Happy holidays to everyone !!!

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You are wrong,Cammer.You have no scriptural foundation for saying that. YOU are not qualified to make that decision. It's a living human,just not born. You have swallowed the Kool-Aid of the abortionists. Put YOURSELF in that tiny life's place,Cammer.Think about life,not death for convenience. don -ohio :)^I

Quote Cammer:` lump of tissue that would fit in a match-box is so complete as to be of equal value to a baby several weeks after birth. Sorry guys, it just ain't so.'
 
A fetus is a human being, period. Human beings have many stages of growth. I fail to see why some people do not think that one stage is any less valuable than another. Really, the law does value all stages for all that the law allows for abortion, since the death of a pregnant woman will result in two murder charges. This is not a religious feeling either, as the Bible states that causing the death of an unborn child results in the killer paying fines, not in the killer being killed, back in a time when death was the penalty for most things. Dehumanizing the unborn results in the unborn going from being people to being considered an exploitable resource. From there, it's a small step from considering the unborn to be exploitable to people being exploited and what I'm talking about is breaking them down into spare parts, using them unwillingly as experiments, ect.

You want to consider convenience abortions as OK, the law currently allows that. I'm still going to consider it to be the worst kind of murder, where a mother kills her own child because she doesn't want the bother. Abortions should be used sparingly, for specific serious reasons only.
 
Actually Telco, Exodus 21:22 says that if the child is born prematurely without injury... the woman's husband decides the fines. Also that if any harm is done to the infant,,, the offender is punished according to the injury done to the baby. BUT, if the child is killed,,, then the offender is to be killed also.

Beyond that... I agree with you.

Heard a radio broadcast about a month ago, that interviewed an ex-employee of Planned Parenthood. They stated that as empoyees... the were encouaged to talk women into having abortions. IIRC... the person interviewed said that the local branch where they worked... was making $35,000 a month,,, just in doing abortions.
 
As far as rape goes,,, if the laws of the Old Testament were still in place in this country... I think there would be alot less rape!

Deuteronomy 22:25-27 says the following:

25“But if the man meets the engaged woman out in the country, and he rapes her, then only the man must die. 26Do nothing to the young woman; she has committed no crime worthy of death. She is as innocent as a murder victim. 27Since the man raped her out in the country, it must be assumed that she screamed, but there was no one to rescue her.

http://biblehub.com/nlt/deuteronomy/22.htm
 
When Dad was in the JAGD in WWII,in North Africa, he told me they had to hang a few soldiers for rape. don-ohio
 
cammerfe said:
In any discussion of this sort of topic, it's necessary to look at it from all sides.

An acorn is not an oak tree and a non-viable fetus is not a person. In the case of a miscarriage, our society doesn't have a funeral complete with a cigar-size (or smaller) coffin. Due to science (science is created by God) the point of viability keeps moving and seems to be at about 22-24 weeks at present.

Those who would jam their ideas down the throats of all have taken to talking about an 'un-born child' and by inference try to suggest that a lump of tissue that would fit in a match-box is so complete as to be of equal value to a baby several weeks after birth. Sorry guys, it just ain't so.

You are welcome to your own beliefs but don't try to jam them down my throat. I've seen no sign that God's mad at me for thinking as I do.

And please don't think that my position advocates abortion. I don't!

KS
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A heartbeat can be detected at 18 days, well before the woman even knows she's pregnant. Just when does this "lump of tissue" (very often called an unviable mass of tissue) transform into a human being? Why that particular time? Fetus is Latin for "little one." They had no confusion over whether the baby was a human being or not.

Pro-abortionists will twist the facts any which way they can to justify their position.
 
I made the mistake of offering an opinion to those who stand completely on emotion. Next you'll tell me that every word in the Bible is of equal importance and that the only translation of the Bible that's valid is King James.

KS
 
It's NOT emotional................it is MORAL. It comes from the highest source of guidance for mankind's morality,the Holy Bible,God's truth.
No,not from me will you hear about not using other translations. In Daniel 12,the Bible says in THE LAST DAYS man will find out and the truth will be plentiful. (paraphrased)
So since the KJ Bible was done in 1611,we cannot say it is a perfect translation. don-ohio :)^)
 
No Cammer,,, you made no mistake in offering an opinion... but Don is right when he says it's not about emotion.

As far as the Bible,,, every word IS of equal importance,,, because if some things are misunderstood in translation... parts of the Bible can be taken waaaay out of context.

As far as the KJV... it has it's flaws for use in todays world. We no longer speak in the Shakespearian english used centuries ago,,, and some of the words in the KJV aren't spelled the same today.

