God is Only a Theory

don-ohio said:
Well,at least some people got to see how the Bible had the correct scientific facts recorded hundreds even more than a thousand or two years BEFORE scientists ever figured it out(if they read the posts).
Even though that was lost on Hrm, it was not lost on any clear-thinking, truth seeking individuals. So it was worth the time. don-ohio :)^)
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reality just passes you by don'tknow.
enjoy your ignorance.
i've shown you the problem with biblical truth, but real truth is lost on you.
but if it makes you happy, and you keep away from me with your bs, i don't give a crap.
burn another cross. i don't care. or sacrifice a lamb. what ever you crazy people do.


keep your crap out of the laws and my life.
do that, and i won't worry about how many of your virgins you throw in a volcanoe. :)
 
OHHH... What the heck,,,

Wrm,

It seems you have studied the science behind evolution enough,,, to be familiar with its beliefs. Why not do the same for the Bible? When a person understands both sides of a debate, they are more likely to be listened to. Snotty attitudes don't help your position either. I'm just sayin...

To add to Don's thoughts about the moon, (a solar eclipe is non consequential)... The moon is EXACTLY the proper size, weight, mass, etc. ,,, to have beneficial effects on the earth. It's elliptical orbit is what gives the earth its seasons. Without the moon,,, there would be know life on earth. Chalk one up for science... and "Intelligent Design".

Now why is the moon moving away from the earth??? Maybe because as we burn off fossil fuels,,, the earth loses weight/mass... and has less gravitational pull on the moon. It's just a theory... and I'm no scientist.

You forgot a quote in your sig:

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein

Now,,, as far as their being no proof the Bible is true... you may want to do some research.

Archeology, (SCIENCE), continues to prove many parts of the Bible true. On top of that,,, we have ancient civilizations,,, that have recorded their history... and parts of that history have backed up sections of what the Bible says. Ever heard of Egypt??? If a person were to do further study,,, they would find that some things mentioned in the Bible,,, are still happening today.

Ever taken enough time to read the Bible... to be familiar with the Israelites escape from egypt? At one point,,, the Bible mentions "manna falling from Heaven". In the Middle East,,, there is a particular tree,,, that is bored into by a particular insect. This causes the tree to crust over with sap,,, and it eventually falls to the ground. The Bedouin people in the Middle east,,, melt this sap down... and drink it. This is happening today,,, not thousands of years ago. It is sweet like honey,,, just as the Bible desribes. Chalk another up for science... and "Intelligent Design"... and the Bible.

In the same part of the Bible... the Israelites followed a cloud by day,,, and a pillar of fire by night. What can do both of these things??? Maybe a volcano??? Chalk another one up for science... and "Intelligent Design"... and the Bible.

Now... let's look at evolution for a moment. I've read Darwin's "Origin of Species"... or at least as much of it as I could stomach. My biggest problem with the whole theory... if true... is why don't we STILL see monkeys at different evolutionary stages,,, gradually becoming men. Evolution is supposedly a continuing process isn't it??? So that means we should still be seeing life in different stages... right??? So I guess evolution stopped at some point then. If evolution stopped,,, then evolution, (a continual process by definition), proves that evolution isn't happening... and never did.

Adaptation may be a better word to use... because everything has to adapt to it's environment,,, or go extinct. Adaptation is more than a theory,,, because it's proven, (unlike evolution). Chalk one more... up to science... and "Intelligent Design".
 
sorry to sound harsh, but i get tired of religion using it's texts, which have changed through the centuries, as proof of their god.
if it was obvious, all would believe 1. yet the majority( big majority) don't believe in the one(god) being argued here. (never mind the other versions of this one, or the 100 or whatever flavours of this religion.)
to actually get outside and look in at it is to revel in the absurdity of it.

if someone wants a reasonable logical converse then come in.
true. we don't know the beginning. i'm not debating that.
but extrodinary claims require extrodinary evidence, and i'm still waiting.
no philosophical wordy crap, just good factual evidence that would stand up in court at least.

