Xcal 2 how does it work???

[rocket5979]

Here are some screenshots I just made for you, Stinkin. There are a lot of specifics to tuning and I dont really expect you to understand this. But if you did, then THIS is some of the things that are modified to produce more power, better shifting, adjust A/F trims so on so forth. There are many other perameters involved, but I picked a select few for people to see for example purposes.

 

[rocket5979]

So I retract my previous statement - you are never wrong.

Ok be childish if you want? But I OWN the vehicle we are referring to so I would probably have to know just a little bit about it, right? I am not saying I am never wrong. I am mistaken sometimes too so don't take that crybaby sarcastic tone with me Lou. My only intention to come in this thread was to clarify things. If people cannot handle the accurate truth then they need to check their ego's at the door because if I know anything about the issue and I see something amiss I will correct it. I tried to keep this a technical debate so why are you attempting to make this personal Lou? Riddle me that???

 

[Quik LS]

dude - your beat downs are in every thread - we are all use to it - we got it.

 

[02LSE96LSC91SE84TC]

rocket5979 does admit whens hes wrong. I got him one time, I remember clearly, it wasn't a big deal, and he was fine with being wrong. He also will admit what he doesn't know squat about. Hes not a know it all never wrong kind of guy, he knows alot about this crap, and can tell you.

 

[Quik LS]

I do not debate the Rocket knows his stuff. The message is sometimes lost in his delivery.

look at this thread. corrected me about the processor - which was not correct. Then jumps on Stinkin - why? for the same reasons he jump on me in the other thread where I jumped on Stinkin.

I'm sure we will hear from Rocket all the reason why - it's all makes sense to him.

I will not post in this thread again.

 

[02LSE96LSC91SE84TC]

I will not post in this thread again.

Jeeeez.
Robs a good guy, willing to come over to a fellow LvC members garage to wrench on a car just because he likes to wrench. Also to learn to wrench on something hes not to familiar with a MarkVIII, not that its not relative to all he knows, just in a different platform. He truely is a gearhear, he wanted nothing more than to wrench and learn about a new vehicle. He expected nothing in return and has become a good friend.

 

[zexls]

You would DEFTINITLY feel 50 lbs of torque. And yeah tell me about it on dyno tuning cost. The standalone in the ranger was over 1100 just to get it up and running, than about 800 to get it tuned, still wasnt perfect but had about 400hp on tap whenever I needed it

It cost me about $200, the real reason i did it was so I would diffrent programs made to my spec. for no2 and other things I was doing. If it was not for that I would not of had it done, but driving the car before and after the tune, I think there is a big diff in the way the car responds to me.

 

[DMcBrideBoston]

When I had my LS dyno, it went from 199.74rwhp and 208.40rwtq to 216.9hp and 253.02tq.

Sorry to jump off topic but is this standard? to lose 52hp and 50+ tq through the trans to the wheels?

Seems awfully high to me?

My last car (RWD V8) typically only lost maybe 30 at MOST in hp.

THanks

Dave

 

[Cruznlife1]

Well I had to start from scratch, they gave me a base tune but the motor was so not what they were expecting lol....

With the headwork, and cam it would hardly start with the base tune.

98 Ranger with an 86 Mustang SVO 2.3 Motor. Bored 30 over, honed etc. blah blah blah, Blueprinted, crower rods, wiseco forged pistons, new forged crank (stock replacement) total seal rings, windage tray, studs, straps. Esslinger head, VERY VERY ported, I dont have the flow card anymore, "MPI Cam" Biggest they had basically, almost .600 lift. Double springs, oversize stainless valves, titanium everyhing (except valves), with an adjustable gear and oversize esslinger timing belt kit, "Bobs" Header, Ported Holset HY35 Turbo (Cummins Diesel), tial external wastegate, 3.5" Stainless exhaust, no cat/with borla muffler dumped, ported intakes, homemade upper intake manifold, oversize throttle body, TIAL BOV, 2.5" Boost pipes, huge front mount, water/alky injection, jacobs digital ignition, 72/lb injectors, microtech standalone, Mustang t5 trans with pro 5.0 shifter, fidanza flywheel, spec 3 clutch. Aluminum driveshaft, explorer 8.8 31 spline limited slip rearend with rear discs.

Suspension DJM 4/5
Wheels 18x6 boyd coddington coddzillas fronts
rear wheels 20x9.5 boyd coddington coddzillas rears
Nitto shoes all the way around, bendix brakes.

Interior cobra leather, and full autometer C2 Instruments. Fiberglassed center bezel to hold 2 more gauges.

