Going Rogue

[Calabrio]

..so in short, foxpaws is just going to invest energy into dismissing her.
And does anyone expect anything different. The "conservative" response she posted has been thoroughly addressed and his self-identification is a fraud.

She's going to attack Palin for being too "folksy" in one statement, then dismiss the rest because it has a co-author. Was the co-author too folksy also? Is the book good because the co-author was responsible for it, or merely bad because he wasn't responsible for it?

As demonstrated, the ideological far left, those like Foxpaws, will dismiss and attack Palin REGARDLESS what she does. They will not give her a fair hearing because she comes from outside the current political power structure and she does pose a profound political risk to them.

And to this point, she remains a bit of an unknown quantity.
But she is a threat so she must be crushed before she grows. If they were confident that she lacked depth or appeal they'd eagerly await for her to flame out and take out any political movement that might be associated with
her. That's too much of a threat.

And even more threatening is the fact they just don't know what she's going to do? Run for office? Remain a public figure and motivate political change from the outside? They just don't know. Again, kill it before it grows.

The same people who don't read her book, yet remain highly critical of her and those who enjoyed it, are the same ones (as mentioned in this thread) who embrace ghost written tomes of nonsense by the likes of Hillary, Obama, and Al Gore.

 

[fossten]

Good summation Cal.

Bottom line - Palin's book has sold over a million copies and counting.

 

[ford nut]

Good God Fossten can't you just edit one post.
She must be under your skin.

Wow fox taking on all the boys today?

Breaking news.......no way would I waste my time with the book or going to see Palin but some had a hard time staying away

I would have gone to see this.

YouTube- Man Throws Tomatoes at Palin

 

[fossten]

Good God Fossten can't you just edit one post.
She must be under your skin.

Wow fox taking on all the boys today?

Want some cheese with that whine, troll?

Breaking news.......no way would I waste my time with the book or going to see Palin but some had a hard time staying away

I would have gone to see this.

YouTube- Man Throws Tomatoes at Palin

Can you verify your whereabouts during this period of time?

 

[ford nut]

Want some cheese with that whine, troll?

Troll??? that's a good one.
You have what...8 posts in a row.
Temper....temper.
I honestly don't think it can be healthy for you to get so upset.

Can you verify your whereabouts during this period of time?

LOL Nope....but I am not in jail.

 

[MonsterMark]

Can you verify your whereabouts during this period of time?

LOL Precious

Hey Nut, do you have a garden in your backyard? Have been canning tomatoes as Chrismas presents? The world wants to know.

 

[fossten]

Troll??? that's a good one.
You have what...8 posts in a row.
Temper....temper.
I honestly don't think it can be healthy for you to get so upset.

"Sorry Hans, wrong guess! Want to try for double jeopardy where the scores can really change?"

You're not very good at analyzing my state of mind.

Alternatively, your hard-on for me is quite apparent.

 

[hrmwrm]

Alternatively, your hard-on for me is quite apparent.

as is yours for fox.

then spent several days in New York working around the clock with editors at Harper, said the person, who wasn’t authorized to comment and asked not to be identified.

ghost writer, now ghost spokes people.

 

[Calabrio]

...so it's fun to assault people that we think we might not agree with totally, assuming we know who they are, based upon the opinions of elitists in NY, DC, and LA who totally hate her and proclaim to think that she's laughable, but at the same rate can't stop thinking about her and attacking her, her family, and everything about her?

It's interesting, I've never considered going to a book signing and throwing things at the authors I've been told to not like.

I'm also not aware of liberals being subject to that kind of assault and intimidation, that kind of effort to silence their dissenting voice.
While I certainly can't say it's never happened in recent years, it seems to be the M.O. of the intellectually bankrupt, brainwashed, and unoriginal political activist left usually attacking "conservatives" or recognized capitalist.

 

[fossten]

as is yours for fox.

You have that backwards, as usual. What about yours for Christians.

 

[ford nut]

No its not fun, its sad.

But if you think people can't stand her simply because of what they have been told, your sadly mistaken.

She is her own worst enemy.
If she is the best the party can do be prepared for Obama to hold two terms.

