Gen1 to Gen2 Pros and cons

Actually, I believe Ken is using a very close variant to the current v8 engine (it's the 4.0 litre variant to our 3.9 block). He's going to twin turbo (since of course he has built the bottom end to support such modification), and running a nitrous and methanol spray setup to reach his excess of 1000hp. Time will tell if your assumptions are correct concerning how slow it will be off the line. He is planning on having the project completed sometime in September IIRC.

Come september, I just may take that bet of your's.

so it's not even done yet and you are using it for a topic?

this "Landspeed LS" was being talked about back when I first joined.... how many Septembers from now again? lol

sounds to me like he's building a dyno queen...

I'm sure his timeslip will look something like this from the sound of it

et-26-1.gif



also, I DO find it humorous that he still is in the process of building the car and it's still up on blocks seeing as about 2 years ago he told me he would race my GTO from any speed all cocky like he wanted to prove something... again, this only proves my theory I have been repeating over and over again


if you guys are done bringing up cars that aren't even finished yet and other peoples cars that aren't even members here that just kind of surfaced on the internet with completely reworked components and driveline that doesn't even retain factory anything except the shell I think we can let this thread die


BOOBIES!
1232815056428.gif
 
The car is driveable. The engine he is building is not currently in the car. The thing with a project like his, is you have to pave your own way. For example, you can't just buy these from a catalog:

DSC_0018.gif


These are the custom ones Ken has already received., and are going into the 4.0 block.

Right now, I believe all he has on the current setup is nitrous/meth.

It's a bit of a different type of "future project" than the typical ones on here. IIRC, a lot of his project is sponsor-driven. It just takes time to work through a project the first time, instead of buying bolt-ons, or pre-determined aftermarket parts. I have the utmost confidence that the project will come to fruition when he says it will.

But yes, I'm through debating it too. Nice pic. She's fuking HOT :D
 
engine swaps have been around since the beginning of automotive time, your a fool for thinking that changing some parts from the car itself, some how changes what the car is, as you pointed out earlier, a VW bug with a V8 hanging out of the back is guess what still a VW bug. if we where to go along with your logic, changing anything would now make it a completely different car. or is there a double standard? is there a *morbid approved* list of things that can be done and where do you set the line, LS's with LSD's are not LS's any more because the parts out of the rear end wasn't a factory option, Quicks car is no longer a LS because his blower came out of another car. dont buy the big brake kit from ken anybody, you wont be able to come on here since you car wont be a LS anymore. hell my car hasn't been an LS for a long time now since i completely, gutted and removed the entire audio system and replaced it.

well good luck with your LS hating, hope it works out for ya, peace.
 
engine swaps have been around since the beginning of automotive time, your a fool for thinking that changing some parts from the car itself, some how changes what the car is, as you pointed out earlier, a VW bug with a V8 hanging out of the back is guess what still a VW bug. if we where to go along with your logic, changing anything would now make it a completely different car. or is there a double standard? is there a *morbid approved* list of things that can be done and where do you set the line, LS's with LSD's are not LS's any more because the parts out of the rear end wasn't a factory option, Quicks car is no longer a LS because his blower came out of another car. dont buy the big brake kit from ken anybody, you wont be able to come on here since you car wont be a LS anymore. hell my car hasn't been an LS for a long time now since i completely, gutted and removed the entire audio system and replaced it.

well good luck with your LS hating, hope it works out for ya, peace.