Walbro 255 fuel pump with kirban afpr and braided fuel lines. Oil Cooler, and some other miscellaneous things, billet dress up stuff

The bed bumper was shaved, and roll pan molded in, front badges shaved, mudflap holes shaved, ranger edge front bumper, clear corners and HID's in the headlights and fogs. Whole truck repainted a mid 90's bmw color.
5% window tint, custom console, alpine everything with 3 mtx 12's in the back, yada yada yada.

There was more I just dont remember.

Truck ran about 28 psi on the street which was good for about 400 hp, no I dont have dyno sheets, but just trust me lol....
I never got to get some race gas in it and hit it with 40 psi like I had planned on the track. I had a small electrical fire that quickly got out of control and I had no extinguisher, I lost the truck in september of 05

 

[zexls]

Sorry to jump off topic but is this standard? to lose 52hp and 50+ tq through the trans to the wheels?

Seems awfully high to me?

My last car (RWD V8) typically only lost maybe 30 at MOST in hp.

THanks

Dave

The # are at the wheels. I have raced 2 or 3 LS's when I was stock ind it was neck and neck.

 

[Cruznlife1]

 

[2002_LS_V8]

i hope nobody died in that car... and ur driving it now :shifty:

 

[Cruznlife1]

driving what car ? the truck ? it's in the junkyard I have the LSE now

 

[StinkinLinkinLS01]

Hey rocket...it was a joke. I'm not going to say anything about the XCal anymore.

 

[DMcBrideBoston]

The # are at the wheels. I have raced 2 or 3 LS's when I was stock ind it was neck and neck.

I understand the 199 horsepower is at the wheels. It is 252hp at the crank stock. So what I was asking is, Is it typical to lose 50 horsepower from the crank to the wheels, 20 percent just seems kinda high to me.

 

[Quik LS]

believe it - we are seening between 18 - 22% loss through the drivetrain.

most of the stock dyno numbers I have seen range from 200, 207, and as high as 216. the type of dyno can really change these are well - it is very hard to compare a Mustang Dynamometer to a DynoJet and such.

 

[DMcBrideBoston]

believe it - we are seening between 18 - 22% loss through the drivetrain.

Wow, that's a huge loss. Thanks for the confirmation Quick...

 

[rocket5979]

Hey rocket...it was a joke. I'm not going to say anything about the XCal anymore.

Ok, I totally took it out of context then. Sorry about that. I was wondering why you were asking the same question when I thought I had answered it clearly for you in the other thread. Either way I guess it was a misunderstanding on our parts. It is hard to tell the difference in power sometimes, but only track time will truly tell.

 

[StinkinLinkinLS01]

No big deal..and I do apologize for undermining the complexity of the some of the tunes. As most of you the specifics are way beyond me, its just that I would imagine the LS is a lot more difficult to squeeze extra HP out of...so if Torrie has indeed squeezed say 11-15hp out of it bravo! My only worry is that the only things changed are minor a/f ratios, spark/ignition degrees, and shift points that aren't necessarily worth $400. I could be wrong, the tunes seem to be on and off for me. Sometimes my car will be running great, like the times I raced those beamers, Lexus's, and mustangs and other times it lags a little, like the time i raced that Caddy. Either way, I don't think I can make any more claims until I get some solid numbers from both the track and the dyno.

 

[sloban]

No big deal..and I do apologize for undermining the complexity of the some of the tunes. As most of you the specifics are way beyond me, its just that I would imagine the LS is a lot more difficult to squeeze extra HP out of...so if Torrie has indeed squeezed say 11-15hp out of it bravo! My only worry is that the only things changed are minor a/f ratios, spark/ignition degrees, and shift points that aren't necessarily worth $400. I could be wrong, the tunes seem to be on and off for me. Sometimes my car will be running great, like the times I raced those beamers, Lexus's, and mustangs and other times it lags a little, like the time i raced that Caddy. Either way, I don't think I can make any more claims until I get some solid numbers from both the track and the dyno.

Hi all,

I'm still totally down with Stinkin's questions. I can't help but observe that according to most accounts that I read, these tunes twiddle a bunch of constants in the ECM, resulting in no perceptible difference in performance.

Based on the testimony on the boards, the XCal does also seem to do some really concrete things, like changing shift points and reducing throttle-by-wire lag. It might be worth $400 to me to get rid of the throttle lag, but I'd hate to wind up with nasty hard shifts as a problem instead.