(writing while you were. i'll reply later.)
 
when viewed from a christian perspective, when things are found archeologically, you have a tendency to use it as the guide without proving it's history valid.
i suggest you read back about the philological arguements. the bible keeps re-writing itself. religious texts have come and gone through history.
you should read the book of enoch and see if you still believe. it's used to this day in some orthodox teachings. explain away the flat earth view.
christianity jettisoned it's most absurd parts through the years as they stopped believing it.

and 04, if you read back at the philological arguements, written in egypts stone is a history that outdates the family of the bible, never mind that it existed before and after and during noahs flood. ain't that a hoot.
the jewish state doesn't appear until about 1200bc in egypts history. and egypt has no record for a mass exodus.
but, thanks for trying.

you are doing the religious thing, trying to put down science. i'm not using science to argue against the plausibilty of god.
i'm asking you to factually prove the plausibility of your god beyond doubt.
science has credibilty and evidence in it's favour though over the supernatural. but like i said, i'm not argueing science here.

the whole point of the first post is to point out the absudity of religion trying to deny science.
even without science, it isn't a credible idea. the fact of 1000's of religions over the centuries would lead one to believe none can be true.
if only 1 were true, it would be the oldest, and only.
 
really? an apologist? as i said, hard evidence. not a sermon. i'd start, but it's an hour of my life i won't get back and i prefer not to waste it.
as i've said before, philosophy without evidence is theology.
philosophy with evidence is science.
thanks for trying again.
 
Wrm,

I don't believe in religion. Religion is man made. I believe in God. I don't see the bible re-writing itself. I'm not putting down science... in fact I'm using science to prove what I am saying. I have read parts of the book of Enoch,,, but it's very dry. I am however,,, familiar with "The Watchers"... and I have my own theories on who they were/are.

Egyptian history may not give proof of the Exodus, (why would they want to admit that)... however,,, the name of King David is mentioned, and his defeat by the Egyptians. The Bible actually is a history book if read properly,,, which includes reading Jewish records, (something I am unable to do).

In a sense you are arguing science,,, because of your support for evolution... and I don't see religion denying science. Just absurd theories... that deny any posssibility of "Intelligent Design". Is it possible that the earth is actually millions of years old??? Yes,,, but either way... God formed the earth and everything else,,, so I don't worry about the details. That's not me sticking my head in the sand,,, it's just me thinking there are other things more important. I figure someday I'll find out.

Despite what you may think or know,,, the first books of the Bible, Torah, and Koran... pretty much read the same and have the same history. The division between those faiths come with the births of Isaac and Ishmael, and who is "firstborn".

I will admit that I don't know how far back Egypt's history is recorded. But it appears that the Garden of Eden was in ancient Mesopotamia... several thousand years before any recorded history of the Israelites.

I won't deny that Christianity had it's dark ages,,, but I think from the perspective of science,,, most people have moved past that.

I do believe in the Big Bang Theory. It happend when God said: "Let There Be Light". Funny how science has proven that the universe came from one central point in an explsion. Chalk another one up for Science and "Intelligent Design".
 
A simple Google search:

"In the Book of Enoch, the Watchers (Aramaic עִירִין, iyrin) are angels dispatched to Earth to watch over the humans. They soon begin to lust for human women and, at the prodding of their leader Samyaza, defect en masse to illicitly instruct humanity and procreate among them."


This is far from how the watchers are portrayed in the movie: "Indiana Jones and the Kindom of the Crystal Skull". I don't blame the movie version on religion. I blame it on humanity chasing after false ideas, (such as evolution),,, and walking away from God. My biggest problem with evolution,,, is that people use it to say we come from nothing... so therefore there is no God. My above statements are not based on any religious paltitude. They are based on FAITH... and that FAITH is based on the TRUTH of what the Bible says and teaches.


However... the description of the watchers sounds kinda familiar. Let's see... hmmm,,, where can that be found??? OH... THAT'S RIGHT,,, THE BIBLE!!!

Genesis 6:1-4

1Then the people began to multiply on the earth, and daughters were born to them. 2The sons of God saw the beautiful women and took any they wanted as their wives. 3Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not put up with humans for such a long time, for they are only mortal flesh. In the future, their normal lifespan will be no more than 120 years.” 4In those days, and for some time after, giant Nephilites lived on the earth, for whenever the sons of God had intercourse with women, they gave birth to children who became the heroes and famous warriors of ancient times.