Looks to me like you have a lot to learn... the engine replacement alone is an aspect that backs up MY SIDE of the arguement... you don't replace something that isn't working for your purpose unless... DING DING DING IT DOES NOT WORK FOR WHAT YOU WANT TO ACCOMPLISH!...in this case going fast, you keep blabbering on about your engine swaps when in reality it shoots down the false hope point you are trying to make... have fun with your 14 second car, its obviously super fast with tons of potential.... terminators aint got nothin dawg! Lol

You quickly forget I own a V8 LS too... sadly for you I am a realist and know what I'm on about and know just what my car is and what its capable of
 
I have been saying the same thing since before you jumped into this thread

300 SRT-8 if you want a luxury car that goes fast
get a sports car if you want a sports car

but dont same a V8 LS is the :q:q:q:q and the V6 LS is crap because the engines are closer then you think
 
a pontiac GTO would be fun but saying more out of pocket just for an extra 2 seconds of my 1/4 mile time seems lame...plus I'd be loosing luxury and all my current mods.....guess the lincoln LS is a moneypit :p
 
I don't see why such fits are thrown over the occassional revived thread. When someone gets near a previously posted thread people yell "use the search" then when they do everyone bitches "zombie thread" and ignores it. New members join daily so there will be new opinions.

+1

it's like a compulsion around here... i don't understand it either. i've given up. better not to post unless you have scads of time to look through 500 posts and then make a decision about how how closely your question approximates the 500 questions and replies. perhaps that should be a sticky...

I see. Yes, I do have those, but they don't bother me. The only concern that I have is wondering how long it would take for the Lincoln branding to wear off of my forehead should the airbag deploy.

the airbag deploys through a slit. the emblem stays where it is.

to OP. having experienced both cars, the gen 2 is the way to go simply because they corrected many of the issues with the gen 1. although i do think the gen 1 looks better. imho. someone said go with a gen 2 2006. if possible, that makes sense.
 
It was designed to beat the 5 series on the Nurburgring which it did.

it did? wow that's pretty impressive. any links?

(i want bragging rights... lol)
 
Why mod anything ever? Just take the lambo to work.

if you owned a GTO, you would... along with the poorly chosen construction materials and bumpy ride. but hey, it's a vette with 4 seats.

i wonder... does that make it a mod'ed vette?
 
if you owned a GTO, you would... along with the poorly chosen construction materials and bumpy ride. but hey, it's a vette with 4 seats.

spoken like a true child that doesn't know what he's talking about

the interior of the GTO is the best put together out of any of the muscle cars of it's era, the best quality, and the best ride as well

but you wouldn't know much about the Zeta platforms ride, handling and quality... you just hear "GTO" and make up some things to make you feel better about yourself xD

just in case you didn't know... the GTO's ride quality matches my LS's save for a little tiny bit worse when it comes to extremely bad roads... it's also got more miles than my LS and has given me less problems, and quite frankly... as much as I know someone like you will go "oh BS BS BS BS BLAH BLAH"... it's more comfortable behind the wheel than the LS as well

in fact it has more room in the backseat for my passengers legs which kind of makes me confused seeing as the GTO is supposed to be a muscle car coupe and the LS is supposed to be a mid sized luxury sports sedan



again... you guys are funny trying to argue with someone that actually owns the platform and sees it for what it is... this means I have no bias towards it and in fact like the LS for what it is, and sadly enough "what it is" isn't what you lot are making it out to be

but remember... you brought it up, very poorly I might add
 
spoken like a true child that doesn't know what he's talking about

what does that mean???

the interior of the GTO is the best put together out of any of the muscle cars of it's era, the best quality, and the best ride as well

i didn't know muscle cars were known for their interiors and 'best' ride. perhaps muscle care is a misnomer... or maybe i'm not clear on the concept of 'american muscle car'.

but you wouldn't know much about the Zeta platforms ride, handling and quality... you just hear "GTO" and make up some things to make you feel better about yourself xD
[/B]

you're wrong. i don't know anything about the zeta platforms. in fact, if i was using the hubble telescope, i wouldn't be able to locate my interest in it. that probably explains why i'm in this forum. why are you here again?

just in case you didn't know... the GTO's ride quality matches my LS's save for a little tiny bit worse when it comes to extremely bad roads...

