God is Only a Theory

The former ones of Israel who died faithful are not of the heavenly ruling class(NOT Christ's Christian brothers).They are awaiting a resurrection to live for all time ON the earth,just as Adam and Eve would have HAD they not sold us into sin.
Read Hebrews 11 and you will see that they are awaiting the fulfillment of the promise. They are dead,but in God's memory,which is just as good as a guarantee they'll be brought back to life.
You accuse me of what the Jews accused Jesus of? Well,you might as well accuse Jesus,just like the Jewish leaders did. He told the truth...............their HOUSE(the temple) was abandoned to them.
Do you think Jesus was lying when he said at John 3:13 that `No man has ascended into Heaven BUT HE that descended.'(Christ himself)
OR do you think Jesus was lying when he said at Matt. 11:11-12 that even though John the Baptist was unsurpassed as a person in God's eyes, he was not in the same class as one of the LESSER ones in heaven. John will be resurrected to live on Earth just as Abraham,Moses,Isaac, Ezekiel, Isaiah, and all faithful millions of the world will be. EVEN unrighteous will be resurrected and have to learn and accept obedience to Christ and his Father. MANY unrighteous,possibly billions, who have NEVER heard the Good News or had a chance at life will be resurrected.

don-ohio :)^)
 
Quote Don:

"Read Hebrews 11 and you will see that they are awaiting the fulfillment of the promise."

I have... many times Don... and the part you are missing,,, or don't understand... are the last few verses of Chapter 11.

NWT:

39 And yet all of these, although they received a favorable witness because of their faith, did not obtain the fulfillment of the promise, 40 because God had foreseen something better for us,+ so that they might not be made perfect apart from us.

What was the thing God saw that was/is better for us Don??? It was Jesus' death and resurrection. The Old Testament people of FAITH... had to wait for Jesus' sacrifice,,, to obtain the fufllment of the promise to them. In that way,,, EVERYONE of FAITH... was made perfect at the same time. Both from before and after Jesus' sacrifice.
 
Quote Don:

"The former ones of Israel who died faithful are not of the heavenly ruling class(NOT Christ's Christian brothers).They are awaiting a resurrection to live for all time ON the earth,"

No Don... this is not the proper interpretation. Again read Hebrew 11:39-40. AGAIN... The part you are not understanding... is the last few verses. After Christ died and rose... the former Faithful of Israel went to Heaven. They are not in Sheol/Hades "the temporary place of the dead"... "sleeping",,, awaiting an earthly kingdom. You are also forgetting Matthew 12:48-50

NWT:

Matthew 12:48-50

48 In reply he said to the one who spoke to him: “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 And extending his hand toward his disciples, he said: “Look! My mother and my brothers!+ 50 For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, that one is my brother and sister and mother.”+

Hebrews 11:39-40

39 And yet all of these, although they received a favorable witness because of their faith, did not obtain the fulfillment of the promise, 40 because God had foreseen something better for us,+ so that they might not be made perfect apart from us.

Again... this is talking about the fact that the Old Testament people of FAITH,,, had to wait until Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. This is what verse 40 is talking about when it says: "so that they might not be made perfect apart from us."

Quote Don:

"You accuse me of what the Jews accused Jesus of?"

No Don... the only thing I accuse you of is how you interpret and teach the Bible... when you don't have a good understanding of what it actually says. You need to get off the "ruling class" thing,,, because it is a stumbling block for you... and is preventing proper interpretaion of Scripture.

Quote Don:

"Do you think Jesus was lying when he said at John 3:13 that `No man has ascended into Heaven BUT HE that descended.'(Christ himself)"

No... Jesus isn't lying. Because at the time Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus, Jesus was trying to tell Nicodemus that he knew nothing about Heaven,,, becauase he hadn't been there like Jesus had, (but don't forget Moses and Elija... and Enoch) However... that doesn't mean that no one else went to Heaven after Jesus' death and resurrection... including people from the Old Testament, (again Hebrews 11:39-40).

Quote Don:

"OR do you think Jesus was lying when he said at Matt. 11:11-12 that even though John the Baptist was unsurpassed as a person in God's eyes, he was not in the same class as one of the LESSER ones in heaven.