As a performance mod, it's sure not something I would put out hard-earned money for. Sure, advancing spark timing to leverage higher octane levels (at WOT) will result in some additional power, but how often do I run at WOT? If someone is willing to go backwards in terms of daily drivability in an LS in exchange for 10 extra HP at WOT, in my opinion, they've probably selected the wrong car to own.

And I have a question of my own ... does the tune in some way turn off the ability of the ECM to adapt to the driving habits over time? In other words, does the tune "stick" over time or will it mellow out over the 98% or whatever of your driving that is presumably off the race track?

 

[rocket5979]

Hi all,

I'm still totally down with Stinkin's questions. I can't help but observe that according to most accounts that I read, these tunes twiddle a bunch of constants in the ECM, resulting in no perceptible difference in performance.

Trust me that there is a big difference. I would not be running a 14.3 in my Ls without the big help of the SCT tune loaded into the LS via my second Xcal2.

Based on the testimony on the boards, the XCal does also seem to do some really concrete things, like changing shift points and reducing throttle-by-wire lag. It might be worth $400 to me to get rid of the throttle lag, but I'd hate to wind up with nasty hard shifts as a problem instead.

Minimizing throttle lag on the 03+ TBW LS's will not mess with any of the trans shift pressures. If you changed trans shift pressures then you would get the potential for harder shifts like you mentioned; but not from messing with the TBW tables.

As a performance mod, it's sure not something I would put out hard-earned money for. Sure, advancing spark timing to leverage higher octane levels (at WOT) will result in some additional power, but how often do I run at WOT? If someone is willing to go backwards in terms of daily drivability in an LS in exchange for 10 extra HP at WOT, in my opinion, they've probably selected the wrong car to own.

Daily driveability is not affected whatsoever with a new tune. Now if you ask for much firmer shift pressures then you will get it but if you do not ask for it then you will not (depending on who does the tune).

And I have a question of my own ... does the tune in some way turn off the ability of the ECM to adapt to the driving habits over time? In other words, does the tune "stick" over time or will it mellow out over the 98% or whatever of your driving that is presumably off the race track?

The tune does not turn off adaptive learning unless you specifically ask for it. No one does this besides us super-serious racer guys who want to make sure we have things as dialed in as possible before letting adaptive learning take over to finetune from there.

Sloban, no offense, but you could not be more mistaken in a lot of the things you said.

When loaded with a good tune, the Xcal2 computer reflash is the best bang for the buck mod out there for the LS. It is not just gaining a mere 10 hp and it is not just doing it at WOT or at peak power. The advanced spark timing increases power throughout the powerband and throttle tip in range too along with usually netting an additional 20+ hp (depending on who does the tune). Once a person truly understands all the capabilities of the SCT tuning hardware and softwares then one can really begin to take advantage of all the different options available. Not only does the Xcal2 reflash your computer with full revamped sets of perameters but they also serve to pull SES or CEL codes along with being a full on datalogger too, with analog inputs no less. For $400 or even for $200 like I got my second Xcal2 for people really are getting a heck of a deal on one very diverse piece of equipment. Even if a person only used them to flash a tune to their car it is still worth it. Back in the day when Diablo chips used to be popular they costed a little over $300 and didn't have anywhere near the full bank accessibility that the Xcal2 has; not to mention that you can reconfigure alot of files on your Xcal2 also. Whether people realize it or not just take my word that these little devices are very good pieces of equipment and worth every penny.

I hope this clears a few things up for you man.

 

[J3FF]

Sloban, no offense, but you could not be more mistaken in a lot of the things you said.

When loaded with a good tune, the Xcal2 computer reflash is the best bang for the buck mod out there for the LS. It is not just gaining a mere 10 hp and it is not just doing it at WOT or at peak power. The advanced spark timing increases power throughout the powerband and throttle tip in range too along with usually netting an additional 20+ hp (depending on who does the tune). Once a person truly understands all the capabilities of the SCT tuning hardware and softwares then one can really begin to take advantage of all the different options available. Not only does the Xcal2 reflash your computer with full revamped sets of perameters but they also serve to pull SES or CEL codes along with being a full on datalogger too, with analog inputs no less. For $400 or even for $200 like I got my second Xcal2 for people really are getting a heck of a deal on one very diverse piece of equipment. Even if a person only used them to flash a tune to their car it is still worth it. Back in the day when Diablo chips used to be popular they costed a little over $300 and didn't have anywhere near the full bank accessibility that the Xcal2 has; not to mention that you can reconfigure alot of files on your Xcal2 also. Whether people realize it or not just take my word that these little devices are very good pieces of equipment and worth every penny.

