Timing Chain Teardown Time

joegr said:
I have to say that I do not believe this. Show me a picture of a Town Car without a front upper control arm. If there's an upper arm, then it is coil over shock, just like the LS. I find this particularly funny since many TCs had front air suspension.
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I'm sorry I may have described it incorrectly. I ordered a quick strut, which has the spring and shock within for the fronts. The rear of the TC had an air ride setup but it was converted to spring since the previous owner decided not to get the air ride serviced.
 
Hector said:
I'm sorry I may have described it incorrectly. I ordered a quick strut, which has the spring and shock within for the fronts. The rear of the TC had an air ride setup but it was converted to spring since the previous owner decided not to get the air ride serviced.
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Yeah. Sorry, I did mean rear for the air suspension.
A lot of places call them struts, but they aren't. I have a 325i. That car does have struts. There is a difference.
 
I own a mark too that has low miles and not snow driven. Compared to other non luxury cars I have owned, with lower new cost, my 42,000.00 1996 Mark 8 sure needed a lot more things with 120,000 miles . These marks and I love mine, take a lot of fixing for a car that sold for 40 grnd. I would expect new owners who experienced LS lemons sedans to never buy another mark. There is too much big and small stuff to go bad on a car this expensive when new.For instance, no horn at 120 k, fix, find clock spring all over gods green earth 80 used 120 new, took 1 year, Intake manifold runner controls. Took 3 years to find.Had to drive on illegal plates for lack of parts to pass Ohio e check. Drove real slow and under speed limit until winder. Then drove my winter beater. Got luckey and found a 1996 at pull a part. Took both rt and left imrc. 3 dollars each. They thought they were choke pull offs., Front end needs a ball joint at 120K, Easy to find. Want to rebuild entire front end. Moog prefered. Electric truunk and glass door never worked. The drivers door lock fell out. Took 2 years to find another orginal. Orginal wheels were taken off the car before sold. Took 3 years and 300 bucks to find a set of 4 in Michigan. Nice road trip, I enjoyed. I am restoring everything back to working condition and orginal Plan on keeping it till I die. Then will it on or sell it before I go because persons I know won't take care and couldn't keep up with expensive repairs. Bu now I have the entire board mad at me. It is what it is
 
Right on the Mark said:
Note: You are suppose to change out the teflon "o"rings on the fan lines.(and PS lines) You need install tool to slide and strech the stiff teflon o'ring over the threads. The tool looks like a bullet I make my own just a FYI.
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What is your source for the teflon o-rings? I need some.
 
I've only skimmed bit and pieces of this thread... but if anybody is looking for a place to rent the cam tools:

http://www.specialtyautotoolrentals.com/product_info.php?products_id=252

Don't know how reputiable they are... but I added roughly a month rental to the cart,,, and it was $125 + $45 deposit. A week is only about $31+$45. Didn't go to checkout to see how much shipping was. That depends on location. Deposit may not be necessary.

FAQ's:

http://www.specialtyautotoolrentals.com/faq.php?osCsid=i5lhccgeuq95618ks9on9jpdr6

Not affilited with company or website. Just showing the tools can be rented reasonably.
 
Christopher's Foreign Parts is, I believe, cheaper, and has a broad assortment of parts and tools.

Parts stores carry teflon rings, but finding the correct size can be a chore. Napa will have a box that you can sort through. The other stores will likely have an assortment. The easiest path is going to the dealer's parts desk.
 
I bought my cam chain kit from Christophers. The cam tool set I ordered from Amazon. About 75.00 new. Rather have it than
rent since I didn't know how long I was going to take to do the job.
 
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Quote oddball:

"Christopher's Foreign Parts is, I believe, cheaper, and has a broad assortment of parts and tools."

Depends on how you look at it. Christopher's website says about the Lincoln cam set:


IF YOU WISH TO RENT THE TOOL KIT, JUST GO AHEAD AND PURCHASE IT.

• THEN WHEN YOU RETURN IT , I WILL REFUND YOUR DEPOSIT TO YOU.

So you're gonna pay $400 to rent the tool,,, then get your money back EXCEPT for shipping both ways. Some people doing the timing chains on the LS,,, are laying out cash for the parts... to the point they can't afford another $400. Be it however temporary,,, $400 could cut into the parts budget.

I just simply offered another alternative that would most likely be time saving, (and possibly cheaper), in the long run... because more funds could be put toward parts. The "specialty tools" website... ships the tools with a return shipping label. Just box up when done,,, and call the shipper to pick it up.

Granted... what Christopher's offers for parts for the LS,,, is great... and the "master link" setup they use on the timing chains is ingenious to the point that the front cover on the LS may not need to be removed, (depending on the knowlege, tools, and experience of the person doing the repairs).

I guess my point is when buying $900 in parts,,, a person may not be able to afford another "temporary" $400... but may be able to afford another $100 total,,, to get the job done.

It all depends on circumstances.
 
Also... if for some reason a person decides to pull the cam gears, (gen 1), or cam phasers, (gen 2),,, keep in mind that the bolts that attach them to the cams... are ONE TIME USE ONLY according to Ford. So make sure you buy new bolts if you pull the cam gears/phasers. They're only about $5 each.
 
