sKerry appears to have cheated during the debate

i'll get the transcript for you. In the mean time, here is some more to chew on...



Here's Krauthammer on Kerry:
It is hard to see what Kerry has to offer beyond biography. The issue of our time is the war on terrorism. Bush's strategy throws out the old playbook on terrorism - the cops-and-robbers, law-and-order strategy of arrest and trial followed by complacency - and takes the war to the enemy. Kerry says terrorism is "primarily an intelligence and law-enforcement operation" - precisely the misconception that had us waking up on Sept. 12 realizing that while the enemy was preparing for war, we were preparing legal briefs for grand juries.

And where did Kerry stand on the most critical national-security questions of the past two decades? In 1991 he voted against the Gulf War, which he now says he was in favor of. Twelve years later, he voted in favor of the Iraq war, which he now tells us he was against. Then he voted against the $87 billion for reconstruction and troop support while telling us that of course he supports both the reconstruction and the troops.

War hero he is. But a man of so many pirouettes hardly inspires confidence as a resolute President. That should not surprise us. The very idea that national service, even heroic service, necessarily correlates with great presidential leadership is simply irrational.

Read the whole thing.





Here's Steyn on Kerry.
The only relevant lesson from Vietnam is this: then, as now, it was not possible for the enemy to achieve military victory over the US; their only hope was that America would, in effect, defeat itself. And few men can claim as large a role in the loss of national will that led to that defeat as John Kerry. A brave man in Vietnam, he returned home to appear before Congress and not merely denounce the war but damn his "band of brothers" as a gang of rapists, torturers and murderers led by officers happy to license them to commit war crimes with impunity. He spent the Seventies playing Jane Fonda and he now wants to run as John Wayne.

Vietnam was a "war of choice". But, once you chose to go in, there was no choice but to win. America's failure of will had terrible consequences. The Seventies - the Kerry decade - was the only point in the Cold War in which the eventual result seemed in doubt. The Communists seized real estate all over the globe, in part because they calculated that the post-Vietnam, Kerrified America would never respond. In the final indignity, when the proto-Islamist regime in Teheran seized the embassy hostages, they too shrewdly understood how thoroughly Kerrified America was. It took Mrs Thatcher's Falklands war and Reagan's liberation of Grenada to reverse the demoralisation of the West that Kerry did so much to advance.

Senator Kerry has done a good job of enlarging himself but the reality is simple: George W Bush's America has won two swift wars and overthrown two enemy regimes; John Kerry was heroic in a war that America lost and whose loss he celebrated. Since then he's been a model lack-of-conviction politician. The question for anyone who thinks Kerry has "credibility" on national security is a simple one: who do you think Iran, North Korea, Syria, al-Qa'eda's Saudi paymasters and the rogue elements in Pakistan's ISI would prefer to see elected this November?

Answer: John Kerry. Which is Reason Number One to vote against him.
 
I was going to post bits and pieces but I think it would be worthwhile for everybody to read it.



When you are finished, I think you will see the odds similarities to our 'war on terror'. The wrong war, wrong place. etc. etc. Pretty sCARY coming from Mr. sKERRY. And this is the guy that 1/2 the country wants to elect to continue the most important war we have ever faced...

http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=Testimony
 
I read the transcript thouroughly and I can't understand your view. What John Kerry did in 1970 took great courage. I would have done the same thing had I been in his shoes.

I also read that John Kerry has the same views today as he had back then. I don't think that you should be questioning his consistancy.

Let's talk about today. I believe that the war in Iraq is wrong on the same level as Vietnam was in 1970. We went in for the wrong reason. I was hoping for a solution that didn't require violence, but I stood with the President when he made the final decision. I was glued to my television for weeks, hoping for a seizure of WMD. I wanted to feel justified in putting my faith in our Commander-In-Chief. I was miserably disappointed. I lost faith.

Now that there appears to be no WMD the POTUS wants us all to think that Iraq needed a preemptive strike because Saddam "could" have reconstituted his WMD programs "if" the sanctions were relaxed. Saddam's new crime is perverting the Oil for Food program. I don't think that those are good enough reasons to put our men and women in harm's way.

The President's accusations that "Kerry voted for it too" and "He saw the same intelligence" are about as lame as it gets. The intellegence was disseminated from the POTUS to Congress, not the other way around.

I really wish I could see your point of view, but I can't. We'll have to agree to disagree.
 
barry2952 said:
I also read that John Kerry has the same views today as he had back then. I don't think that you should be questioning his consistancy.
It is his consistency that is the problem. Go read his book, the new war. I'll even send you an email of it because Kerry refuses to let the book be republished but I have a copy of it. He wants to fight the terror war the same way he fought the Vietnam war. By backing into it because he was forced to and then retreating as soon as he could.

I can't believe you read that and come out with that conclusion. Great courage... my a$$. Anybody can turn traitor like Kerry did. Anybody can collude with the enemy and provide aid and comfort to that same enemy. The Communist North Koreans spent more money in the US recruiting weaklings like Kerry than they did prosecuting their own war.

