Gen1 to Gen2 Pros and cons

[Morbid Intentions]

well, have you corrected me yet?

yes, I have

I think you need to sit back and realize you disagreed with me from the star, or else there wouldn't be a constant stream of garbage after every one of my posts

now sit back and think about that one



that being said to answer your little question I think the age old "V6's are gay" comment based on horsepower really showed your ignorance when it comes to automobiles... when you build a modern 2000+ V8 into a 12 second supercharged car for less than 7K including the price of the car... let me know (I have done this easily with the 3.8L essex platform)

and like I said before, it's not disregarding... it's common sense... you cannot say the platform can be made fast by replacing the entire platform, it's a contradiction that AGAIN, makes MY point all the more clearer

you say you didn't argue and that you agree that LS's aren't drag cars but then you are arguing the most out of anyone... why else would we still be gong back and fourth?

and I already assessed your little horsepower comment to show you just how much sense you made back on page 2.... peak horsepower DOES mean nothing, just because I went on the dyno doesn't mean any different

I think you need to grow up and stop trying to pull out of an argument you created with your sarcasm over the GTO and ZR1 comparison... the main reason my GTO was brought up in the first place I might add

also... nobody is a word... sorry to make your fail grammar lesson fail
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/nobody

 

[pektel]

Ha, I didn't even read the back and forth stuff... I was hoping to see more pics of that chick lol.

Hey Morbid, you know a guy on the GTO forums by the name of Tom Palermo? He's got an 04 IIRC with a full Monaro conversion. Nice dude. I know him from a detailing forum. I really like his ride.

 

[Morbid Intentions]

Ha, I didn't even read the back and forth stuff... I was hoping to see more pics of that chick lol.

Hey Morbid, you know a guy on the GTO forums by the name of Tom Palermo? He's got an 04 IIRC with a full Monaro conversion. Nice dude. I know him from a detailing forum. I really like his ride.

nah, I wasn't on there long enough to get to know many people... most of them seemed really full of themselves and stuck up... their attitude was seriously like they were driving a rare model of Ferrari instead of a bastardized Monaro xD

I DO think I know who you are talking about though... is the GTO a gun metal silver?

if so then he seemed cool, I've never had a problem with him

 

[1LoudLS]

again i didn't say that nobody wasn't a word,

nobody=no body, if somebody has done something, then you cant really say "nobody" because then you kinda come off like you don't know what words mean.

i was breaking the work down for you so that you wouldn't misuse it, as in you said that nobody would do... what there have been people who have done.

i didn't say that all V6's where gay, just putting one in an stock LS, as directed to the OP. there have been many great V6's used in the past and present. and the V6 might have been a good ideal if it would have actually saved some gas unlike the 1-2 MPGs that many people (including myself) who have actually had personal experience with both can speak to

and I already assessed your little horsepower comment to show you just how much sense you made back on page 2...

so then you do agree with the fact that the LS is no track master,however would you actually want your LS to be any slower than it already is, probably not, since you chose to go the other way. i'm not going off of pure numbers, im going off of actual experience of what its like to have driving both, have you owned both motors in an LS, Prob not.

i'm definitly not pulling out of my point that there is a reason to mod the LS, which i'm pretty sure that 80%-90% of everybody on the LS section has done in some way or another

but nobody is arguing that the LS platform is the right choice to go with if you want a car that is fast

when you build a modern 2000+ V8 into a 12 second

your right again i havent, i got my fill of sports cars when i built a 12.4-12.6 fox body(sorry it wasn't any newer for ya, but its what ive done) for about $2500 (including the price of the car) with little more than the time to port a m90 out, fabbing up some brackets, and a few BS parts out of a junk yard, all in a weekend of boredom, just to drive it around for a couple of months and sell it for over two times what it cost me. but then what do i know, apparently nothing.

 

[pektel]

nah, I wasn't on there long enough to get to know many people... most of them seemed really full of themselves and stuck up... their attitude was seriously like they were driving a rare model of Ferrari instead of a bastardized Monaro xD

I DO think I know who you are talking about though... is the GTO a gun metal silver?

if so then he seemed cool, I've never had a problem with him

This is his:

And his mod list as of 07 (excluding the Monaro conversion parts, of which he did a complete conversion as far as I could tell):

Lingenfelter GT2-5 Cam
Stock ported 243 heads
Comp 1.8 rockers
Comp LS6 pushrods
Lingenfelter CAI
Stainless Work long tube headers
Magnaflow catback
GMM rip shift (race version)
Banshee gauge pod
Aeroforce dual scan gauges
Pedders strut mount bushings/bearings
BMR strut tower brace
Taylor 8.8mm wires
NGK TR6 plugs
Nitrous Outlet Nitrous controller
Nitrous Outlet GTO switch panel
Nitrous Outlet throttle body plate kit
Dual stage nitrous system (75 first stage 200 second stage)
Billet prototypes catch can
BMR drag bags
Holden HSV MAF pipe
Programming by HP Performance, Jacksonville FL
35% tint all around
Hoen bulbs all around
Hp?? lots.