I am currently attempting to pull off the timing chain replacement on my 00 LS, I think I am going to get the job done thanks to this post. I do have a couple questions/just to make sure things. Am I correct in thinking I am going to be able to move the ac compressor out of the way enough to attack the PS pump without losing refrigerant? Also do you think I might be able to fashion something to hold the cams and just zip tie the crankshaft through the CPS hole and the window next to it??
 
Hey, Are you wanting to replace just the upper tensioners or all 4? If all 4 you'll have to remove the A/C compressor unfortunately, there is just NO room for anything and would have to be to facilitate removing the front timing cover. If you are just doing the top two, other members here have successfully replaced them with just removing the Cam covers. It's tight but "do-able"!

Yes, you could use some flat bar stock to line the "flats" of the cams up. I think some have done that with the bar stock with drilled holes to fit into the cam cover fastener holes, have to use long bolts though. Not sure on the zip tie thing, it may work.
Let us know the progress of your replacement!
 
Im having a hard time finding this but what are the torque spec for the cams, cam shaft but MAINLY the tensioners front BOLTS and on top of the motor secondary tensioner along WITH what are the torque number for the timing cover bolts.
 
Csutter35 said:
Im having a hard time finding this but what are the torque spec for the cams, cam shaft but MAINLY the tensioners front BOLTS and on top of the motor secondary tensioner along WITH what are the torque number for the timing cover bolts.
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Again, it's important to say which generation (cams changed a lot), and which engine.
The valve cover bolts are 89 inch-pounds, not foot pounds. Exact tightness is not critical. The shoulder on the bolts determines how much pressure is applied to the gaskets, not the torque on the bolts. They need to be tight enough not to vibrate loose, and that's it. You do need to remove then and install them in the correct order though, to prevent warping of the plastic cover.
valve_cover.gif


I can probably look up the other torque specs for the 1st gen V8 tonight.
 
I have gotten the ac compressor off but still connected to lines (just kinda dropped it out of my way), the PS pump off and the alternator off, but am stuck not able to get the compression fitting off the fan pump so I can get the bolt behind it... I can't seem to even get a wrench on the thing to even attempt to turn it!! Anyone have tips for getting something on it?? I certainly wish I was only attempting secondary tensioners but unfortunately when one of the tensioners crumbled it broke the driver side primary chain so I MUST get all the way in... I have made progress but so many of the bolts are crazy stuck and this fan pump really has me frustrated tonight... any tips are much appreciated

I have a 2000 LS 3.9 V8

EDIT - I re-read the thread from start to finish and am seeing that De-marko didnt take the hydraulic line off! Unfortunately I went after the bolt behind it and rounded it right off! I think I will try to get in there with a dremel next and see if I can get the head of it cut off.
 
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So I got inside the timing case, seeing the damage is a bit worrisome... Anyone have a crankshaft gear they want to sell me??
 
You might try grizzlyls, he has some posts on this thread, He was going to update his valve train and may have the gear you need. I have a cam locating tool set includes the crank locating tool. Used it on my 01 V8. Paid 75 dollars for it, will sell it for 50 plus postage. I'm in Tulsa, OK area so not too far from Hutch.
 
Also Auto Zone will loan a tool set that will remove and install the pulley for the fan pump. Makes installing it much easier. Made removing it much easier without the pulley in the way.
 
I'm just curious with everyone seeing the problem with my engine what you guys think about the chance I will ever get her to start again... I feel like when the primary chain broke the springs on the valves sort of pushed the cams into a sort of safe position, but still very worried about the possibility of catastrophic failure in the head...
 
TrowaBarton said:
.... I feel like when the primary chain broke the springs on the valves sort of pushed the cams into a sort of safe position...
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That's not at all how it works! The cam didn't break, the chain did. If you suddenly removed the cam, then yes the springs would instantly close all the valves, but that's not what happened. Instead, the chain stopped turning the cam. Even if the spring force of the valves could turn a cam (it really can't, let alone quickly), then you'd still have the problem that some would be closed (safe), and some would be open (big problem). There's no position to turn the cam to that has all the valves closed.

You have damaged valves, and may even have damaged pistons. Get/rent a borescope and have a look into each cylinder.
 
FWIW, as I have had happen first hand, sometimes the piston damage is on the bottom and won't be easily noticed via borescope. In my case, granted it was an Olds 350 with aftermarket pistons, the top of the piston looked fine, but the oil ring land over the wrist pin snapped off. The oil ring retainer then wedged between the piston and cylinder causing extensive damage. Didn't realize anything was wrong for a while because it actually ran halfway decent.
Time to tear the sucker down for a rebuild. Or roll the dice.
 
oddball said:
FWIW, as I have had happen first hand, sometimes the piston damage is on the bottom and won't be easily noticed via borescope. In my case, granted it was an Olds 350 with aftermarket pistons, the top of the piston looked fine, but the oil ring land over the wrist pin snapped off. The oil ring retainer then wedged between the piston and cylinder causing extensive damage. Didn't realize anything was wrong for a while because it actually ran halfway decent.
Time to tear the sucker down for a rebuild. Or roll the dice.
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I have been leaning towards the roll the dice option, however after finding out that I am going to need to get a $150 crank gear, I'm starting to weight the cost of rolling the dice a bit heavier...
 
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