God is Only a Theory

It's highly unlikely that a small malignant imp such as the worm will suddenly wake up and recognize the truth you present
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if it were truth, you could validate it. not just talk platitudes.

don'tknow said:
Think about that little parrot,Harm. It's why you are still alive. don'tknow :)^)
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no don'tknow, i'm alive because there is not a chance in hell it could ever happen, even though your book shows precedence(he's not a loving god as you present him. remember sodom and gomorrah, a little flood with noah. he's taken more life than created). it's because it's a fable as much as the rest of them.
all hail baphomet!:gr_hail::lol::lol:
as i said before don'tknow, whatever keeps your pecker up. besides viagra.
 
Anyone DRIVEN to diss someone else's beliefs needs help well beyond that which is available here.

KS
 
Yes,some people don't want help.You were right,Cammer. The little parrot acts wickedly. don-ohio
 
Yes,some people don't want help.You were right,Cammer.
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what help are you referring to? you have helped me with nothing don'tknow.
Anyone DRIVEN to diss someone else's beliefs needs help well beyond that which is available here.
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really. i think adults still believing in imaginary friends need help. poor lost bastards.
 
funny ks. i get the same feeling about you since you started replying.
how would you respond to someone telling you to read a book of fiction because they believe it's truth incarnate?
i ask for proof of the truth, and get told i'm lost. who's sneering at who?
put away your fake hurt there ks.
 
I suppose I've sneered at some of the stuff you've put out but I don't believe I've ever sneered at you as a person. You started this thread and and your title , itself, is a sneer. Your whole thrust seems to be, "Boy, are you dumb!"

KS
 
no, it's a view point you can argue against.
i've sneered at no-one as a person, only as what their viewpoint is, just as you have.i've never met and don't know you.
when you actually put reason to the equation religion falls apart.
while there might be a philosophical arguement for a creator, yours and don'tknows should heve physical evidence in favour of it. yet, there's nothing. all you have is a book. same as any other religion. a book and a tradition with it.
believing from a book with no evidence is the part that is stupid ks. running around telling everyone it's absolute truth even stupider.
when you have something to actually validate yours as being the truth and not one of the other hundreds to choose from, then come back and discuss this further.

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I just read this entire thread and I have arrived at several conclusions.

1. It seems very unlikely that this topic can be debated with the dignity and civility a subject of this magnitude requires. This is probably due to the anonymity of the contributors. People are more likely to be rude when there are no real consequences.

2. Neither side can prove their theory conclusively.

3. Being anything less than absolutely civil degrades the value of your opinion.

4. Just because you can't or won't agree with your debater's position does not mean you
can not benefit from the exchange even if only to better understand why you disagree.

5. We all rely on each other and should attempt to maximize our contributions to the
common good and minimize our damage to the same.

6. Nobody has to be right. Nobody has to win. We can all benefit from merely weighing
merits of each others argument and simply rethinking our own position without
necessarily changing it but merely being open to the possibility.
 
2. Neither side can prove their theory conclusively.
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mountains of evidence compared to a work of fiction is hardly an inconclusive arguement.
take away science, the default is still nothing.
you have to brain wash yourself to arrive at any other conclusion.
else the default would be 1 god, 1 belief. you have 3 different abrahamic beliefs alone. (and branches of them. they can't all be right)
so, no, you're wrong. the evidence does exist to make such a decision. it's whether you believe fact or fiction. reality or myth.

and ks, i have faith. it doesn't make me believe in imaginary friends. nor have trust in them. if your faith makes you believe in imaginary things, then maybe you should question it.
 
Easy there hrmwrm. You do not even know where I stand on this subject. How can you say I am wrong if you do not even know the basic premise I align with? While there may be mountains of evidence, the theory (on both sides) remains unproven. Your absolute disrespect of any position but your own weakens your credibility. Of the six separate points I made, you chose only one to contend with. By that action alone your motives become a little suspect to me. You appear to be taking a very general subject very personally. On a personal note for me, my favorite part of scientific theory is the requirement to challenge every theory as rigorously as possible. That is also my least favorite part of most religions which require unquestioning faith. I feel faith would be strengthened under rigorous scrutiny just as science is. Truth is truth no matter where it comes from.
 