 

[fossten]

No its not fun, its sad.

But if you think people can't stand her simply because of what they have been told, your sadly mistaken.

She is her own worst enemy.
If she is the best the party can do be prepared for Obama to hold two terms.

Please tell us why people can't stand her OTHER THAN because of what they've been told. Do YOU know her personally? Didn't think so. And yet you verbally assaulted her daughter, calling her a whore, based on things you'd been told.

 

[Calabrio]

But if you think people can't stand her simply because of what they have been told, your sadly mistaken.

You've expressed hostility towards her in the past, so why don't you explain what you "can't stand about her."

She is her own worst enemy.

Again, you're makings statements that require greater clarification, otherwise they have no meaning.

How is she her 'own worst enemy.'
I can understand why you might think she's a philosophical lightweight, but I don't see how that would distinguish her the 99.5% of the politiicans currently serving in office.

If she is the best the party can do be prepared for Obama to hold two terms.

First, why are you saying she's bad?
Second, why do you presume she's running for President.
Third, why do you presume that she'd be the choice of the GOP anyway?
She's not particularly popular with the beltway crowd at all.

 

[ford nut]

Please tell us why people can't stand her OTHER THAN because of what they've been told. Do YOU know her personally? Didn't think so. And yet you verbally assaulted her daughter, calling her a whore, based on things you'd been told.

My opinion of her was formed from what has come out of Palin's mouth.
Please post a link were I called her daughter a whore.
You can't because I never did...troll.

 

[hrmwrm]

You have that backwards, as usual. What about yours for Christians.

i don't "hate" christians. but you keep believing that. it fuels your belief. what about your hatred of anti-theists?

 

[fossten]

i don't "hate" christians. but you keep believing that. it fuels your belief. what about your hatred of anti-theists?

Your avatar belies your dishonest words.

 

[fossten]

My opinion of her was formed from what has come out of Palin's mouth.

Give me an example.

 

[ford nut]

Give me an example.

Give me the link.

 

[Calabrio]

.....I just want to move this along.
I'm not aware of Ford Nut ever calling her a "whore."
I do remember Fossten characterizing what he said as "all but calling her a whore."

That was over a year ago so everyone's memory of it is undoubtedly blurred and searching for specifics here is frustratingly difficult.

Now, Ford Nut, I did ask a question of you regarding your opinion of Palin seeking greater clarification regarding what you're basing your opinion on. You formed that opinion of Palin very early on.

 

[foxpaws]

Well foss, slipping into a bit of irrationality now? Posts 43-50… whoa…

Noonan wrote some of Reagan’s speeches, but not all of them, he wrote many. Matthews wrote some of Carters, when he was in office. Heck, I contributed to writers who helped Clinton. As they move into the presidential office they have less time to craft speeches, they look to others. But, Reagan wrote some of his own books, Clinton did/does, Carter did/does. Especially their early ones. Palin starts with a ghostwriter, she had the time – why not ‘in her own words?’.

So, needless to say I think that it was only some right wing nut blogger that said that Ayers told him at the airport that he wrote Obama’s book… big hearsay…

I stand by my ghostwriting claim – I liked Living History – but do I think I am reading Hillary, not entirely. The book was good, but much of it doesn’t sound like her.

My Life – 2.8 million (and heck – the 1,000 pages has deterred some), It Takes A Village – over one million/10th Printing. Palin’s numbers are strong – but, will they hold – we will see… I think they will for a while. They might pick up again if she does make her campaign official.

So, yes, Cal – I don’t particularly like Palin as a political leader. You might bash Obama tons – and I don’t call you on that as irrational dislike. I don’t like Palin because to even think of her as the leader of the free world makes me actually frightened. I believe that is how you feel about Obama – and I don’t call you on that, there is no reason to.

I am critiquing the book – it is folksy – I did say it could be the veneer of ghostwriting. I didn’t say Palin was folksy I said the book was, and once again, I have been very clear – I have read 30 pages of it… I would have stopped there, it was that bad. But, since it no doubt will somewhat define the next couple of years regarding Palin, I will read the parts that are political in scope. I don’t need to read where it bashes the McCain campaign, or waxes poetic (poorly I might add – read Jack London if you want Alaska) about the Alaskan night. I would like to read where she clearly states her stands on political issues. Hopefully that is in there.

