Custom Lincoln LS Turbo

Hello again, I apologize for the lenghty absence. We ran into numerous installation and fit problems regarding the moved power sterring pump. The compressor unit fit beatifully! The goal being compatabilty with all model years, maintaining low cost, an easy swap and bullet proof functionality. After many weeks of shipping parts, including engine front plate, photo's and emails; it was decided to ship Wisper down to Geoff, in Florida. As the car does not see Northeast winters; she is headed south December 1 or first snow.

During the interim we have been discussing tuning and injectors. Thanks to a tremendous amount of help from QUIK LS, we think we have that issue nailed. We will be going to 30lbs injectors and a PCM flash using the XCAL 3 with a file from Torrie.

Hopefully, the end result being an easily installed BDT with all tuning issues finalized. I will update everyone sometime in January. Again, apologies for my neglect; we're almost there.
 
good to hear form you. Hang in there - these types of projects always throw a few wrinkles at you - but would be 1/2 the fun if it was easy!
 
Quik LS said:
That is my setup.

As I posted in my SC thread - Geoff and I are working on the kitting details now.
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Well quick do uhave a timeframe on when this kit will become available?? I have a 2000 ls and was thinking about selling since i now have a 04 LSE.. But ifi ts goingto be soon then ill keep it for a project car. Any idea of price?
 
Geoff is setup in his new location and ready to go.

I wrote up the manual (72 pages - lot's of pics) and it's into Geoff and the LLSOC group for review (spelling/grammer and technical review).

We should be ready to go within 30days.
 
decision made then....keeping car and will purchase a kit as soon as available
 
Besides the manual and the kit being almost ready, how about some numbers? And what year car was this installed on? 210hp or 222hp? I might have to go buy a second Ls. And what kind of trans work is being done for this upgrade? I have heard rumors that the v6 rear cant handle that kind of power.
 
ILLS said:
If I recall correctly, I believe this guy was only talking about getting something like this done on his V6.
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The goal is to develope and produce a complete kit which will fit all V6 model years. There will be some minor differences in installation between 2000-2002 and 2003 up. There might also be a different PCM File for each group. Once the BDT has been completed and fully tested it will be made available to others. Geoff and I expect (hope) to be able to offer the kit this spring.
 
Lincoln ave said:
Besides the manual and the kit being almost ready, how about some numbers? And what year car was this installed on? 210hp or 222hp? I might have to go buy a second Ls. And what kind of trans work is being done for this upgrade? I have heard rumors that the v6 rear cant handle that kind of power.
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If I recall correctly the v6 LS came with 210 or 232 hp depending on gen1 or gen2. Also I believe the tranny and rear end are the same in the v6 as the v8. Of course they differ if you are talking gen1 vs gen2.
I am curious to know the test vehicle... was it the gen1 or gen2 v6?
EDIT: just checked shiloh's profile.... Wisper is an 05 v6. :)

Shiloh said:
The goal is to develope and produce a complete kit which will fit all V6 model years. There will be some minor differences in installation between 2000-2002 and 2003 up. There might also be a different PCM File for each group. Once the BDT has been completed and fully tested it will be made available to others. Geoff and I expect (hope) to be able to offer the kit this spring.
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That would be great if the kit was available this spring. I'd love to unwrap a box that included everything I would need to get this done (Turbo, brackets, injectors, Xcal, etc.).

I would almost guarentee that there will be a different tune for gen1 and gen2. The gen2 cars have VVT and gen1 did not. That along with the TBW led me to that assumption.

Glad to have the positive update and hear things are progressing well. Keep up the good work!!
 
Shiloh said:
The goal is to develope and produce a complete kit which will fit all V6 model years. There will be some minor differences in installation between 2000-2002 and 2003 up. There might also be a different PCM File for each group. Once the BDT has been completed and fully tested it will be made available to others. Geoff and I expect (hope) to be able to offer the kit this spring.
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There will have to be a different tune for the different Gen's. Just like the V8's have very different tuning between the Gen 1 and Gen 2 I am sure the V6's have that too, though I have never taken a look at the tuning. I could be wrong but my intuition and experience tuning these cars influences me to think otherwise.
 
Once issue is with the V6 MTX, since the manual transmission was limited on it's torque handling capascity (reason it was not offerred in the V8 - or at least not an easy V8 mod). The BDT will likely put the v6 torque figures over the max for the getrag.
 