Take a look at Luke 21:11,,, Mark 13:8,,, and Matthew 24:7 in the KJV where it mentions earthquakes in "divers places". This appears to mean in the bottom of the sea/ocean.

However,,, the actual word is "diverse"... meaning "various" places. This gives the above verses a completely different meaning.

The same happens in Proverbs 20:10, and 20:23. Divers didn't use special weights in their trade that were an abomination. What these passages are talking about, (diverse weights),,, were about cheating someone. Back in the day,,, scales were used to measure everything,,, and prices were charged by the ounce or pound, (just like today). The dishonest "trader" would lighten the weights they used,,, so that a person got less than what they paid for.
 
Don,

Don't forget 2nd Timothy 4:3:

"For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear."

http://biblehub.com/nlt/2_timothy/4.htm

That is this day and age. Some people "church shop", until they find a church where they like what is being said... without knowing or understanding the actual TRUTH of what the Bible says.

A year ago,,, I left a church I attended for 16 years. The most recent pastor decided he found a better gospel called "universalism". During one of his last sermons I attended... the pastor said the Bible had contradictions, (pointing out one Gospel mentions 2 Angels at Jesus's tomb, and another Gospel only mentions one Angel). Sorry,,, but we don't all see or record things in our brain the same way. We all notice different details,,, so what he was saying didn't fly with me.

Then a little later in the same sermon,,, the pastor said that the Bible is still useful for instruction. This sounded familiar,,, so I did some diggingback then.

2nd Timothy 3:16-17 (NLT)

" 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. 17 God uses it to prepare and equip his people to do every good work."

So the pastor said the Bible is useful for instruction... but left out the first part where is says that ALL SCRIPTURE is inspired by God, (other translations say "God Breathed"). Funny, (odd), thing is... just a year before,,, the pastor did a sermon where he warned about people who take a single Bible verse, (or part of a verse), and twist it to validate what they are saying. A year later he was guilty of what he warned against.

Again, (and this includes some pastors):

"For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear."
 
Yes,all so true. We ARE in the last days as spoken of in Matt 24. Daniel 2 shows a stone cut from the Mountain(that's God's heavenly rulership) will strike the image of all the World rulerships,including our wicked nation which forms part of the toes, and they will become as chaff. What happens to that stone that struck the toes of the image? It becomes a large mountain and rules the earth.
We are living in the time where that Godly stone is on its way,figuratively. That will be the war of Armaggedon waged against the wicked nations on Earth. We know who will win THAT war. don-ohio :)^)
 
Thanks for the correction. I've not been to church in years mainly due to work. Thought I was going to be able to start attending again a few months ago, then they changed my shift again.
 
Study the Bible,Telco. The churches have a lot of misconceptions. The afterlife being one of the biggest misconceptions they have. The Trinity being another. Hell fire another.The immortal soul another. Many more,too.
You can't learn much in a church that doesn't have the basic theme of the Bible identified. don-ohio :)^)
 
The KJV is a TERRIBLE translation for many reasons, not the least of which is it isn't translated from the original languages. The best I've found are The Complete Jewish Bible, The New American Standard and The International Standard Version. At least they are translated from the original languages.
 
04_Sport_LS said:
That is this day and age. Some people "church shop", until they find a church where they like what is being said...
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to an extent, the same is true about the different off shoots of Christianity. over the centuries the religion keeps being split off as groups pull away from the main branch usually due to disagreements about what the bible actually means on something. even in the first century there were a few different versions of Christianity, now we have everything from the strict Catholic all the way down to those idiots that believe they are gods chosen ones because they didn't get bit this past Sunday. for most its not just about shopping for different churches, but often also to find a religion that they can actually live with.








sorry if I offended any snake handlers out there, but that is honestly just as stupid as believing that your "god" is going to reward you with some awesome afterlife because you killed a bunch of people on a bus along with yourself.
 
The passages at the end of the book of Mark are generally considered spurious because they do not appear in some of the oldest manuscripts. God does not require tests against vipers,only the spirit viper will test us if God permits. don-ohio :)^)
 
don-ohio said:
The passages at the end of the book of Mark are generally considered spurious because they do not appear in some of the oldest manuscripts. God does not require tests against vipers,only the spirit viper will test us if God permits. don-ohio :)^)
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i would seriously question those verses as they pretty much go against 1 Corinthians 10:9. For the snake question...
 
For those who believe that 'every word is of equal importance', please explain the way we should use Leviticus as it appertains to our daily life.

KS
 
cammerfe said:
For those who believe that 'every word is of equal importance', please explain the way we should use Leviticus as it appertains to our daily life.