Here we may have a slight "translation" ,(and/or interpretation), issue:

NWT:

11 Truly I say to you, among those born of women, there has not been raised up anyone greater than John the Baptist, but a lesser person in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is.+

NASB, (but all of 15 or so Christian translations say pretty much the same thing):

11“Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist! Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Here in Matthew,,, Jesus is referencing himself... but that might be hard to understand because of how the NWT chooses it's wording. If you think I am wrong about my interpretation of Matthew 11,,, don't forget that the Bible also says "for a little while Jesus made himself lower than the Angels." In other words,,, for a little while Jesus made Himself the "least/lesser" in the Kingdom of Heaven... by becoming human.

However... the moment Jesus died on the cross, (torture stake as you may call it),,, John the Baptist then went to Heaven to be with God.

Quote Don:

"John will be resurrected to live on Earth just as Abraham,Moses,Isaac, Ezekiel, Isaiah, and all faithful millions of the world will be."

This is a false statement... because after Jesus died and rose on the cross,,, His sacrifice gave everyone free access to God in this life...and those of FAITH,,, Heaven when they die. Maybe you need to read Hebrews 11 again... along again with the tombs being opened when Christ died.

NWT:

Matthew 27:51-53

51 And look! the curtain of the sanctuary+ was torn in two,+ from top to bottom,+ and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split. 52 And the tombs* were opened, and many bodies of the holy ones who had fallen asleep were raised up 53 (and people coming out from among the tombs after his being raised up entered into the holy city), and they became visible to many people.

Those who had "fallen asleep" were the people that died in Faith... before Christ's sacrifice on the cross.


Also read Revelation 7:9-17

9 After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,*+ standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes;+ and there were palm branches in their hands.+ 10 And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne,+ and to the Lamb.”+ 11 All the angels were standing around the throne and the elders+ and the four living creatures, and they fell facedown before the throne and worshipped God, 12 saying: “Amen! Let the praise and the glory and the wisdom and the thanksgiving and the honor and the power and the strength be to our God forever and ever.+ Amen.” 13 In response one of the elders said to me: “These who are dressed in the white robes,+ who are they and where did they come from?” 14 So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one who knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation,+ and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.+ 15 That is why they are before the throne of God, and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple; and the One seated on the throne+ will spread his tent over them.+ 16 They will hunger no more nor thirst anymore, neither will the sun beat down on them nor any scorching heat,+ 17 because the Lamb,+ who is in the midst* of the throne, will shepherd them+ and will guide them to springs* of waters of life.+ And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”+

Notice Don... that the "great multitude" of people too great to number... are standing in front of the throne of God,,, worshiping HIM day and night. If they are in front of God,,, they are in Heaven... NOT on earth. This "multitude" is not including the additional "pure"144,000.

But then again... I don't blame you for what you say here. I blame the ones that have tought you the "religion" you follow.



Quote Don:

"EVEN unrighteous will be resurrected and have to learn and accept obedience to Christ and his Father. MANY unrighteous,possibly billions, who have NEVER heard the Good News or had a chance at life will be resurrected."

Not only is this also a FALSE statement... but it is ALSO HERESY!!! Jesus was the one that taught most about Hell in the New Testament, (or has all of that been stricken from the NWT too?)... and who goes there besides the fallen Angels. Jesus says that those who reject the Apostles teaching... also reject Him, (and His teaching)... and also reject the Father. This includes false teachers and the unrighteous.

NWT:

John 3:16-18

16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son,+ so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.+ 17 For God did not send his Son into the world for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him.+ 18 Whoever exercises faith in him is not to be judged.+ Whoever does not exercise faith has been judged already, because he has not exercised faith in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.+

NASB:

16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

As far as those who never hear the Gospel,,, I won't even try to speculate on that... and you don't have the correct answer either.
 