so i'm confused. it's the same or not? (not that it matters to me, but YOU brought it up)

it's also got more miles than my LS and has given me less problems

are you a salesman for one? i may be way off, but you're barking up the wrong tree. no offense :D

and quite frankly... as much as I know someone like you will go "oh BS BS BS BS BLAH BLAH"...

you and i have never met. you're mistaken.

in fact it has more room in the backseat for my passengers legs which kind of makes me confused seeing as the GTO is supposed to be a muscle car coupe

still trying to sell huh? this is better. why are you confused? you stated earlier that the GTO is a muscle car... this, in itself is confusing. are you sure you know what you are talking about?

you guys are funny trying to argue with someone that actually owns the platform and sees it for what it is

what is your point? this is a forum for LS owners. why are you here again? is there a shortage of GTO forums? seriously, captain (see below), i wouldn't roll into a mustang forum and try and convince people that, in comparison to my car, their mustangs suck balls. dude, seriously! some common sense here!!!

this means I have no bias towards it and in fact like the LS for what it is

you may, but i suggest you review your comments in several different threads. one would, correctly, argue the opposite. see my previous comment.

but remember... you brought it up, very poorly I might add

ok. you are posting in an LS forum. the only thing poor here is your decision to come into our house and be rude.

i vote to change your name to captain fantastic. you know everything about everything. you can wear a cape with a GTO on the back! maybe a thumbs up sign too, a wrench as your side kick, and of course, your GTO...

v.
 
LOL

looks like I struck a nerve

that's ok though


why I'm here?

well I own a 2005 3.9L V8

and the only thing you are "bitch slapping" is your common sense for trying to pretend I don't have one in order to make up your own little fantasy world about how I'm here to join the forums to cause a big wind like the big bad wolf

no, quite the contrary... I'm just here to give you the facts... the facts just seem to scar certain people is all

a class of car can be anything it wants, I do know what I am talking about... unless of course you want to call an STS-V an abomination to the fact full size luxury sedans aren't known for their supercharged V8 engines... the list goes on in car history of how your stance of "well if this car is in this class it can't possibly have this" is completely and utterly wrong

THAT being said, I have the fastest bone stock 2nd gen V8 LS 1/4 mile time (that I have heard of anyways) at 14.7 @ 98MPH, so please, stuff the "WHY ARE YOU HERE?!" bit in order to defend the fact that this section is stuffed full of fanboys that cannot stand to hear someone speak so freely and unbiased towards the LS (this isn't everyone... so far I see a whole two, but they keep popping up throughout the course of this thread)

do I like my LS? yes, it's a perfectly fine car when you look at what it is... is it everything you lot say it is? no...


speaking of mustang forums, you should check this write up I took the time to produce... good read

http://mustangforums.com/forum/stre...how-much-is-your-power-adder-helping-you.html

and pay close attention to the post count, join date and the title under the name... then divulge into the post

but yeah... I have NO CLUE what I am getting into when someone talks of cars... don't worry though, our sections there get the ford fanboys that need to be shown that the world doesn't revolve around the ford mustang too... so you are not alone


also, here is a little tidbit out of the category "MUSCLE CARS" in the north america section...

In the U.S., the full-size, 4-door Chevrolet Impala SS had a short but popular production run from 1994–1996 as a high-performance limited-edition version of the Caprice equipped with a Corvette-derived 5.7 L V8 LT1 engine and other specific performance features and body styling using the options found on the Caprice 9C1 police package.

The Impala SS nameplate was resurrected again in 2003 as a high-performance version of the standard Impala with larger and/or supercharged engines (whether the 21st century Impalas, which are front-wheel drive, Canadian-built, and have had variously V6s and V8s, can be considered muscle cars in the same vein as their earlier namesakes is debatable). General Motors discontinued its F-body pony-car models, the Chevrolet Camaro and Pontiac Firebird after 2002, but brought back the GTO in 2004 as a rebadged Holden Monaro imported from Australia.

so now the question is... are you sure you know what you are talking about?
 
also... "why I'm not on the GTO forums"

that's easy...