Read Daniel chapter 4 for a parallel,,, and check the footnotes.

http://biblehub.com/nlt/daniel/4.htm

Which translation do you want Wrm??? Because they all pretty much say the same thing. Worded slightly different... but with the same meaning.
 
The watchers,or angels,in the book of GENESIS,not the unaccepted Enoch(which is never quoted in other writings in the Bible), were followers of the Devil's way of selfish desire. Enoch is not the writer of the “Book of Enoch.” This is an uninspired, apocryphal book written many centuries later, probably sometime during the second and first centuries*B.C.E.

The watcher,or angel,in Daniel was following God's command to cut down the tree for seven times.

This was to signify the smaller fulfillment of Nebuchadnezzar's impending madness, and the larger fulfillment of the start of the rule of the Gentiles in 607 B.C., to their end when God's Kingdom returned to rule.
This is what Jesus referred to when he said `Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Nations until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled'. This would be a period of over 2500 years.
don-ohio :)^)
 
Don, you still didn't answer as to the number of angels who can dance on the head of a pin. People are awaiting enlightenment!

KS
 
Cammer.....I think that question would be best answered by someone who cares.LOL! don-ohio :)^)
 
Yeah... and that's what satan wants us to focus on. Majoring in minors. I'm with you CAM,,, but don't pick nits with Don. You will only prove Wrm right. Treat this thread,,, as a final exam term paper... on validating the existance of God,,, as though you were in seminary school. Before we are done... this whole thing could turn into an LDS vs JW debate. Just forwarning you CAM, (and I am in neither camp).

However... I will say Don... that your interprtation of Daniel 4,,, is a little bit off. You said in post #113: "The watcher,or angel,in Daniel was following God's command to cut down the tree for seven times."

Don... That may be what you're NW translation says, (or how you interpret it)... but actually, (according to most mainstream Christian translations),,, the Watcher was warning Nebuchadnezzar in a dream... of what was to come. Daniel properly interpreted the dream,,, and warned of what would happen to his king, (at the time... briefly). In the end,,, king Nebuchadnezzar learned who GOD IS... and that is the point of the story. END OF DISCUSSION!!!
 
Chapter 17

1 And they took and brought me to a place in which those who were there were like flaming fire,

2 and, when they wished, they appeared as men. And they brought me to the place of darkness, and to a mountain the point of whose summit reached to heaven. And I saw the places of the luminaries and the treasuries of the stars and of the thunder and in the uttermost depths, where were

4 a fiery bow and arrows and their quiver, and a fiery sword and all the lightnings. And they took

5 me to the living waters, and to the fire of the west, which receives every setting of the sun. And I came to a river of fire in which the fire flows like water and discharges itself into the great sea towards

6 the west. I saw the great rivers and came to the great river and to the great darkness, and went

7 to the place where no flesh walks. I saw the mountains of the darkness of winter and the place

8 whence all the waters of the deep flow. I saw the mouths of all the rivers of the earth and the mouth of the deep.

Chapter 18

1 I saw the treasuries of all the winds: I saw how He had furnished with them the whole creation

2 and the firm foundations of the earth. And I saw the corner-stone of the earth: I saw the four

3 winds which bear [the earth and] the firmament of the heaven. And I saw how the winds stretch out the vaults of heaven, and have their station between heaven and earth: these are the pillars

4 of the heaven. I saw the winds of heaven which turn and bring the circumference of the sun and

5 all the stars to their setting. I saw the winds on the earth carrying the clouds: I saw the paths

6 of the angels. I saw at the end of the earth the firmament of the heaven above. And I proceeded and saw a place which burns day and night, where there are seven mountains of magnificent stones,

7 three towards the east, and three towards the south. And as for those towards the east, was of coloured stone, and one of pearl, and one of jacinth, and those towards the south of red stone.