Neither Moses nor Elijah or Enoch went to Heaven.They died. They are all awaiting resurrection into the cleansed Earth. Elijah wrote a letter after his `so-called' death and ascension into Heaven. Enoch was taken in death,we figure because the wickedness was closing in and so God `took' him mercifully. It says they all died. Enoch was taken so as not to see death.
JESUS said NO ONE has ascended into heaven save He that DESCENDED.................so you believe Jesus lies. You can't have it both ways.

don-ohio :)^)
 
Quote 04: ` Notice Don... that the "great multitude" of people too great to number... are standing in front of the throne of God,,, worshiping HIM day and night. If they are in front of God,,, they are in Heaven... NOT on earth.'

You are mistaken. They (the great crowd which no man is able to number) are before God at His footstool,the Earth.
SO! You don't believe the Earth is created for mankind's perfect existence? Read your Bible at Ps.104:5. THEN read Ps.37:10,11. THIS has NEVER been fulfilled. It will be true after Armageddon.

don-ohio :)^)
 
Really Don??? Need I remind you that YOUR NWT says this:

.+ 15 That is why they are before the throne of God, and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple; and the One seated on the throne+

It says THRONE... not footstool. So the multitude is in Heaven WITH God. So either your elders are teaching something different from what the NWT actually says... or YOU are misinterpreting what is says. (why do I sense another edit of the NWT coming now)
 
Quote Don:

"Neither Moses nor Elijah or Enoch went to Heaven.They died."

HERESY!!!

NWT Genesis 5:24

24 Eʹnoch kept walking with the true God.+ Then he was no more, for God took him.+

If Enoch had died,,, then that's what the Scriptures would say,,, but it seems your NWT matches what the Sciptures say.

Same with Elijah

NWT 2nd Kings 2:9-11

9 As soon as they had gone across, E·liʹjah said to E·liʹsha: “Ask what you want me to do for you before I am taken from you.” So E·liʹsha said: “Please, may I receive a double portion*+ of your spirit?”+ 10 He replied: “You have asked a difficult thing. If you see me when I am taken from you, it will happen for you that way; but if you do not, it will not happen.”
11 As they were walking along, speaking as they walked, suddenly a fiery chariot and fiery horses+ made a separation between the two of them, and E·liʹjah ascended to the heavens* in the windstorm.

Neither Enoch nor Elijah died... even by your own NWT translation. So again,,, is this what your elders are teaching... or is this your own interpretation.

While Moses did appear to die... he must have still gone to Heaven,,, because Peter, James, and John saw Moses with Jesus.

NWT:

Matthew 17:1-3

Six days later Jesus took Peter and James and his brother John along and led them up into a lofty mountain by themselves.+ 2 And he was transfigured before them; his face shone as the sun, and his outer garments became brilliant* as the light.+ 3 And look! there appeared to them Moses and E·liʹjah conversing with him.

Mark 9:2-4

2 Six days later Jesus took Peter and James and John along and led them up into a lofty mountain by themselves. And he was transfigured before them;+ 3 his outer garments began to glisten, becoming far whiter than any clothes cleaner on earth could whiten them. 4 Also, E·liʹjah with Moses appeared to them, and they were conversing with Jesus.

Luke 9:28-31

28 In fact, about eight days after saying these words, he took Peter, John, and James along and climbed up the mountain to pray.+ 29 And as he was praying, the appearance of his face changed and his clothing became glitteringly white. 30 And look! two men were conversing with him; they were Moses and E·liʹjah. 31 These appeared with glory and began talking about his departure, which he was about to fulfill at Jerusalem.

Who were the 2 figures with Jesus at the mount of transfiguration??? Moses and Elijah. If they were in the grave,,, they wouldn't have been with Jesus to be seen by Pere, James, and John.

Keep in mind Don... that this was before Jesus had died on the cross.
 
Quote Don:

"SO! You don't believe the Earth is created for mankind's perfect existence? Read your Bible at Ps.104:5. THEN read Ps.37:10,11. THIS has NEVER been fulfilled. It will be true after Armageddon.

No... I don't. At least not a new earth in the way you view it. Revelation gives NO description of what the new earth looks like,,, that I recall. You are just assuming that it will look like the one we have now... but remember,,, in Revelation the only thing John says about the new earth,,, is that there is no sea.

