God is Only a Theory

I know that song very well Jerry. I have that album on vinyl,,, along with most of Parson's collection. You may know the history,,, but Parson was connected to Floyd back in the day. The English/"Brits" had a very dreary but accurate outlook on life. So as is true by other countries that are part of the socialism that has become their way of life. As I have mentioned elsewhere in another thread,,, I have a work friend from Danmark... who is very obscured in her beliefs about God,,, because over there the religion of the country... IS controlled by the state.

There you go Shagdrum... another proof of what this country was actually founded on,,, that Danmark doesn't have!!!!

Anyway Jerry... to quote floyd:

"The tolling of the iron bell. Calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spells."

and...

"And then one day you find ten years have got behind you. No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun." "Every year is getting shorter, never seem to find the time. Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines."

Almost seems as if Floyd was poking at America. Can't say he was wrong. But which country came first. Both have the same problems... one influenced by the other.


Also...

"And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry
And all your touch and all you see
Is all your life will ever be"

"Run, rabbit, run
Dig that hole, forget the sun,
And when at last the work is done
Don't sit down, it's time to dig another one"

All part of the same song:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPx5oatgxO8

Fotunately... Floyd was wrong to a point,,, while he was trying to understand the addiction of a close friend. GOD give us all the hope we need as long as we seek him,

Another Kansas song that was something I have appreciated over the years. I didn't find until after most of my suffering. I wore the record out a few years ago... and am looking for a replacement.

Two Cents Worth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mInRRjQJ7Jg

Lyrics compliment of A-Z

"Two Cents Worth"


Well I been drinkin' again
And I know it's a sin
But I just can't refuse an old friend
Cause life is gettin' me down
And I been two times around
And there ain't nothing but pain around the bend
I'm not made for the time
I'm born in the wrong century
There's too much craziness here
In twenty-five years I have used all the tears in my eyes

Now this old world is a fright
You know my future ain't bright
And I'd just crawl in a hole if I could
Or maybe live out in space
Or some other far away place
And not come back to this earth till it's good
Oh but I'm dreaming again
I know that I'm here till the end
There's too much craziness here
In twenty-five years I have used all the tears in my eyes

Well you might think that I'm all wrong
The things I say in this song
I really wish I could see it your way
Cause there's a storm rollin' in
And it just might be the end
So I'm praying we'll all get away
Now my cup is running dry
The weight of the world gets me down
There's too much craziness here
In twenty-five years I have used all the tears in my eyes

There's nowhere to turn
So I'll just have to learn not to cry, no more
It's all I can do till we find something new
But I'll get by you know I'll try
In twenty-five years I have used all the tears in my eyes

While I didn't use all of my tears in 25 years,,, I used many of them by the time I was 23. I went on to make further mistakes by my own choice... so I used more of my tears in 45 years of my life. I have since made peace with my past... and only wish to move forward. I hope you can do the same,,, while realizing that no matter what... God loves you.

A few last Kansas songs to mention... most on the "Point of no Return" album:

"He knew"

"Miracles out of Nowhwere"

"Carry On MY Wayward Son"

These songs have to do with Jesus. If you sudy the history of Kansas... some of the members were Chistian,,, and always were. The lyrics and message in their songs reflect that.

I could throw a thousand or more Christian songs your way Jerry... to help you find Faith,,, but you will gravitate toward what you know to be true in your heart... IF God is your focus.
 
I think Parson was a believer too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK-_2G7MMgc

Lyrics, once again compliment of Google Play:


Ammonia Avenue

The Alan Parsons Project

Lyrics

Is there no sign of light as we stand in the darkness?
Watching the sun arise
Is there no sign of life as we gaze at the waters?
Into the strangers eyes

And who are we to criticize or scorn the things that they do?
For we shall seek and we shall find Ammonia Avenue
If we call for the proof and we question the answers


Only the doubt will grow
Are we blind to the truth or a sign to believe in?
Only the wise will know
And word by word they handed down the light that shines today
And those who came at first to scoff, remained behind to pray
Yes those who came at first to scoff, remained behind to pray
When you can't hear the rhyme and you can't see the reason
Why should the hope remain?