I know he was part of ls1gto.com

 

[rainjacks]

OK, I have a few quick items to mention about "fast" what is and what isn't. First see my sig for an idea of where I am coming from. Here is another solid example pulled from this article http://gizmodo.com/5511236/the-thrill-of-flying-the-sr+71-blackbird

One day, high above Arizona , we were monitoring the radio traffic of all the mortal airplanes below us. First, a Cessna pilot asked the air traffic controllers to check his ground speed. 'Ninety knots,' ATC replied. A twin Bonanza soon made the same request. 'One-twenty on the ground,' was the reply. To our surprise, a navy F-18 came over the radio with a ground speed check. I knew exactly what he was doing. Of course, he had a ground speed indicator in his cockpit, but he wanted to let all the bug-smashers in the valley know what real speed was 'Dusty 52, we show you at 620 on the ground,' ATC responded. The situation was too ripe. I heard the click of Walter's mike button in the rear seat. In his most innocent voice, Walter startled the controller by asking for a ground speed check from 81,000 feet, clearly above controlled airspace. In a cool, professional voice, the controller replied, ' Aspen 20, I show you at 1,982 knots on the ground.' We did not hear another transmission on that frequency all the way to the coast

Now, my opinion is simply this. Do not tell me the LS is slow because it can't go as fast as some other car. If you are going to bring up other machines as a comparison to how fast my LS is or is not then I am going to bring up the SR-71. Until your car goes faster than 1,982 knots you are slow as a rock and shut the hell up. I originally gave Morbid props because I mistakenly believed that he understood the subjective nature of the topic. The LS is fast becuase it beat the competition it was designed to beat when and where it was designed to beat it. And for the record I will state again, that was not in a straight line. It was around the Nurburgring. You can literally make a piece of $hit that can do 12 seconds in a straight line. Seriously, I can go out and take a pile my dog left and hook it up to some thrust to get a 12 second quarter mile. I'm not impressed. Getting that piece of $hit to turn is much harder.

Kudos on your GTO it is awesome. I bow to the greatness of all the GTO owners of the world. I wish I had chosen to purchase a GTO instead of my LS. If only I had known.

To the OP, the gen1 has washer nozzles on the hood.

 

[Morbid Intentions]

engine swaps have been around since the beginning of automotive time, your a fool for thinking that changing some parts from the car itself, some how changes what the car is, as you pointed out earlier, a VW bug with a V8 hanging out of the back is guess what still a VW bug. if we where to go along with your logic, changing anything would now make it a completely different car. or is there a double standard? is there a *morbid approved* list of things that can be done and where do you set the line, LS's with LSD's are not LS's any more because the parts out of the rear end wasn't a factory option, Quicks car is no longer a LS because his blower came out of another car. dont buy the big brake kit from ken anybody, you wont be able to come on here since you car wont be a LS anymore. hell my car hasn't been an LS for a long time now since i completely, gutted and removed the entire audio system and replaced it.

well good luck with your LS hating, hope it works out for ya, peace.

OK, I have a few quick items to mention about "fast" what is and what isn't. First see my sig for an idea of where I am coming from. Here is another solid example pulled from this article http://gizmodo.com/5511236/the-thrill-of-flying-the-sr+71-blackbird



Now, my opinion is simply this. Do not tell me the LS is slow because it can't go as fast as some other car. If you are going to bring up other machines as a comparison to how fast my LS is or is not then I am going to bring up the SR-71. Until your car goes faster than 1,982 knots you are slow as a rock and shut the hell up. I originally gave Morbid props because I mistakenly believed that he understood the subjective nature of the topic. The LS is fast becuase it beat the competition it was designed to beat when and where it was designed to beat it. And for the record I will state again, that was not in a straight line. It was around the Nurburgring. You can literally make a piece of $hit that can do 12 seconds in a straight line. Seriously, I can go out and take a pile my dog left and hook it up to some thrust to get a 12 second quarter mile. I'm not impressed. Getting that piece of $hit to turn is much harder.

Kudos on your GTO it is awesome. I bow to the greatness of all the GTO owners of the world. I wish I had chosen to purchase a GTO instead of my LS. If only I had known.

To the OP, the gen1 has washer nozzles on the hood.

Congrats dude, you only prove to me you do not know how to read a thread

With the twisties comment... that's a cornered ricer excuse to be honest... almost as bad as saying you would be faster on the highway after losing from a stop.... why stop there bro? Let's line my lund against your ls to prove it will lose on the lake.... then let's race in the mud with my F150 and see who is the fastest there! This is how you sound right now.... now for the kicker.... a 2nd gen LS would lose to a 5 series 4 years older than it, let alone a fair comparison year to year... 545i... I invite you to look it up and try to tell me with a straight face that a v8 ls would win against this

 

[Andemusprime]