As far as the Psalms you are quoting... you are "cherry picking" verses out of context. You are doing the same thing with Psalms,,, as you are doing with Revelation. Not every Psalm is meant to be a "futuristic prophecy" Sometimes King David is speaking in his present tense... and sometimes it's about the past.

In Psalm 104... David is praising God in a reflective sense,,, about the "creation story" in Genesis. Also,,, to a degree.... what David mentions in Psalm 104... is also what God challenged job with,,, in Job Chapters 38 and 39.

You and I have already debated Psalm 37 before,,, but again... David is talking about THIS life,,, in David's day... and is saying that godly people will always be protected by God.

NWT:

Psalm 37:23


23 Jehovah guides* the steps of a man+

When He finds pleasure in his way.+


24 Although he may fall, he will not be hurled down,+

For Jehovah supports him by the hand.*+

נ [Nun]

25 I was once young and now I am old,

But I have not seen anyone righteous abandoned,+

Nor his children looking for bread.*+

NASB:

Psalm 37:23-25

23The steps of a man are established by the LORD,
And He delights in his way.

24When he falls, he will not be hurled headlong,
Because the LORD is the One who holds his hand.

25I have been young and now I am old,
Yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken
Or his descendants begging bread.

Quote Don:

"THIS has NEVER been fulfilled"

False Don. There was nothing to be fulfilled at the time David wrote these Pslams... because God had already done it,,, and was doing it... and is still doing for HIS children, (people of FAITH).

It seems to me Don... that you have no idea what your NWT says,,, or what your "religion" has taught you... is not exactly true.

NWT:

Revelation 21:8

8 But as for the cowards and those without faith+ and those who are disgusting in their filth and murderers+ and the sexually immoral*+ and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars,+ their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur.+ This means the second death.”+

Doesn't sound to me like any of theses will be on the "new earth" you believe in.
 
Quote 04: `As far as the Psalms you are quoting... you are "cherry picking" verses out of context. You are doing the same thing with Psalms,,, as you are doing with Revelation.'

You believe parts of the Bible,but just what YOU think to be true. Psalms is ALWAYS true,just as the REST of the Bible is true. `REMEMBER the scripture,04, `Let God be found true,though every man be found a liar.'

The perfect couple,Adam and Eve, establishing a PERFECT population on the Earth was God's original purpose and He will not be thwarted from it. In order to bring resurrected mankind and the GREAT CROWD of Rev .7 back to perfection,He has purposed to use 144,000 kings and priests to help us.

don-ohio :)^)
 
All your posting and typing does not change Bible facts,04. Now just to SHOW how much you can be mistaken when you discount Jesus's words that are at John 3:13 'NO man has ascended to heaven but he that descended', we'll take the Elijah example.
A number of years AFTER his ascension in the windstorm, in his new assignment after giving his appointment to ELISHA, he WROTE A LETTER to wicked King Jehoram of Yahweh's condemnation, which is fulfilled shortly thereafter. 2 Chron.21:12-15.
Remember also that Elisha did not mourn Elijah at the windstorm incident. The heavens he went up to were just like the heavens the birds fly in. You MUST BELIEVE Jesus's words at John 3:13 and quit calling Bible students HERETICS,04. Jesus never said anything untrue.
don-ohio :)^)
 
Thanks for the vote of confidence Cam. I understand that you are tired of hashing these things out,,, but I really wish you would offer your thoughts. If I had to venture a guess... you are possibly seminary studied,,, or are/were in some sort of pastorical stance.

Surprisingly,,, Don actually has me doing some homework with his last comments. Been a while since I have visited Kings and Chronicles... and that was only a light study a year or 2 back.

Thanks Don... for pushing and testing my FAITH. I'm digging in to what you are suggesting,,, but from what I have studied so far... you most likely won't agree with what I will have to say.
 
Quote Don:

"You believe parts of the Bible,but just what YOU think to be true. Psalms is ALWAYS true,just as the REST of the Bible is true. `REMEMBER the scripture,04, `Let God be found true,though every man be found a liar."