For a man will be tired and his soul will grow weary
Living his life in vain
And who are we to justify the right in all we do?
Until we seek until we find Ammonia Avenue
Through all the doubt somehow they knew
And stone by stone they built it high
Until the sun broke through
A ray of hope, a shining light Ammonia Avenue
 
So as long as I am waiting... I guess I'll take on the task of typing out the part of the eulogy of my friends moms funeral,,, that I gave beyond discussing family memories. This goes back to post #371 and 372.

Sermon as follows:

In the middle of a hectic day Friday, a prior commitment for later that evening had slipped my mind . I no sooner got home, and was busy making phone calls, when I heard a knock at the door. It was a couple of buddies that i do Bible study with on Friday nights. I told them to come in and start without me and that I would join them as soon as I could.

About 20 minutes later I sat down, only to get sucked right into the middle of a debate over some Bible verses. How often we do that as Christians. We think we have God figured out, and try to convince other people to see things from our viewpoint, only to find out that we don't know as much as we think we do. Why can't we see that God uses different people in different ways???

Anyway... I'm flipping back and forth between Books and Chapters, doing my best to prove both of them right and wrong based on what > I < know. When something jumped out at me that was very relevant for the day I had just experienced,and it completely blew me away.

Before I read what it was, I want to tell you a little of what happened earlier that day... I was racing around, trying to get things accomplished, talking to God at the same time, and feeling a little overwhelmed. I realized that there was no way I could get things to come together on my own, and I said with tears running down my cheeks: "GOD, you WILL do this!"

It was not a demand, but for one fleeting moment I took a step of complete and total Faith in Him. I had nothing else. Again... why do we always try to figure GOD out, and when we can't, we just give up on Him, or try to do everything ourselves? Why can't we just live our lives trusting Him and knowing that He never gives up on us and that we just need to let Him take over?

Needless to say, everything did come together, and once again I was feeling overwhelmed, but this time, at how wonderful GOD is........

The bible verses come from Romans chapter 11, verses 33-36, in the New Living Translation:

33- Oh, what a wonderful God we have! How great are His riches and wisdom and knowledge! How impossible it is for us to understand His decisions and methods!

34- For who can know what the Lord is thinking? Who knows enough to be His counselor?

35-And who could ever give him so much that He would have to pay it back?

36-For everything comes from Him; everything exists y His power and is intended for His glory. All glory to himforever! Amen.


My hope and prayer for everyone in this room, is that some day God gives you an "AHA"! moment, and that you et it! That God is not a specific pattern or formula. You understand that you need Him in your life. And from that point on, you start trusting Him with every aspect of your life.

Through Christ, anything is possible. Thank you Lord Jesus, AMEN!!!



That's it. That's my sermon during my friends mom's eulogy. Sorry if I let some of you down... but I spoke the Truth. In know my friend liked it,,, and so did some of her family members.
 
So Don... still waiting. Don't feel bad if you are confused. It took me better than 5 days to make a proper exegesis of Kings and Chronicles... just to make sure I didn't have an improper eisigesis of Scripture.
 
Again Don... I'm just waiting for your response on exactly what you believe about how Kings and Chronicles fits together,,, before I respond with my research on Elijah.
 
Again........... Jeopardy music...........................................................................................................................................
 
don-ohio said:
Quote 04 question:`" Do you believe that 1st Kings, 2nd Kings, 1st Chronicles, and 2nd Chronicles overlap each other...or are all of those Books of the Bible in a linear ,(chonological), timeline of history?'