And yes, if you are good politically, if you see a threat, you go after it early, and often. If Franken seemed to be itching to run for President, you don’t think the GOP would be sharpening their claws and going after him now?

Palin also quit. You can excuse it away, but the reason she gave, that the distracters were hindering her ability to do her job is just silly. Look at the distracters every president has had, and in the last 3 it has gotten terrible. From Clinton to Bush to Obama, the outside badgering, law suits, etc., has gone from bad to worse. And yet, they do their job. But, for Palin, that is the most politically correct answer she could have given, blame someone else. A classic political ploy. If she is considering running for president, then stepping down to do that, could have hurt her politically. If she wanted to get the book out, have fun on the book tour, and make money- it would have been a serious blow to any political aspirations she might have had. Quitting the job that she was voted in to do is a big black mark against her in my book. You don’t quit. If you are in the reserves and you get called up to fight, you don’t quit. The job has changed, but you signed up knowing it could, and you go and fight. If you get voted in to be governor, but the job gets tough, you get tough. President could be perhaps the toughest job in the world. If Sarah thought she had distracters in Alaska, the sh!t she would have to deal with in Washington is 10 times that. She couldn’t handle the small doses in Alaska, there is no way she could handle the way they sling it in DC. She might put on a tough girl attitude, but she isn’t. Hillary is tough, Palin isn’t.

 

[ford nut]

.....I just want to move this along.
I'm not aware of Ford Nut ever calling her a "whore."
I do remember Fossten characterizing what he said as "all but calling her a whore."

That was over a year ago so everyone's memory of it is undoubtedly blurred and searching for specifics here is frustratingly difficult.

Now, Ford Nut, I did ask a question of you regarding your opinion of Palin seeking greater clarification regarding what you're basing your opinion on. You formed that opinion of Palin very early on.

Yes I did form it very early.
She is too much God and Guns for me.
Now is that bad?
Maybe not for the far right but I think its bad for the party as a whole.

I would like to see the right have more power.

I think they need to come more towards the middle for this to happen.

That does not mean I think she is a bad person???
NO
She is doing what she believes is the right thing.
I think she uses religion as a tool, and it bothers me.
It really is that simple, that opinion comes from what she says, not from what I read in the media.

I assume she is going to run because she is keeping herself in the spotlight.
It would be easy for her to fade away if that is what she wanted.
I don't think she will be the choice of the GOP.
I agree 100% she is not popular with moderate Republicans.
We all know the left can't stand her.

 

[MonsterMark]

President could be perhaps the toughest job in the world.

Obama must not have gotten your memo...

 

[Calabrio]

Noonan wrote some of Reagan’s speeches, but not all of them, he wrote many.

Just to support what you're saying-
Even as President, Reagan reviewed and rewrote most of the speeches that were written for him. Being a speech writer for Reagan was an extremely difficult job because of Reagan's own recognized ability and distinct speaking "voice."

Palin starts with a ghostwriter, she had the time – why not ‘in her own words?’.

First, you're failing to note the difference in the situation.

She wasn't just releasing a low-selling book prior to launching a campaign that no one would read. It seems like every national candidate releases a low-volume book before running for national audience. The desire to have a co-writer assist in the book in order to get it ready for such an accelerated release is reasonable.

Second, Bill Clinton and Al Gore both used ghost writers. If I remember correct, it was a guy named Will North.

Hillary's first major book, "It Takes a Village" was ghost written, arguably completely written, by Barbara Feinman.

UNLIKE the Clinton trifecta I just mentioned, Palin had a CO-AUTHOR not a GHOSTWRITER.

So you're attempting to make a distinction here that is completely unfair and misleading.

So, yes, Cal – I don’t particularly like Palin as a political leader. You might bash Obama tons – and I don’t call you on that as irrational dislike.