There you go AGAIN Don... putting untrue words in my mouth. I believe ALL of Psalms to be true, (as ALL of God's Word is)... but you and I perceive TRUTH from different perspectives. I, (along with many other Believers), have a different perspective than you do. You and I may never see "eye to eye",,, but Discerning "seekers" will know the TRUTH for what it is.

Stand by Don,,, I'm working on what you last suggested about Elijah.
 
You can work on it til the cows come home,04. The fact is that Jehoram died shortly after ELIJAH'S prophecy that he was a goner. That was a few years AFTER the whirlwind miracle. You can NEVER prove Jesus's words untrue at John 3:13. Many Pharisees and Sadducees have tried. don-ohio :)^)
 
Quote Don:

"All your posting and typing does not change Bible facts,04. Now just to SHOW how much you can be mistaken when you discount Jesus's words that are at John 3:13"

I'm not changing Bible facts Don... but I am sure that my facts are disparate from what you have been taught to believe. Your interpretaion of John 3:13... is much different than mine,,, because of what I understand to be TRUE about WHO CHRIST IS.

Don,,, IIRC, (If I Remeber Correctly), I already went through with you about the proper interpretation of John 3:13,,, and what Jesus was trying to point out to Nicodemus,,, is that Nicodemus knew nothing about Heaven... or how God works. Jesus' statement about "ascending and decending" was in Part... a statement as to whom Jesus is/was,,, but was also meant as a "correctional/instructional" idea in what Jesus was trying to teach Nicodemus about being "born again" in FAITH,,, and that Nicodemus knew very little about what he was talking about. Keep in mind that Nicodemus was a Pharisee,,, so he was studied in "the Law of the Prophets"... and Old Testament practices.
 
Quote Don:

"A number of years AFTER his ascension in the windstorm, in his new assignment after giving his appointment to ELISHA, he WROTE A LETTER to wicked King Jehoram of Yahweh's condemnation, which is fulfilled shortly thereafter. 2 Chron.21:12-15."

This is the part I am studying Don... and I will get back to this when I have a better understanding.

But... I need to ask you a question at the same time Don.

Do you believe that 1st Kings, 2nd Kings, 1st Chronicles, and 2nd Chronicles overlap each other...or are all of those Books of the Bible in a linear ,(chonological), timeline of history???????????????????????????
 
Quote Don:

"You can work on it til the cows come home,04. The fact is that Jehoram died shortly after ELIJAH'S prophecy that he was a goner. That was a few years AFTER the whirlwind miracle. You can NEVER prove Jesus's words untrue at John 3:13. Many Pharisees and Sadducees have tried. don-ohio "

Don... do you ever take the time to check and see if another post has been made before what you respond with?

Really??? I am no Pharisee.... because I am not bound to the Law they created. However... you seem to be bound by the law, (belief), that your religion has created.

It appears that Jehoram... was also known as "Joram",,, found elsewhere in the Books of the Bible we are now debating.
 
Quote Don:

"You can work on it til the cows come home,04. The fact is that Jehoram died shortly after ELIJAH'S prophecy that he was a goner. That was a few years AFTER the whirlwind miracle."

"Cows come home"... I like that expression,,, something I haven't heard for a few decades. You and I may be a decade or more apart in years,,, but not so much in what we have seen and understood in the "world" as time has gone by. I think Cam may fit in with us also , (generationally)... and I know why to some degree Cam calls you a "brother". However... I also understand why Cam calls your "beliefs",,, "crystal clear confusion".

Again Don... as much as I have said I was done with you,,, I still engage in discussion with you about differing beliefs about God. I care!!! However... if your agenda is just to proselytize someone...(to Earn your way into God's grace)... then you have the WRONG agenda. I think this is what Tijoe was politely trying to say to you many posts back.
 
Oh hey Don... I see you were on-line for a little while,,, but never responded to what i was saying. A bit of the research I have done,,, is around King Ahaziah... who was FIRST a ruler over the 10 tribes of Israel,,, and later ALSO ruled over the 2 tribes of Judah.