I joined... and the ENTIRE FORUM were a bunch of fanboys, they would badmouth the new 3V platform on the S197 GT's and shout false claims about them like they are mid 14 second cars and the like... they even went into the cobra's, and the dodge LX series platforms and started downgrading them with false insults to make themselves feel better about their almighty GTO.... so I did the same thing to them as I'm doing to you and loudLS, I corrected them.... and at that point they decided that I did not own a GTO and that I secretly had a mustang and came to their forum to troll (because obviously only mustang trolls know exactly what every make/model mustang since the SN95 platform can do and every angle and aspect of the conversation ragarding the cars)... there were 3 or 4 cool guys there that agreed with me but ultimately the blind fanboyism for one platform that they owned is what drove me away, if it's one thing I cannot stand with any make or model car, it's blind fanboyism over it

all in all I think I said something to the fact that "our GTO's are not rocketships you know, a 3V S197 GT only needs a properly setup simple bolt on menu to put multiple car lengths on us" and this was enough for them to go apesh*t and start tearing at my limbs in protest and disgust lol

so all in all, as special as you think the LS platform is to me and my fabricated mission to downgrade it... it's no different as how I act towards any platform out there that gets held on a pedestal in front of me... I just knock it down to what it's supposed to be regardless if I own it or not.... because I'm unbiased and do not think that a car is a extension of me, so if I downgrade a car I own to praise another car I do not... it's the car, and I don't take it personally one bit... I guess it's what makes me "that guy"


now I really would like you to sit back for at least 5 minutes before you post a response to this and think about everything I have just typed out for you and realize I make more sense than you are playing out... my background in cars is very substantial, but that's not to say I'm always right either, but when I know I'm right, I'm 99.9% of the time right... if I'm unsure I post as such, I'm not here to be your enemy, or loudLS's enemy for that matter... I just look at things differently is all... you can disagree with me, that is your right... and a big factor most of you are probably failing to see is everything I say isn't intended to "cut down" the LS... they are just simple statements that hold truth that make the pride of most owners damaged (this isn't a downgrade on you, it's just a natural reaction that happens in others I've seen)... "truth" can hurt, the same hurt was found when I told an even more fanboyish GTO mob just now "not special" the GTO is

I can say this though, you boys conduct yourselves better than the GTO crowd... so maybe that's why I am still here

so we can agree to disagree at this point I suppose, but I think we should just leave it at that and not carry a simple disagreement into insults and "bitchslapping", let alone make it a "grudge" thing like you are playing it out to be... with that said let's take this to PM's if you want, I think we have cluttered this thread up enough
 
spoken like a true child that doesn't know what he's talking about

the interior of the GTO is the best put together out of any of the muscle cars of it's era, the best quality, and the best ride as well


that is plain wrong.

In 07 I test drove all of the muscle cars for the era. I ended up getting the Mustang GT, which had better handles and better quality interior.

The GTO I felt had the worst interior/handles.
 
that is plain wrong.

In 07 I test drove all of the muscle cars for the era. I ended up getting the Mustang GT, which had better handles and better quality interior.

The GTO I felt had the worst interior/handles.

so what aspects of the 2007 GTO did you not like?

(think on this question before you answer it)

here is a few professional reviews on the ordeal...

The cabin has the sporty elegance of a BMW's. Four large analog gauges (wearing faces color-coordinated with the exterior paint) lie in a large pod behind the wheel; the dials and much of the interior are trimmed with a classy satin-nickel finish (as are the drilled pedals). The four-spoke steering wheel (with integrated audio controls) feels good in your hands and is infinitely adjustable for tilt and telescope--something we've been nagging GM to do for years. The center stack houses straightforward climate controls and that Blaupunkt audio system--a 200-watt, 10-speaker affair with in-dash six-disc CD changer. There's not a blob of bling-bling marring the cool, businesslike ambiance. Your $500 aluminum attache case will look right at home here.