Asked and answered in POST #355 back on the SECOND of August. : ` I am now at home. If you mean does Chronicles run AFTER Kings, then NO,it doesn't.It gives events in order just as Kings does, and fills in details not given in Kings. Ezra is credited for writing Chronicles.
So if you have Kings,it is like Matthew,and Chronicles is like Luke, covering basically the same period of the Kings of Israel and Judah,but each account supplying details the other may not. don-ohio :)^)`END QUOTE


Here's the scoop: 1st Kings runs from the final days of King David (about 1040 B.C.)to the death of Judean King Jehoshaphat (about 920 B.C.),so about 129 yrs.
2nd Kings begins with Ahaziah's reign from 920 B.C. to the end of the 37th year of Jehoiachin's exile or about the year 580 B.C.,so about 340 yrs.
So Kings runs pretty linear in time.Kings,like Chronicles was considered one book,not 2, in older days.
NOW, Chronicles,also lnear in time to itself, runs from the death of King Saul to the carrying away of exiles to Babylon, with a conclusion telling of Cyrus decree at the end of the 70 yr. exile,so 537 B.C.
don-ohio :)^)
Click to expand...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Quote 04:`WRM... You still around??? Learn anything yet??? I'm still open to a discussion with you. '

What Wrm has learned so far is that you don't believe a statement of fact by Jesus.You're showing you only believe parts of the Bible. Bad example,04. don-ohio :)^)
 
Sorry to disappoint you Don,,, but as I have already said... I believe ALL of the Bible. I just know better than to believe your mixed up viewpoint on Scripture. By alot of what you have said in 2 different threads,,, you make it appear as though the Jehovah Witnesses are trying to transplant themselves as the true Jews.

Oh,,, by the way... I read the Isaiah verse you mentioned earlier, (from the New World Trasnlation),,, and I didn't see the word Tetregrammaton there. However... I did see the word Jehovah. So again,,, the word Tetragrammaton is not God Himself... but a word used to describe the Name of God. Again "YHWH".
 
So you do not believe that kings and Chronicles overlap each other in the history of time?

And actually... from what I have found,,, your timeline is off a little bit. You have Jehoshaphat dying at 920 BC... when Rehoboam was actually king at that time in Judah. Then Abijah, then Asa, THEN Jehoshaphat.... from roughly 873–849 BC.
 
I just told you that Chronicles goes back a little farther than Kings,to the death of Saul......that's just a few decades earlier than the death of David. I wouldn't call that an overlap of any import.
Nah,your dates are wrong,04. The 920 date is correct within a year or two. There's always going to be disagreement between the scholars on dates. I disagree with you,though I am only a Bible student, not a full-time scholar.
I have noticed that this also is in contention concerning Babylon's conquering in 607 B.C. Others have put it at a later date. I believe it was 607 B.C. to 537 B.C. concerning the 70 years of captivity of the Jews in Babylon. I have another reason to believe this,but it is only arrived at by intense scrutiny of the seven times mentioned in Daniel.
A person like you who does not believe: Psalms promise of a paradise Earth, Jesus promise to the evildoer on the torture stake that he would be with Jesus in Paradise, Jesus' words that the meek shall inherit the Earth, Isaiah's words concerning the peace to come ON THE EARTH,etc......a person that doesn't believe ALL of the Bible would never be able to learn advanced prophecies.
don-ohio :)^)
 
Quote Don:

"I have another reason to believe this,but it is only arrived at by intense scrutiny of the seven times mentioned in Daniel."

So under YOUR intense scrutiny,,, you find something in Daniel... that changes the timeline of the Kings of both tribes? Have you checked this with your elders or the watchtower society??? You keep saying you believe this or you believe that... but who do you answer to for accounability to make sure you are staying within sound Scriptural teaching???
 
So you believe that 1st Kings and 2nd Kings are linear to each other... and that 1st Cronicles and 2nd Cronicles are linear to each other,,, but that Kings and Chronicles don't overlap each other timewise???
 
I JUST answered that. I said that they run concurrently. They cover the same basic periods, but Chronicles starts earlier at Saul's death. What are you getting at?
Also, the timeline will always be disputed as I said. The prophecy in Daniel is accurate and proven true by momentous World events (as predicted by Christ himself)in the past. I'll say no more about this as it will never be understood by someone without explicit faith in the veracity of Yahweh's word.
don-ohio :)^)
 
I guess maybe you do think they overlap in a way,,, because you said this in post #384:

" If you mean does Chronicles run AFTER Kings, then NO,it doesn't.It gives events in order just as Kings does, and fills in details not given in Kings."
 
