K&N filter

Pete02LSE said:
So...you are saying that you picked up 4 tenths with just the LLSOC intake? What was your mph? I'm not going to call BS just yet...but...consider the following:

LS weight ~ 3700 lbs
To gain 4 tenths, you would need to pick up 20 horsepower
What were the track/weather conditions each time?
What was your 60 ft?
Did you dyno before and after the intake?
Click to expand...

Actually, it was more like 0.44 gain (15.55 vs 15.11). And isn't the rule of thumb 10HP ~= 0.1s in the 1/4mi? But you are right, I can't attribute the entire gain to the CAI, it was ~30F cooler w/ the CAI run. 60's were pretty much the same, 2.2 range IIRC. Trap was low 92s pre-CAI. So allowing ~ 0.1sec / 10F, the CAI probably gave me ~15HP. Link to my CAI run is in the timeslip section.

Considering that the gain from a cat-back is about the same but costs nearly double, the CAI is a bargain by comparison.
 
I wish every day was 65 to 70 degrees. Man the little bit of winter we get here is missed dearly when it passes. Cold air = free horse power.
 
I think quik LS's setup provides the best gain, the filter is completely sealed (looks like it at least), and all air is drawn in from either the scoop or the tubing from the fog light area. No hot air from engine bay, less restriction before MAF than stock.
 
SurfjaxLS said:
I think quik LS's setup provides the best gain, the filter is completely sealed (looks like it at least), and all air is drawn in from either the scoop or the tubing from the fog light area. No hot air from engine bay, less restriction before MAF than stock.
Click to expand...


He is certainly commited to adding performance to this vehicle. It is a bold mold and very attractive. It certainly gives the car some teeth.
 
thanx guys.


the setup I use (beside the hood inlet and air box):
- oversized green filter
- aluminum venturi
- aluminum intake

The intake does make a difference over the stock setup.

the stock intake:
- has air baffling that is designed to counter resonate reducing certain frequencies - reducing noise
- has tighter turns causing back pressure and turbulence
- non-smooth surfaces causing back pressure and turbulence


Think of it like this -
air flowing over and airplane wing is smooth and fast - if you introduce something rough on the wing surface - it causes airflow disruption and slows the air speed down

You are right - this is probably only a (small) factor at WOT, butterfly wide open - but isn't that when we always measure the performance of our cars?

I'll take every little bit I can get.
 
While I didn't argue that it provided some sort of an increase...I simply questioned how much...and how much in relation to a gutted airbox.

To find this out...I think someone needs to post up back to back dyno runs. That's the only way to settle this. I've been wanting to dyno our LSE since we got it and I can do so with the stock airbox and with a gutted stock airbox. We can see what sort of difference there is. However, I do not have access to an LLSOC intake or the KKM. Is there anyone in the metro Atlanta area that has one that could be used? I'd even be willing to remove my airbox and install it on another car. It really doesn't matter much who's car it's done on...as long as it's consistent.

Or...I'd like to think that someone over and LLSOC has a dyno graph of one with ONLY the intake mod. To me...that's the best way to sell a product...especially one that is $300.

My $.02.

-Pete
02 LSE
 
Pete02LSE said:
While I didn't argue that it provided some sort of an increase...I simply questioned how much...and how much in relation to a gutted airbox.

Or...I'd like to think that someone over and LLSOC has a dyno graph of one with ONLY the intake mod. To me...that's the best way to sell a product...especially one that is $300.

My $.02.

-Pete
02 LSE
Click to expand...

I concur. in order to legitimize the component something needs to be offered up in the way of statistics. I think the overwhelming thing that undermines its legitimacy is the fact that the site says "when paired up with the KKM" 10 to 15 HP increase can be realized.

Break out which component brings what gains and then let consumers decide. The overwhelming force of induction is constrained primarily by the throttle valve once opened just like electricity air will tend to flow along the path of least resistance and the inner diameter of that tube is greater than the throttle body.

I agree with I will take my gains where I can get them but you must be mind full of the law of returns. How much more dense is the stainless than the plastic? You must take mass into consideration as well what have you gained and what was the expense and I do not mean monetarily.
 
Pete02LSE said:
While I didn't argue that it provided some sort of an increase...I simply questioned how much...and how much in relation to a gutted airbox.

To find this out...I think someone needs to post up back to back dyno runs. That's the only way to settle this. I've been wanting to dyno our LSE since we got it and I can do so with the stock airbox and with a gutted stock airbox. We can see what sort of difference there is. However, I do not have access to an LLSOC intake or the KKM. Is there anyone in the metro Atlanta area that has one that could be used? I'd even be willing to remove my airbox and install it on another car. It really doesn't matter much who's car it's done on...as long as it's consistent.

Or...I'd like to think that someone over and LLSOC has a dyno graph of one with ONLY the intake mod. To me...that's the best way to sell a product...especially one that is $300.

My $.02.

-Pete
02 LSE
Click to expand...

I have an 03 with the LLSOC intake. I still have my old intake too. Where in Atlanta can I do a before and after dyno run? I can swap the components in less than 10 minutes...
 
Kelleyo said:
I have an 03 with the LLSOC intake. I still have my old intake too. Where in Atlanta can I do a before and after dyno run? I can swap the components in less than 10 minutes...
Click to expand...

There's a place up near me in Buford called Balanced Performance Motorsports (they are an import outfit but...appear to be reputable). They used to have a dyno in their facility. I'm not sure of the brand but...I prefer the DynoJet over the Mustang...as the Mustang tends to register a bit higher than actual. There's some place over in Marietta that the annual F-Body gathering's use. That might be better suited to your location.

