Gen1 to Gen2 Pros and cons

[1LoudLS]

Just gotta watch those welds on the intake.

who cares if dom and the mad scientist has to tear apart the motor because the rings are fried, he almost had him

 

[Morbid Intentions]

why someone would mod an LS... or even spend money into making it a little tiny bit quicker than dog slow is beyond me

there are few boosted and juiced LS's and they are pulling slower times than a tune only GTO lol.... I just enjoy the car for what it is, a good ride on trips and that little bit of pep to only slightly pull ahead of a honda civic xD

IDK, the whole V6 vs. V8 argument is lame... has been even in the mustang category... it always ends with the V8 guys on a power trip and the V6 guys proving that the V6 is a better bang for buck (at least the 3.8L essex is)... so nevermind horsepower and all that lame crap... it's just personal opinion really... even how fast the LS is happens to be personal opinion

 

[1LoudLS]

the V6 mustang has 300 hp and 31 miles to the gallon

the V8 mustang GT had 300hp just a couple years back

thank you professor X

and the V6 from back then only had 210 out of four liters and the 3.8 from even further back had even less.

i believe you put it the most eloquently when you said

its always going to have a better engine in the new car. its called technology

now on to the more important part, whats that got to do with anything?

 

[1LoudLS]

why someone would mod an LS... or even spend money into making it a little tiny bit quicker than dog slow is beyond me

why would anyone even bother to mod a GTO, i mean if you really wanted to go fast, you should just buy a ZR1!

...so nevermind horsepower and all that lame crap...

is that why you have your horse power and torque # listed in your sig

 

[Morbid Intentions]

why would anyone even bother to mod a GTO, i mean if you really wanted to go fast, you should just buy a ZR1!


is that why you have your horse power and torque # listed in your sig

You probably are too dense to understand what I am trying to tell you is all....

You can take the Gto into ZR1 territory with an entire setup cost of around 5-7k in both performance nods and suspension/traction mods... the ls is a pointless platform to argue horsepower numbers with because it will never be about horsepower... espessially now that freaking escallades are now able to outpace us genII V8 folk... but it seems you have a hard on for the ls and as I've learned moderating other sites you just cannot have a rational talk with a fanboy... for rational people though, you have to look at it from our eyes... you are arguing 30bhp for a 3900lbs 15 second platform... it wasn't even worth bringing up in the first place lol

All that being said even with my Gto horsepower numbers and dyno graphs are still pretty useless... dyno racing is a joke, and if anything my Sig numbers in comparison to my actual 1/4 mile time only proves that peak horsepower is just another pointless garbage number that doesn't mean much

 

[pektel]

I didn't buy the LS to have the fastest car. Although, fast is relative. There are probably many circles who laugh at modded goats too (try visiting l4p and see what they think). Do "I" think the GTO's are fast? Sure. Faster than an LS? Of course. But we are comparing apples and oranges when comparing a gto to a 4 door luxo barge.

Speaking of boosted/juiced LSes, have you checked out this thread? 745whp and 540 or so tq from... you guessed it... an LS.

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=63547&highlight=baddest

 

[Morbid Intentions]

I didn't buy the LS to have the fastest car. Although, fast is relative. There are probably many circles who laugh at modded goats too. Do "I" think the GTO's are fast? Sure. Faster than an LS? Of course. But we are comparing apples and oranges when comparing a gto to a 4 door luxo barge.

Speaking of boosted/juiced LSes, have you checked out this thread? 745whp and 540 or so tq from... you guessed it... an LS.

http://www.lincolnvscadillac.com/showthread.php?t=63547&highlight=baddest

That's all well and fine, I already said it was subjective and just my opinion from square one... although you cannot call a 4.6L modular powered car an ls anymore... all of my comments were directed at the fact that all of the engines that were picked for the ls platform has no aftermarket potential at all... if I wanted a fast sleeper of the same pedegree that I planned to mod I would have bought a marauder and fixed a trilogy screamer to it with some 3.73's and sticky 305's... not looking to argue about it though

 

[pektel]

Agreed. Always wanted a Marauder.