KS
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It pertains as it shows that God is a God of detail and not chaos. The dietary laws were very important in a time where refrigeration was non-existent and those creatures posed serious health hazards if not prepared carefully. They also set Israel apart from the other nations. It teaches the importance of obedience. That was also the old covenant. Notice Peter's (Kefa's) vision in Acts 10.
 
LS4me,Your site you designate has a link and here is what I was pointing out,as to does the last part of Mark belong in the Bible?

`Although the vast majority of LATER(caps mine) Greek manuscripts contain Mark 16:9-20, the Gospel of Mark ends at verse 8 in two of the oldest and most respected manuscripts, the Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus.'

LS4me said:
i would seriously question those verses as they pretty much go against 1 Corinthians 10:9. For the snake question...
Click to expand...
 
The Law was a tutor leading to the Christ. It is to be respected and the prophecies in the Hebrew scriptures apply to today also, but the New Law Jesus gave replaced the Law. don-ohio :)^)
 
"but often also to find a religion that they can actually live with."

Loud... that right there hit the nail dead on the head.

To quote author C.S. Lewis from his book "The Problem of Pain" :

"We want, in fact, not so much a Father in Heaven as a grandfather in heaven- a senile benevolence who, as they say, liked to see young people enjoying themselves’, and whose plan for the universe was simply that it might be truly said at the end of each day, ‘a good time was had by all’. . . ."
 
Yes,generally churchgoers are fitting into the predicted pattern at II Timothy 4: verses 3 and 4 `There is coming a time when they will not abide the healthful teachings,but along with their desires,they gather teachers for their own to have their ears tickled. 4 and they ignore with their ears the TRUTH ,but are turned aside by fanciful stories.'
This is the case today in large part. Pay their tithes, make contributions, but give no regard to the theme of the Bible,which Jesus said to pray for always. don-ohio :)^)
 
Cammer,

To build on what LS4 is saying...

Leviticus is the book that gives us the 10 ommandments, (not the movie :) ). If a person were to look at them beyond face value,,, they would notice that if they broke any of 2-9... they automatically break commandment #1. How? If a person breaks any of 2-9,,, they are commiting some form of self worship, (making themself more important than God), by putting their own desires before God's.

Continuing... let's look at Leviticus 18 for a moment.
- Don't have sex with mom
- Don't have sex with sis
-Don't have sex with auntie
-Don't have sex with your grand daughter

and so on and so on. Why? Not only is it incest,,, but many times a child born of this type of "union" has some form of devlepmental problems.

- Don't have sex with animals

Beyond being gross,,, isn't this where some forms of STD's came from?

Leviticus 17 talks about drinking blood, or eating an animal not drained of it's blood when slaughtered

We now have the science to understand what bood born pathogens are. Why does Lev 17 say to cover the blood of the slaughtered animal with earth? So it doesn't attract maggots and flies,,, spreading disease.

For some of the Feasts and Festivals in Lev 23,,, it would be best to talk to someone of the Jewish Faith for better understanding. However,,, the Passover Festival comes from what happened in Exodus 12... when all of the firstborn sons of Egypt were killed.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+12&version=CEV

Expanding past Leviticus for a moment,,, and building on Exodus 12 at the same time...

As things are told in Exodus 12,,, The Israelites were to kill a lamb,,, and spread the blood above the door of thier house... so that the Angel of death would PASS OVER their house,,, and the firstborn sons would be spared. Fast forward a couple thousand years to Jesus's execution. Jesus celebrated the Passover meal with his disciples,,, and was crucified sometime during the Passover celebration. I.E. Jesus became the Passover Lamb for all creation, so that any who believe in him will not suffer death, (beyond this earthly life).

Furthermore,,, if a person were to read the Gospel ac****s of Jesus's crucifixtion... they would find that it is stated that at the moment of the great earthquake... the temple curtain was tone in 2,,, FROM TOP TO BOTTOM!

Now... who tore the curtain? It was God!!! At the moment Jesus died on the cross as the TRUE Passover Lamb,,, God gave all of us free accces to Him... without having to jump through hoops,,, or performa any special rituals. Moses was actually an example, (forshadowing), of what was to come years later when Jesus died on the cross. I will give the Scripture references to this at another time,,, but it's getting late and I have to get up early.

However,,, It is stated in Exodus that Moses talked to God,,, "face to face as a friend". We all now have the same access to God that moses did... and God is our friend, (if we let him be our friend).

https://www.google.com/webhp#q=Moses+talked+to+God+face+to+face+as+a+friend

Shalom
 
Holy cow, it's a bunch of LS driving preachers! I repent, the LS is a fine car, really!

On a more serious note, I don't know the Bible nearly as well as I should, but I figure as long as I know God's there and Jesus died for my sins, I ought to be OK. I can't help but think there's a God either, every time I watch a sunset.
 
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