I'll call over to BPM tomorrow and see what they offer. If I remember correctly...they charge $100 for 3 runs. That should be enough for our test.

Is your 03 stock other than the intake?

-Pete
02 LSE
 
I did very well In calc 1,2 and 3 but i just spent a few minutes trying to find the formula for a cone and just bloodied my nose. I do not have any of my college text books to reference and I know we have few students that frequent here and I would like to call upon you to see if you can find the formula to calculate the area of a cone.

I was hoping to find an online resource that someone that has the cone filter could use but all the example refer to right cones which a a distinct point and am at a loss here.

Basically I want to get to the bottom of this surface area conundrum.
 
eL eS said:
hold your breath. I think I have it.

Ref the "The surface area, not including the top and bottom circles, is" image onthis link it is the 2nd example.

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ConicalFrustum.html

A=(R1=R2)s=pi(R1+R2)Sqrt(R1-R1)^2 + h^2

I wish I had the cone to save the poor sole that does the trouble of using this formula.
Click to expand...

One other thing to consider...the cone is pleated...therefore, you need to use and additional formula.

Here are the stats for the panel (I had to count the pleats):

Pleats: 42
Height: 0.875 in (22 mm)
Outside Length: 12.375 in (314 mm)
Outside Width: 6.563 in (167 mm)

Still trying to find the correct formula that accounts for the pleats.

-Pete
02 LSE
 
eL eS said:
oh man now it is getting intersting. Did you buyt the stainless steel snorkel as well?
Click to expand...

THe 03's don't have the SS snorkel since the intake in the front of the engine instead of the back.
 
Pete02LSE said:
I'll call over to BPM tomorrow and see what they offer. If I remember correctly...they charge $100 for 3 runs. That should be enough for our test.

Is your 03 stock other than the intake?

-Pete
02 LSE
Click to expand...

Stock except for the Intake and Magnaflow mufflers and tips. The Mufflers make it sound better but don't add any power since the 03 exhaust is already well tuned and sorted. Magnaflow never got more than 4 extra ponies with a cat back they made so they never went into production. One guy with an 03 got that prototype Magnaflow cat back...
 
Pete02LSE said:
One other thing to consider...the cone is pleated...therefore, you need to use and additional formula.

Here are the stats for the panel (I had to count the pleats):

Pleats: 42
Height: 0.875 in (22 mm)
Outside Length: 12.375 in (314 mm)
Outside Width: 6.563 in (167 mm)

Still trying to find the correct formula that accounts for the pleats.

-Pete
02 LSE
Click to expand...

very good point. Smae consideration will have to be made for the K&N replacement for the stock air box.
 
Kelleyo said:
Stock except for the Intake and Magnaflow mufflers and tips. The Mufflers make it sound better but don't add any power since the 03 exhaust is already well tuned and sorted. Magnaflow never got more than 4 extra ponies with a cat back they made so they never went into production. One guy with an 03 got that prototype Magnaflow cat back...
Click to expand...

One thing I did not realize last night...you have an 03 (must have been asleep). While this will resolve the stock airbox question...it will not resolve the intake tube question.

Thoughts?
 
Pete02LSE said:
One thing I did not realize last night...you have an 03 (must have been asleep). While this will resolve the stock airbox question...it will not resolve the intake tube question.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Well it is not a good comparison to the 00-02 LS V8's as they had 252 HP and the 03 has 280 or so.

The only thing a dyno test will tell us is if the LLSOC intake on an 03 is an improvement over the stock 03 airbox ( I believe it is and this was tested when the intake was created).

It will have no relevance to the older models and I do not know if the "tube" on those models has any effect...
 
Kelleyo said:
Well it is not a good comparison to the 00-02 LS V8's as they had 252 HP and the 03 has 280 or so.

The only thing a dyno test will tell us is if the LLSOC intake on an 03 is an improvement over the stock 03 airbox ( I believe it is and this was tested when the intake was created).

It will have no relevance to the older models and I do not know if the "tube" on those models has any effect...
Click to expand...

Does LLSOC offer an intake for the 03? I looked on the site and didn't see one. However, they do offer the KKM intake. Is that what you are talking about?

Just curious...

Oh...and I completely agree about not comparing the 00-02 and the 03+ as the intake and exhaust are different. It would be apples to oranges. However, I believe the air boxes are identical. Therefore, it would show the gain to be had by replacing just the airbox with the KKM. Even then...one could only extrapolate the gain to be had on an 00-02.

-Pete
02 LSE
 
Man.... I go skiing for one day....

Wow, we've got a lot of information chugging through here now. For the filter question... can't we just take the inner and outter dia of the filter and divide by say two to get the difference, or just measure the length and width of the pleat and add them all together? It's basically a strip that is in the shape of a helmet goggle. Just add the elements together, and there's your surface area.
 
That should work. And average the top and bottom bases and multiple by the height by 2(pi)x(average radius of top and bottom bases).

(2)(pi)(r)(h) in formula style. Then add in the extra material from the pleats.
 
if we cut it from top to bottom would we have an isosceles trapezoid? Maybe we could just use the forumla that solves for the surface area of an isosceles trapezoid.
 
If you want to work woth isosceles trapezoids, you will probably have to integrate a function that models the filter's dimensions. The halves would still have rounded sides, just semicircles now, not one circle.
 
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