Easy there hrmwrm. You do not even know where I stand on this subject. How can you say I am wrong if you do not even know the basic premise I align with?
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where you align is irrelevent. one side has proof, the many others are thousands of work of fiction.
you are doing the same as the people who argue in defense. they are taking only THEIR god in the arguement. if one is valid, they all are.(never mind which christian is the right one. how many denominations.50? 100?they can't all be right)
until you can prove one true, they are all myth. hercules, zeus, allah, yaweh, god, baphomet, flying spaghetti monster, krishna, etc.
i don't disrespect any other position, i ask for the proof. that's not being disrespectful.
is it wrong to ask to see something that someone is trying to sell you?
my favorite part of scientific theory is the requirement to challenge every theory as rigorously as possible.
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yes, i think so too. but god isn't a theory, and stands up to no tests. BELIEF is not quantifiable.
 
Actually, large parts of the Bible are history and match well with other sources. Your sneer, ...'work of fiction'..., says everything about your point of view and your approach to this subject,and the others posting here.

KS
 
because you may find corroboration of something like a war from other sources as well, doesn't mean the biblical account is accurate by any stretch of the imagination. nor does it mean it ever happened.
it just means they have incorporated the same tale in their myth.
it's largely thought the story of noah comes from when the babylonians ruled over the isrealites and they took the flood myth from the epic of gilgamesh.
but what explains the huge differences in the stories? only common point is a flood.
you can look into any myth and call it historical accuracy.
egypt "written in stone" history has no exodus of jews from in the bible. they do show up as a state about where palestine/isreal are now. (i think about 1200bce)
so, who's history is accurate? the 3200 year old account, or the 2000 year old account.

if you want to defend the history of the bible cammerfe, then make a case and show definitive proof of it. otherwise the history is only from the christian/biblical point of view of what is accurate.
first remember to take into account any tellings from other sources will be brought in to question the validity of your claim, even if YOU think the other account is myth. any accounts are valid until YOU can prove them wrong.

take the flood myth above. you'll have to find definitive evidence it happened first, then also that it was noah. since i've found a different version than yours, which is just as believable.
just like the magic of a child who believes in santa claus. it only exists as long as you believe in it.
when you stop "believing", you realize it never was.
 
Here is the thing hrmwrm. As I see it even if all of your points are unquestionably correct, your delivery is somewhat condescending and defensive. In your opinion, no religion has any merit but you act like you must prove it. Nobody is going to change their core belief structure from any single conversation. Nobody who feels they are being dismissed or disrespected is going to consider the point of view of the dismissive disrespectful person. If you really want to change someone's mind you must speak to them as a friend not an adversary. That way you can have many conversations. It is nearly impossible to change your enemies' mind. Do not make enemies out of people you are trying to help. I have never had a religious group or person approach me and tell me how stupid I am for not following their religion. Hrmwrm is not the only guilty party here. For the believers in this thread I have seen some pretty hostile responses if not flat out rude. We all need each other. That is how society works. To make it work well we all need to treat the people we disagree with just as well as those we align with. We may not want to hang out with these people but we can at least be cordial when our paths do cross.
 
You do a really good job of pouring 'oil on troubled waters'. The problem is that this sort of discussion has been going on here for something more than five years. Most of the willingness, at least on my part, to remain serene in the face of snarkiness has long ago eroded away.

You DO bring a bit of lightness---it's much appreciated.

KS
 
Thanks KS. I had an interesting encounter today that makes my point well. I was in a tight, busy, crowded parking lot in my massive F550 truck. When I park I must not only find a big enough space but one that I can not be trapped in by a vehicle that arrives after me. This basically requires me to park only in end spaces so I can't be boxed in on all sides or to use spaces in line with the lane so I can move far away from neighboring cars before I have to turn or take up multiple spaces. So I have found my spot and I am patiently waiting with my signal on for the occupant to vacate it. In the 15 seconds it took another vehicle came meandering from the opposite direction and swooped right in while talking on his cell phone. I pulled up next to him and honked a few times to get his attention. He rolled down his window and asked "Did I do something wrong?" to which I calmly replied "Not really but I was waiting for that spot and unlike you my options are limited". He asked if I wanted him to move to which I replied "If you don't mind". He did and that was that. We ran back into each other on the way into the bank and I expressed my gratitude and he apologized for not paying attention to what he was doing. A rare perfect encounter. That is how society is supposed to run! On any other day he or I may have had a much different response related to our respective moods or situation. I am a 6'4" 300lb very menacing looking man. I also admit I have been much less patient about such minor offenses to me even in the recent past and I am sure he has been less cordial once or twice in his life as well. The point is what else could we have done? Screamed at each other with the only result be we are now both angry and treating other people worse due to our agitated state. Fight and possibly get hurt, killed or arrested? We achieved the best possible outcome through civility and mutual respect. By conducting ourselves like friends instead of adversaries.
 