What am I getting at??? From my viewpoint Kings and Chronicles DO overlap,,, because they mention some of the same Kings in BOTH set of Books. Are we in agreement on that at least?
 
Quote Don:

"What Wrm has learned so far is that you don't believe a statement of fact by Jesus.You're showing you only believe parts of the Bible. Bad example,04. don-ohio :)^) "

No again Don... I believe ALL parts of the Bible,,, just NOT YOUR interpretation of them... and I think Wrm made it clear many pages back,,, how he feels about you.

Since all of Psalms is futuristic prohecy... I'm going to assume that you think all of the Books off the Prophets are futuristic in prophecy too. So what is your futuristic view on the Book of Zechariah????
 
This we agree on. Same Kings are covered. Chronicles written by Ezra, has added details to the Kings account, written by Jeremiah.Plus Chronicles has a LONG Genealogy listing.

Also: What the Wrm thinks about me,I could not care less. What he decides to believe......I do care only because we are not to give up on people until there is no more time to help them.
don-ohio :)^)
 
Quote 04: ` Since all of Psalms is futuristic prohecy... I'm going to assume that you think all of the Books off the Prophets are futuristic in prophecy too. So what is your futuristic view on the Book of Zechariah???? ' END QUOTE

Well, 04,part of it has been fulfilled and part is BEING fulfilled. The book was written around 520 -518 B.C. and the fulfillments of Alexander's campaign in Syria, Phoenicia, and Philistia and the conquest of Tyre and Gaza fit Zech. 9:1-8. Zech.9:9 foretells Jesus being humble and riding upon a donkey. The subsequent SCATTERING of the DISCIPLES at Zech. 13:17, Jesus being pierced with a spear while on the torture stake at Zech 12:10 and the wailing of House of David and people of Jerusalem because of the One they had pierced through are all examples of divine prophecy fulfilled hundreds of years after being spoken.

don-ohio :)^)
 
I'd have to agree with your last statement. The only thing I might add,,, is that the first part of Zech has to do with the Babylonian release of the Jews from captivity... and being allowed to return to their land with Zerubbabel starting the rebuilding of the temple. This aligns with the Book of Ezra also.
 
Yeah... Been in Daniel a few times too. My favorite part is about the "firery furnace". Reminds me that Hebrews chapter 11 is TRUE. Those that died in Faith during Old Testament times... RECEIVED the same PROMISE by God,,, given to Abraham.

It's been a nice moment of peace between you and I Don... and I hope it lasts,,, (But somehow figurre it won't).

What I am about to say Don... is meant in "brotherly love",,, but you might not see it that way.

I told you that I had been looking into Kings and Chronicles,,, and had some evidences about Elijah. I've been wait6ing for confirmation from a third party... who's website I have used many times in this thread.

Seems according to roughly 250 other "Bible students"... I was "spot on" about what I had researched,,, so I am now going to print my response to you... that was approved by other "collective" students.

Cam... if you want,,, I will PM you with all pertaining e-mails.

Any way Don... my original response to you was meant to be this:


Thank you for your response. Keep in mind that I am just a "lay" person, and have no formal Biblical schooling except for what I have come to understand through church and private study. Below you will find my response to the Jehovah Witness regarding when Elijah was taken up.





Ok... after a few days of study,,, and jumping back and forth between Kings and Chronicles... I think I might have this figured out.

First Don... let's look at the lives of King Ahab,,, and King Jehoshaphat. Ahab ruled the 10 tribes of Israel,,, and Jehoshaphat ruled the 2 tribes of Judah. This is mentioned in BOTH 1st Kings 22,,, AND 2nd Chronicles 18... ... and BOTH Books say that Ahab died.

Ahaziah then replaced Ahab as king of the 10 tribes of Israel... while Jehoshaphat was STILL King of Judah. This is mentioned at the END of 1st Kings 22... and the BEGINNING of 2nd Kings 1.