Im confused now. I thought we all bought our ls cause of the way we felt when we drove it. For me it had features i have never had in a car. It had 4 doors and 4 seats( another new thing for me.) Next it was a good compramise for what i wanted. I wanted a rear wheel drive, i wanted american, i wanted 4 doors, i wanted a relaible daily driver, and i wanted to be able to still have a bit of fun on the highways. Next i love my car(no matter how much the haters compare it to something faster...allways will be one) and i want to mod it to add my own bit of personality to a car that i care for. I want it to sound a bit better, so i plan on a exhaust. I want it to shift a bit smother....and so on. But just because i want to mod doesnt mean im not happy with my car, or that i plan on taking my daily driver to a track and runing it balls out to see what my times are. Last thing i want to know is, why do people by cars, join forums, and comment about how bad the car is, or how people want to make it into something its not? Even if your oppion is that a geo metro is a slow ugly bucket, dosent mean you have to rain on someone elses parade when he is dreaming about how cool his car could be and talking with what he hopes is like minded people on a forum for his car. Im also confused how this thread went from answering the OP question to a debate about how fast the car can become. He wanted to know the pros and cons for each gen(and maybe each engine as it will help guide him to his answer). My best advice for this is to drive the models and see if you notice the diferences and if not then pick the one that is the best deal. I drove a V6 and a V8 from each gen....the only thing it told me is that i wanted one, and bad enough to pay for the gas mileage. I then proceded to find the best deal. Turned out i ended up with an 05 tan V8 LS that has 47k on it and has only been owned by my local lincoln dealership. I got it for 10,900 vs the 14 something it was valued at. The transimison felt better then the other ones and it seemed to have a bit more get up and go, and the features where right. I was super hyped for it and having dreams about my hotrod lincoln untill this post. I still love my car i just wish people didnt have such negative things to say about it in a forum i joined to be around other people that love the car. Now i think im going to have to go back to the drawing board and search for the answer on how to make my 3.9l smoke that GTO so i can get to my vette first and proceed to beat him in the next race with my 91....wait no thats not right, i built it for autocross fun cause its a damn vette and it was designed to take that damn turn your drag car cant muster. Well if that seems harsh for a forum then good, dont try to bring me down from my dreams behind your wall of "its just my oppion" crap. If i wanted that oppion i would of joined a different forum

 

[1LoudLS]

To the OP, the gen1 has washer nozzles on the hood.

to the OP, with a 2nd gen, you can have two large soda's from McDonalds sitting right next to each other in the cup holders, and be able to remove one, take a drink, and put it all back down with out somehow knocking both lids off and spilling that sh!t everywhere, try that in you damn ninja cup holders rainjacks

 

[Morbid Intentions]

more people that make no god damn sense come out of the woodworks to get a say in on facts... why am I not surprised

I'll just address this...

Turned out i ended up with an 05 tan V8 LS that has 47k on it and has only been owned by my local lincoln dealership.

I ended up with a 2005 V8 LS as well... only I've had mine since 50 miles on the ticker, brand new off the lot at the end of 05

so pardon me while I claim more experience with the platform... not only in driving, but in the garage, under the hood, inside of the transmission and all around better idea of what I'm talking about

you rabble are going out of your way to try to tell me about a car I've owned for over 5 years... 1st owner, since it's step off the assembly line, then further your ignorance by speaking about another platform "I" own that "YOU" have ZERO knowledge or experience in... see the irony? so can it already... the fanboy cries in the dark are annoying

I'll be more than happy to spank your vette on a road track with my 25 year old porsche if that is what you really wish to bring up...

 

[rainjacks]

With the twisties comment... that's a cornered ricer excuse to be honest... why stop there bro? Let's line my lund against your ls to prove it will lose on the lake.... then let's race in the mud with my F150 and see who is the fastest there! This is how you sound right now.... now for the kicker.... a 2nd gen LS would lose to a 5 series 4 years older than it, let alone a fair comparison year to year... 545i... I invite you to look it up and try to tell me with a straight face that a v8 ls would win against this

I can't tell if you are arguing or agreeing with me. You are making my point that it doesn't make sense to pit two machines against each other that were never meant to compete. your whole thing about the lund and F150 is agreeing with the point I was trying to make. Apparently, I am not being very clear. I also never claimed my car was faster than anything other than a Ford Windstar. Although, I know a snowmobile that will beat your lund on any lake you like (use the search feature to find that thread).

Disparaging my comment about the "twisties" doesn't negate its truthfulness. You don't argue against the point, you are arguing against the person making the point. It is called ad hominem. So, even if I was a ricer the that doesn't make my point less valid.

With regard to the BMW 545i what do you mean by "beat" and "win". If you are referring to a drag race I have no idea what would "win" and I really don't care. Even if the 545i would beat the LS in every perfomance metric imaginable I don't really care.

So, let me see if I understand your arguments, please let me know if I am wrong with any of this:

1. The LS sucks because it is not as fast as Pontiac GTO
2. The LS sucks because it is hard to modify
3. The only true measure of speed and performance is in a straight line
4. You can't consider anything to be fast unless it can go 1/4 mile in 12 seconds
5. In instances where people make LSs approach 12 seconds it doesn't count (see number 2)
6. Horsepower is irrelevent unless it happens to prove your point at that moment.