I hope this clears a few things up for you man.

Rocket...Tune my car =)
lol

 

[StinkinLinkinLS01]

Sloban, no offense, but you could not be more mistaken in a lot of the things you said.

When loaded with a good tune, the Xcal2 computer reflash is the best bang for the buck mod out there for the LS.

I'm sorry..but there aren't too many mods to chose from so that does not say much about the tune itself. Plus not too many people are hooking laptops up to their XCal even when they do get it.

Personally, I think the exhaust was the best. It looks good, sounds great, and gave me a definite gain in HP, especially at wot at top end speed...

It is not just gaining a mere 10 hp and it is not just doing it at WOT or at peak power. The advanced spark timing increases power throughout the powerband and throttle tip in range too along with usually netting an additional 20+ hp (depending on who does the tune).

I HIGHLY doubt Torrie's tunes gave me more than 30hp. :shifty:

once a person truly understands all the capabilities of the SCT tuning hardware and softwares then one can really begin to take advantage of all the different options available. Not only does the Xcal2 reflash your computer with full revamped sets of perameters but they also serve to pull SES or CEL codes along with being a full on datalogger too, with analog inputs no less. For $400 or even for $200 like I got my second Xcal2 for people really are getting a heck of a deal on one very diverse piece of equipment.

Cmon now...its a box that holds tunes. Just like the XCal1...just like Torrie and Quik have so often stated. Those end user adjustments barely do anything...you need the laptop AND the software AND most importantly the know how to take it to the next level. A motorhead may be down for that, but how many motor heads go out and by a Lincoln LS?

How many LS owners "truly understand all the capabilites of the SCT tuning software"...how many even have access to this stuff and how many would really care if they did?

Not too many my friend...

Even if a person only used them to flash a tune to their car it is still worth it. Back in the day when Diablo chips used to be popular they costed a little over $300 and didn't have anywhere near the full bank accessibility that the Xcal2 has; not to mention that you can reconfigure alot of files on your Xcal2 also. Whether people realize it or not just take my word that these little devices are very good pieces of equipment and worth every penny.

I hope this clears a few things up for you man.

When using the XCal2 to it's maximum potential with all the bells and whistles and the tune pkg with your little laptop and all that techy stuff than yea...it may be worth it for $400. But to the average LS buyer? I mean cmon now...this is a Lincoln LS...

I just can't wait to get this thing to the dyno. Either I'll be eating my own words or a few people will become a little bit quieter on this topic...

With all these people taking their cars to the dynos and buying the XCal you would think someone would provide some solid numbers. No one has provided anything..including the people who specialize in these tunes.:shifty:

I think the latter is more likely...there is a reason for that lack of valuable information.

On a parting note....I respect the tuners of the automotive world, especially SCT. For christ sakes I have their emblem on the side of my car!

I know some tuners can get an 80% HP increase for about $800.

And rocket...if I do the math right even if I do get say 30hp out of the max tune I'm still only getting a 12% increase for $400!!!! WOW!!!!

FACE IT! if you want a car that goes fast (13's) without dumping like $10,000 into it buy something else. The LS is meant for 20" rims and cruising...I wish I could make it go faster...but I'm not doing nos and I can't afford a sc. I'd imagine the 1stgenLSV8 peaks at no more than 285HP with all poss mods other than nos or a supercharger. 2ndgen maybe 300hp.

This is why I'm just gonna trade for a GTP or a supercharged buick or a camaro. I've dumped about $2500 into the LS and I'm about as fast as I'm gonna be and honestly its just not good enough. I doubt I could top a 14.6!

Originally the beauty and prestige of the LS brought me to it...but now my hunger for speed is pulling me away

Plus I'm start to feel a little wear and tear on my 88,XXX mile engine....better bail out while I can...

And lastly rocket...nothing personal against you...just car talk...you know

 

[StinkinLinkinLS01]

And no I'm not 100% sure about those % increase on the other tunes I referred to. Some kid at the street races I go to told me a chip he could get for his car could free up an 80% increase in HP for about $800. I think it was a Jetta or some other "tuner car"...either way...even a 50% increase is better than 12% for $400. To put it in scale say I did pay $800 for an SCT tune for my LS. In theory I'd still only get a 25% increase in power. That would be about 60HP which would be very impressive but of course we're just doing this for comparison reasons and simply speculating.

 

[sloban]

Sloban, no offense, but you could not be more mistaken in a lot of the things you said.

None taken! I've been mistaken before .... all the time, actually.