Kerry said only 4000-5000 additional people would be killed if the US backed out. The reality was that an additional 5000-6000 US troops died and an additional 2,000,000 -3,000,000 South Vietnamese, Cambodians and Laosians were also killed.

And then you have the nerve to be upset about losing 1,000 US soldiers, less than 750 in combat; to defend against the most terrifying weapons on this planet getting into the wrong hands.

I would like to see the country split up. All conservatives and Republicans can move west of the Mississippi, and all you liberal crack heads and Democrats can have east of the Mississippi. We get the military to defend us and you guys can use John Kerry and the UN to defend yourself. Deal?




Like Bush has said. The terrorists only need to be right ONCE. We need to be right everytime. Just wait till we get attacked again. I guarantee all you lefties will be bitching and whining about why we didn't do anything about it.
 
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Bryan,
When the country gets split, republicans can have all the factory farms too!!!

Environmental Hogwash
By Christopher D. Cook
In These Times

Friday 10 October 2004

The EPA works with factory farms to delay regulation of 'Extremely Hazardous Substances.'

Chicken has taken on a whole new meaning for Faye Lear, of White Plains, in western Kentucky, who lives 300 feet from two giant barns containing thousands of birds laying eggs for Tyson Foods.

There are the sickening wafts of ammonia and bird feather dust that chase her inside from her front porch. Clouds of well-fed flies swarm her car windows. Once a year, when the barns are emptied for cleaning, mass infestations of mice overrun the neighborhood.

"It's like an open sewer for a big city," says Lear, who works as a nurse. "It's nauseating, it burns your eyes. I wouldn't call them a farm-they're like an industry."

Across the country, thousands of these "factory farms"-each warehousing thousands of tightly confined hogs, chickens or cows-produce potentially toxic air emissions. These fumes are the byproduct of 1.3 billion tons of waste created annually by the sprawling compounds, which are the top polluters of America's waterways according to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA).

Despite this torrent of manure, and a growing number of lawsuits by sickened neighbors, "there are essentially no pollution controls on these operations whatsoever," says Sierra Club attorney Barclay Rogers. "The environment is being wrecked by these operations."

But the EPA isn't ready to stanch this stench anytime soon. According to documents obtained by the Sierra Club through a Freedom of Information Act request, the EPA has developed a voluntary air monitoring program in close collaboration with animal-industry groups such as the National Pork Producers Council (NPPC) and the US Poultry and Egg Association. (The cattle industry chose not to participate.)

The plan, still being hashed out internally at the agency "resolves [participating companies'] civil liability for potential violations" of federal clean air laws. In effect, this would mean a two-year amnesty from enforcement of the Clean Air Act-as well as immunity from federal Superfund and environmental right-to-know laws. During this time, some of the nation's largest pig and chicken facilities would gather air emissions data. Only later could they be penalized for exceeding the emmissions limits for ammonia and hydrogen sulfide.

Environmentalists are up in arms. "The exchange of data for prosecutorial immunity is antithetical to the notion of aggressive environmental enforcement," says Rogers.

"These [poultry] operations are generating extraordinary quantities of ammonia gas," says Rogers. Ammonia gas is listed as an "Extremely Hazardous Substance" in the Superfund law and is a key contributor to particulate matter pollutants. Indeed, EPA researchers have found that "animal husbandry operations" are responsible for 73 percent of all ammonia released into the air nationwide.

In 2001, EPA inspectors detected disturbingly high releases of ammonia from Buckeye Egg Farm in Ohio, then the nation's fourth-largest egg producer. Some Buckeye facilities were churning out 700-800 tons of particulate matter per year-far in excess of the federal air-quality reporting standard of 250 tons. After years of enforcement battles begun under the Clinton administration, the EPA this past February secured a Clean Air Act settlement and a $880,598 civil penalty against the now-defunct Buckeye.

A 1999 analysis of air data by the Environmental Defense Fund found that hog operations spew 167 million pounds of ammonia nitrogen into the atmosphere each year in North Carolina alone. "Studies in the North Carolina region where hog facilities are clustered show that the level of ammonia in rain has doubled in the past decade," the report stated.

Epidemiological studies, meanwhile, suggest the fumes may cause increased rates of asthma, chronic bronchitis and other respiratory disorders. A 1999 report prepared by epidemiologist Steve Wing for the North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services found that people residing near a large hog facility suffered increased levels of nausea, diarrhea and respiratory problems.

The livestock industry dismisses such information. "There has not been anything scientifically proven that these hog barns would cause any ill to human beings," says Kara Flynn, director of communications for the NPPC. "I travel routinely to hog farms and I've never smelled anything that caused me any grief ... it's actually very pleasant, surprisingly, fairly normal." Flynn says, "We are paying for that study to take place so that they [EPA] can ... come up with regulations that impact us. I think that's more than fair."