 

[1LoudLS]

You probably are too dense to understand what I am trying to tell you is all....

your definitely right there

you are arguing 30bhp for a 3900lbs 15 second platform

which for a 2 ton daily driver that is already underpowered, every little bit helps, especially since i have owned both and know exactly how big of a difference it will make, I was just trying to offer some advise to the OP since he would be the one getting the car, he may agree with me or he may not, its his choice to make.

you are also correct, i do love the LS, do i think that it is perfect, not even close. however i do also like many other cars, if a car is great enough to earn appreciation. ive got nothing against the GTO, but you ask why even bother to mod an LS and the point is, for the exact same reason you mod any car.

and you know what, an LS doesn't have to be a 14 second car if the owner wants it to be faster

so its no longer an LS because it had an engine swap, does a mustang or camaro stop being what it is because it had a motor swap

 

[Morbid Intentions]

your definitely right there



which for a 2 ton daily driver that is already underpowered, every little bit helps, especially since i have owned both and know exactly how big of a difference it will make, I was just trying to offer some advise to the OP since he would be the one getting the car, he may agree with me or he may not, its his choice to make.

you are also correct, i do love the LS, do i think that it is perfect, not even close. however i do also like many other cars, if a car is great enough to earn appreciation. ive got nothing against the GTO, but you ask why even bother to mod an LS and the point is, for the exact same r reason you mod any car.

and you know what, an LS doesn't have to be a 14 second car if the owner wants it to be faster



so its no longer an LS because it had an engine swap, does a mustang or camaro stop being what it is because it had a motor swap

That's fine, my opinion wasn't supposed to be forced... everyone can have theirs too, I just simply do not see the aftermarket potential in the ls... and yes, if key components of the original car are replaced with something else or missing altogether the car becomes a drag car and nothing more to compare to its stock component bretheren... I've seen an ls body with dual intake manifolds out of a sliced open hood and a gigantic OHV block... to still compare that to stockish cars is like comparing a regular vw bug with a V8 hanging off the back to a civic to say the vw's stock horsepower rating has some bearing on it

 

[rainjacks]

My 2 cents on the LS being a performance or sports car is in my sig. Morbid, you haven't been on this thread long enough to realize this conversation has been beaten like a crack whore. Although I will point out that you have correctly stated the subjective nature of the argument. Most people involved in one of these discussions have historically not been able to see past their own nose to realize there is always someone faster. It was rather pointless to question why someone would mod an LS. The answer as has been determined by this forum in the past is - becuase you can. We all know your GTO has some power and can put in some nice numbers. Take that crap over to a GTO forum and post up what your LS does on this forum. Quik doesn't try to make comparisons between his Lotus and our LSs.

My dad told me years back that one of the most fun accomplishments in fishing is to catch a big fish on really light tackle. The same feeling of accomplishment is available in seeing how far the LS platform can go. Remember also that it wasn't ever designed for straight line performance. It was designed to beat the 5 series on the Nurburgring which it did.

To the OP, I've got the V8 and it kicks ass. The V6 will most likely be more reliable as it has the Duratech engine which historically has been very solid.

 

[MMAFIGHTER121]

Why mod anything ever? Just take the lambo to work. Duh. Evreryone should always just buy the best car out the gates. Why did you mod your gto? Corvettes are faster and handle better. I don't think anyone asked should I buy a GTO instead? There are fun and crazy LSs out there, and its better than your average daily cruiser on the thruway. Noone here was laying 10 second car claims. Get off yoyour high horse and relax. We get it. You have a gto. To the OP: The v6 is pretty bulletproof, better balanced, and better mpg. V8 more power, makes a great sound. Gen 2 v8 saw improvements, v6 - notsomuch.

 

[Morbid Intentions]

Why mod anything ever? Just take the lambo to work. Duh. Evreryone should always just buy the best car out the gates. Why did you mod your gto? Corvettes are faster and handle better. I don't think anyone asked should I buy a GTO instead? There are fun and crazy LSs out there, and its better than your average daily cruiser on the thruway. Noone here was laying 10 second car claims. Get off yoyour high horse and relax. We get it. You have a gto. To the OP: The v6 is pretty bulletproof, better balanced, and better mpg. V8 more power, makes a great sound. Gen 2 v8 saw improvements, v6 - notsomuch.

I didn't bring up my Gto as far as a direct comparison discussion tough guy, loudls did...