8 But the middle one reached to heaven like the throne of God, of alabaster, and the summit of the

9,10 throne was of sapphire. And I saw a flaming fire. And beyond these mountains Is a region the end of the great earth: there the heavens were completed. And I saw a deep abyss, with columns of heavenly fire, and among them I saw columns of fire fall, which were beyond measure alike towards

12 the height and towards the depth. And beyond that abyss I saw a place which had no firmament of the heaven above, and no firmly founded earth beneath it: there was no water upon it, and no

13 birds, but it was a waste and horrible place. I saw there seven stars like great burning mountains,

14 and to me, when I inquired regarding them, The angel said: 'This place is the end of heaven and earth: this has become a prison for the stars and the host of heaven. And the stars which roll over the fire are they which have transgressed the commandment of the Lord in the beginning of

16 their rising, because they did not come forth at their appointed times. And He was wroth with them, and bound them till the time when their guilt should be consummated (even) for ten thousand years.'
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a little of enoch, and why it lost appeal to christian doctrine. i didn't need all of it to prove my point, but i don't like to disappoint shag.:)


I can give you evidence,
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,

well, i'll await it then. how poor could it be if you have to put up a caveat. evolution is not a part of my arguement, just an example of an ideal that can prove itself. no magic man, poof it's done. just a natural flowing order provided there aren't too many disasters along the way.
as i said, throw it out, and your imaginary friend doesn't become the default either. you have to be brain washed into believing it.
people want to believe that you believe in this thing and pay it tribute, personally, physically, whatever, and you'll be fine in the after life.
if you know of egypt, you'd know it was a large part of their economy too. give em a story, tell em it's true and make it a governing ideal, and you can do anything in the name of it.
isn't that the real bull sh!t. people used the bible to justify slavery.

roll your evidence out. he's supernatural, capable of anything, so it must be good. nothing he can't do. maybe he'll finally strike me dead if i'm wrong. :) ( i have absolutely no fear of writing those words. may god strike me daad if i'm wrong. i know nothing could ever, or would ever happen.)
 
don-ohio said:
The watchers,or angels,in the book of GENESIS,not the unaccepted Enoch(which is never quoted in other writings in the Bible), were followers of the Devil's way of selfish desire. Enoch is not the writer of the “Book of Enoch.” This is an uninspired, apocryphal book written many centuries later, probably sometime during the second and first centuries*B.C.E.

The watcher,or angel,in Daniel was following God's command to cut down the tree for seven times.

This was to signify the smaller fulfillment of Nebuchadnezzar's impending madness, and the larger fulfillment of the start of the rule of the Gentiles in 607 B.C., to their end when God's Kingdom returned to rule.
This is what Jesus referred to when he said `Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Nations until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled'. This would be a period of over 2500 years.
don-ohio :)^)
Click to expand...

no offence man, but tell some one who cares.
 
Wrm... in a previous post... you ask God to kill you if you were wrong, in your thinking,, and then say that because God didn't kill you... that you seemed to be right. Do you realize the Paradox and Paradigm of your thought process???

According to the Bible... God knew you before you were born, You were just a thought before you were made, "in your mothers womb". God is outside of space and time... so to declare yourself as nothing more than an "accident",,, is to deny the "Will of God". Even if you were to declare yourself as an Angel,,, (God given or rebellious by choice),,, you were brought into existance by GOD!!! Human or Divine...you owe your BE-ING to God!!!
 
04_Sport_LS said:
Wrm... in a previous post... you ask God to kill you if you were wrong, in your thinking,, and then say that because God didn't kill you... that you seemed to be right. Do you realize the Paradox and Paradigm of your thought process???

According to the Bible... God knew you before you were born, You were just a thought before you were made, "in your mothers womb". God is outside of space and time... so to declare yourself as nothing more than an "accident",,, is to deny the "Will of God". Even if you were to declare yourself as an Angel,,, (God given or rebellious by choice),,, you were brought into existance by GOD!!! Human or Divine...you owe your BE-ING to God!!!
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sure, says you. you have to believe in your bs for it to mean anything 04. otherwise, no. my logical arguement stands.
well, unless you can con your supernatural man into carrying out said determination. get your other christian brethern together and put out a huge prayer to strike hrmwrm dead to prove himself.. come on now. can't be that hard.
some supernatural way too. i mean a hired murderer isn't god, is it. bolt of lightening. i live in a stable area, how about by an earthquake. unleash a plague unto my house.
that's just funny thinking 04.
 
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