The EPA-citing a 2002 National Academy of Sciences report calling for further study-insists that it needs more information before it can enforce the law. "A lot of people assume we know the quantity and type of emissions coming from these [animal feeding operations] and we don't," says EPA Press Secretary Cynthia Bergman. Rather than going after companies one by one, says Bergman, "a better way is to figure out what their emissions are industrywide."

But critics say the Bush administration's EPA has dragged its feet and stifled the momentum of factory-farm enforcement begun under President Clinton. Michele Merkel, a former EPA staff attorney now working with the Washington DC-based Environmental Integrity Project, says the agency "hasn't initiated one investigation in four years. They're not doing anything."

Most distressing, says Merkel, is that the EPA has spent years negotiating a voluntary "safe harbor" approach when the agency has long had the "authority to gather the kind of data it needs to determine emissions levels at these industrial farming operations. It doesn't need industry's permission. It doesn't need to sign up to this voluntary agreement. They're privatizing a rulemaking process."

Environmentalists call the EPA plan a "sweetheart" deal between the Bush administration and the livestock sector, which contributed $3.46 million to candidates for federal office in 2004, 79 percent of it to Republicans, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

Indeed, on September 16 the NPPC presented its "Friend of the Pork Producer" award to President Bush, citing his "tireless efforts to use reason and science in shaping environmental policies impacting agriculture."

Now Senator Larry Craig (R-Idaho) is preparing legislation to exempt industrial farms from federal Superfund and right-to-know laws altogether, potentially rendering the EPA plan moot. A coalition of 33 family farm and environmental groups is lobbying hard to block the rider.
 
barry2952 said:
I read the transcript thouroughly and I can't understand your view. What John Kerry did in 1970 took great courage. I would have done the same thing had I been in his shoes.

I also read that John Kerry has the same views today as he had back then. I don't think that you should be questioning his consistancy.

Let's talk about today. I believe that the war in Iraq is wrong on the same level as Vietnam was in 1970. We went in for the wrong reason. I was hoping for a solution that didn't require violence, but I stood with the President when he made the final decision. I was glued to my television for weeks, hoping for a seizure of WMD. I wanted to feel justified in putting my faith in our Commander-In-Chief. I was miserably disappointed. I lost faith.

Now that there appears to be no WMD the POTUS wants us all to think that Iraq needed a preemptive strike because Saddam "could" have reconstituted his WMD programs "if" the sanctions were relaxed. Saddam's new crime is perverting the Oil for Food program. I don't think that those are good enough reasons to put our men and women in harm's way.

The President's accusations that "Kerry voted for it too" and "He saw the same intelligence" are about as lame as it gets. The intellegence was disseminated from the POTUS to Congress, not the other way around.

I really wish I could see your point of view, but I can't. We'll have to agree to disagree.

:I

I must add here that I'm sick of hearing the GOP battle cry of "Kerry voted against the $87B for the war". The FACT of the matter was that of that $87B, Kerry voted for the $67B that was allocated to support the troops, what he TOOK ISSUE WITH was the other $20B for rebuilding Iraq following the war, because he felt that it was NOT ENOUGH!!! How much more twisting and distorting of the TRUTH must we suffer from the GOP??
 
JohnnyBz00LS said:
I must add here that I'm sick of hearing the GOP battle cry of "Kerry voted against the $87B for the war". The FACT of the matter was that of that $87B, Kerry voted for the $67B that was allocated to support the troops, what he TOOK ISSUE WITH was the other $20B for rebuilding Iraq following the war, because he felt that it was NOT ENOUGH!!! How much more twisting and distorting of the TRUTH must we suffer from the GOP??
Then he should have voted for it. If the $20 billion wasn't enough, there would have been another bill come along that would have addressed the need for additional funds. But that just makes too much sense, I guess. All these calls that Bush made "colossal errors in judgement", I say take a look at Kerry's decision in voting against that bill; talk about stupid.
 
Kbob said:
Then he should have voted for it. If the $20 billion wasn't enough, there would have been another bill come along that would have addressed the need for additional funds.

As is typical of politics, we don't have time to make it right the 1st time, but we'll make time to do it over again. Kinda like GW's foreign policy: Keep on killing, we'll eventually get the bad guys.
 
JohnnyBz00LS said:
As is typical of politics, we don't have time to make it right the 1st time, but we'll make time to do it over again. Kinda like GW's foreign policy: Keep on killing, we'll eventually get the bad guys.
As is typical of political maneuvering, why should Kerry have voted for something that was right when he could vote against it to show that he's smarter than everyone else and possibly drag it out to make the Republicans look bad. What an idiot to put politics in front of the welfare of our troops.
 
2 months after sKerry is in office, the economy will be great. We'll have a net gain in jobs. Oil will be back down to $38.00/barrel. Christopher Reeves will rise from the dead and John Kerry will walk (on water) across the Atlantic to outsource the rebuilding of Iraq to the French , Germans and UN by bribing them with your tax dollars.


Oh, ya, forgot one thing. And we'll have another terrorist attack on our soil.
 

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