Great to hear from you Shiloh. This is great news for next year and please keep us posted on the Dyno runs and such.
 
Keeping the third pedal

Quik LS said:
Once issue is with the V6 MTX, since the manual transmission was limited on it's torque handling capascity (reason it was not offerred in the V8 - or at least not an easy V8 mod). The BDT will likely put the v6 torque figures over the max for the getrag.
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I must admit I find this thread very interesting and informative. Please forgive my ignorance but most of my automotive work has been on older stuff.

I am very interested in this turbo build and will be following it closely.

If / when this kit becomes available what, if any would be my option for solving the issues with the manual transmission. I walked away from several V8 LSs for the simple fact I wanted the standard. I believe but could be wrong that this BDT would appeal to anyone who had the standard shift V6.

Any thoughts?
 
HP Increase; Food for Thought

Though we will not have actual numbers for the LS for some time yet; I can give you actual numbers for a similiar setup. Knight currently has the BDT kit available retail through various sources for the V6 Charger/Magnum series.

A recent installation and test on a 3.5 V6, stock HP is 180, of the BDT resulted in the following: on pump gas -244 HP, a roughly 35% increase; on E85 - 251 HP, roughly 39% increase.

If you transfer those results to a stock V6 LS, Gen 2 - 232 HP, on pump gas you would get 313 HP.

If we actually end up with increases similiar to the Charger/Magnum series; the V6 LS will be a wolf in sheeps clothing.

We are going to be using the 30lb injectors from Ford Racing.
 
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Shiloh said:
Though we will not have actual numbers for the LS for some time yet; I can give you actual numbers for a similiar setup. Knight currently has the BDT kit available retail through various sources for the 3.5 V6 Charger/Magnum series.

A recent installation and test on a 3.5 V6, stock HP is 180, of the BDT resulted in the following: on pump gas -244 HP, a roughly 35% increase; on E85 - 251 HP, roughly 39% increase.

If you transfer those results to a stock V6 LS, Gen 2 - 232 HP, on pump gas you would get 313 HP.

If we actually end up with increases similiar to the Charger/Magnum series; the V6 LS will be a wolf in sheeps clothing.

We are going to be using the 30lb injectors from Ford Racing.
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What amount of boost are you using to base the power estimates off of? I can see where you are going with the comparison of the Charger engine to the LS V6 engine but I would recommend against making a comparison like that. Different engines respond VERY different to forced induction. Some eat it up and make HUGE gains per pound of boost. Others make crap for additional power per pound of boost. I am not here to beat any hp estimates by comparative analysis down but it would be best to have an estimate based upon more accurate measures. If I were you I would run the Cobra 39 lb injectors. For one those 30's may not be large enough and the other is that you can pick those Cobra 39's up for $100-125 used from a Terminator owner. It has been a while since I have looked at the Gen1 or Gen2 V6 LS engine so I forget if they have EV1 or EV6 style electrical plugs. That would be a big factor on whether you can use the Cobra (EV6) injectors. The Ford racing 30's have an EV6 body but have an EV1 connector which is the important factor. Tunability or MPG will not suffer if they end up being a touch too big either. Just a few helpful suggestions.
 
I looked in AlldataPro. According to that the Gen1 LS's have the EV6 style injector connector. It would be MUCH cheaper to use the Cobra 39's in that case and it would be a cleaner install too. Alldata has been wrong on a few things before but it is worth a look into the engine bay.
 
The Cobra injectors are a direct fit. Those are what I am using. They also look like what Lou is gonna use too.
 
PGA2B said:
The Cobra injectors are a direct fit. Those are what I am using. They also look like what Lou is gonna use too.
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I know they are compatible for the V8's. That is what I used in the TurboLS; though Gen2. I wanted verification of the 6'ers having the EV6 harness connector to allow using the Cobra's without the adapters. By what I have found on Alldata it seems they are EV6. Sorry if my above post mislead you into thinking I was talking about all Gen1 LS's. I meant just the V6's.
 