HOWEVER... if a person were to take a close look at the last couple verses in 2nd Kings 1... they would find out when King Ahaziah of Israel actually died.

2nd Kings 1:17

NWT:

17 So he died, according to the word of Jehovah that E·liʹjah had spoken; and because he did not have a son, Je·hoʹram*HYPERLINK "/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/mcr/16331019/"+ became king in his place, in the second year of Je·hoʹram+ the son of Je·hoshʹa·phat the king of Judah.

NASB:

17So Ahaziah died according to the word of the LORD which Elijah had spoken. And because he had no son, Jehoram became king in his place in the second year of Jehoram the son of Jehoshaphat, king of Judah.

Notice verse 17 says that when Jehoram, (son of Ahaziah) became king of Isreal... Jehoram, (Jehoshaphat's son), was already King of Judah.

THIS IS WHEN Jehoram,,, son of Jehoshaphat is King of Judah!!!

THEN comes the story about Elijah being taken up by a whirlwind... in 2nd Kings 2. So now Jump to 2nd Chronicles 21 about Jehoram of Judah.

If a person has eyes to see,,, and a mind to understand,,, it becomes very clear that 2nd Chronicles 21... is a continuing side story of 2nd Kings 1,,, BEFORE Elijah was taken up in the whirlwind.

So Don... Elijah wrote the letter to King Jehoram of Judah,,, BEFORE Elijah was taken up in the whirlwind by God. And if you remember some of the story surrounding that... in 2nd kings 2... ELISHA finally let people search for ELIJAH,,, but no one found him.

　

If this isn't enough proof that the letter by Elijah to Jehoram was written before Elijah was taken up in the whirlwind... let's look at the latter half of 2nd Kings 8,,, and compare it to 2nd Chronicles 22!!! When Jehoram, (Jehoshaphat's son), died... Ahaziah, (not Ahab's son, but Jehoram's son), ruled as King over Judah. Again... this is mentioned in the latter half of 2nd Kings 8,,, and ALSO in 2nd Chronicles 22.

What's even better,,, is that in 2nd Chronicles 22... The OTHER Ahaziah is mentioned,,, as the son of Ahab. So this ties 2nd Chronicles 22... waaaayyy back to 1st Kings 22,,, and 2nd Kings 1. So what is mentioned after the prophecy of Jehoram by Elijah in Chronicles 21... POST-DATES when Elijah wrote the letter to Jehoram,,, but PRE-DATES back to 1st and 2nd Kings. So Chronicles 21 and 22 ARE in linear time history to each other... just as 1st Kings 22 and 2nd Kings 1&2 ARE in linear time history ALSO... and they are parallel stories of the same linear time frame.

So then Don... where is Elijah now??? I know one place he was seen many centuries... or a millenia or so later,,, by 3 of Jesus' Apostles.... and he was WITH Jesus!!! And don't forget that Malachi 3 predicts the return of Elijah (making way for Jesus),,, and in Matthew 17:10-13... The Bible shows the Apostles understanding that John the Baptist was Elijah returned.
 
However... while I was waiting on my response from a third party... I did more research into Kings and Chronicles,,, and found other "evidences" that woud prove that Elijah was taken up AFTER the letter sent to Jehoram of Judah.

So my more recent response to you would be this... (same as before,,, but with more added in the latter half):

Ok... after a few days of study,,, and jumping back and forth between Kings and Chronicles... I think I might have this figured out.
First Don... let's look at the lives of King Ahab,,, and King Jehoshaphat. Ahab ruled the 10 tribes of Israel,,, and Jehoshaphat ruled the 2 tribes of Judah. This is mentioned in BOTH 1st Kings 22,,, AND 2nd Chronicles 18... ... and BOTH Books say that Ahab died.
Ahaziah then replaced Ahab as king of the 10 tribes of Israel... while Jehoshaphat was STILL King of Judah. This is mentioned at the END of 1st Kings 22... and the BEGINNING of 2nd Kings 1.