And that would be because I base my lack of support for Obama on his ACTIONS. I will also, gladly, explain what those actions and policies are, why they are destructive and how they hurt this country. So, by definition, that would be a RATIONAL dislike for the politician.

Perhaps you have a "rational" dislike of Gov. Palin.
Rarely, if ever, have I seen a discussion of her ever address those things anywhere.

I don’t like Palin because to even think of her as the leader of the free world makes me actually frightened. I believe that is how you feel about Obama – and I don’t call you on that, there is no reason to.

Actually, I've explained that numerous times and I readily will explain why Obama is a bad head of state. Why would you be "frightened" to have Palin as head of state?

And mind you, I'm not arguing that she's the best choice for President, I have my own sets of reservations about her. But they are rational and I can express my concerns. That's something I doubt you've ever been asked to do.

I am critiquing the book – it is folksy – I did say it could be the veneer of ghostwriting. I didn’t say Palin was folksy I said the book was, and once again, I have been very clear – I have read 30 pages of it… I would have stopped there, it was that bad.

You've attacked the book from every direction you can think of, and from there you used it as an attack on the ability of Palin.

By the way, is there anything wrong or inappropriate about a mid-western woman who lives in Alaska having a voice that you, with your more metropolitan perspective, view as a bit "folksy?"

You certainly don't have to enjoy the read, and I don't challenge your opinion on the readability on it.

But, since it no doubt will somewhat define the next couple of years regarding Palin, I will read the parts that are political in scope.

Why bother?
Why don't you put the book away considering you've already made a decision on it, refrain from passing judgment, and see what happens next in her career.

I don’t need to read where it bashes the McCain campaign,

Bashes or simply recounts what took place?
Personally, that campaign deserves to be bashed, you won't find it in that book.

or waxes poetic (poorly I might add – read Jack London if you want Alaska) about the Alaskan night.

...seriously, you're going to compare her little memoir against Jack London?
Another Foxpaws, death by a thousand paper cuts, attack prose.

I would like to read where she clearly states her stands on political issues. Hopefully that is in there.

Political "issues" or principles?

And yes, if you are good politically, if you see a threat, you go after it early, and often. If Franken seemed to be itching to run for President, you don’t think the GOP would be sharpening their claws and going after him now?

Al Franken?
No, it'd be a waste of energy.
And tactically foolish.

Palin also quit. You can excuse it away, but the reason she gave, that the distracters were hindering her ability to do her job is just silly

Again, I don't consider myself a Palin political supporter.
I think she's a compelling person, but I'm not sold on her.

However, i think her move to quit, though a political liability, was not the move of a quiter, and most likely the best decision for the state of Alaska.

Look at the distracters every president has had, and in the last 3 it has gotten terrible.

Completely different situation. Your comparing Presidents to the Governor of Alaska. The legal, political, and economic impact and scale are very different. It's truly an apples/orange comparison.

It's always interesting to see how you repeat the party-line talking point on these issues though. It's nice to know in advance what the official arguments I'll be encountering over the next few months will be.

She might put on a tough girl attitude, but she isn’t. Hillary is tough, Palin isn’t.

I don't know... I never saw Palin cry onstage because she was behind in the polls during a primary race.

YouTube- Hillary cries, with subtitles!

YouTube- Clinton Wells Up: 'This Is Very Personal'

 

[Calabrio]

Yes I did form it very early.
She is too much God and Guns for me.
Now is that bad?
Maybe not for the far right but I think its bad for the party as a whole.

What does that mean? That's she's religious and supports the second amendment?

But it looks like your confirming what I said earlier. You're accepting the biased and skewed image of her provided you through the lens of the mainstream media and accepting it?

From a policy standpoint, do you have something to base this negative "God and guns" premise on? Anything she said? I just don't understand it.

I think they need to come more towards the middle for this to happen.

Again, what does that mean?
Moderate their positions on what?
How do you conceptualize that as happening?

Marxism-lite?
Soft-socialism?
Maybe only respecting the constitution on days that have the letter "r" in them?

What about if they were just constitutionally minded Federalists?