Yes - the V6 uses the high-impedance EV6

Bosch injector XW4E-9F593-A5C (CM4933),
injector No 0.280.155.863, alternate XW4E-9F593-A5C / XW4Z-9F593-AC,
cc/min @ 3 BA 154, lbs/hr @ 3 BAR: 14.66
Ohm: 15.2
Connector: USCAR / EV6

ACDELCO Part : 2171696 (89052832)
Standard Motor Products : FJ302
DELPHI : FJ10535

So….
It appears it is a pretty standard high impedance Ford ‘thin’ body injector with a EV6 (new style) connector. Meaning you have lots of options (since Mustang uses the same style).

IB he was looking for 30lbs - > http://www.americanmuscle.com/mustang-ev6-30-injectors.html

the only issue may be adjusting the fuel rail mounting for a possible different injector height.
 
Quik LS said:
IB he was looking for 30lbs - > http://www.americanmuscle.com/mustang-ev6-30-injectors.html
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Not all Mustangs used the EV6 injectors. While the later Mustang Cobra's used the EV6 the modular Mustang GT's primarily used the EV1's. I don't want this guy going out and buying a set of used Mustang injectors assuming they all will drop right into his car because that will not be the case if he gets injectors from an SN-95 4.6 Mustang GT. Quik I know what you meant but it could have been taken in a different way by newer people.

The "EV6" for those injectors in the link only addresses body style, not the harness connector which is more important here. All other Ford Racing 30's I have seen had the EV6 body and the EV1 harness connector. That site is misleading when it says those injectors will work with the 03/04 Cobra and S-197 Mustang GT which have the EV6/USCAR injector connectors because just below that it says those have the Jetronic/Minitimer connectors which are EV1. The harness connector matters allot more than body style here. The Siemens Deka 60's that are on my truck are an EV6/EV1 design which are skinny with a square clip for the harness. I had to run the adapters because my stocker harness has the EV6 connectors. FRPP 42's are an EV1/EV1 design which has the fat body and square harness clip. Shiloh it would be a good idea to verify that whatever injectors you end up buying have the same harness clip that will allow them to work with your car without having to buy the EV1-EV6 adapters.

Fuel rail spacing: Just go to the local hardware store and buy a stainless steel allen head bolt that is a little longer than the original. Then push the bolt through the rail mount tab and thread on a few nuts to serve as spacers. Tighten them to the point where they don't allow the bolt to wobble too much but still allow it to turn. Then just set the rail onto the manifold and sequentially tighten each bolt back down. This is the easiest method I have come up with to space fuel rails up with minimal headache. Don't use the washer spacing method. It will work but it can be a pain in the rear.
 
Yep - as we discussed - I use the same 'longer bolts and washers as spacers" with my rail as the 39s are longer the the stock injectors, but I only needed 1/8" or so to be tight. You wouldn't want to space a 1/4" or more like that.
 
Quik LS said:
Yep - as we discussed - I use the same 'longer bolts and washers as spacers" with my rail as the 39s are longer the the stock injectors, but I only needed 1/8" or so to be tight. You wouldn't want to space a 1/4" or more like that.
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The spacing amount will depend on how long the stocker injector is. Some vehicles use a VERY short stock injector while others do not. I had to space the rails of the Gen2 V8's close to 1/4" to properly fit the Cobra injectors. Remember that all it needs to do is space the rail high enough to sit/float on top of the injectors properly. If you space them just a little and the rail ends up being too tight then you take a chance of breaking an injector by clamping it between the rail and the manifold. They seal with an o-ring which does not need extra downward pressure to seal properly.
 
You guys are getting me all excited! Sure would be nice to work a charger under the hood of my 04v6...

I am still a bit concerned by the high stock compression ratio. I'd hate to hear a boom.
 
We are using 30 lb injectors for two reasons:
They will adequately supply the anticipated fuel demand
Based on the system designers' extensive experience; that is what he wants.

When investing multiple thousands of dollars; I would not nor would I advocate the purchase of used injectors, a critical component, from an unknown source, subjected unkown abuse such as running the tank dry, unkown hours/mileage of use just to save roughly 100 dollars. The 30's can be purchased in a set 8 for 220 dollars; leaving two spares in the event of failure down the road. As the axiom goes "penny wise dollar foolish".

I certainly did not write that there was a direct correlation between the charger/magnum results and what the end result will be for the LS. I published recent factual results gotten with a BDT on a 3.5 V6. The fact that the compressor units and boost will be the same on both models make it interesting food for thought. I clearly stated that actual numbers for the LS were some time away and IF results were SIMILAR the LS would be a wolf in sheeps clothing, again factual.
 
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