HOWEVER... if a person were to take a close look at the last couple verses in 2nd Kings 1... they would find out when King Ahaziah of Israel actually died.

2nd Kings 1:17
NWT:


17 So he died, according to the word of Jehovah that E·liʹjah had spoken; and because he did not have a son, Je·hoʹram*+ became king in his place, in the second year of Je·hoʹram+ the son of Je·hoshʹa·phat the king of Judah.
NASB:

17So Ahaziah died according to the word of the LORD which Elijah had spoken. And because he had no son, Jehoram became king in his place in the second year of Jehoram the son of Jehoshaphat, king of Judah.
Notice verse 17 says that when Jehoram, (son of Ahaziah) became king of Isreal... Jehoram, (Jehoshaphat's son), was already King of Judah.

THIS IS WHEN Jehoram,,, son of Jehoshaphat is King of Judah!!!

THEN comes the story about Elijah being taken up by a whirlwind... in 2nd Kings 2. So now Jump to 2nd Chronicles 21 about Jehoram of Judah.

If a person has eyes to see,,, and a mind to understand,,, it becomes very clear that 2nd Chronicles 21... is a continuing side story of 2nd Kings 1,,, BEFORE Elijah was taken up in the whirlwind. Or as you would say,,, Chronicles is filling in details not given in Kings.
So Don... Elijah wrote the letter to King Jehoram of Judah,,, BEFORE Elijah was taken up in the whirlwind by God. And if you remember some of the story surrounding that... in 2nd kings 2... ELISHA finally let people search for ELIJAH,,, but no one found him.

If this isn't enough proof that the letter by Elijah to Jehoram was written before Elijah was taken up in the whirlwind... let's look at the latter half of 2nd Kings 8,,, and compare it to 2nd Chronicles 22!!! When Jehoram, (Jehoshaphat's son), died... Ahaziah, (not Ahab's son, but Jehoram's son), ruled as King over Judah. Again... this is mentioned in the latter half of 2nd Kings 8,,, and ALSO in 2nd Chronicles 22.

What's even better,,, is that in 2nd Chronicles 22... The Ahaziah of Judah is mentioned,,, and make and alliance with Jehoram the son of Ahab. So this ties 2nd Chronicles 22... waaaayyy back to 1st Kings 22,,, and 2nd Kings 1... and 2nd Kings 8. So what is mentioned after the prophecy of Jehoram by Elijah in Chronicles 21... POST-DATES when Elijah wrote the letter to Jehoram,,, but PRE-DATES back to 1st and 2nd Kings. So Chronicles 21 and 22 ARE in linear time history to each other... just as 1st Kings 22 and 2nd Kings 1&2 ARE in linear time history ALSO... and they are parallel stories of the same linear time frame.

Again Don... when comparing Kings and Chroicles to each other, (to fill in details),,, it becomes appearant that Elijah was taken up in the whirlwind, (chariot of fire), after the letter written to Jehoram of Judah. And Elijah ws not taken away to a second assignment in Judah. His last prophecy before the whilwind was to Jehoram of Judah.

Also... 2nd Kings 11 parallels 2nd Chronicles 23 (remember... Elijah was taken up in 2nd Kings 2),,, And from that point... there is alot of the same history mentioned from 2nd Choricles forward... and 2nd Kings forward. In some ways it seems that Kings at times... gives more details than Chronicles. So just one more proof that Elijah gave the prophecy/letter to Jehoram,,, before Elijah was taken up.
You could also compare the end of 1st kings 22... and the end of 2nd Chronicles 20. BOTH of these PREDATE the whirlwind... AND Elijah's prophecy to Jehoram of Judah.

So then Don... where is Elijah now??? I know one place he was seen many centuries... or a millenia or so later,,, by 3 of Jesus' Apostles.... and he was WITH Jesus!!! And don't forget that Malachi 3 predicts the return of Elijah (making way for Jesus),,, and in Matthew 17:10-13... The Bible shows the Apostles understanding that John the Baptist was Elijah returned.
 
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