Hey Don... I noticed while you were on this site... you didn't respond to my question about 1st Kings, 2nd Kings, 1st Cronicles. and 2nd Cronicles being an historical "overlap" of each other... or being in a linear, (chonological), time form. What??? Do you need to check with your "elders" to know what to say??? I PLEAD with you Don... to think for yourself,,, rather than "what you have been taught",,, and to examine the Scriptures beyond what you have been instructed to believe.
 
Doin' just fine!. I'm runnin' along behind with my tongue hangin' out, but I think I can see where you're goin'.

Long years ago, at school, when I got in over my head, I could go up a couple of floors in the dorm and get a discussion going with a group of grad students from the School of Theology. They'd go back to Greek, Biblical Hebrew, and Aramaic with the comment, "Let's see what they said back then."

Dr Gustav Jeeninga was a Professor there at the time. He'd been on the spot and had to do with the so-called 'Dead-Sea Scrolls'. I took my basic Old and New Testament History courses from him.

And here's an 'AMEN'.

KS
 
Oh... and by the way Don... Heresy may not have the same meaning you think it does:


her·e·sy [hérrəssee]
(plural her·e·sies)
noun

1. unorthodox religious opinion: an opinion or belief that contradicts established religious teaching, especially one that is officially condemned by a religious authority

2. holding of unorthodox religious belief: the holding of, or adherence to, an opinion or belief that contradicts established religious teaching, especially one that is officially condemned by religious authorities
guilty of heresy

3. unorthodox opinion: an opinion or belief that does not coincide with established or traditional theory, especially in philosophy, science, or politics
His views on child development were regarded as heresy.

4. holding of unorthodox opinion: the holding of an unorthodox opinion that is in conflict with established or traditional theory, especially in philosophy, science, or politics


[12th century. Via French < Greek hairesis "choice, group" < haireisthai "choose"]
Microsoft® Encarta® 2006. © 1993-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


So yes Don... your views on Jesus and the Bible,,, are a bit unorthodox... by most Christian standards. You may think, (or have been taught), that most people will consider you a heretic... but that is for good reason. And even though you have been taught that most people will deny what you have to say... doesn't mean they do or will deny the TRUTH,,, or GOD.

Heresy has NOTHING to do with opposing beliefs... but has more to do with proper interpretaion of Scripture.
 
Quote Cam:

"Doin' just fine!. I'm runnin' along behind with my tongue hangin' out, but I think I can see where you're goin'.

Long years ago, at school, when I got in over my head, I could go up a couple of floors in the dorm and get a discussion going with a group of grad students from the School of Theology. They'd go back to Greek, Biblical Hebrew, and Aramaic with the comment, "Let's see what they said back then."

Dr Gustav Jeeninga was a Professor there at the time. He'd been on the spot and had to do with the so-called 'Dead-Sea Scrolls'. I took my basic Old and New Testament History courses from him.

And here's an 'AMEN'.

KS "



As the saying goes in the movie "Hook" , (Peter Pan remake with Dustin Hoffman), ... "Oh there you are Cam". I knew it "Brother"! I knew there was more that you were holding back on. Keep the FAITH... and "press on". Don't let the world beat you up,,, and when it does... fight back!!! GOD WILL prevail in the end

Now if I could just get LS4 to join in the discussion.....

Cam... don't hold on too tight to what I am saying. I'm just an average "lay person"... that knows the Bible well enought to argue the "finer points" of what it says. As long as I remain humble,,, and ask GOD for dierction and response... I know HE will give me the answer I need at the apropriate moment.

You have no idea... how many times I have called out to Jesus in the last couple days,,, to give me direction and a proper response to Don.

I have asked other people,,, (some Bible scholars),,, to double check what I have been saying in this thread. So far... it seems that I am on the right track,,, and staying within God's Word... but its only by my submission to GOD... that i am STILL in the TRUTH.

Not to tip my hand... but I think I can show Don,,, that the Lettter by Elijah in 2nd Chronicles 21:12-15,,, pre-dates him being taken up to Heaven by GOD.

I just have to sort out the chronolgy of the kings surrounding that time.

Pray for God given Wisdom, Knowledge, and Discernment on my part,,, and that those listening would hear and understand. I can't... and never could,,, do this on my own.
 
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