Another thing,KidL,while you're into this work already, maybe you'd better take a hose and blow back thro the radiator fins and the condenser fins in front of it. There might be quite a bit of dirt in the fins,and that acts as insulation keeping the heat in the radiator.Should be easy to do once you get everything outta the way. Don't get water in the hydraulics though. don-ohio
2001 Lincoln LS8 in Virginia (757)
- Thread starter Kid_Lyrics
- Start date
Kid_Lyrics
Well-Known LVC Member
I assume you mean with a bit of water given you said "don't get water in the hydraulics?"
Kid_Lyrics
Well-Known LVC Member
DonO, Cool. I'll try that as soon as I manage to get these parts.
Do you think the hose is blowing off from the pressure being built from the heat? I would assume so.
Do you think the hose is blowing off from the pressure being built from the heat? I would assume so.
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
Okay, I'll try this one last time.
The cap on the degas bottle determines the system pressure. It has a pressure relief valve that opens at 15 or 16 PSI.
I can verify that a correctly working system does reach this pressure by the time the engine is fully warmed up.
An incorrectly working system will reach this same pressure sooner, but it should not exceed it.
Kid_Lyrics
Well-Known LVC Member
I read that the first time you wrote it. That doesn't explain why the hose would be blown off the thermostat. Which is what I'm asking for a "hypothetical" reason.
So, since you should know all. Why would the hose blow off? It's tightly clamped to the Thermostat housing. The bracket and all bolts on the radiator hose are secure.
Granted these parts are claimed to be bad. Would one of or multiple parts together blow the hose off its housing?
Best guess?
joegr
Dedicated LVC Member
I already explained that too. You are missing the end of the nipple for that hose connector. The end that broke off has the part with a slightly bigger diameter. It's this part that the clamp hits against and stops the hose from slipping off. Right now, all you have is friction holding the hose on, and that is not enough.
The part circled in red below is what holds the hose on, and your part is missing that.
There is nothing to guess at, and this is nothing that hasn't happened before. The problem is known, and so is the solution.
I wish you the best of luck here, but I think I have done all that I can...
Kid_Lyrics
Well-Known LVC Member
Got it
Well,KidL,we KNOW your thermostat is good,but your fan equipment is BAD.Ford said so.
The thing that I think will help you will not keep it from overheating while your fan is bad.
If it were mine,of course,I said that I would rig up an electric fan, even used. Now that hose should NOT blow off with the Degas cap loosened if you have a 60% antifreeze to 40% water mix and you have done the bleed perfectly.
But I can't vouch for the bad fan.
You'll never get it to keep the hose on THAT fitting with the Degas cap tight.Besides,that cap may be holding MORE than 16 psi....we don't know. So all I can tell you is I run an unpressurized,perfectly bled system, with 60/40 in every vehicle I own including my BACKHOE, that's 6 vehicles total, BUT I have no fan problems. don-ohio
^)
The thing that I think will help you will not keep it from overheating while your fan is bad.
If it were mine,of course,I said that I would rig up an electric fan, even used. Now that hose should NOT blow off with the Degas cap loosened if you have a 60% antifreeze to 40% water mix and you have done the bleed perfectly.
But I can't vouch for the bad fan.
You'll never get it to keep the hose on THAT fitting with the Degas cap tight.Besides,that cap may be holding MORE than 16 psi....we don't know. So all I can tell you is I run an unpressurized,perfectly bled system, with 60/40 in every vehicle I own including my BACKHOE, that's 6 vehicles total, BUT I have no fan problems. don-ohio
^)Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
Hey Kid, what Joe was saying about these cars being expensive just to maintain isn't a lie, and you're already starting to feel resentment towards the car. The cooling system isn't even the most expensive part of maintaining these things. Something to keep in mind about his recommendation to sell the car. My own car always has three things broken on it, and when I fix one something else breaks immediately. Currently the three things that are broken don't affect driving it, so I'm purposely not fixing them.
That being said, are any of the junkyard cars you are pulling parts from 2003-2006 models? If so this car comes with an electric fan. You could get one of these fans for a low price and install it on the car, and you will know that it's a large enough fan to keep the car cool. If nothing else it can be wired to come on when the car is started. If you go this way you can put a hose from the inlet to the outlet on the hydraulic pump on your car and not have to worry about figuring out the belt routing. Going this way, you could probably get the cooling fan problem resolved for around 50 bucks or whatever the pullapart yard charges for electric fans. Going to have to hope someone has the wiring for the fan though, so they can state what needs to be wired where to make it work. Later on, when you've built up some money, you can investigate getting a way to control the fan correctly and a way to remove the rest of the fan hydraulics.