Fit and finish are the finest we've seen on a GM vehicle in decades. The body emits not a squeak and shimmies not a whit, parts gaps are tight and uniform (even on our preproduction pilot vehicle), the interior shapes flow smoothly into one another, and the materials are rich and handsome. Superb, beautifully stitched leather covers the wheel, the shift boot, and the seats. The seats themselves are simply spectacular, deeply bolstered for excellent support, and roomy enough to be accommodating for drivers of various sizes. Behind the front chairs are two more buckets--it takes some acrobatics to get to them (we'd like to see a power-seat advance when the front backrests are flopped forward), but once back there, adults can sit without holding their knees to their chins. (Trunk room is another issue: The GTO offers a paltry nine cubic feet of space under its bespoilered rear deck.)

Although it'll happily melt its rear BFGoodriches into rubber pudding (a standard traction-control system will step in to save your tires unless you switch it off), the GTO runs not like a shuddering, rackety musclecar, but like a sophisticated executive's express. The muscle is certainly there

The GTO apparently has Cool Whip in its suspension. Forget that punishing big-numbers ride we've come to expect from American performance coupes--the GTO is too well-mannered to deliver constant, seat-pounding reminders of its sport-coupe intentions. Maximum handling grip--0.80 g--doesn't set any performance standards, but the GTO's real-world useability does. Several of our test drivers commented that they had driven few other coupes so poised, so well-balanced, so confidence-inspiring when you're in full-hustle mode. In that respect, the GTO will lose locker-room debates based on spec-chart bravado. But it shines where it counts: in the driver's seat

So the GTO isn't the rip-snorting, retro-themed muscle machine many die-hards may have been waiting for. We're not disappointed. What GM has delivered instead is a superbly crafted, tastefully styled, tautly muscled grand-touring car that stimulates your brain, not your kidneys. That such a suave machine wears the Pontiac badge may be the biggest--and the most pleasant--surprise of all.


again, it's your right to disagree and have a different opinion... but apparently I'm not alone in my outlook accompanied by real world professional reviewers

that being said I think the 2005-2009 mustang GT's fail in comparison as far as quality... but I personally think they ARE a better choice for drag, the 3V modular was a big step up from the crappy 2V 4.6L that took to mods like a tractor... a good friend of mine just got a best of 11.9 @ 112MPH with only two or three basic bolt on's, suspension mods, DR's and a 100 shot... all things considered, this is a great time for the mods invested

this is him launching
user60805_pic3811_1223051378.gif



if I would have been in the market for an all out dragger with no thought of comfort and accommodations, I would have got a mustang, that is no lie... since 2005 they have been the best choice for the task for how they take to mods and their weight compared to the rest of the pack

again, I think you are playing at the fact I think the GTO is the best thing since god made little green apples... and this is not the case
 
I believe it was the 06 model I tested, cant remember for sure but it was same gen of GTO

but I felt the plastic felt cheap like the charger, also I felt I got better handling on the turns with the GT. The GTO felt the smaller of the cars interiors too

Im assuming you have driven the mustangs and am surprised you would think the GTO is better.

Also the GT seats felt sick the way they hugged you.

Of course my mustang love was short lived as my wife wanted to go to Germany for her final semister so I had to sell my baby. It had less then 3K miles on her when I sold it, it was a very sad day. She promised me I could get a new one after a year or so but that didnt pan out :)

here is my old cardoman for my mustang

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2584639/r1
 
I do think it's better,and feel the same about how you would think the quality of the mustang is better, but like I said... that's what opinions are for, let's agree to disagree and drink ourselves into a stupor! xD

the last mustang I've owned was a 2004 GT that was pretty well modded... but my friends that I accumulated in my mustang forum let me drive their S197's now and again... great cars I won't deny that, as I've said before they are a stronger platform to make fast... I just liked the GTO's feel better


this was my mustang...