Also, I never claimed a 12 second car was "fast" in my opinion either.... I bought the GTO because its a vette that seats 4 more comfortably... and its not fast by any means as it sits, but the platform can be taken to 10's with the stock shortblock and can be modded and roused easily with a vast array of aftermarket parts, hence my point... but thanks for the fantasy land rant

When people can stop and realize my standpoint is because it takes a small fortune, specially fabbed parts and an immense amount of time and work just to see 12's is why I think modding an LS is pointless... not because I own a GTO, I already compared the modding potential of a marauder in comparison and how it's better than the LS so this GTO rant leaves me confused as to why you felt the need to whine about it

 

[Morbid Intentions]

before I hit the bed I remembered an older disagreement I had with a member of this site that fits perfectly with this disagreement and comparing the two should show some light as to how much sense my standpoint actually makes

a member from long ago once made the comment that dodge dakota R/T's (with the 5.9L magnums) are "fast ass trucks" or something to that effect... fast for what they are... little things like that... and when I tried to tell him that at the strip they turn 15.9's and that they are slow as hell he blew up about how it's a truck this and it's a truck that and blah blah blah... and frankly, all I had to bring up as a logical wrench in his works is the SVT lightning... a more logical choice for a fast pickup, great aftermarket support and cost, and it's already about 2 whole seconds faster in the 1/4 right out of the gates

now... this disagreement, you guys are so hung up on my GTO and thinking that I believe it's so high and mighty and that you think I'm actually comparing it to the LS... that you are overlooking the fact the same exact engine and drivetrain is in the CTS on the same year... the SAME EXACT LUXURY SPORT CLASS, and that even a regular base model V8 300C will run far ahead of the LS... this whole ford, dodge and chevy lineup all can be compared given the same 2005 year so as not to get lost in the time argument... nevermind the fact that the LS is the slowest out of the group by a fairly substantial margin, just forget that large fact altogether as that wasn't one of the main points I was trying to bring up... focus on the fact that the CTS-V's and 300C's aftermarket list spans PAGES.. and the LS's is a ghetto rigged CAI and a simple catback.... again... THIS is more or less my point... that in a world where even now Cadillac's 3.6L V6 outperforms our 3.9L V8 you have to look at other cars in it's class and just go "why?!"

look at the 335i... 12's with a tune, mid 13's stock... same exact category of car, both around the same price when comparing new to new

I really don't know what else to say... I understand if you don't agree with my views 100% but at some point I'd expect you guys to go "well.... that is a really good point"

 

[1LoudLS]

I didn't bring up my Gto as far as a direct comparison discussion tough guy, loudls did...

for the sole reason to show you why we mod our cars, (that you seem to think is pointless) which is the exactly the same reason you modded your car, plain and simple. you bought your car(GTO, not the LS) because there was something about the car that made you say,"this is the one that i'm going to spend hard earned dollars for" and just like the rest of us, you where not 100% happy with the way the factory decided to build it, so you spent more of your money to make it better or closer to what you wanted.

why I think modding an ls is pointless...

because its different. every cobra, Z28, GTO, trans am, SRT that you see on the road is fast, how often do you see a bad A$$ lincoln at the light next to you, exactly

it takes a small fortune and an immense amount of work just to see 12's

if it was easy, it would just be the way

if i wanted a really fast car, and wanted it to be super easy, and i didn't want to spend a lot of money, all i would have to do is buy a cheap a$$ fox body and pickup a catalog and start ordering

theres no LS section in the summit racing mag, it not a sports car, its a heavy a$$ euro luxury box, and to see one that really moves or sounds good is just plain cool. all the really sweet LS's have all been one of a kind, hand built works of art, and if you cant appreciate or respect that, then i just cant understand why you even bother to come here, it sure not for the since of community that we all get talking and bullsh!tting around with people that think(at least partially) and feel the same way as we do.

 

[Morbid Intentions]

but that's just it... the only quick lincoln I'm going to see at a stoplight next to me is one with the ecoboost engine... because nobody is willing to take the time needed with the LS because what I say is fact... the people that do take the time needed with the original engine barely break 12's... and the people that have the money to buy the platform and swap an engine in are few and far between.... with both of these aspects and the rarity of these "Badass LS's" you speak of... it's kind of proving my outlook correct

I could go on and on and on about how there are 9 second GTO's when someone with an 11 second GT500 starts making fun on my 12 second GTO... but I don't, because I've learned that just sounds like a fanboy grasping at straws as to why he's slower... at the end of the day it's about what YOU drive, not what other people create with aftermarket blocks... do you plan on having a 10 second monster in your LS?



didn't think so...