She is doing what she believes is the right thing.
I think she uses religion as a tool, and it bothers me.
It really is that simple, that opinion comes from what she says, not from what I read in the media.

Please, just give me an example of what that means.
I'm not asking for a link to an article with a quote... I'm not trying to make homework for you, just understand what you're thinking.
Just let me know what you remember that gave you this impression- what the image is.

I assume she is going to run because she is keeping herself in the spotlight.
It would be easy for her to fade away if that is what she wanted.

She might just be a pundit or commentator.
Or even just a way for a third-party, or coalition party to fundraise.

I don't think she will be the choice of the GOP.
I agree 100% she is not popular with moderate Republicans.

What the hell is a "moderate" Republican? A liberal who supports limited tax cuts?

She's not popular with the establishment Republicans. The North Eastern Republicans. The big government, progressive Republicans.

We all know the left can't stand her.

The political left and the column of useful idiots can't stand anyone that stands in their way.

 

[foxpaws]

Actually Bill wrote My Life in longhand – however North was tasked with gathering it up. He was the editor in this case – not the ghostwriter.

I haven’t argued that Hillary’s books were ghostwritten – they were. Village wasn’t completely written by Feinman – it was Hillary’s concepts and she dictated a lot to Feinman who then did the job of ghost writer - she fleshed it out. Feinman has always been angry (probably with cause) that she wasn’t credited. How much you read regarding the ‘birthing’ of the book certainly probably has to do with sour grapes.

I don’t think that there is co-authorship credit on Going Rogue-is there? It looks like just Sarah Palin not even a “with”. The LOC/Publisher page certainly only lists Palin. (I just called)

So, reasons I don’t think that Palin would make a good leader of the free world.

Small town/small state/small nation. Her solutions are centered around a small town look at the world, and it appears she believes that her small town solutions can be reworked to work for world power. She did that as governor, and only had some success because she was dealing with an extremely small state. I think as a governor of a large, diverse, and more complex state, such as New York or California she would have failed.. And certainly on a national level it would be disastrous. Listening to her it appears that she thinks in that mind set.

I think she would appear weak and naive to other world powers. Perhaps perception, perhaps some reality, but very bad. I think we were somewhat a victim of that on 9-11. Bush certainly wasn’t perceived as a world leader – I think he was tested. I think Palin would be as well.

I don’t think she has much of a grasp of world history. You are destined to make the same mistakes if you don’t know about them.

I don’t think she has a good concept of federal law. I really would wonder if she does understand legal ramifications of certain actions.

I don’t think of her as someone who would be willing to compromise. It is a hard lesson to learn, but most laws are ‘compromise’.

The religion, abortion, gay rights, issues, etc. are all out there as well – however those are more ‘personal’ reasons in my case.

There are others - but Cal, since it appears you haven't embraced all that is Sarah, I would be interested in your reasons for 'caution'.

As far as bashing – yes, it is her viewpoint – without ‘equal’ time. It is bashing, because it is only her side of the story. From what little I have seen of the ‘bashing’ part she is quick to lay blame, but not quick to take responsibility.

Hey- attack prose – it is there. Sorry – I have done my fair share of it… hard to get away from it. But, if you read Palin’s book, it is trying to be more than a political memoir. Once again – read the first 30 pages – it attempts to find texture, atmosphere, it is trying to create a world. It failed in the first 30 pages. From what I read it certainly was trying to be more than a standard little political book to get your name out there. Almost as though the writer knew it was destined to actually be ‘read’ and so they tried to be a ‘real’ book. They would have been better served to be a political book, and not to have delved into 'writing'.

I still think of her as a quitter (another reason not to embrace her as a political candidate) – she should have stuck it out. My opinion. I think it did Alaska far more harm than good. She is an excellent spokesperson for Alaska. The wackiness of the lawsuits et al were dying down, and if she would have just worked hard – and not gone for the fame, she could have gotten her agenda through. The cult of Sarah could have been put on a back burner for 18 months, while she finished her job. However, I think she rather likes the cult of Sarah. Her and Obama do have something in common there.

Hillary may have cried, but she is tough as nails. Strong people do cry Cal – it isn’t a sign of weakness.