YouTube- Fun Vid

last video I have of it to be honest lol
 
also the mustang has won almost every head to head comparison with other modern muscle cars. Including beating out the camaro and challenger this year :)
 
Morbid,

I think you made a comment about how heavy the LS is, but I may be wrong on that so sorry in advance if I am. From what I can see though the LS is around 45 pounds or so heavier than your GTO so if the LS is heavy I'm guessing the GTO is heavy too no? The BIG & most important difference is the engines I'm guessing as you have said the LS engine is undersized correct?
 
Morbid,

I think you made a comment about how heavy the LS is, but I may be wrong on that so sorry in advance if I am. From what I can see though the LS is around 45 pounds or so heavier than your GTO so if the LS is heavy I'm guessing the GTO is heavy too no? The BIG & most important difference is the engines I'm guessing as you have said the LS engine is undersized correct?

the GTO is rather heavy, but not as heavy as the mags make them out to be... with me in the car at the drag strip the GTO weighed 3,800lbs and some change... and I weighed 190lbs (then)... so if I had my spare and all the equipment (which I did not) that would put me in @ about the same weight as a terminator

the big reason my opinion is the way it is happens to be the aftermarket for it.... displacement nowadays has little bearing on the potential of it's power... look at the SRT4 that can handle huge power over and above my GTO with the stock rotating assembly of a 2.4L I4... the only weak link there is the stock snail which easily can be replaced with a .50 trim

not only the lack of aftermarket potential for the average joe shmoe to make it a street warrior but the fact the engine is not the only weak link... all three of the main players in the car are weak links that need to be replaced... the tranny, the engine, and the ENTIRE rear end... it's just too much work, money and time to screw with and at the end of the day I said "the platform isn't worth taking the time, money and labor to make fast"... what good is saying that the platform CAN be made fast if you replace the entire platform... that's like saying a broken refrigerator is perfectly fine because you can replace the refrigerator
 
plus the GTO is very crammed for how big it is

I went over this with you guys before... the GTO has more leg room than the LS

I'd say the LS is pretty cramped for how big it is... the back seat is like a canyon in the GTO compared to the LS

but like I said, I wouldn't expect you to understand what you are talking ab out when it comes to another automotive platform
 
I respect the LS MI....I'm just saying that's what ALLLLLLLLL the car reviews say...I like pontiacs and wouldn't mind having one (Almost bought a supercharged GXP instead of the LS) but I went with the LS because when it comes to power...you can't USE IT DAILY...as you can with luxury
 
...so I did the same thing to them as I'm doing to you and loudLS, I corrected them.

well at least your ignorance burns with the fury of a thousand sons!

only a fool could think that they are correcting me.

what have i said that needs correcting?
was it my description between 1st and 2nd gen LS's as seen in my first post?
was it my mathematical rebuttal to lloyds take on the difference between engines?

was it where i agreed with your post 34 in my post 36? while quoting my own post 32?
even IF the GENII V8 has more horsepower it's still just a mid-high 14 second car (on a good day)
post 34

... V8 is already underpowered for a car this heavy, and a V6 only adds insult to injury...
post 32

thats what im saying, its already a slow car, do you really want an even slower version?
post36

was it where i said that you need to burn more gas to make more power?


did i f@*& up one of the quotes from the fast and the furious?

was it when i caught you in one of you first contradictions?
...so nevermind horsepower and all that lame crap...
is that why you have your horse power and torque # listed in your sig

i mean the only thing that i was was trying to do is help help your little mind rap itself around the reason
why someone would mod an LS.
becuase you can.

for the sole reason to show you why we mod our cars, (that you seem to think is pointless) which is the exactly the same reason you modded your car, plain and simple. you bought your car(GTO, not the LS) because there was something about the car that made you say,"this is the one that i'm going to spend hard earned dollars for" and just like the rest of us, you where not 100% happy with the way the factory decided to build it, so you spent more of your money to make it better or closer to what you wanted.