Becuase I back up my points, AMCI tested the 2003 Lincoln LS v8 vs a BMW 540i and determined the following:

• LS Out-slaloms BMW
• LS Out-corners BMW
• LS has better handling performance than the BMW

Motortrend did a comparison of the LS and a BMW 528i located here. For the record this was a V6 LS. They found the LS beat the BMW on the slalom and tied on the skidpad. The LS V6 had more HP than the BMW's inline 6 210 vs 192 (but we all know HP doesn't matter). The LS also has a better power to weight ratio.

Now, if you don't consider these to be proper measures of performance that is fine and not really my point.

Now, here is my only argument laid out very plainly:

1. Fast is subjective (proven by the SR-71 article quote)
2. The Lincoln LS compares well to its intended target (proven by the above numbers)

Please explain to me which item in my list you disagree with and back it up with some data. If you agree with these points I think we are done here.

 

[DENNISJR60]

I'll be more than happy to spank your vette on a road track with my 25 year old porsche if that is what you really wish to bring up...

You willing to go against my 94 Supra?

 

[Morbid Intentions]

I can't tell if you are arguing or agreeing with me. You are making my point that it doesn't make sense to pit two machines against each other that were never meant to compete. your whole thing about the lund and F150 is agreeing with the point I was trying to make. Apparently, I am not being very clear. I also never claimed my car was faster than anything other than a Ford Windstar. Although, I know a snowmobile that will beat your lund on any lake you like (use the search feature to find that thread).

my god you are slow

I NEVER ONCE COMPARED MY GTO TO THE LS! IF YOU GO BACK AND ACTUALLY READ I COMPARE THE LS TO OTHER CARS IN IT'S INTENDED CATEGORY!

GO BACK AND READ!

Disparaging my comment about the "twisties" doesn't negate its truthfulness. You don't argue against the point, you are arguing against the person making the point. It is called ad hominem. So, even if I was a ricer the that doesn't make my point less valid.

no, it's called compensating for a failure in one aspect... if something loses outright in one topic, another entire topic getting brought up as a fantasy playing field is just excuses and shows a weakness rather than the strongpoint you are trying so desperate to show

With regard to the BMW 545i what do you mean by "beat" and "win". If you are referring to a drag race I have no idea what would "win" and I really don't care. Even if the 545i would beat the LS in every perfomance metric imaginable I don't really care.

yes, you do care... because you said a LS will beat a 5 series in the twisties (BIG genre to cover there buddy)... and quite frankly... no, it will not

1. The LS sucks because it is not as fast as Pontiac GTO
2. The LS sucks because it is hard to modify
3. The only true measure of speed and performance is in a straight line
4. You can't consider anything to be fast unless it can go 1/4 mile in 12 seconds
5. In instances where people make LSs approach 12 seconds it doesn't count (see number 2)
6. Horsepower is irrelevent unless it happens to prove your point at that moment.

again, you are just proving your ignorance... do you fabricate whole conversations by yourself or does your invisible friend help too? you need to learn to read before you start up a conversation with someone

Becuase I back up my points, AMCI tested the 2003 Lincoln LS v8 vs a BMW 540i and determined the following:

• LS Out-slaloms BMW
• LS Out-corners BMW
• LS has better handling performance than the BMW

a V8 LS WILL NOT handle a same year 540i/545i in any of these categories... sorry buddy... if you think it will you are just as biased as the article that wrote it... skidpad and slalom are as important as dyno numbers when it comes to actually racing... which is absolutely jack squat

Please explain to me which item in my list you disagree with and back it up with some data. If you agree with these points I think we are done here.

EVERYTHING you say only shows me that you have NO IDEA what you are talking about... I'm sure you watched that video of the ecoboost MKS vs the german V8's around the twisties and went "LOOK! THE LINCOLN MKS WILL BEAT AN E550!" totally overlooking the fact the reveiw was done @ 16,000ft and all of the MKS's rivals were naturally aspirated... yet the... ::drumroll:: you guessed it, BMW 5 series still trucked around faster... beating not only the ecoboost MKS, but a Maserati gran sport as well

stuff the fanboy brigade tough guy we get it... you think a BMW will beat a V8 5 series... sadly enough, it will not no matter how many articles you want to whip around

end of story

we have names for people like you over in the racing sections of the forums I moderate... "magazine racer"

with that said, shut the f*ck up and stop resurrecting this clusterf*ck of a fanboy gathering... if annoys me to see how many blind idiots own LS's




car and driver also did an article called "the magnificent not-quites" BTW

the V8 lincoln LS came in 6th place out of 7 places... 7th being the jaguar S-type... which is the same car... behind the E320, 530i, the Audi 2.7L A6, the GS300 and the M45

 

[05 LS8]

why someone would mod an LS... or even spend money into making it a little tiny bit quicker than dog slow is beyond me

there are few boosted and juiced LS's and they are pulling slower times than a tune only GTO lol.... I just enjoy the car for what it is, a good ride on trips and that little bit of pep to only slightly pull ahead of a honda civic xD

IDK, the whole V6 vs. V8 argument is lame... has been even in the mustang category... it always ends with the V8 guys on a power trip and the V6 guys proving that the V6 is a better bang for buck (at least the 3.8L essex is)... so nevermind horsepower and all that lame crap... it's just personal opinion really... even how fast the LS is happens to be personal opinion

Morbid, you should take it easy with your LS bashing. We respect the car for what it is. If i want a "kick in a back of the head with a 2X4" feeling, i take a ride in the Terminator making over 600 rwhp.
As slow as you say the LS is, i have never had problem leaving cars behind me. Go ask the guy, who was driving one of those new CTS-Vs. We were going through traffic, the poor guy couldn't keep up. I don't give a F#uck how fast something is, i am not running down a quarter mile track. I wish you were closer, we would go out to apex some corners, to see if you can keep up with your GTO.

