jewish...there's so much we do not know, that one book written by a man's interpretation of God's word that has been passed down through multiple iterations that so many sects follow (the dilution I mentioned earlier, if you will), and teach differently. "Religion" as a concept is man-made, "spirituality" and "faith" is inherent (unless you are atheist, in which all bets are off).
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Well... I'll explain this to the best of my understanding of the Bible and what Jesus said. I think I have done this in past posts in this thread!!! Honestly... I get tired of addressing the same arguments,,, over and over. Same as goes for the other side of this forum... about the LS. Some things are right and work,,, while others aren't and don't.

Some of it was explained by parables from Jesus.

Those that die in faith to God, (not specifically Jewish,,, but any having Faith in a "savior" ... "God Himself" through his death and resurrection), understood that they would go to a place reserved for them... until Jesus actually died on the cross. This would go for some people that didn't know God as Jesus,,, but knew God Himself.... such as Abraham and Moses.
(this is based on the Hebrew/Jewish belief of the "Old Testament"... and based on Biblical conversations between God and Moses).

So those that had TRUE FAITH... went to a temporary place called "Sheol"... awaiting resurrection, (as described in the New Testament Book of Hebrews)...and elswhere in the New Testament, IIRC. There were 2 parts to Sheol. One was "Abrahams Bousom"... and the other side was known as known as the "place of torment". (Biblical Scriptural reference mentioned by Jesus at this point).

There are places in the Bible where Jesus describes both a place of eternal rest,,, and a place of eternal torment.

Ima gonna let you do the research at this point. (hope you get the pun). It's not that hard. From the beginning of "man",,, there hae only been 2 choices. Life or death,,, living or dying... Faith in God or unbelief.

Looking back,,, I can see how God has used me to help others believe in Him... and I can also see how I have reached out to others to help them believe,,, and they didn't want to listen to reason and Faith.

So choose life, (another Scriptural verse). Choose "Blessing or cursing"... (another last Bible verse).
 
04_Sport_LS said:
A Bible passage completely misunderstood and taken out of context by you. The Bible verse that mentions "a third of the stars falling from the sky"... is a metaphorical context,,, pointing to the revolt of 1/3 of the angels rebelling against GOD!!!

You liked touting your beloved Book of Enoch,,, but don't even know what it is talking about. The chapters from Enoch that you provided very early in this thread... talked about angels being imprisioned. So the verse in Revelation about the Dragon sweeping 1/3 of the stars from the sky... is when the devil and 1/3 of the angels did the same.

Kinda hard to disprove something without knowing what you are talking about... isn't it??? Again WRM... try reading the Bible and understanding what it says. What do you have to lose,,, besides becoming more educated???
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Matthew 24:29 ...'Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.'

don't see a 1/3 of nothing there. it says stars. not angels.
you sound kinda ignorant when you reply thinking who you're talking to is ignorant.
and if that wasn't the line you thought i was referring to, then maybe next time you should ask for clarification.
and my reference to enoch is for the fact it could only happen in a flat earth, which we know isn't true.
but hey, carry on.
 
I see you're making your, currently, bi-monthly visit to try to stir the pot. Gee, long time no see! Or is this Rigs making an April Fool Joke?

KS
 
cammerfe said:
I see you're making your, currently, bi-monthly visit to try to stir the pot. Gee, long time no see! Or is this Rigs making an April Fool Joke?

KS
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see your still replying to everything i post.
 
I get bored and you're an easy mark.

Don't they speak English where you live? Here, we teach the difference between 'your' and 'you're' at about the second-grade level.

KS
 
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well, you must be smart then. so, how do stars fall from the sky? you must have learned that in the first grade level.
 
no, no, god's YOUR imagination ks.
giving up defending the bible?
yes, you're seeing the mythology now.
reality is finally sinking in.

happy easter ks.
 
cammerfe said:
... Or is this Rigs making an April Fool Joke?

KS
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Say what?
You're kidding me right, I wouldn't waste any of my time discussing fairytales with others online, that's for damn sure.

Thanks for the accusation though, much appreciated. Tell ya what, how about you contact Joey and ask him if my login IP address is the same as that other member. HUMOR ME !!!

PS: I had respect for you. Now you're just another clown to me!
 
Tighty whities a little snug there? The sarcasm should be obvious. Lighten up! Taking sarcastic banter seriously is beneath you.

KS
 
OKAY... seems satan has been having a little fun with us here lately. I hate that bastard!!! Let's try to keep this conversation on the original topic. Does God actually exist or not???

More to come...
 
2nd Corinthians 4:4 (NLT)

Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.


Excuse me for a while while I try to catch a "worm"..... I'm goin' fishing ;)
 
hrmwrm said:
holy crap. the 2 jesus freaks stopped.
hey donno, there is written a few times in the bible of the stars falling from heaven, and one where it says they fall to earth. now, knowing what a star is, being our sun is one, and it's thousands of times bigger than the earth, how can they fall to earth without devouring it?
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Quoting you WRM,,, from post #571... I'll get to my point.
 
hrmwrm said:
Matthew 24:29 ...'Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.'

don't see a 1/3 of nothing there. it says stars. not angels.
you sound kinda ignorant when you reply thinking who you're talking to is ignorant.
and if that wasn't the line you thought i was referring to, then maybe next time you should ask for clarification.
and my reference to enoch is for the fact it could only happen in a flat earth, which we know isn't true.
but hey, carry on.
Click to expand...