Here's the difficult part. The PCM regulates the alternator on the 1st gen LS. The problem with this is the way they regulated it, they determined that under engine condition X, alternator output Y is required, and that is all the alternator will put out. If you have extra electrical gear on the car, the alternator will NOT put out more power to run the extra load as it will on other cars. I don't know what the allowable margin is on the LS but as others have been able to run electric fans the alternator should be good for this but if you decide to put on much more, like a heavy duty sound system, you're not going to manage it. Swapping alternators for a larger one doesn't work either, because the PCM simply won't allow it to generate more power than it thinks it needs. So far nobody's been able to figure out a workaround for this issue.
That being said, are any of the junkyard cars you are pulling parts from 2003-2006 models? If so this car comes with an electric fan. You could get one of these fans for a low price and install it on the car, and you will know that it's a large enough fan to keep the car cool. If nothing else it can be wired to come on when the car is started. If you go this way you can put a hose from the inlet to the outlet on the hydraulic pump on your car and not have to worry about figuring out the belt routing. Going this way, you could probably get the cooling fan problem resolved for around 50 bucks or whatever the pullapart yard charges for electric fans. Going to have to hope someone has the wiring for the fan though, so they can state what needs to be wired where to make it work. Later on, when you've built up some money, you can investigate getting a way to control the fan correctly and a way to remove the rest of the fan hydraulics.
Here's the difficult part. The PCM regulates the alternator on the 1st gen LS. The problem with this is the way they regulated it, they determined that under engine condition X, alternator output Y is required, and that is all the alternator will put out. If you have extra electrical gear on the car, the alternator will NOT put out more power to run the extra load as it will on other cars. I don't know what the allowable margin is on the LS but as others have been able to run electric fans the alternator should be good for this but if you decide to put on much more, like a heavy duty sound system, you're not going to manage it. Swapping alternators for a larger one doesn't work either, because the PCM simply won't allow it to generate more power than it thinks it needs. So far nobody's been able to figure out a workaround for this issue.
Kid_Lyrics
Well-Known LVC Member
@Telco: It's not the parts being expensive that's my issue. It's just at this VERY point I can't afford that price for them BECAUSE I'm missing work. See what I mean? If I was able to make it to freaking work I wouldn't even be worried about anything right now but I get your point.
However, I understand the pricey parts. The parts were just as pricey on my two Chargers that I've had. So, high prices aren't foreign to me.
I'm assuming the electrical fan will cost more given I've gotta buy a bigger Alt, Fix the PCM, buy the fan, find the wiring, and put it all together. So, I'm skipping that as I said before.
I'd rather stock it for now before modifying it. Since I know the Yard parts are much cheaper. I don't mind doing the R&R 3 times if I buy good or bad parts from those cars.
If I sell this car then I'll be even more assed-out because then I really wouldn't have a way around and wouldn't be able to afford another car in my local area. Therefore, it's not really a good idea to buy another. I'll just wait until I can replace the parts... So again, I ask to keep that suggestion out of the discussion unless I bring it up. Thanks.
However, I understand the pricey parts. The parts were just as pricey on my two Chargers that I've had. So, high prices aren't foreign to me.
I'm assuming the electrical fan will cost more given I've gotta buy a bigger Alt, Fix the PCM, buy the fan, find the wiring, and put it all together. So, I'm skipping that as I said before.
I'd rather stock it for now before modifying it. Since I know the Yard parts are much cheaper. I don't mind doing the R&R 3 times if I buy good or bad parts from those cars.
If I sell this car then I'll be even more assed-out because then I really wouldn't have a way around and wouldn't be able to afford another car in my local area. Therefore, it's not really a good idea to buy another. I'll just wait until I can replace the parts... So again, I ask to keep that suggestion out of the discussion unless I bring it up. Thanks.
Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
I dunno, folks who have done the fan conversion haven't had power issues so I'm assuming this means that the fans don't draw more than the PCM allows for. Folks who put high power stereos do have problems. Personally I wouldn't run a crappy hydraulic cooling system any longer than I absolutely had to and would convert to electric at the first possible opportunity, but it's your car.
On the used plastic cooling parts, the main reason you aren't succeeding with them is even new, they don't last 100K miles (unless you're Don, of course, in which case they last forever unless they fail). Ford specced out the wrong plastic formulation for these parts. When installed and heat cycled a few times, they kind of meld themselves to the engine. Putting them on a new engine puts new stress on them, and they break as you've seen happen repeatedly.
If you do plan to keep the car, save yourself some heartache. Buy the cooling system parts all at once, new, and replace them. If you can't swing new, you CAN replace them one at a time so long as you understand that you'll be doing a new part about every 2-3 weeks or so, and will be replacing the coolant each time. Then, plan to replace them all over again once that first part hits 100K miles.