You should go back and read your own posts, cause you have been comparing the LS with your GTO. Memory issues? Get the thalamus checked out.

 

[Morbid Intentions]

As slow as you say the LS is, i have never had problem leaving cars behind me. Go ask the guy, who was driving one of those new CTS-Vs. We were going through traffic, the poor guy couldn't keep up. I don't give a F#uck how fast something is, i am not running down a quarter mile track. I wish you were closer, we would go out to apex some corners, to see if you can keep up with your GTO.

LOL

that is all I have to say to this

you are a complete idiot if you even had a THOUGHT a new CTS-V would have problems staying even 5 car lengths of you... if that V romped it you would be a speck in his mirror, no question about it

also, the same reason the GTO came up is the same reason it got brought up here.... and yes, the GTO CAN outcorner the LS (not a big surprise), and the root of my explaination there was the fact you cannot mod them... at all.. and make it worth your money

and you cut my explanation short, I said my GTO can beat the LS and MY GTO IS SLOW IS COMPARISON TO WHAT IS FAST)

THAT being said, as I said before... in a world where the new escalade will run door to door with our "super fast and moddable LS" (is that genre jumping enough for you? a full size non sport luxury SUV tank runs on par with us) you really need to get off your high horse... all of you

and stop making up races, it makes you look like a tool... only reason a V (new OR old) would not be able to keep up is if he chose not to... the old ones run high 12's and the new ones will dip low 12... and you will run low 15's-high 14's.... end of story

it really makes me wonder how many of you actually came into my youtube account and started whining like little babies that something was wrong with my LS and I should have beat my friends cobalt that traps 112MPH in the 1/4 mile

YouTube- stage 5 cobalt SS vs. stock 05 Lincoln LS


also... different from 98% of the members here... I actually drag my LS and race others on camera with it (mostly as a joke amongst friends, I call it granny gold and we joke about it... it's just a grocery getter for me), so as much as you guys want to whine like little girls, make up things I have said, fabricate your own meanings and cry... I spew the facts, you can spew the subjective and the make beleive

have fun with that, next I log in I look forward to the rabble boosting this thread to the top again with countless moans and whines over how I'm sooo in the wrong for owning an LS longer than them and seeing the car for what it is... sorry, I'm not one to get down and suck the c*ck of a make and model guys xD

 

[pektel]

a new CTS-V ... if that V romped it you would be a speck in his mirror, no question about it

true story. The new cts-v is a beast right out of the box. But I can't get over it's horrid styling.

It's really too bad lincoln didn't market the LS to a different demographic. There could've been some interesting things happen with the platform.

I still really like my LS. Sure it's been a little expensive on the repair side, but it's the only car I've ever owned that I turn around to look at it when walking across the parking lot into a store.

With regards to your statment about "you can't mod the LS and make it worth your money", I think that would be up to the owner. If some dude wants to drop an insane amount of money on an engine swap/turbo/supercharger, who are you to judge of whether that is worth his money or not? It may not make it worth YOUR money to do. Just like it wouldn't be worth my money to even buy a GTO. Simply because I have 2 kids, and need 4 doors.

Also, I can't seem to find the MSRP on the, let's say, 04 BMW 545i sport. I mean, when lincoln said they wanted to compete with the 5 series, they might not have been talking about the 2nd from top 5 series (I would believe the M5 to be the flagship of the 5 series, no?) The point I'm trying to make is, find a similarly priced 5 series to compare it to.

For the record, I am an LS enthusiast, not a fanatic. I enjoy and appreciate the car for what it is, but do not have the fanatic standpoint of "best car evar". And if I can squeeze a few extra horses out of a custom tune, throw in some 4.56's and an lsd, great.

 

[Morbid Intentions]

It's really too bad lincoln didn't market the LS to a different demographic. There could've been some interesting things happen with the platform.

I agree... If lincoln would have stuffed a ford 8.8 with an LSD (the same rear in the markVIII's) that would have been a HUGE start for making the car a better "luxury sport)... all that would be needed was that and a decent aftermarket following and everything i have said in this thread would be void

I still really like my LS.

I never said I didn't enjoy the LS either... if I hated it I would have gotten rid of it after the powertrain warranty was up lol... I'm just speaking in regards to the platform being modded and going fast compared to other cars in it's class... it's a really poor choice in comparison if that is what you wish to accomplish

Sure it's been a little expensive on the repair side, but it's the only car I've ever owned that I turn around to look at it when walking across the parking lot into a store.