Wow WRM... you surprise me!!! This is the first time in 600+ posts... that you ACTUALLY quote a literal Bible verse. Thing is... you are quoting what Jesus, (a person you say you don't belive actually existed), was actually quoting... from the Biblical books of Isaiah and Joel. You are bordering on pulling a "Don-Ohio" move,,, by trying to prove your point... and trying to twist Scripture into something it ISN'T saying.

If you look at the post above this... YOU are the one that mentions a Bible verse,,, where stars fall to the earth. That's what I was basing my comments on! What YOU said!!! So don't try and change your stroke in mid steam. What a "Don" maneuver on your part.

There are a few places in the Bible where Angels are referred to as "stars". Let me point out a few... and let me start with satan!!!

Isaiah 14:12 - “How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!”

Luke 10:18 - “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven”....

Revelation 9:1-11 Too long to inculde in my brief synopsis,,, but research "Abaddon" and "Apollyon"

Lest you forget WRM... satan was Jobs "accuser" even though satan had been throw out of heaven by this point. Yes... he was still granted access to GOD,,, but was only ALLOWED to persecute Job to the point GOD allowed... and the, (how do I say this in proper perspective with no dis-repect), poor suffering S-O-B remained faithful to GOD!!!!!!! Job was a TRUE testament to FAITH!!!!!! A better man than I am!!!

NOW... let's get back to the point of a third of the angels/"STARS" falling from Heaven... if I have in ANY way PROVED to you that the Bible references "stars" as "Angels"... being "fallen" or "heavenly"..... ,,,,,,,, ..... when the Book of Revelation talks about 1/3 of the stars "swept out of the sky" by the "dragons tail" and "falling to earth"... THAT is what points to the REVOLT of the angels mentioned in the Book of Revelation. Revelation chapter 12 would be the reference!!!!

As far as I'm concered bro,,, your either busted in your ignorance or deception... same as "Don-Ohio",,, so STOP playing games if you know better!!!
 
Nice to see you and I ACTUALLY debate what the Bible says WRM. I hold no hard feelings against you for what you show/present as a lack of faith. I see it as more of an open/honest debate,,, as long as Biblical Scripture isn't "twisted" as "don-ohio" did.
 
There are a few places in the Bible where Angels are referred to as "stars". Let me point out a few... and let me start with satan!!!
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well, now we know what's out there and shines, and it isn't angels. i mean, come on, the bible was INSPIRED by god. surely it knew better.
they are stars, and galaxies. not angels. so how were they going to fall from the sky?(although some seen the planets as travellers. their names derive from ancient mythology)
actually, it sounds more like an eclipse. sun darkening, and the moon not giving light since the sun is on the other side.(i won't get into the fact that the moon has no light of it's own, which should have been another known fact. god knew, and told them WHAT to write. but we know how superstitious people can be. look at religion)

although the bible is irrelevent, as you haven't proven your god. as i said before, it's as relevant to the discussion as the bhagavad gita.
when you can up with something not out of the bibles little fake world and put up some compelling truth and fact, i'll rest my arguement with you, as you lead nowhere in your discussion.
you just don't get that the bible can't be used to make the case for god anymore than the harry potter series is a case for witchcraft and ghouls and goblins existance. (it's verifiable fiction)
when you actually come up with hard evidence in your proofs, i'll argue with you again.

maybe you can find heaven in the sky and take a picture. shouldn't be too far up, according to the bible. it only had to go higher than the skyscraper of the day.
stratusphere, troposphere? maybe the moon? that's alot farther than any tall tower.
next you'll be trying to tell me it's invisible, kinda like your imaginary friend.
 
Sometimes you're worthwhile to talk to even when we don't agree. And sometimes you simply spew snarky drivel.

KS
 
what's the point in arguing , if for now we can't know for sure what awaits us when we die
 
I think I said this back a while ago, but since this has been going on for a couple of years and it might not have even been in this thread, here goes:

You don't have to be a believer to catch this---it's just common sense/practical. If The story in the Bible is true, and I follow the 'Romans Road'---the series of verses in Romans that explains the Message of Salvation---and there's nothing to it, I'll have lived a more inclusive, loving life than will likely be true otherwise. Nothing worthwhile lost. BUT IF IT IS TRUE, I'll be welcomed by Christ. Not otherwise.

I DO believe, and can always summon up enough faith to equal the '...grain of mustard seed...' so by dint of constant effort I can do what I believe I should. That's enough for me.

I wish you well.

KS
 
and i have lived a life just as fulfilling as you ks, without the encumberance in my life. i don't know what to aspire to salvation means, as i don't need that to make the right choices.
my values overall are not really different than yours. although mine are higher than those who preach jesus and demand war. even though i'm pro choice, i'm more pro life than them.
religion has no monopoly on moral values.
because i don't believe in ancient mythology, makes me no less human.

point is there is no god as accorded any of the stories. it's just an impossibility so many could exist if any one was right.
never mind the impossibilities within the stories of any. i haven't yet seen anything in my life that i would call unnatural. or supernatural.
i need evidence to make choices, not ancient stories.
do you always make sure you're given the right change? or do you take it on faith. :)

i use a little sarcasm to make my point sometimes, as above post.
but that one wasn't directed for you.
take care ks.
 
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