because its different.

you sure as sh!t didn't correct me when i agreed with you here
it takes a small fortune and an immense amount of work just to see 12's
with

if it was easy, it would just be the way

if i wanted a really fast car, and wanted it to be super easy, and i didn't want to spend a lot of money, all i would have to do is buy a cheap a$$ fox body and pickup a catalog and start ordering

instead you decided to through insults at me like the poor miserable self hating guy that you must be
You probably are too dense to understand what I am trying to tell you is all...and this is where the term "fanboy" comes from...you seem to like putting words in people mouths...Looks to me like you have a lot to learn

yup your really teaching me a thing or two

at this point I will agree to disagree with you,
how do you even disagree with someone who is agreeing with you, so far you have only showed that you like your LS a lot less than i do and that you just get off arguing with people that are not arguing with you, unless you where offended my any of my comments i made to lloyd, is he your boy, did that "touch a nerve with you?

more evidence that your just full of your self
I didn't bring up my Gto as far as a direct comparison discussion tough guy, loudls did...
post 63
i assume that you are referring to my post 54 in which i first mentioned anything about a GTO
"why would anyone even bother to mod a GTO, i mean if you really wanted to go fast, you should just buy a ZR1! :rolleyes:"
but in all actuality you brought up the goat yourself two post earlier
there are few boosted and juiced LS's and they are pulling slower times than a tune only GTO
or was it in post 10 where you where comparing TBW between a 1st & 2nd gen LS, and how you have the same problem between the LS1 & LS2 GTO's, i must be confused, comparison is such a big word for me to handle (if it wasnt for the spell checker, i probably would have missed spelled it)

i mean only a complete tool blames other people for his actions.


then the best part is where you start saying stuff like "nobody is willing to take the time needed with the LS" when there have been people that have took the time with the LS. who cares if some of them are running the factory engine to its limits, it doesnt take anything away from the car. it would be different if Rob, Lou, Jason, or anybody else that has done any work on there car has actually said that there car is the fastest or best out there (which none of them has since they all have admitted how much work it has took them, and most of them actually have other much faster cars)

nobody=no body, if somebody has done something, then you cant really say "nobody" because then you kinda come off like you don't know what words mean.

then you "grasp at straws" when shown an LS built that is much faster than your gto by discarding it because it has a different drive train, or discount any of the LS running around because they are only 12 second cars, who said that they have to be faster, no one made claims that they where super fast cars to begin with.

i never said that the LS was a fast car or that it was made to be something that it wasn't, i never have said that the motor in this car was (a) a good motor with lots of potential, (b) an awesome choice of a motor for this car, (c) a better motor in any way to any LSx motor, or (d) a motor with a strong aftermarket.
i have even repeated said and brought up short comings of this motor, and its choice for this car.

what good is saying that the platform CAN be made fast if you replace the entire platform...
which is what your having problems understanding, nobody loves the LS because of it sick powerful drive train, every body likes them because they have looks that kill, I'll try to tell you this one more time (since i cant say it slowly through the computer, please read it slowly to yourself) once again if we wanted drag cars we would have bought something else, but every one here does not want a drag car. and there are sooooooo mmmaaannnyyy, fast a$$ sports cars on the road. there's no point in building a 11 second camaro because there are soooooo mmaannyy faster ones out there, and so on and so on. however it is very appealing to spend the extra money and and make a slow car much faster, especially if they are very few and far in between. thats what really makes it cool and worth it.

everybody wants to customize there car some how so that it is some how different than the tens of thousands of them that have been built and have been on the road, and how does it get any better then having the only super powerful slow ass car out there, you mentioned that it would be better to have a Marauder, except for the fact that there are hundreds of them out there that are built to the gills, how exclusive is that?


well, have you corrected me yet?
get over yourself brian
 
Damn, what a stack of evidence 1Loudls
 

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