With regards to your statment about "you can't mod the LS and make it worth your money", I think that would be up to the owner. If some dude wants to drop an insane amount of money on an engine swap/turbo/supercharger, who are you to judge of whether that is worth his money or not? It may not make it worth YOUR money to do. Just like it wouldn't be worth my money to even buy a GTO. Simply because I have 2 kids, and need 4 doors.

I'm simply saying it's not worth the time and money for what you will have in the end... if someone wishes to spend a great amount of money and time to be the oddball that is their choice yes... but where I am coming from is if the main goal is to make a fast car (going in excess of 14 seconds to a 1/4 mile at least), you are starting with the wrong platform in the LS... espessially in this day in age

that is all I'm saying, and it baffles me why this section cannot agree

For the record, I am an LS enthusiast, not a fanatic. I enjoy and appreciate the car for what it is, but do not have the fanatic standpoint of "best car evar". And if I can squeeze a few extra horses out of a custom tune, throw in some 4.56's and an lsd, great.

that's respectable, but I already saw that you weren't a fanboy when at first you started talking... you have made the most sense out of anyone having words with me thus far in this thread

Also, I can't seem to find the MSRP on the, let's say, 04 BMW 545i sport. I mean, when lincoln said they wanted to compete with the 5 series, they might not have been talking about the 2nd from top 5 series (I would believe the M5 to be the flagship of the 5 series, no?) The point I'm trying to make is, find a similarly priced 5 series to compare it to.

it's not the MSRP that bothers me, it's the engine choice... you cannot sensibly compare a 3.9L upper class model V8 lincoln to a mediocre I6 BMW 5 series in the same class... it's just not a proper matchup... that would be like pitting a 2001 3.8L V6 mustang against a 2001 5.7L Z28 and saying "see, it's in the same class, sports coupe! and the Camaro wins! MUSTANGS SUCK!"

when everyone knows... that's just an unfair matchup

since the 5 series is a broad spectrum I can only guess that you would pit the BMW I6 against the 3.0L LS and the 3.9L LS would need to fall short against the 540i/545i

and to put things into perspective.... I raced a 2001 545i in my LS (the old boxy ass model)... and guess what happened?... and that was the old model

hell, on the highway about a year ago a late 90's 330Ci embarrassed me by about 2 cars... not sure if he had anything done though, but it was still a beating up to 130MPH from 55MPH.... I gave him a thumbs up and he returned the favor

soooo, it's not like I haven't pitted all 4 of my cams against the Bavarian horde to have an idea of what I'm talking about rather than looking at magazines

hell I probably race granny gold more than my GTO to be honest... like with these hilarious videos back when I just felt like being a clown against obviously faster cars xD

by buddies stock 2006 GT from a stop and 40 roll

YouTube- Zach vs. Brian 1

YouTube- Zach vs. Brian 2


by buddies stockish 2004 GT from a 20 roll and a 40 roll... although the sound messed up on our 40 roll, the race actually starts right @ 4 seconds in

YouTube- Jason vs Brian2

YouTube- Jason vs Brian


also, if you haven't noticed... 40MPH is our sweet spot, if you actually feel like racing people in the LS, make sure you get a 40MPH roll in for good measure along with the other races... it puts you right at the tit of 2nd and gives you the most advantage over most other cars with their longer gear ratios (ESPESSIALLY A4 GM's, HUGE gear advantage from 40MPH)

now for all the others, yeah... ask me about my racing, and say I don't understand anything about the LS's performance... I've probably looked more into making the LS fast that you have even thought of, I was also ready to dump the dollars at one point but then my sense kicked in.... all this talk of superchargers and turbochargers, if you really wanted to make your monies worth you would get a 3400 stall, BFG DR's, 4 custom ground cams (a high RPM grind), a 100 shot of nitrous, a shoehorned 8.8" LSD from a cobra, custom headers (yes, there are shops that commit ONLY to making custom headers for vehicles), and all the minor bolt on's you can find

congrats... you have a LS that is more than likely faster than my GTO (or how did you guys put it? ALMIGHTY GTO)... but here is a secret boys, my hardly modded GTO isn't fast... and neither will the maxed out (as far as stock components, and to strengthen or replace these stock components will take major dollars) LS you just created... also, if you sit down to think on the scenario I just described to you, this is where the "horsepower does not matter" comment comes from.. and it holds true

confused?

well sit down boys...