Sure it was at that moment but not always. My and most other people's default setting is d1ck when someone is wronging us or being perceived as wronging us. Why would we react nice when we are being screwed? Because of potential better outcomes. We never learn. Someone cuts us of and we lay on the horn and flip them off, then they brake check us and it will just escalate up and up unless someone concieciously decides not too. The funny thing is most of the time that aggression is for nothing. Did they cut you off on purpose or just not see you? Had you left your blinker on by accident? Did you mindlessly drift into their lane a ways back and not even know so now they are actually retaliating? Most people do not intentionally wrong others but we have no patience to find out why before we retaliate. It takes a concious effort not to react to situations but to analyze and control them. The older I get the better I am but I still have my moments just like every one else.
 
Hrm wrote: `just like the magic of a child who believes in santa claus. it only exists as long as you believe in it.
when you stop "believing", you realize it never was. ' End quote.

Too bad you don't realize this applies WAY more to evolution,where the universe had to come from nothing.
The Bible gives the explanation,where everything came from,who did it, and why.
Believe that matter came from nothingness, evolution man, or believe that the VAST POWER in the universe was created by a timeless and unlimited being that will soon rid earth of its woes. don-ohio :)^)
 
technically dono, evolution has nothing to do with how the universe started.
there's a logical problem with your theory. just as the universe can't come from nothing, so too god can't come from nothing.
you can't say he's always been and that's the end of the arguement.

and as i said before dono, even if you throw out scientific ideals, YOUR god is not the default. there are thousands of other stories that could be right.
never mind the couple hundred different christian denominations around the world.
and why is judaism still around? wasn't christ's coming the new deal with god?
it makes no sense dono. even the muslim and jehovah stories don't agree your superstar(jesus) is god. there is some serious disagreement amongst the abrahamic religions.
not to be condescending, but come back when you can figure it out dono. come back when you can show me your version is truth.
you can't use the bible to prove your version.

and bobsquatch, i have no problem with religion as a general rule, except where it infringes on my right of choice. like prayer in the public school, creationism, and other religious crap being pushed on the public.
if i wanted religious law, i'd move to religiously controlled society.
what you want to do at your place of worship and in your home is fine by me. but keep it to your effin self. some of us don't give a hump. and don't come knocking on my door wanting to share your crap. religious door to door soliciting should be banned with huge penalties.
it's why i argue this topic vehemently.
those are my sentiments.
 
You are still laying on the disrespect pretty thick there hrmwrm. I am not the etiquette police but if I was trying to change minds, we have already discussed a better way. Then again when we have made up our minds we all have less patience for the opposition. If we are all fixed permanently in our unmovable position, why discuss it? The only reason is childish grandstanding. Na na na na na, I'm right, your wrong, everybody look at me! Then the popularity contest begins and the winners bully the loser. It is human nature. However as I previously stated we can all rise above our default settings to think and speak in a measured humble way and we might all learn something. To get along if nothing else.
hrmwrm, like it or not we do live in a country based on religious law. The USA is just more tolerant of less popular religions than most. I totally agree with you that this is a bad thing and that religion should be completely separate from government. My Christian friends do not like to hear that but I remind them that Christians have the majority by a wide margin now but what if that changes? How would we feel if Atheists or Muslims or ... gain control over the next hundred years or so? I bet if the government required my children to be taught anything against my beliefs in school or based national goals and political decisions on a belief i do not align with I would not be happy. We must all learn to remove ourselves from decisions that affect everyone, not just people that think like we do. We have the capability but do we have the will?
 
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