I get along great with most of this forum, at least i have in the past... like I said before, I think you are just upset that I am speaking ill of the LS in the LS section.... the same way I talk ill of the mustangs that deserve to be spoken ill about on the mustang forum I moderate, even though I love mustangs

and that is what divides a fanboy and an automotive enthusiast... being able to see a car for a car for what it can do factually and not a make and model and how it's better is a wonderful thing

also, where did I say I didn't/wouldn't respect someone that makes a fast LS? I would actually love that, but good luck and I know there isn't one person in this thread that will accomplish that feat so what is the point to parade with the thought... I guess that is just the realist coming out in me

 

[1LoudLS]

a member from long ago once made the comment that dodge dakota R/T's (with the 5.9L magnums) are "fast ass trucks" or something to that effect... fast for what they are... little things like that... and when I tried to tell him that at the strip they turn 15.9's and that they are slow as hell he blew up

again, why do you need to tell him what he should like, or what he should get, or what he should think is cool, if he thinks dakota's are the sh!t, then more power to him, one of my aunts had an old durrango R/T, was it the fastest thing around, hell no, but with two tone suede seats, factory 19's, tinted out, sport suspension, and a fair amount of power, it was a nice looking little beast to cruise around town with 6 of your buddies, there will always be something better and faster, as i said before if you really wanted something fast you could buy a ZR1, but then sooner or later you pull up next to a old a$$ beat up fox body that runs a 10-11 1/4, i bet the corvette guy doesn't think that he wasted his money.

that you are overlooking the fact the same exact engine and drivetrain is in the CTS on the same year... the SAME EXACT LUXURY SPORT CLASS, and that even a regular base model V8 300C will run far ahead of the LS... this whole ford, dodge and chevy lineup all can be compared given the same 2005 year so as not to get lost in the time argument...
look at the 335i...

sorry, i will never consider a foreign car and Chevy or Chrysler didn't pay for everything i had growing up, Ford however did pay for EVERYTHING that both pairs of my grandparents had, Ford did pay for everything my parents had, Ford even help pay for my college, and during my uncle's fight with cancer, the insurance that Ford provided through his retirement payed more money than any of us will ever see in life. and for that every car that i have owned so far has been a Ford product, and im pretty sure that every one from here on out will be too, for the money i spent on this car i could have bought a cobra that would give you a run for you money, but thats not what i liked, the LS is

 

[PetesSweets86]

god damnit where's ILLS when ya need him...I need a damn tune

 

[Morbid Intentions]

sorry, i will never consider a foreign car and Chevy or Chrysler

and this is where the term "fanboy" comes from


and the durango guy said the truck was fast... and it isn't, I didn't tell him that it was crap or his choice in trucks is wrong or anything of the sort... I just said it was not fast like he claims and "this" is what a fast pickup is... must like I'm doing with you, but you don't want to hear about how our platform got passed up by, now, entry level spots sedans

you seem to like putting words in people mouths


at this point I will agree to disagree with you, I know what the LS is and what potential it has as far as performance... and that's that

 

[1LoudLS]

and this is where the term "fanboy" comes from

well if having loyality, and supporting the company that supported my family, makes me a fan boy, then im proud to receive the title

and the durango guy said the truck was fast... and it isn't, I didn't tell him that it was crap or anything of the sort... I just said it was not fast like he claims

you seem to like putting words in people mouths

first off where did i say that you said it was crap, i believe that you are putting in your own words, if he thinks that is cool or fast why to you have to argue, if you don't think so, then whatever, let him like what he likes. why should he have to like a lighting, maybe he can't afford a srt10 ram, but a dakota magnum is right in his price bracket, which is considerably cheaper than the other two, and might actually be fast for what it is, a simple, dirt cheap truck

the neat part about that is that fast is just relative, the truck could be very fast compared to any thing he has ever f#$* with, what ever you think is fast, somebody out there thinks that it is slow, all the guys that have 10 second cars, think there cars are fast, but all the guys that have 8 second cars think they're slow, and the guys with 4 second cars probably think that the 8 sec guys are slow. the guy that flys the F22 raptor thinks hes really moving fast and hes not moving any where as fast as the guy sitting still taking a dump on the international space station.

why do you get to decide what the definition of fast is?

do you plan on having a 10 second monster in your LS?

well i did recently acquire a terminator, blower, and T56 from a totaled cobra, but i have thinking about getting a 2nd gen Mark to drop it into, however i completely haven't ruled out getting a old 1st gen five speed to make a project car.


and i never said that i wouldn't consider buying a Chrysler or Chevy, i said that i would never consider buying a foreign car, and that Chevy and Chrysler hasn't done anything for me personally like ford has, i figured a hard working man like your self would understand something like that. but then again nobody can be right 100% of the time.