the 3400 stall gets you in your power band on the line, the BFG DR's make sure this power will stick... these two factors alone lets you hit a decent amount of power and store it away on the line waiting for the tree (BUT NOT PEAK POWER)... this along with the LSD will make your off the line power your strongpoint and rip you out of the hole faster than most other cars... with these factors I'm sure you could hit 60MPH in less than 5 seconds on a stock untouched engine to be honest... now you are off the line... your nitrous is set to engage past 3200RPM via your window switch... so AT the 60ft mark your 100 shot takes over... the horsepower advantage helps, but your main reason for hooking the juice up is to use the torque this little shot gives you down low... so theoretically right out of the hole you are barreling away with over 175-200ft lbs of torque MORE pushing your RPM's up double the speed of what it would without the juice... this is where your engine powerband takes over from your high RPM ground cams and before you know it the torque from the nitrous wears off and the engines powerband sits you back in your seat even farther... the torque provided from the nitrous is just a helper to get your RPM's up so the engine can scream, the stall, the LSD and the tires are just there so the mid range torque can be had immediately

all the while a turbocharged application will make more power.... but be slower because he's running a rushed setup designed to make power... not go fast

and this children is why dyno numbers and horsepower DOES NOT MATTER when it comes time to race

is this clear enough for you or did you kids feel like challenging me again with "what I don't know"


but no, I'm just speaking random thoughts over something I have no clue about and have never looked into

LOL

 

[pektel]

I agree... If lincoln would have stuffed a ford 8.8 with an LSD (the same rear in the markVIII's) that would have been a HUGE start for making the car a better "luxury sport)... all that would be needed was that and a decent aftermarket following and everything i have said in this thread would be void


also, if you haven't noticed... 40MPH is our sweet spot, if you actually feel like racing people in the LS, make sure you get a 40MPH roll in for good measure along with the other races... it puts you right at the tit of 2nd and gives you the most advantage over most other cars with their longer gear ratios (ESPESSIALLY A4 GM's, HUGE gear advantage from 40MPH)

now for all the others, yeah... ask me about my racing, and say I don't understand anything about the LS's performance... I've probably looked more into making the LS fast that you have even thought of, I was also ready to dump the dollars at one point but then my sense kicked in.... all this talk of superchargers and turbochargers, if you really wanted to make your monies worth you would get a 3400 stall, BFG DR's, 4 custom ground cams (a high RPM grind), a 100 shot of nitrous, a shoehorned 8.8" LSD from a cobra, custom headers (yes, there are shops that commit ONLY to making custom headers for vehicles), and all the minor bolt on's you can find

congrats... you have a LS that is more than likely faster than my GTO (or how did you guys put it? ALMIGHTY GTO)... but here is a secret boys, my hardly modded GTO isn't fast... and neither will the maxed out (as far as stock components, and to strengthen or replace these stock components will take major dollars) LS you just created

but no, I'm just speaking random thoughts over something I have no clue about and have never looked into

LOL

I am actually on the verge of ordering a TCI Streetfighter with the stall speed of 3400. Weird how you mention the exact stall speed I had already planned on doing. They offer it as 3000rpm standard.

I do have the 8.8" carrier out of an 05 mustang gt installed already in the 8.0" pumpkin. But I do have the 8.8" pumpkin from a Mark viii ready and waiting until I order the 4.56's. Then all it is, is a little custom welding, and a custom driveshaft. I'll see how traction is after that.

In reference to cams, I really don't know how far I want to take the LS, for the exact reasons you are describing. It's expensive to mod this car. The $:results just isn't working in the car's favor. I'm sure you are aware that the cams would be different setups depending on if one were to do an all motor setup compared to an FI setup. Again though, not sure how much I want to dump into it.



no plans for nitrous thus far. I would like to find a decent used engine to have at the ready for when this one goes (152K on the clock right now).

As far as where it sits against the BMW's, I honestly am not all too familiar with the 5 series lineup. The one that has always drawn my attention is the M5, so I didn't know about the 535 I6 and 545 v8 differences. I've also never raced a BMW of any series, so I can't argue how fast or slow they are.

 

[pektel]

and this children is why dyno numbers and horsepower DOES NOT MATTER when it comes time to race


LOL

Agreed. By properly using your power band, much greater results can be had. Much of my reasoning for the higher stall converter.

 

[05 LS8]

LOL

that is all I have to say to this

you are a complete idiot if you even had a THOUGHT a new CTS-V would have problems staying even 5 car lengths of you... if that V romped it you would be a speck in his mirror, no question about it

also, the same reason the GTO came up is the same reason it got brought up here.... and yes, the GTO CAN outcorner the LS (not a big surprise), and the root of my explaination there was the fact you cannot mod them... at all.. and make it worth your money

and you cut my explanation short, I said my GTO can beat the LS and MY GTO IS SLOW IS COMPARISON TO WHAT IS FAST)

THAT being said, as I said before... in a world where the new escalade will run door to door with our "super fast and moddable LS" (is that genre jumping enough for you? a full size non sport luxury SUV tank runs on par with us) you really need to get off your high horse... all of you

and stop making up races, it makes you look like a tool... only reason a V (new OR old) would not be able to keep up is if he chose not to... the old ones run high 12's and the new ones will dip low 12... and you will run low 15's-high 14's.... end of story

it really makes me wonder how many of you actually came into my youtube account and started whining like little babies that something was wrong with my LS and I should have beat my friends cobalt that traps 112MPH in the 1/4 mile

YouTube- stage 5 cobalt SS vs. stock 05 Lincoln LS


also... different from 98% of the members here... I actually drag my LS and race others on camera with it (mostly as a joke amongst friends, I call it granny gold and we joke about it... it's just a grocery getter for me), so as much as you guys want to whine like little girls, make up things I have said, fabricate your own meanings and cry... I spew the facts, you can spew the subjective and the make beleive

have fun with that, next I log in I look forward to the rabble boosting this thread to the top again with countless moans and whines over how I'm sooo in the wrong for owning an LS longer than them and seeing the car for what it is... sorry, I'm not one to get down and suck the c*ck of a make and model guys xD

Commando, stop making yourself look like an idiot in front of all these people and just try using your time wisely instead……go back to the gym and beef up your biceps more.