On the used plastic cooling parts, the main reason you aren't succeeding with them is even new, they don't last 100K miles (unless you're Don, of course, in which case they last forever unless they fail). Ford specced out the wrong plastic formulation for these parts. When installed and heat cycled a few times, they kind of meld themselves to the engine. Putting them on a new engine puts new stress on them, and they break as you've seen happen repeatedly.
If you do plan to keep the car, save yourself some heartache. Buy the cooling system parts all at once, new, and replace them. If you can't swing new, you CAN replace them one at a time so long as you understand that you'll be doing a new part about every 2-3 weeks or so, and will be replacing the coolant each time. Then, plan to replace them all over again once that first part hits 100K miles.
Telco jabbed:`(unless you're Don, of course, in which case they last forever unless they fail)'
Don counterpunched: `Yeah,well WHEN a plastic part FAILS on me you'll be one of the first to know.LOL!'
Only thing that failed on it'KidL, was either an idler pulley,water pump bearing,or tensioner pulley,and I replaced ALL that,so of course I put in a new Ford thermostat with housing and put my perfectly fine used thermostat and housing in the trunk as a spare.
He's giving good advice about the electric fan and buying all new plastic. Yours has failed. If you pressurize a bad plastic part,or even a fair one,it might burst. don-ohio^)
Don counterpunched: `Yeah,well WHEN a plastic part FAILS on me you'll be one of the first to know.LOL!'
Only thing that failed on it'KidL, was either an idler pulley,water pump bearing,or tensioner pulley,and I replaced ALL that,so of course I put in a new Ford thermostat with housing and put my perfectly fine used thermostat and housing in the trunk as a spare.
He's giving good advice about the electric fan and buying all new plastic. Yours has failed. If you pressurize a bad plastic part,or even a fair one,it might burst. don-ohio
^)Telco
Dedicated LVC Member
Yeah, I'm getting a kick out of the whole pressure thing.
Yeah,it's gonna be awful hard to explain all those blown hoses and parts in the future.Only thing I"M sick of is seeing unnecessary expense and headache that pressurized systems cause on OLD cars. don-ohio ^)
^)Kid_Lyrics
Well-Known LVC Member
I can deal with the constant tear-down and replace of parts so long as it solves the problem. I don't mind doing the repetitive tasks if its helping the situation.
1LoudLS
Dedicated LVC Member
but can you can handle the constant tear down?
bottom line is that it is not helping any situation, in fact it can be making things a lot worse...
if the system keeps failing over and over, you are adding a sh!t ton of unneeded stress to the car. this will only cost you more money as you go, especially when something major happens all because the car was poorly maintained.
#GotAQuarterTankOfGasInMyNewEClass...
Kid_Lyrics
Well-Known LVC Member
Alright. I'm just going to stop posting until I solve the issue.
Reason being:
1. I understand that selling the car may be necessity in your eyes. However, as much as ya'll say I should, I'm not nor can I.
2. I have understanding of parts replacement and such when either a whole system has failed or a certain number of parts have failed in it. Replacing one and not
all at the same time, etc etc. I know that results in doing repetitive work, replacing parts, doing things over and over. I'm no stranger to it as I did it in the
military for a number of years. Maybe that's why the constant pointing out of doing things constantly doesn't bother me. <shrug>
3. No one seems to get what I'm saying as far as replacing these parts. All I see everyone saying is replace them at once or buy a new car.
4. I just have nothing further to say.
Ya'll take it easy.
Reason being:
1. I understand that selling the car may be necessity in your eyes. However, as much as ya'll say I should, I'm not nor can I.
2. I have understanding of parts replacement and such when either a whole system has failed or a certain number of parts have failed in it. Replacing one and not
all at the same time, etc etc. I know that results in doing repetitive work, replacing parts, doing things over and over. I'm no stranger to it as I did it in the
military for a number of years. Maybe that's why the constant pointing out of doing things constantly doesn't bother me. <shrug>
3. No one seems to get what I'm saying as far as replacing these parts. All I see everyone saying is replace them at once or buy a new car.
4. I just have nothing further to say.
Ya'll take it easy.
RigsLS
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WOW!!! :Bang Just WOW!!!
The fact (as Joe already pointed out) that the plastic ridge (deteriorated/missing/broken) where the hose clasps onto, not being there to do it's job as intended, PROBABLY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT !!!! .... Incredible you are!
Kid_Lyrics
Well-Known LVC Member
Ok, the fact that you two are arguing on my thread is about to stop. Go argue somewhere else.
I've got a spare one from the last setup that I can put on no problem.
I was thinking that, however, I'm just going to swap it out tomorrow.
I've got a spare one from the last setup that I can put on no problem.
I was thinking that, however, I'm just going to swap it out tomorrow.
RigsLS
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