 

[1LoudLS]

but you don't want to hear about how our platform got passed up by, now, entry level spots sedans

yea im not a retard, i can understand that there were and are faster cars these days, but the OP wasn't asking about any of those, he was asking about an LS that he is considering buying, if i wanted to talk about CTS's there's a tab at the top of the screen for that, if i wanted to talk about BMW's theres a forum for that, it would be about as stupid as me coming onto your GTO or mustang forums and talking about how fast my EVO or TT supera is and why its so much better than yours.

the reason that i am here on a Lincoln LS forum is to talk about LS's, and for that i am just a dense fanboy, that puts words in other peoples mouths because i have a hard on for LS's (did i miss any other insults you threw my way)

 

[1LoudLS]

at least nobody on here is getting lectured about "common sence"
:shifty:

god damnit where's ILLS when ya need him...I need a damn tune

dude, hes out helping keep our country safe while helping make the remix of boats and hoes, just with much larger boats

if you need a good tune, one of the rookies found a new song that is kinda catchy the other day,
something about a hod rod lincoln


and dammit repete, i have been on this sight for well over 12 hours today, watching you damn sig gif,...






... just waiting
rofl

 

[pektel]

but that's just it... the only quick lincoln I'm going to see at a stoplight next to me is one with the ecoboost engine... because nobody is willing to take the time needed with the LS because what I say is fact... the people that do take the time needed with the original engine barely break 12's...

see "Land Speed LS" in the HP section for more info.

 

[Morbid Intentions]

see "Land Speed LS" in the HP section for more info.

you keep bringing up these gutted and completely reworked cars that no longer have anything original to try and prove a point when in fact it only proves what I am trying to say more.. furthermore I already knew about these cars ytou keep trying to "direct" me towards... yet my statements still stand

and I bet you any money that "landspeed" LS is a big turd on the street off the line for as much power as it claims to make... it's easy to push a lot of horsepower through a randomly chosen big engine you decided to drop in, a true cars utilizes this power from a stop

well i did recently acquire a terminator, blower, and T56 from a totaled cobra, but i have thinking about getting a 2nd gen Mark to drop it into

thank you, you have pretty much shut the door on your entire argument.... from engine block to rear end all the way down to the transmission and clearance this platform is a much better platform to start modding... why ANYONE will mod an LS is either loaded and obsessed with the car, or just looking to go out of their way trying to make a car be "mediocre quick"

I still think you guys fail to realize that quickLS is pushing over 400RWHP through his 3.9L and is at the limits of the stock shortblock yet is only able to muster a 12.8 @ 108MPH.... for the amount of work and time put into his car someone could have made an 8 second mark powered by a john kaase engine by now

the platform requires too much prepping just to be able to handle "meh" power levels... the tranny is glass, the rear has no LSD and isn't strong enough to hold the power it needs, the engine bay limits your engine swap choices to small displacement SOHC and 90 degree OHV engines, the tire clearance is nothing, even if you were able to make the car hit major power levels with an aftermarket block, tranny and rear end (which isn't an LS anymore so why try to grasp at that straw) you wouldn't be able to pack wide enough rubber to impress anyone when you race from a stop or low roll without a full tub, and even with a tub I give you a max of 305's...

trust me, I've been doing this too long to really be wrong when it comes to cars and getting them to go fast... you are beating against a brick wall trying to tell me otherwise, and in fact have spoken against everything you have been going on about with your "future mod plans"... so this conversation is really over and the point I was trying to make has been jutted forward on a silver platter... by you

:-/

also, here is a little tip... a DOHC 4.6L modular will not fit into the engine bay of the LS without completely shredding everything that was the engine bay, the most our platforms have seen cleanly was SOHC 4.6L modulars and that was pushing it

 

[pektel]

Actually, I believe Ken is using a very close variant to the current v8 engine (it's the 4.0 litre variant to our 3.9 block). He's going to twin turbo (since of course he has built the bottom end to support such modification), and running a nitrous and methanol spray setup to reach his excess of 1000hp. Time will tell if your assumptions are correct concerning how slow it will be off the line. He is planning on having the project completed sometime in September IIRC.

Come september, I just may take that bet of your's.