You haven’t proved anything to anybody, cause you don’t know what the f#uck you are talking about. On the second page you said, “there are few boosted and juiced LS's and they are pulling slower times than a tune only GTO.” On the 4th page you told Rainjacks “I NEVER ONCE COMPARED MY GTO TO THE LS!” What the f#uck you call that then, if it’s not comparing. You keep calling everybody slow, meanwhile you are the slow one………

Who are you to say “why someone would mod an LS... or even spend money into making it a little tiny bit quicker than dog slow is beyond me” Why? As mentioned before about 29 times, because we like the car for what it is and its got class, unlike the ugly GTOs. You don’t seem to comprehend that. Why buy a GTO or modify it. I would never set my foot in one, even if they made 1000hp right out of the box and you could buy them new for $15,000. Those cars are just ugly.

I didn’t make up the race with the CTS V. What are you Nostradamus? You know what I do and don’t….. you fanok. I am very well aware, how fast CTS Vs are. Now you see my point that it all comes down to driving skills. The guy had 500hp under the hood of that car, but couldn’t use it to pass a Lincoln LS making half the power. Again, when I go out driving its on public roads, I am not running a car down a quarter mile track, where power does make a difference.

You must be related to #1Fordfan. He wasn’t good at reading between the lines and neither are you.

 

[Andemusprime]

wait when did i say i knew more about the LS then you? I said dont ruin a guys excitment, never said i new more. Never claimed i owned it long either. I just got it....havent even paid tax and title yet. And yes i would love to see the porsche go on a road track with a vette....it would be great. The only thing i ever see besides other vettes is the rare fox body from time to time.

 

[Morbid Intentions]

I didn’t make up the race with the CTS V. What are you Nostradamus? You know what I do and don’t….. you fanok. I am very well aware, how fast CTS Vs are. Now you see my point that it all comes down to driving skills. The guy had 500hp under the hood of that car, but couldn’t use it to pass a Lincoln LS making half the power. Again, when I go out driving its on public roads, I am not running a car down a quarter mile track, where power does make a difference.

my god you sound like a ricer, forget an anything else... this right here shows me your useless credibility to anything that might be related REMOTELY to racing or performance talk

forget the ET for one second (I wouldn't expect you to know what an "ET" is with the way you talk) and look at trap speed if it makes your fragile warped infantile mind all warm and fuzzy.... a trap speed is literally how fast a car is on the street... and 2-3MPH is a HUGE difference... and the new CTS-V traps like 114MPH if I remember off the top of my head... compared to your 96-97MPH trap on a good day?

and he couldn't pass you?

LOL, hilarious

also, I invite you to check out this video I took it upon myself to make for kids like yourself

YouTube- 1/4 mile 101

this way you actually have an understanding of your "I am not running a car down a quarter mile track, where power does make a difference." and just how idiotic it sounds (pay close attention to 2:10 into the video for your education)

sit down jack, you're bothering me

 

[LS4me]

With all this useless information to the OP I'll bet he's long gone.

Has his question even been answered?

 

[DENNISJR60]

my god you sound like a ricer, forget an anything else... this right here shows me your useless credibility to anything that might be related REMOTELY to racing or performance talk

forget the ET for one second (I wouldn't expect you to know what an "ET" is with the way you talk) and look at trap speed if it makes your fragile warped infantile mind all warm and fuzzy.... a trap speed is literally how fast a car is on the street... and 2-3MPH is a HUGE difference... and the new CTS-V traps like 114MPH if I remember off the top of my head... compared to your 96-97MPH trap on a good day?

and he couldn't pass you?

LOL, hilarious

also, I invite you to check out this video I took it upon myself to make for kids like yourself

YouTube- 1/4 mile 101

this way you actually have an understanding of your "I am not running a car down a quarter mile track, where power does make a difference." and just how idiotic it sounds (pay close attention to 2:10 into the video for your education)

sit down jack, you're bothering me

You never responded to me about trying to go against my 94 Supra? We got some cars out here in Vegas that will make your car look like it's standing still.

 

[Morbid Intentions]

You never responded to me about trying to go against my 94 Supra? We got some cars out here in Vegas that will make your car look like it's standing still.

we have cars in michigan too... they have 4 wheels and go VROOM! VROOM!.. comparing other peoples cars to make up for your argument is a new low I see lol

and your 94 supra? is it the age old classic 16,000WHP 12 second tractionless wonder that races on the dyno?

xD

Supra's so have a HUGE following of jokes surrounding them, I get a kick out of them

I think it's funny you are trying to prove your worth to a person that already called his car slow... but in comparison only has a CAI and tune